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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    I read something today that said if Crosby played for the Caps and Ovechkin for the Pens that the Caps would most likely be the team with two Cups going for their third. Hard to disagree.

    Rest of the playoffs are kind of setup blah for me. Nashville is a fun team to watch. Even more so when they are at home. I'd like to see Peterborough boy Mike Fisher take the Stanley Cup from Gary. Just don't want Ottawa to win.
    Definitely agree with that. To me, you'd have to be crazy to deny that. If you ignore Crosby/Ovy, Washington has a better roster almost every year than the Pens. Crosby would've easily earned a pair of cups with them.

    I think Ottawa will have an incredibly tough time vs Pittsburgh. Fat chance to me, but maybe they can jump to an early series lead if the Pens are tired. Barring that, Pens coast to a win for me.

  2. #272
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    A big problem is that the owner loves him and he's eating up a ton of cap space. Demoting him to the 3rd line is a good start, but I don't see them being able to get over the hump with him there.


  3. #273
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Caps have some good young players sure, but they have been playoff chokers forever. Before OV and now with OV. He's a big part of it but OV isn't the only reason. Pretty sure they haven't made it past round 2 since 1998. They've had some good teams in that time. They have to change something or it's going to keep happening. They also don't have a draft pick this year till round 4. That doesn't help restock for the next few years. I could see them making some big trades.
    Last edited by two24four; 05-11-2017 at 04:06 PM.

  4. #274
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    OV reminds me of Kessel quite a bit. Although Kessel through his carreer has faced a ton more adversity making him actually a better player and person for it. Seems like OV has always been the star and never had to fight for anything.

    Dallas plucks the best FA goalie with a decent contract and a 4th round pick. Now they have two goalies to get rid of.

    Teams in the market for tenders imo : WIN, CAL, BUF, PHI, Vegas

    Maybe these (even though the DAL goalies arent really much of an upgrade but you could say that about them all): ARI, VAN, FLA, COL, DET, NYI, OTT,
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  5. #275
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    OV reminds me of Kessel quite a bit. Although Kessel through his carreer has faced a ton more adversity making him actually a better player and person for it. Seems like OV has always been the star and never had to fight for anything.
    Ovechkin is a pretty great person already (aside from maybe looking at Russia through rather rosy glasses, but that's patriotism for you). DC fans love his personality, approachability, and general kindness. I don't know that it's a matter of fighting for things, really. AO already has a really strong will to succeed -- hence his bang, crash playing style of his first several years. It's just that he plays the game in its simplest form -- "Get puck close to opposing goal. Shoot puck. Hard." He's really good at that game, which is how he's accumulated so much regular season success and still has a lot of regular season success. But a simple game is also simple to disrupt come playoff time.

    Caps coaches have tried to broaden his game multiple times. Oates, Hunter, and even Boudreau asked AO for more and he did try. The problem was that in trying to change AO's game, his production always suffered heavily.

    Dallas plucks the best FA goalie with a decent contract and a 4th round pick. Now they have two goalies to get rid of.

    Teams in the market for tenders imo : WIN, CAL, BUF, PHI, Vegas

    Maybe these (even though the DAL goalies arent really much of an upgrade but you could say that about them all): ARI, VAN, FLA, COL, DET, NYI, OTT,
    I think Niemi and Lehtonen are destined for backup duties after this season unless they're the best left unprotected for Vegas. I don't think any team really sees them as a significant upgrade over what they have -- unless Dallas is going to keep salary in the deal.
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  6. #276
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    I guess my point is that becoming a better person you have to go through tough times (Phil has dealt with cancer, the T.O media and even being the last guy picked) That imo builds a stronger character. Like really, what the fk could you do to bother Phil (besides leave him off the USA team lol)? I'm sure they are both great guys.

    Ive read the Stars will be willing to send a draft pick to Vegas in exchange for a dump. The other could very well be bought out. I think this deal makes Lou look like Lou.
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  7. #277
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    To the naked eye, it appears that Bobby Ryan has scored more in the playoffs than he did all season long.


