Random NFL chatter

[Kyle]

PS - Lets not prioritize this, but at least acknowledge this: They have a brand they're building in Minnesota. They have a new arena. And their only recognizable face since Favre's retirement, AP, is at most a few years from retiring as well, and clearly his production is about to fall off a cliff sometime soon. It's important for the Vikings to establish a relevant and entertaining product beyond AP to keep the new arena filled going forward. Bradford saves what would've clearly been, at best, an incredibly boring 7-8 win season, with 15 pass attempts and 35 rushes per game. If they decide to stay behind Bridgewater going forward, Bradford will have plenty of trade value again if he has a good season. They can easily recoup a 2nd/3rd rounder and help cut the loss, or if Bradford is truly successful, maybe even sucker someone else out of a 1st.

Either way, there is endless justification for losing a 1st rounder, from the football side of things, to the business side of things.

[Doctego]

I understand why they did it. I just think that their belief as to how close they are to a title is a little higher than my belief.

[Kyle]

Sure, but they were one easy field goal away from beating a powerhouse Seattle team last year. Their chances are as good as anyone outside the obvious 3-5 picks.

[FlyGuy78]

Kyle please step away from the drugs!! This is a horrible deal for the Vikings who paid a 1 and 4 for a one year (two year at best) rental of a QB who hasn't proven he can stay healthy for a full season. They could have waited until final cuts and got just as good of a QB as Bradford.

Bridgewater is leaps and bounds better than Bradford and though his numbers aren't through the roof they don't have to be on this run first-solid defense of a team. The best number Bridgewater has is his high completion percentage which is an underrated stat. Bradford will be lucky to last half the season and the Vikings will have wasted not a low 1st rounder like you said but probably a mid to high 1st rounder when they blow this season.

Trade Grades
Philly A+
Vikes D-

[Kyle]

Typically outrageous response from you Fly. First, this Vikings team would win 7 games with no QB. So there is no high first rounder. Second, a high completion percentage means nothing when you NEVER air it downfield. '

Calling Bridgewater leaps and bounds better than Bradford is a bit embarrassing for you, Fly. Bradford was clearly better than Bridgewater last year, indisputably.

What is a 1st rounder in the NFL? You're acting like 15th-30th picks are always slam dunks. They aren't. This trade, which barring bad health practically guarantees the Vikes a playoff spot, is well worth a 1st rounder.

Waited til final cuts to sign someone just as good? Are you actually dumb enough to believe that? You're wrong, embarrassingly wrong, and as you typed that i think you realized you were wrong. Teams don't cut top-20 QBs on final cuts day. That's what Bradford is. Maybe you're too much of a biased Philly fan to acknowledge that, but he was a GOOD QB for you last year - get over it!

As usual you take things at face value and fail to see the bigger picture. This season could not turn into a waste for the Vikings. And even if Bradford does go down by week 8, the fanbase will forgive the team for trying to salvage a disastrous situation. If they did nothing and simpl rotted away at 6-8 wins, then they would've heard it from their fans. New arena, new regime to look forward to after AP is gone, you HAVE to keep the team relevant this year.

Argument grades
Flyguy F

[Kyle]

PS - It's amazing that you're conveniently leaving out the part where Bridgewater's NFL career is clearly at great risk now. If he loses two years, what shape does he come back in? Get real. You might be watching Bradford starting games for the Vikings for years and years to come.

[Doctego]

I get what you're saying, Kyle. I think that you're undervaluing draft picks, though. Especially a 1st rounder. We've spoken about how teams pass 1st rounders around the NHL like they're candy. The NFL is much different. Draft picks are golden, especially 1st round picks. As good as you make Bradford sound, the circumstances in Philly had changed where he went from being their starter to being a player that they couldn't get out of town fast enough. That might be shortsighted on their part, but I don't doubt that they couldn't wait to get rid of him. I don't fault Minnesota for doing something to try to salvage their season. I just think that they drastically overpaid. They could've waited a few days, to see who would've become available on cut day, or they could've been more firm in what they would've paid in picks. I believe that Philly already paid him a big bonus, so there was no financial rush to get this done then rather than waiting a few days. I could see there being a rush getting him into camp and learning the system, though. That's big, but not drastic overpay big, in my eyes. That's why I think that they panicked, both in what they paid and when they paid it.

