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  1. #2041
    .. All-Star WIS's Avatar
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    Somehow I like you guys. I think we'd get along. Carry on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    I don't try to breach PC lines but the industry does this often these days in heavily feminist projects. Mad Max, Bridesmaids, the feminist movies get praised out of proportion for their empowerment of female leads (or first-time female producers in specific contexts, etc.). I have no strong objection to it, Hollywood is still a grossly misogynistic culture and it reflects in job opportunities in salaries, so I don't mind that we prop up the rare projects with mostly female teams. But it does make objectivity difficult to expect from reviewers, especially with big blockbusters, where a women lead+producer team being in charge of a 150 million dollar budget could cause disastrous consequences going forward for women if it doesn't perform well. There's almost a sense of responsibility by the film world to make sure Wonder Woman was a sensational hit or else risk setting women back even further in the industry. It would've been a long, long time before another $150m+ got handed to another female producer+lead team if this didn't work out superbly well. Now, its likely going to be a very short time before we see it again.

    Additionally, nobody wants to be the critic accused of hating a movie because it featured the first producer+lead women pair or the first nearly all-women cast. Much like Bridesmaids, which has a shockingly high rotten tomatoes score of 95%, its simply better for ones critical career to just say "good movie" and move on. Save the hot takes for less controversial subjects.

    I really doubt the movie is that much better than Suicide Squad or Batman vs Superman. DC has shown their style by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Well, FWIW, I thought BvS was a lot better than most did and probably the same as SS, which I didn't like but didn't hate nearly as much as others. I would've given SS a 6.5 and BVS a 7.5 so to me I expect to think around an 8.0 of WW but we'll see. I certainly doubt I will grade it as highly as most of what I'm reading.

    The best newish movies I've watched recently are Logan and John Wick 2. John Wick 2 is standard cookie cutter action fare but the fight choreography and atmosphere set it apart. Its as good as generic action films get. Logan was something special, though. Truly a departure from any standard super hero conventions and a uniquely gritty movie that easily ranks as one of the 3 best in the X-men universe which has some really strong competition for those top 3 spots (X2, First Class, Days of Future Past).

    I also really enjoyed Skull Island, but have significant doubts regarding where Universal can take this Dark Universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyGuy78 View Post
    WW is easily an 8 for me. It's by far the best DC movie out there and is basically a Marvel version of the first Capt America movie which was fantastic. The only thing I didn't like in WW was Ares (the actor who played him needed to look more fearsome).

    If Justice League is as good (I expect it will be better) than I'll be happy. I've come to the realization that comic movies will mostly never be as great as we hope they will but that doesn't mean they can't still be considered very good movies.

  2. #2042
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Well, FWIW, I thought BvS was a lot better than most did and probably the same as SS, which I didn't like but didn't hate nearly as much as others. I would've given SS a 6.5 and BVS a 7.5 so to me I expect to think around an 8.0 of WW but we'll see. I certainly doubt I will grade it as highly as most of what I'm reading.
    Man, you are very kind to SS. And grading WW an 8 would be about what I've seen it being rated around. I'd put WW more in 6-7 range. SS is a solid 3-4 in my book -- and only that high thanks to pretty much just Viola Davis.
    I also really enjoyed Skull Island, but have significant doubts regarding where Universal can take this Dark Universe.
    Those don't match up. The Dark Universe is (theoretically) beginning with The Mummy. Kong is in the MonsterVerse (basically just King Kong and Godzilla) -- which is Warner Bros.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyGuy78 View Post
    WW is easily an 8 for me. It's by far the best DC movie out there and is basically a Marvel version of the first Capt America movie which was fantastic. The only thing I didn't like in WW was Ares (the actor who played him needed to look more fearsome).
    Okay, I'll put my criticisms of WW here. Basically, I thought it was fine, but not impressive. All the characters were flat save for Diana, herself. I didn't care about any of them. The villains barely even justified being called 'evil' given the WW1 context. I also still don't see what the point of the "team" was either. They seemed more useless than Sif and the Warriors Three in Thor or the Howling Commandos in Cap; and, as far as I know, they don't have any counterparts in the source material, which seems to make them completely unnecessary.

