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  1. #61
    Nitbag Hall of Famer FlyGuy78's Avatar
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    If not for Drew Bledsoe going down, you would never know the name Tom Brady!

  2. #62
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyGuy78 View Post
    If not for Drew Bledsoe going down, you would never know the name Tom Brady!
    Meh. I'm not so sure. I don't think that Belichick really liked Bledsoe in the least so he was waiting to replace him. He just wouldn't have played so soon. Warner's is amazing because he had Green go down and played great and then he was left for dead.


  3. #63
    not really All-Star ih8music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    In my eyes, Warner is a HOF QB. That said, has there ever been another QB that had his circumstances on his way to a HOF career?? I'm not even talking about bagging groceries and playing in the Arena League. I'm talking about 2 specific breaks that, if not for them, he might have had no career let alone a HOF career. If Trent Green never got hurt in the preseason and if Matt Leinart cared about football as much as he does about pussy, Warner might have been nothing more than an unknown backup.

    Apologies for the aside but this intrigues me. You could throw Unitas into the mix. Other than that, I got nothing.
    Closest I can think of would be Steve Young. He was a great backup to Montana, but certainly no one was talking HoF until he took over the reins (due to Montana's elbow injury that sidelined him 91-92). And even then, the 49ers struggled that first season with him running the show and Steve Bono took over for a few games (and played very well). IIRC, Young only got his starting spot back because Bono got hurt himself.

    Wasn't until the next season that Young really established himself as an elite, every down starting QB and eventually earned his spot in the HoF.

  4. #64
    Senior Member First Liner
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    http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=308922

    Good signing by the Cards. Baggs was a great DE for the Riders. He should do well for them.

    Very big loss for Saskatchewan though we'll miss Stevie.
    Last edited by Bubbles & Conkey; 02-09-2010 at 03:05 PM.

  5. #65
    2010 Dead Pool Champion All-Star Hockeyis#1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyGuy78 View Post
    If not for Drew Bledsoe going down, you would never know the name Tom Brady!
    or Tony Romo (certainly not a HOFer at this point, but still a solid starting QB)


  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockeyis#1 View Post
    or Tony Romo (certainly not a HOFer at this point, but still a solid starting QB)
    Yeah, though I will say that like Aaron Rodgers, he simply needs to only do what hes done the last two few years consistently over a full career to lock that seat. Unless a lot changes in terms of public perception of a good QB (While I think the standard is raised its not quite so high that we can say 4000 is anything short of fantastic), his chances are definitely very good.

    But who knows, maybe over this next decade of Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Romo, and Rodgers constantly throwing 4000+ yards and 25+ TDs every year, the standards might adjust themselves to avoid QBs flooding every class. Right now any QB who ends his career having thrown for those numbers consistently is a guarenteed sure-in but that may not be the case in 10-15 years.

    Its a very troubling situation if I'm in the HoF comittee. How do you deny any of these QBs if they keep pace through their careers when theres QBs in the HoF who could never sniff the production that all these guys are doing casually. The passing numbers across different eras are so drastically different that it comes down to this: Are QBs better or is the game more passing friendly? The latter is obviously true to an extent but I think the former is also very true, I think we currently have far and beyond the best cast of QBs in NFL history in this era (And moving forward) and I can name about 10 of them starting right now who truly deserve to be in the HoF based on their ability to throw the ball compared to QBs currently in the HoF. Again, the amount of 4000+ yard passers this year, was just staggering. Obviously leadership and whatnot is always to be considered but thats not something you can easily debate like raw numbers.

    Its going to definitely be interesting when these guys retire and start becomming eligible. Manning and Brady are obviously 1st ballat picks. But I can definitely see some of this stud class of QBs getting screwed by the fact that the others got their HoF chance before them. Something like"Sorry, you're the 10th QB this decade with 50,000+ yards and 300+ TDs, its just not impressive anymore."
    Last edited by Kyle; 02-10-2010 at 08:11 PM.

  7. #67
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Yeah, though I will say that like Aaron Rodgers, he simply needs to only do what hes done the last two few years consistently over a full career to lock that seat. Unless a lot changes in terms of public perception of a good QB (While I think the standard is raised its not quite so high that we can say 4000 is anything short of fantastic), his chances are definitely very good.

    But who knows, maybe over this next decade of Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Romo, and Rodgers constantly throwing 4000+ yards and 25+ TDs every year, the standards might adjust themselves to avoid QBs flooding every class. Right now any QB who ends his career having thrown for those numbers consistently is a guarenteed sure-in but that may not be the case in 10-15 years.