I also don't think that Seattle is still a powerhouse, but that's another argument and one for another day.

[Kyle]

Being patient doesn't always work in the NFL. You worry about this year and maybe the next if you're fortunate. Jobs don't last long enough to be patient. I'm sure John Elway thought he was being patient and responsible with Osweiler's negotiation, and now he's crying himself to sleep every night because Sanchez couldn't earn the starting job. After trying and failing to acquire Bradford, mind you. If Denver had paid this price, it would've been a brilliant move by a SB contender who just gave themselves the piece they needed. But it seems the issue is whether we think the Vikings are similar in any way to that team. To me, I think they are in a similarly competitive spot (obviously not quite as competitive as Denver) where a good QB will allow them to make a strong push. If you agree with that, you can't think they gave up too much. But you clearly already disagreed with that, which is fair enough. If you don't think the Vikings were contending, then this trade does nothing but slow them down.

And I'd love to have that Seattle argument sometime. Because I strongly agree with Vegas that they're the easy 3rd favorite after NE/GB, barely edging out the Steelers/Panthers with the Cardinals in 6th. I agree with that fully. In any way they've regressed as a defense, their offense has moved forward. Wilson is a top-5 QB now, a megastar, better than Cam Newton easily in my book and the best QB in the NFL for half the season last year. 25 touchdowns in 7 games to end the season? I'll ride that wave.

[Doctego]

I'm talking about being patient for a matter of days. You never know, but I highly doubt that someone would've swooped in and stolen Bradford, especially at that price. I also don't think that Elway is losing any sleep based upon what Houston paid Osweiler. Lynch will be starting for them before you know it and Osweiler will be a distant memory. At least that's the way that I see it.

It's too early for me to know what any team really is at this point, so I'll hold off on whether Seattle is top 3 in the NFL or not. We really don't know shit until after week 4. That said, I was referencing last year, as were you. I don't see them as being close to the powerhouse that they were. Years of defections from players wanting to get paid off of team success will do that to any team. They've lost too much depth and their offensive line is a mess, regardless of the magic that Cable can work. If they end up being a top 3 team in the league, that will have as much to do with league parity than anything else to me.

[Kyle]

The Broncos were only offering a touch less than Houston did. They were willing to pay above 17 if I recall, although probably not as much in guarantees. The Broncos wanted Osweiler badly.

Lynch is a long way off, so long the defense might not still be elite by then. Thats my opinion. He's 2+ years away from being a competent starter, or even a below average one.

Whether Seattle was close to their old selves is a separate discussion to whether they were a powerhouse team. Of course they weren't as good as the clear best team in the NFL for a 2-year stretch that should've won back to back SBs. But what's a powerhouse team? To me, top 5. They were certainly a top 5 team going into the playoffs last year. Don't let the 10-6 nonsense fool you. They were +146, 4th best in the NFL. They were a great team and arguably the next favorite after the Patriots, Cardinals, and Panthers. The Bengals and Broncos came next but not before Seattle in my book. Seattle was ridiculously good the last 7 weeks of the season (+136, an average of 20 pts more than their opponents per game) and the Vikings came within a field goal of ending that run.

[Kyle]

Kyle please step away from the drugs!! This is a horrible deal for the Vikings who paid a 1 and 4 for a one year (two year at best) rental of a QB who hasn't proven he can stay healthy for a full season. They could have waited until final cuts and got just as good of a QB as Bradford.

