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  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star boredguy's Avatar
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    Always was 0 chance of a Trouba/Risto trade. Really good deal for Sabres though.

    Doesn't compare to Kuch at 4.76 though, only 3 seasons but that's insane.

    Interesting that all the big RFA's that were holding out are caving and the teams are winning.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    Anybody heading to the Centennial Classic at BMO Field in Toronto today? My brother and I are heading down. Won't compare to the Winter Classic at The Big House that we attended a few yrs ago, but should still be a good time.

  3. #63
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    You are luckyx2, have fun Gorms. Better leave your red and white shit at home lol

    Happy New Years
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    No going to watch from home then head down to the Petes OHL game.

    Still plenty of good tickets left for the Centennial Classic today. Yesterday's alumni game was not full either. Toronto sports has had so many big sporting events come through town this past year...Blue Jays playoffs (+ most regular season home game were sold out), Raps playoffs, World Cup of hockey, World Jr's, MLS Cup, Grey Cup and now the Centennial Classic. I think people are starting to pick and choose what they spend their $$ on. A lot of World Jr games didn't sell out either.

    Edit: I see the game is being delayed 30 mins because of sunlight. Start time is now 3:30.
    Last edited by two24four; 01-01-2017 at 11:44 AM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Must have sold some tickets today. Looks like a nice crowd. Good to see.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    Yeah, it was a solid crowd. Good people too. Had lots of good chats with fans from both teams, aside from the Leafs fan sitting beside me who thinks Mathews is the best player in the world and Freddy A is the best goalie in the world. Couldn't take him seriously after he said that.

    First 2 periods were pretty boring, crowd was pretty quiet, but that 3rd was awesome. Great battle by both teams in the 3rd.

    Overall atmosphere wasn't comparable to the game at The Big House but still a good time.

  7. #67
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Was the ice as bad as it looked on TV? I was beginning to think about how ugly a shootout would have been on that ice.


  8. #68
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Players all said it was the best outdoor ice they have skated on. The ones who played in the game at the Big House said it was better at BMO.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    The ice seemed pretty snowy but I was sitting pretty far away so didn't have the best view.

    I know beforehand the players were raving about how good the ice was but I imagine it was pretty hard and possibly a bit chippy, since it was right around 0 degrees (celsius) or colder for most of the game.

    I imagine they would have cleared the ice a bit had it gone to the shootout, but can't say for sure.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Nice to see Eric Staal having a good season with Minny. I think things just got stale for him in Carolina. I've watched him play since he was a 5'9 150 lbs 15 year old rookie with the Petes in the OHL. He came back for his 2nd OHL season at about 6'2 170 lbs and everyone was like ok he's true NHL prospect now. To this day I still have never seen the rink so full of scouts as it was when Oshawa and Peterborough played vs each other back then. Nathan Horton played for Oshawa, Eric Staal for Peterborough.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I get that picking the NHL's top 100 players of all time is very tough...but I would have had Hawerchuk and Thornton on my list. Others who I would've liked on the list were Iginla and Malkin. Might be biased with this one but Gilmour as well.

  12. #72
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    I can excuse Malkin being left off because he's missed so many games and hasn't had a very long career. As great as his career has been, clearly being the third best offensive player of the last 10-12 years behind Crosby/Ovy, he's not some heinous omission. If this was five years later he'd have enough mileage (Hopefully, health permitting) to make an easier case but at 700 games played, I guess I get it. Somewhat though, because his playoff performances have been awesome too. I'd have put him in, but like I said, I get it .

    Zetterberg and Weber didn't make the cut either. Stamkos too but he's been such a health issue. Backstrom as well could've made his case, maybe if the Caps had a cup to their name, oh well.

    Iginla is more glaring than Malkin. 600 goals and not in the NHL top 100? That's a little silly to me.