  8. #278
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    This was my big fear with the Subban trade. I said a trade like Subban for Weber ends up coming down to dumb luck in regards to who ends up 'winning' the trade. Now Nashville made the finals and Montreal looks like morons for getting rid of Subban. I honestly don't think Subban for Weber has anything to do with why Nashville is in the finals, but the optics are what they are. It looks even worse for Montreal because Subban is 3 years younger. Not only did they get rid of the guy still in his prime for the guy nearing the end of his, but the younger guy also found more immediate success, which is usually the reason you go for older talent, for immediate success.

    It was such a safe trade for Nashville because if the opposite happened, Montreal+Weber advancing to the finals, it wouldn't be a huge deal. They got a young stud in his prime and have plenty of years to make a run. Montreals different, they narrowed their window right away by trading a 28 year old superstar for a 31 year old and put pressure on themselves to win soon-ish with Weber.

    Anyway, good for Nashville, great story. Its about dang time.

  9. #279
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    I have to say, watching Karlsson felt an awful lot like watching Lidstrom in this postseason.
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  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsterkill View Post
    I have to say, watching Karlsson felt an awful lot like watching Lidstrom in this postseason.
    He's certainly on that level, I won't insult him by denying that. Truly an heir apparent and the only generational D-man in the NHL right now.

    Kessel looked really solid today too. Rest and all that silly BS aside, the Pens should be overwhelming favorites, especially if they can get a bit healthier as the finals progress.

    Side note, I wonder just how little respect Doc and Eddie have for McGuire. A few buds and I were joking about how the most dangerous drinking game ever would be to take a shot every time Pierre gets ignored by his colleagues on air. Its totally distracting to the broadcast. Then he stops even trying to make original comments and just piggy backs off of things Eddie says, mindlessly agreeing with every word and adding to his points, and he still gets flat out ignored. There's times he does all but directly ask them questions, like totally open-ended comments meant to evoke a response, and its just routinely crickets before Doc gets back to the playcall. It caught my attention at least a handful of times tonight.

    Accept the damn guy or get rid of him, its just awkward. Reminds me of the awful cold shoulder treatment the Red Wings broadcast team gave Larry Murphy, but that lasted hardly weeks before he was fired. This McGuire dynamic just goes on and on.
    Last edited by Kyle; 05-26-2017 at 02:18 AM.

  11. #281
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    I was rooting really hard for Ottawa, but I bet the league was doing the opposite. Ottawa/Nashville would have been a ratings shit show. I'll be pulling hard for Nashville, but I'd like their chances a lot more if Johansen was playing.


  12. #282
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    Just glad the Sens are out.

    It would be cool to see the Preds win for a few reasons. I'm a big Fisher fan. Subban winning right after he was traded from the Habs would be great. I heard they are already going crazy in Montreal. Gord Miller said on Leafs lunch yesterday that he was on radio in Montreal the other day.... he said that's all they are talking about. Preds party if they win will be unreal with all the A list country stars joining them I would think.
    Last edited by two24four; 05-26-2017 at 10:17 AM.

  13. #283
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    At least they wisely avoided any nights of the NBA finals. All 7 games scheduled on nights Cleveland/Golden State don't play.

    I think the ratings will still be rather miserable but we'll see. Pittsburgh certainly represents far better potential for ratings than Ottawa, but still on the lower-mid end of the spectrum. And Nashville is about as low as it gets. And then the NBA having its historic third consecutive finals matchup between the same two teams. It should almost surely add up to horrible ratings and a lack of reporting on these finals.

  14. #284
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    I'm a little surprised to see Paul Maclean depart Anaheim. I wonder if he and Carlyle just didn't get along anymore. I can't imagine he'll be out of a job long, whether as a head coach or an assistant.
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  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsterkill View Post
    I'm a little surprised to see Paul Maclean depart Anaheim. I wonder if he and Carlyle just didn't get along anymore. I can't imagine he'll be out of a job long, whether as a head coach or an assistant.
    Was he fired or did he just go himself?