Bridgewater is leaps and bounds better than Bradford and though his numbers aren't through the roof they don't have to be on this run first-solid defense of a team. The best number Bridgewater has is his high completion percentage which is an underrated stat. Bradford will be lucky to last half the season and the Vikings will have wasted not a low 1st rounder like you said but probably a mid to high 1st rounder when they blow this season.

Trade Grades
Philly A+
Vikes D-

How's that D- working out for you?

[FlyGuy78]

Kyle you do know I'm a Raiders fan right??! I hate the Eagles! Haha And at the end of the day the trade didn't matter since it's their defense playing lights out that has them at 5-0. I still think it was a bad trade since they paid too much for Bradford. You could be the QB of that team and they would still be 5-0.

[Kyle]

Sill talk man! Of course the Defense is carrying the team, but Bradford has still been great with literally -nothing- to work with on offense. Who's his star playmaker? Diggs? Rudolph? lol

The guy hasn't thrown an interception yet, completing 70% of his passes on a 109 rating. I couldn't do that Fly!

Congrats on your Raiders. Very strong team.

[Kyle]

Flugate - The Pats have upped their game to biological warfare.

[Kyle]

This is the best championship Sunday slate I can ever remember. The only drawback is that Gronk and Jordy are injured (although Jordy is supposedly gonna hobble through it). Outside of that its just the perfect four teams to watch from an excitement perspective.

[Doctego]

^On paper. Man, those games sucked. Pretty much the entire playoffs so far, save for the GB/Dallas game.

[Kyle]

You aren't kidding. That was lame.

[Kyle]

You have to feel for the Falcons. They couldn't have possibly done more to blow their lead. And then, their only good drive after they reached 28 ends in the most disastrous sequence I can ever remember in the NFL playoffs, by themselves and the refs.

Matt Ryan completes a mindblowing throw to Julio Jones who makes a ridiculous catch on the sidelines for a huge 30+ yard chunk. Falcons are in easy fg range, 36-38 yards or so. Makes it 11 points with probably too little time left for Brady - the Pats would've had to onside kick after a 2 pt conversion and reach FG range to tie it.

Then, the Falcons season decided to explode. Falcons run the ball. 2 yard loss. Its all good. 2nd down. Falcons try to throw the ball. 12 yard sack by Matt Ryan.

Wait, what? 12 yard sack in a situation where both Ryan and Shanahan need to be perfectly aware that you CAN'T lost a single yard? The play had to be 3-steps and out, then you run on 3rd down. You don't take risks when you're already in range to seal the game. Ryan had to have a quick option to throw it away and avoid intentional grounding. Instead, he had to eat the sack, and to make it worse he panicked and added at least 5 years to the total. They didn't even call a rollout for a relatively mobile QB that would've allowed him to throw it away without the grounding call. I just don't see it.

Okay, 50 yard field goal. Matt Bryant has had an awesome year, trust that man. Maybe get him back 3-4 yards on third down. Instead, they get about 10-15 yards and made up all of Matt Ryans sack yardage.

Unfortunately, the Falcons elite O line commit one of the most obvious holding calls you'll ever see in the NFL. But, this is where the refs decided to make their mark. Somehow, they call the holding but miss the insanely blatant facemask call that happened to Sanu on the same play. Should've been offsetting penalties and a replay of 3rd and 23, from a 50 yard kick position, with a chance for a run or short throw to make the field goal easier. Instead, the holding forces a 3rd and 33, from 60 yards out, and the situation turned into an obvious punt.

The Falcons essentially rolled over and died following that punt. I think anyone who wanted Brady/the Pats to win felt like it was inevitable after that punt.

[Doctego]

As great as Brady was down the stretch, to come back like that, you need a lot of help from the other team. Atlanta certainly did their part. If they played it by the book, there's no way that New England wins. There just wasn't enough time. How you can average almost 6 yards per rush and then somewhat abandon the run when you go up big is something that I don't comprehend. The Seattle connection has made some of the most boneheaded play calls in Super Bowl history.