    Thornton I'm glad didn't make it. I know you've always been one of his biggest fans and I have nothing but respect but I don't feel he's a top 100 guy. I think he's as good as you can possibly be for an NHL career without being flat-out great and that list is pretty much packed with greatness. Even his PPG is only 8th most among active players and for a guy who's entire career resume sums up as "stats stuffer who never got it done when it mattered" you'd really expect him to be a bit more of an offensive standout. He's barely ahead of Getzlaf and Spezza. Really good players, but one has played a lot more relevant games in a shorter career and the other nobody would ever consider for a top-100 spot (Although I really like Spezza).

    In order the names I would've tried to include most are: Howerchuck, Iginla, Malkin, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Thornton. Only the first 2 offend me though.

    Howerchuck being left off is shocking to me. You can't find one guy to make room for a guy who reached 1299 pts in just 13 seasons. Don't care what anyone else was doing in the 80's, he still stands out.
    Last edited by Kyle; 01-28-2017 at 04:55 PM.

  13. #73
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Aren't we talking about the top 100 of all-time? If so, I have no issue with guys like Zetterberg, Thornton, Malkin, and Backstrom being left off. Somebody always misses the cut. I consider them great players in their own right, but not all-time greats when I think of the history of the league. We tend to focus on what we see and recent history always takes precedence, but the league has been around for a long time.


  14. #74
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    Heard that, Doc. Just felt like throwing out the rest of the "maybes" for this generation. Maybe add Weber?

    Like I said, only Iginla/Howerchuck blatantly offends my common sense.

    You're 100% right on recent history swaying people's opinions heavily, though.

  15. #75
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Hawerchuk, Iginla and St. Louis are the ones I'd most like to add that I can think of right now.

    EDIT: Actually, maybe not St. Louis. I may have rose-colored glasses on him.

    EDIT2: On return to the question, Joe Mullen and (despite not being in the HoF) Pierre Turgeon feel like they could be on the list too.
    Last edited by Hamsterkill; 01-28-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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  16. #76
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    I missed St Louis. I definitely would've had him in there or at least had to think hard about not putting him in.

  17. #77
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have had the three current Blackhawks on the list, not yet anyways. For current players I would have had Crosby, Ovie, Jagr, Thornton, Malkin and Iginla.

    I admit I'm biased when it comes to Thornton but man you cant deny what he's done. He's 8 assists away from being just the 13th player in NHL history with 1000 assists. He's also the reason Cheechoo scored 56 goals in 05-06. Thornton should have been the co winner of the Rocket that year. Without Thornton Cheechoo doesn't win that. Thornton is also 24th in points all time with a chance to move up even higher this season. He has a chance to be a 400-1000-1400-1200 player very soon. Although his goal scoring is getting lower and lower every season. He doesn't have a Cup but neither do a few others on the list.
    Last edited by two24four; 01-28-2017 at 10:10 PM.

  18. #78
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    I wouldn't have had the three current Blackhawks on the list, not yet anyways. For current players I would have had Crosby, Ovie, Jagr, Thornton, Malkin and Iginla.
    Keith would be tough for me to keep off, given the double Norris. I agree on Toews and Kane, though.
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  19. #79
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm just a tougher judge. I think of how many great players have come through the league. I think of how many NHL players are in the HHOF. The league has been around forever. When I think of the NHL Top 100, I think of the best of the best players ever. As I said before, we tend to overvalue players that are fresh in our minds. We can also overvalue players that we grew up with as kids, for that matter. Either way, I don't consider a lot of the players mentioned in this thread as the best of the best. Currently or in their era? Sure. All-time? No way. No matter what the list, there's always someone that would have been next (101).

    Has anyone seen a breakdown of how many were named at each position (F, D, and G)?


  20. #80
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    15 Goalies.
    64 Forwards
    21 D-men

  21. #81
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Thanks. I know it's not as simple as this, but I have no problem with someone like Keith being left off of a list of the top 21 D of all-time.


  22. #82
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Agreed. The NHL has a huge hardon for the current Blackhawks though.