  16. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by WIS View Post
    Was he fired or did he just go himself?
    It was "mutual".
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  17. #287
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    Wow i cant believe the Crosby hate. GO PENS GO
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  18. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    Wow i cant believe the Crosby hate. GO PENS GO
    Agreed.

  19. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsterkill View Post
    It was "mutual".
    sure...

  20. #290
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Crosby is now a top 5 NHL player of all-time IMO. Just the last 12 months he has 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Conn Smythe's, 1 World Cup, 1 World Cup MVP also the Rocket this season to go along with everything else he's won/done.
    Last edited by two24four; 06-12-2017 at 12:01 PM.

  21. #291
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    I don't get the Crosby hate being mentioned in this thread. Where?


  22. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    I don't get the Crosby hate being mentioned in this thread. Where?
    I'm quite positive he meant in general, in the NHL world.

    To which, my response is still the same as yours. What hate?

    Crosby got called humorless and dry for maybe blowing a moment to show some personality in reply to Subban making up the bad breath insult. That wasn't hate, more just "well, that guy sure doesn't give fun interviews."

    Outside of that, not a single negative word has been said by virtually anybody on TV about Crosby until game 5 when he smashed Subbans head into the ice 5 times. And even then a lot of attention was paid to what Subban did to provoke him. That was the only real hate Crosby received and it was 100% justified. Are you saying you don't understand why people thought it was uncool to bounce Subbans head off the ice 5 times?

    That shit also blew over in less than a day. Now everyone in the world is talking about if Crosby is a top 20, or a top 10 player all time. What hate? The guy is being worshiped.
    Last edited by Kyle; 06-12-2017 at 06:27 PM.

  23. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    Crosby is now a top 5 NHL player of all-time IMO. Just the last 12 months he has 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Conn Smythe's, 1 World Cup, 1 World Cup MVP also the Rocket this season to go along with everything else he's won/done.
    Top 5 all time is such a gross exaggeration at this age. He needs more success. You're just mindlessly tossing him ahead of Jagr, Howe, and others like that. Come on man.

    He's earned the right to be argued top 10, he should indisputably be ranked on anyone's top 20, but chill on top 5. Are you even considering non forwards when you type that? Because really dude? Ahead of Hasek, Lidstrom, Borque? Please don't insult yourself by digging in and telling me you actually think that, you know way too much about hockey to call Crosby better than a guy like Lidstrom already.

    Not top 5, you're grossly overreacting to the moment of victory. The top 3 are unquestionable. The last two spots are so hotly contested and its really insulting to the players with 15-20 year careers who earned the right to be considered as the 4th/5th best. Howe, Jagr, Hasek, Brodeur, Sawchuck, Roy, Richard, Lidstrom, Borque, Esposito, Messier, Harvey, Hull, so many others. You're really going overboard by ranking Crosby ahead of them already. He's much more in the top 20 range. I was too kind to say arguably top 10 earlier. Its not arguable. He isn't top 10.

    Its ridiculous that I'm even having to mention those names who are far ahead of Crosby for now. Crosby hasn't even surpassed Yzerman and Sakic yet. He's right there in the mix with them in that 15-20 range.
    Last edited by Kyle; 06-12-2017 at 06:38 PM.

  24. #294
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    Personally, I don't like ranking anyone all-time until their career is over, or at least until it's late enough in their career and they've clearly leapfrogged other players. He's had his moments of acting like a bitch, but his talent is unquestioned. He's also just shy of 30, so he has a bunch of productive seasons left. Assuming health, I have no doubt that he will continue to climb the ladder.

    Making these lists is entirely subjective, though. We tend to overvalue what we've seen most recently and we also need to consider position, era, etc. I'm dumb enough to enter the discussion once he finally retires, but I'm smart enough to know that there's really no right answer.