It's also interesting that the only team to keep Brady and Belichick as the no doubt GOAT at their positions is the Giants. If they're both 7-0, there's no debate. Now, it's certainly debatable. It's not really a debate that I'd care to have, but it's up for discussion.

[Kyle]

Pretty exciting last 48 hours.

Marshall to the Giants is a deal, not a big deal, but a deal. It would be a big deal if they needed WRs. They certainly don't and Marshall is basically one less O-line FA they can pursue, or even the 6m it'll probably take to rent AP. I guess you can't say no to BM for 6 mill but they put themselves in cap hell last offseason, so 6m actually matters. The Giants had two stud WR and nothing else, now they have 3 stud WR and still nothing else. How much does that really matter to them? We'll see. I'm glad he'll be in the playoffs (probably) but I really hope they can finally get a few draft picks right on the O-line because they're desperate for it. And Darkwa can't be their starting RB.

The Eagles are massively improved. Torry Smith has been a disappointment his whole career but never really had a chance in a legit offense. The Eagles aren't legit yet but have all the potential to be. Wentz can get way better and had a first year about as good as Winston. So, with Matthews and Smith as the #2 and #3 targets, I call that depth. Alshon Jeffrey as their new #1 I'm a huge fan of. This team had the worst WR core in the NFL last year, now they have a top 7-10 group with potential to be top 5 if Jeffrey reclaims his top-10 status and Matthews progresses with less defensive attention. Jeffreys issues have been suspensions and injuries the last two years, before that he averaged roughly 90/1300/9 per season in only his 2nd and 3rd years. His last two years were weak but only due to missed playtime, he still averaged the same 79 yards per game as his monster 2013-2014 seasons. Jeffrey can be that guy, he's barely 27.

The Bucs made potentially the deal of the year if it works out and propels them forward into the playoffs. D-Jax is exactly what they needed, Evans runs way too many deep routes for a guy his size and now he can use his energy a little more wisely. Winston has a cannon arm, could be huge if Jackson stays healthy.

[Kyle]

The Romo hunt is rather thrilling. Typical Jerry Jones bullshit promising a release and then backtracking. Now its only a trade to Houston or Denver, although apparently its what Romo wanted. I don't see how that makes sense. That would mean Romo "wants" Dallas to get draft picks or assets knowing he won't be on the team to benefit from them, as opposed to just releasing him and letting him chose where to play. He can't love Jerry Jones that much. Trading would preserve his contract as well, wouldn't it? But we all know he's not playing anywhere without a significant restructure and pay cut. So I don't see why Romo wanted this when he was just promised the freedom of a clean release. Can anyone explain to me?

[Doctego]

I'd expect that it has to do with the fact that Dallas has all of the leverage here. It would hurt their cap situation, but they could theoretically just keep him and sit him on the bench. Dallas is doing him a favor by letting him go to another team. Jones and Romo have a great relationship by all accounts. They signed him as an undrafted FA and he has parlayed that into a very solid career. Maybe Dallas getting a pick is somewhat of a parting gift. He will definitely be restructuring his deal with the new team. I'm also not sure that Romo wants to be traded. I think that he just wants to go to a contender and these 2 teams are the clear choices. How he ends up there (trade or FA signing) isn't the important part.

EDIT: There's still a good chance that they end up releasing him if Houston and Denver don't cave to making a trade. The trade options for Dallas are clearly limited.

[two24four]

Martellus Bennett signed with the Packers. Nice signing by them.

[Kyle]

Interesting take, Doc. Can't disagree.

Bennet to the Packers will be fun. I'm not sure he can stay healthy enough to make a major impact. But when he's healthy, he's definitely a top 5 guy at the position. Hopefully the 3 fragile wideouts can stay healthy so Bennet won't have to be leaned on as heavy as New England had to for a while. He's a guy they'd be wise to preserve until their playoff run.

He's definitely better than Cook, if a bit less athletic.

[two24four]

Wrong thread.