  23. #83
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Truthfully, I think Keith has just as much claim to be there as Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer do. He's already done enough to be HoF-bound.

    And there is going to be a recency bias if you're not going to be talking about "in their era" great. The fact is, hockey players are probably way better in general now than they were in classical times.
    Last edited by Hamsterkill; 01-29-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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  24. #84
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    There's a recency bias regardless of whether we add a disclaimer. We have replay clips at our fingertips and get inundated with highlights constantly. I bet that there are a lot of kids out there that think that McDavid is already one of the best players ever because that's all they know.


  25. #85
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    It's true. My oldest thinks Auston Matthews is the best ever. He was waiting to see Matthews the other night in the top 100 even after I told him he wont be on the list.

  26. #86
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    In fairness guys, as Hamster pointed out, people simply get more athletic over time. Technology and medical science moves forward, not back. It's silly to deny that a ton of our classic greats wouldn't have impacted today's NHL. If you want to call that conjecture, I can't argue, but the eye test doesn't lie and I think people are insane to deny that NHLers today are clearly far better than before. A major reason classic greats were able to be so great was lack of competition.

    Duncan Keith would flat-out wipe the floor with at least half the D-men in NHL history who have scored 80 pts in a season before. Whether people want to hear it or not, if he played in wide open rinks in the 80's vs goalies with twigs over their legs that always stayed standing up, Keith would be an easy 80-100 pt guy in addition to a dominant defensive presence.

    Keith is every bit as good/better than guys like Rob Blake and Larry Murphy.
    Last edited by Kyle; 01-29-2017 at 08:13 PM.

  27. #87
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    BTW Doc, while I agree with you that recency bias plays a part, the more I think of it, old school bias exists as much as recency bias. People force themselves to remember past greats with such high regards and continually insist that they're among the best the sports ever seen when they usually aren't. The NFL is a major victim of this - outside of like 5 RBs and a good bit of defensive players who were probably ahead of the curve on PED abuse, almost everyone who played before 1980 was fucking garbage. The Quarterbacks especially were horse shit with or without the new rules today. Embarrassing mechanics, lame duck wobbly throws, no ability to read defenses. Unitas, Bradshaw, these guys are so vastly inferior to current QBs and get places on all time lists ahead of Aaron Rodgers because people can't let it go.

    NHL is no different. We have so many stat-stuffers that cropped up in the 70's/80's, so many defenders who never once earned a reputation for actually defending their zone and simply aren't as good as guys like Keith and Weber. But they get remembered so fondly that it might be impossible to ever push them down the list. The NHL is a really major victim of old school bias because the league was built in a way that encouraged such superior stats in the 70's/80's. Guys today are clearly better but can't build a comparable resume.

    I also think Karlsson is at max 2 seasons away from this list. A 1980's like PPG pace from a 25m+ defender over 500-600 games in the same era where Norris winners average 50 pts? More than enough.
    Last edited by Kyle; 01-29-2017 at 08:12 PM.

  28. #88
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    The only thing Karlsson's missing is any kind of championship that the HoF and "all-time great" lists seem to need. He, too, has the double Norris to his name, and probably should have had one more. I still would like to see Joe Mullen there first, though
    Last edited by Hamsterkill; 01-29-2017 at 11:02 PM.
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  29. #89
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    The Wings might finish last in their conference with over 80 pts this year.

  30. #90
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    This isn't the year to have a top pick either. It's a weak draft. No McDavid, Matthews, Laine, Echiel, Stamkos, Tavares etc...in this draft. As Bob McKenzie said the top rated player for this draft is Nolan Patrick who was born 4 days past the cut off for last years draft. He most likely wouldn't have been drafted in the last draft till about 5th overall. He's a tier below those types of players. Nico Hischier is also giving him a run for 1st overall. If you want goals Owen Tippett is who you want this year, he should go around 5th or 6th overall.

    Could see more movement of 1st round picks before the draft because of it being weaker.
    Last edited by two24four; 02-01-2017 at 11:12 AM.

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