  25. #295
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    I'm talking just in general over the years. It just seems to be overly apparent during this cup run. I'm sure its because Habs fans far and wide have a love for Subban. When those guys speak we all listen

    Congrats to the Pens on the B2B. Murray with two rings and how many pro games? Kessel goes from T.O to win two cups? Malkin proving he isnt made of glass? Crosby with an unprecedented year of success? NO Letang? Fleury pulling them through the Caps series? Well done
    Last edited by Dubz; 06-13-2017 at 11:09 AM.
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  26. #296
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    The only thing I'll say about Crosby right now -- if his career ended today, he'd be a first ballot Hall of Famer.
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  27. #297
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I'm not getting into this, we'll have to agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong answer, everyone will have a different list. But IMO he's top 5. I'm also not a Crosby lover or hater. Just how I feel. He's not even 30 yet and look what's he's done with sometime missed.

    I'm not the only one thinking it though...

    Patrick O'Sullivan posted this on twitter.

    My Top 5 NHL players all time1. 992. Orr3. 664. Crosby 5. Lidstrom


    For me it's....

    99
    4
    66
    9 (Howe)
    87
    Last edited by two24four; 06-13-2017 at 01:22 PM.

  28. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsterkill View Post
    The only thing I'll say about Crosby right now -- if his career ended today, he'd be a first ballot Hall of Famer.
    Him and about 30 others. Putting him in the top 5 now is way overboard for sure. Total prisoner of the moment reaction and you just can't really back that argument up in any way except by over-reacting to recent events. You'll (not you obviously) tell a romantic story about how hard it is to win 3 cups in this era and how much he's dominated big games and how impressive his stats are and the simple fact is you'd be blissfully ignoring the fact that dozens of others can claim the same, over much more than 800 games. Ranking Crosby, today, ahead of Messier or Lidstrom? It's just laughable. He will keep climbing his way up that list. He isn't there yet.
    Last edited by Kyle; 06-14-2017 at 02:49 AM.

  29. #299
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    Who's better than Crosby that isn't a legend or retired?
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  30. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    Who's better than Crosby that isn't a legend or retired?
    I'm not following you, I think. 24 is ranking him all time. Meaning, including every retired legend in league history, he's putting Crosby at 5th. Clearly, there's been at least 5 legends in hockey history. I can think of a dozen or more, all of which have won at least the same 3 cups as Crosby, many who won much more. I'll just paste a list I made earlier: Howe, Jagr, Hasek, Brodeur, Sawchuck, Roy, Richard, Lidstrom, Borque, Esposito, Messier, Harvey, Hull, so many others. Not all 3+ cup winners, but undisputed legends. I didn't even include a fraction of the Montreal/Islanders stars from those dynasties either. So as I said, many others.

    Of course if you exclude retired legends Crosby is the best. I'm not sure I'm understanding your point correctly. We can't just exclude retired legends when ranking the best all time. Then you couldn't call that an all time list.

    Even in the very modern era, ignoring everything before the 90's scoring slump, you can't rank him ahead of Jagr, Lidstrom, or Hasek yet. If you're being fair you wouldn't rank him ahead of Brodeur either. He's literally only the best of the post-Lidstrom era that isn't even 10 years old yet. There's still even a possibility a guy like Toews or Kane could emerge as superior than Crosby. If Chicago wins 3 more cups and Pittsburgh wins no more, its not even a debate, Toews and Kane both get ranked ahead of Crosby. Even Malkin could have a stronger next 10 years and earn a spot ahead. That's why you don't make these claims at 800 games when a guy is 30.

    How much happened to change the legacies of guys like Yzerman and Sakic after they turned 30? Its just too soon.

    I'm not getting into this, we'll have to agree to disagree.
    Just want to clarify that I'm all good with this. I'm not trying to push you into defending your point, you don't want to nor do you have to, I'm just embracing the subject you opened up here.
    Last edited by Kyle; 06-14-2017 at 04:47 PM.

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