    Its a very troubling situation if I'm in the HoF comittee. How do you deny any of these QBs if they keep pace through their careers when theres QBs in the HoF who could never sniff the production that all these guys are doing casually. The passing numbers across different eras are so drastically different that it comes down to this: Are QBs better or is the game more passing friendly? The latter is obviously true to an extent but I think the former is also very true, I think we currently have far and beyond the best cast of QBs in NFL history in this era (And moving forward) and I can name about 10 of them starting right now who truly deserve to be in the HoF based on their ability to throw the ball compared to QBs currently in the HoF. Again, the amount of 4000+ yard passers this year, was just staggering. Obviously leadership and whatnot is always to be considered but thats not something you can easily debate like raw numbers.

    Its going to definitely be interesting when these guys retire and start becomming eligible. Manning and Brady are obviously 1st ballad picks. But I can definitely see some of this stud class of QBs getting screwed by the fact that the others got their HoF chance before them. Something like"Sorry, you're the 10th QB this decade with 50,000+ yards and 300+ TDs, its just not impressive anymore."
    Very different game these days is how (as you touched upon). The league is geared to passing as opposed to the traditional run run run approach. Not saying these guys won't get in, but that would be the excuse used. Time will tell.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Sounds like ARI traded Boldin to the Ravens for 3rd and 4th round draft picks.

  9. #69
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    Sounds like ARI traded Boldin to the Ravens for 3rd and 4th round draft picks.
    Just happy the Pats didn't get him.



  10. #70
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    Man, teams overvalue draft picks. Boldin is pro bowl quality, easily, 3rd and 4th seems like a steal for the Ravens.

  11. #71
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Man, teams overvalue draft picks. Boldin is pro bowl quality, easily, 3rd and 4th seems like a steal for the Ravens.
    Totally agree. (and as a Steelers fan, I am not happy he's in the division now)

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_illin View Post
    Totally agree. (and as a Steelers fan, I am not happy he's in the division now)
    Yeah, every bit as good as Marshal who pulled in a first and could've maybe gotten a 1st and 3rd. Makes no sense to me but thats why I'm not in the biz.

    He adds a crucial needed element that Ravens offense, they should be good to go next year with him, Rice, and Flacco leading the way.

  13. #73
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Yeah, every bit as good as Marshal who pulled in a first and could've maybe gotten a 1st and 3rd. Makes no sense to me but thats why I'm not in the biz.

    He adds a crucial needed element that Ravens offense, they should be good to go next year with him, Rice, and Flacco leading the way.
    I would not say he's as good as Marshall talent wise. Marshall is a ball catching machine with the ability to break a game completely open.

    But for the value they got Boldin with, and the type of fit he seems to be with what Baltimore is trying to do, it definitely seems like the better of the two moves for THIS team.

    Marshall without the off-field BS, has a valid argument for the best receiver in the game today.



  14. #74
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    Marshall without the off-field BS, has a valid argument for the best receiver in the game today.
    That I won't agree with. But I think Marshal and Boldin both are arguably top 5's.

  15. #75
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    That I won't agree with. But I think Marshal and Boldin both are arguably top 5's.
    I can make a stronger argument as Marshall being the best WR in the league, over Boldin being top 5.

    And I really like Boldin's game.



  16. #76
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    Marshal is no Larry Fitzgerald, I'd love to see the argument that says hes better, and Boldin being top 5 currently is hardly an argument but a statistical fact over the last 5-6 years (On a per-game basis).

  17. #77
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    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...r_g_career.htm

    Not the end-all stat but its an incredibly significant number. Boldin is the fucking man.

  18. #78
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Marshal is no Larry Fitzgerald, I'd love to see the argument that says hes better, and Boldin being top 5 currently is hardly an argument but a statistical fact over the last 5-6 years (On a per-game basis).
    It's between Marshall, Fitz and Andre Johnson for #1 for me.

    Marshall has been in the league 4 seasons, he has THREE straight 100 reception seasons and if he hits 4, I think the only other player to do that in NFL history is Marvin Harrison? That's a pretty damn impressive stat for someone that's barely been in the league. Not to mention playing with no real #2 receiver with him.

    Fitz is definitely every bit as good, and a TD monster. He's also played with Boldin so he has had a partner in crime so they couldn't roll coverage to him like they did Marshall.

    Andre Johnson for me is the #1 receiver in the league. He does it all.

    Those are my top 3, really in any order but Marshall IS in that discussion for #1.

    As for better receivers I'd take right now over Boldin?

    In no order: Marshall, Fitz, Johnson, Welker, Calvin Johnson, Wayne, Ocho and Steve Smith (CAR).