    Ultimately, I think the Supergirl TV series is more engaging and empowering superhero media for women than the Wonder Woman movie was.

    I did not think the first Cap was fantastic either, but I did like it a little better than WW. I think Carter and the Howling Commandos at least offered more interesting supporting characters, though I will admit my opinion could have been colored by the further development of Carter in her one-shot and TV show. Red Skull was pretty dull for a villain, but at least you couldn't argue he wasn't evil.

    If Justice League is as good (I expect it will be better) than I'll be happy. I've come to the realization that comic movies will mostly never be as great as we hope they will but that doesn't mean they can't still be considered very good movies.
    I've known this for a while, though gems like (Raimi's) Spiderman 2 and Guardians of the Galaxy really show what they can do to both tell a good story and be fun to watch. Again, I don't think Wonder Woman was bad, I just think it's not among the better examples of recent comic book movies the way it's been praised as -- at least not unless you're only considering post-Nolan DC movies.

    I'm holding out better hope for Captain Marvel.
    Last edited by Hamsterkill; 06-25-2017 at 10:09 PM.
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  3. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsterkill View Post
    Man, you are very kind to SS. And grading WW an 8 would be about what I've seen it being rated around. I'd put WW more in 6-7 range. SS is a solid 3-4 in my book -- and that's pretty much all Viola Davis.
    You seem to grade traditionally which I respect a lot. These days a 7/10 has been morphed into an "average" rating and a 5/10 is reserved for horrible products, when the reality should be 5/10 is average and anything above it is by definition above average. On your scale I can give SS a 5 max. Like I said, I don't consider it good, I consider it just an average, passable movie with enough of a budget to make it borderline enjoyable on the first watch through.


    Those don't match up. The Dark Universe is (theoretically) beginning with The Mummy. Kong is in the MonsterVerse (basically just King Kong and Godzilla) -- which is Warner Bros.
    Now this is just a mindfuck. The Dark Universe already seemed pretty scarce on great movies and relevant IPs, but now it just lost Godzilla and King Kong (in my head at least)? So the Dark Universe certainly seems useless (even before Mummy become a disastrous flop), and whats the point of a Godzilla/King Kong crossover? How silly. It honestly feels like studios desperately grasping at what they'll never achieve: Marvel's success and DCs potential. They simply can't turn The Mummy and Wolfman into Captain America and Ironman.

    Ultimately, I think the Supergirl TV series is more engaging and empowering superhero media for women than the Wonder Woman movie was.
    Powerful statement, especially considering initial reviews that suggested Supergirl was almost mocking women by being so feminine. But I have heard the show has significantly improved since its first batch of episodes.


    I did not think the first Cap was fantastic either, but I did like it a little better than WW. I think Carter and the Howling Commandos at least offered more interesting supporting characters, though I will admit my opinion could have been colored by the further development of Carter in her one-shot and TV show. Red Skull was pretty dull for a villain, but at least you couldn't argue he wasn't evil. MN
    I really didn't like CA1, I would give it the same score as Suicide Squad, honestly. Marvel and DC are on extremely similar trajectories in terms of movie quality leading up to their combined epic. Marvel's last 3 before Avengers were Ironman 2 (Terrible), Thor 1 (Decent), and CA1. They certainly had done nothing with any of those 3 movies to build on the critical and commercial sensation that was Ironman 1. They were sliding downward. Then Avengers 1 comes out, is widely considered the best superhero movie of all time (Still to this day by many), and they take off flying from there with a better Thor 2, Antman, Guardians, a better Ironman (Or story of a common man named Tony Stark, whatever you want to call IM3, it was still better than IM2), the astoundingly good Winter Soldier, and the rest is history.

    The single only difference between DC and Marvel at this point from a perimeter view is that DC hasn't had that one true success story comparable to Ironman 1 in this current shared universe. Man of Steel was their attempt at getting the ball rolling and it missed badly for many. Outside of that one side by side comparison, DC is holding its own to Marvel's first 4-5 movies, and they have the same opportunity to redefine themselves with The Justice League.

    Somehow I like you guys. I think we'd get along. Carry on.
    No doubt.
    Last edited by Kyle; 06-25-2017 at 10:23 PM.

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