    I'd take those without question, and there are others like Colston, Roddy, Jennings, Holmes that are all in the mix for me over Boldin.

    But as I said, Boldin IS the toughest WR in the league, over Welker. Boldin will do all the dirty routes and blocks with the best of them. Such a great fit for Baltimore, he's a stud.



  19. #79
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    Boldin would've opened his career with 3 straight 100 reception seasons if he didn't miss half his sophmore season.

    Welker, Wayne, Ocho are not in Boldin's league. Welker doesn't deserve comparison to anyone but pure slot recievers. He doesn't do any of the truly talented things done by the other guys on your list every game. Welker can go 6-7 games wihtout having to make a difficult catch. Hes a tough son of a bitch but he is not a top recieving talent in this league and is only as good as the system hes a part of.

    Wayne has benefitted from a quarterback more than any WR in league history over an entire career. Hes older now and as a talent is nowhere near Boldin at the present. Maybe in his prime, but not in the present.

    Ochosinco? Really? Hes a stud, but thats just insanity to call him better than Boldin, in his prime or in his current age. Not even close, Boldin is just plain better.

    Andre Johnson is an obvious one.

    My rough list would go (Any players grouped together aren't in exact order, so Fitzgerald and Johnson are both #1/#2).

    1-2) Andre Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald (Andre's reasons are obvious but I swear there might not be a person in NFL history who can make the play on a ball like Fitzgerald can. Absolutely embarasses defenders in perfect coverage constantly).
    3-8) Calvin Johnson, Sidney Rice (This is way early but oh my Lord is this dude spectacular), Anquan Boldin, Brendan Marshal, Randy Moss (You forget about him??), Miles Austin (Him too?? He isn't going anywhere, this dudes no fluke).
    8-11) Wayne, Ochosinco, Welker, Steve Smith (panthers)

    Then everyone else.

    so they couldn't roll coverage to him like they did Marshall.
    Eh, I don't think this gives Marshal an edge in the debate. Ultimately when they're rolling coverage on you that means no one else on your team is worth shit so you're still getting all the looks. Solo recievers have always done great through league history, what you lose through double coverage, you gain through increased looks. So I don't buy that Marshall's numbers are any more impressive.
    Last edited by Kyle; 03-07-2010 at 01:27 PM.

  20. #80
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Fair enough. We have some different opinions, but we both can agree Baltimore got a hell of a receiver and seemingly a perfect fit.

    PS: Johnson can make the same play on the ball that Fitz can, the world just doesn't seen enough of him.



  21. #81
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    Yeah, Baltimore is going to be an offensive machine next year. They were right there this year, so close to a great offense, and Boldin is a BIG push in the right direction.

    And of course Johnson can make plays on the ball. What can't he do? But Fitzgerald's verticle is mindblowing and while I'm sure Johnsons done it tons of times, he seems to make an impossible leap and grab once or twice a game.

  22. #82
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Yeah, Baltimore is going to be an offensive machine next year. They were right there this year, so close to a great offense, and Boldin is a BIG push in the right direction.

    And of course Johnson can make plays on the ball. What can't he do? But Fitzgerald's verticle is mindblowing and while I'm sure Johnsons done it tons of times, he seems to make an impossible leap and grab once or twice a game.
    I'm interested to see Boldin work without Fitz and with a run-first team. I have no questions about what Boldin can/can't do, but it'll definitely be a change for him.



  23. #83
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    Well Marshall going to the Seahawks (If he does) will be quite a change too

  24. #84
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Well Marshall going to the Seahawks (If he does) will be quite a change too
    Not as much though because of the fact that Marshall worked with both the Seahawks new OC, Jeremy Bates and their new WR coach. The problem might be the QB, but if Marshall can catch the ball 100 times from Kyle Orton, I don't doubt Marshall being able to do it with anyone.

    A change nonetheless though.
    Last edited by dw13; 03-07-2010 at 01:39 PM.



  25. #85
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    Yeah the QB issue is what concerns me but both recievers will do fine I'm sure.

  26. #86
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    http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/sdubzz/habs.jpg

  27. #87
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    Matt Leinart must love this.

  28. #88
    2010 Dead Pool Champion All-Star Hockeyis#1's Avatar
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    It seems like no one has ever had much faith in Matt Leinart to be a solid starter.


  29. #89
    The Original K.I.N.G. Hall of Famer King_Killah's Avatar
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    Dan Williams.
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    The Original K.I.N.G. Hall of Famer King_Killah's Avatar
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    Daryl Washington. Like this pick here.
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