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  1. #4441
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    ^ ????

  2. #4442
    Senior Member Hall of Famer phaneuf6's Avatar
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    Word is that they're talking Dickey trade with an NL team... maybe the Mets? Dickey + bat for a SP?

  3. #4443
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I like the Revere for Storen deal. I liked Revere but they have depth in LF with Saunders and Pompey. They had to get some more RP help. It's a good add. One of Pompey, Pillar, Travis can lead off.

    Yeah I'm not sure which NL team wants Dickey but I would only do it if they get something good back. One thing they will miss with Dickey is his 200 IP every year.

    I wonder if they would trade for Jay Bruce, word is he's now willing to waive his NTC for the Blue Jays.
    Last edited by two24four; 01-09-2016 at 04:05 PM.

  4. #4444
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaneuf6 View Post
    Word is that they're talking Dickey trade with an NL team... maybe the Mets? Dickey + bat for a SP?
    A case could be made for any team other than the Mets. There's no chance that the Mets will trade for him. They're set in the rotation. They already have a solid 5, and that's not even counting Wheeler. He should be back by the AS break.


  5. #4445
    Senior Member Hall of Famer phaneuf6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    A case could be made for any team other than the Mets. There's no chance that the Mets will trade for him. They're set in the rotation. They already have a solid 5, and that's not even counting Wheeler. He should be back by the AS break.
    But that's exactly why they might be a match. Move an arm for Dickey and a bat like Encarnacion. Just a thought.

  6. #4446
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaneuf6 View Post
    But that's exactly why they might be a match. Move an arm for Dickey and a bat like Encarnacion. Just a thought.
    I'll never say never but I'd be pretty shocked if something like that went down. The Mets can definitely use a bat or 2 but their needs are at OF (CF) and SS. I also can't see the Mets getting older in the rotation, especially at Dickey's prorated $12M salary. Alderson claims that he can spend money but doesn't act like it. The way it looks, they are going to try to repeat last year. Let their pitching keep them close enough in the first half and then make a deal for a bat at the deadline. It's definitely risky but that's what it looks like now.


  7. #4447
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    If the Blue Jays ever traded EE I'm not sure it would be to the NL. He's more of a DH than anything now. If he ever did get traded to the NL it would have to be a team with an opening at 1B. I'm still hoping they get him resigned before the season starts.

  8. #4448
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Maybe Tulo then?

    Goins can man SS with Travis at 2B

  9. #4449
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I'm not sure they would trade Tulo. It would take a lot coming back this way I think to trade him. I also think he will have a much better season in the AL now that he's played in it.


    They are saying Travis won't be ready for spring training.

  10. #4450
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    ^ that really pisses me off. Wtf did he/they wait so long with the operation?! (I'm remember thinking that back in November when they announced he's gone under the knife)

  11. #4451
    Senior Member Hall of Famer phaneuf6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_illin View Post
    ^ that really pisses me off. Wtf did he/they wait so long with the operation?! (I'm remember thinking that back in November when they announced he's gone under the knife)
    I think there was still a glimmer of hope that he would be able to come back and play in the post-season. That was the speculation in September, I believe.

  12. #4452
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    So the Dodgers named AA VP of baseball operations. That is a bigger role then I thought he was going to get with them.

  13. #4453
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    He clearly didn't line Shapiro or the thought of working under him.

  14. #4454
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    He did not want to work under him. He did not want to have to go to him everytime he made a trade or pick up etc....that is my guess anyways. I Really don't blame him if that's it.. He said yesterday on PTS that within the year he's moving to LA full time.
    Last edited by two24four; 01-13-2016 at 12:20 PM.

  15. #4455
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Maybe he's back in 2-3 yrs when the Jays fire the Indians front office.

  16. #4456
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Maybe he will. Or maybe if Montreal ever gets a team back he will become the GM of that team. He's from Montreal, I bet he would jump all over that.

  17. #4457
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Maicer motherfucking Izturis signed a minor league deal with the Jays - plan the parade!

    #FuckShapiro

  18. #4458
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I wish AA was still the GM of the Blue Jays, trust me I do. But I'm not going to jump all over Shapiro/Atkins at this point. This is the most excited I have been for the baseball season on February 1st in a long time. Heck spring training still doesn't start for a few more weeks. This team has a chance to go far again.

    This is still going to be a very good team, their batting order will be one of the best if not the best in the MLB, pitchers fear going up against the Blue Jays lineup. Could the starting 5 still use some work? Sure it could. But if Stroman can take his game to the next level like I think he can he will be an ace. Estrada is a solid #2. The pen got better with the Storen deal, they can now rollout Cecil, Osuna and Storen in the 7th, 8th and 9th, and who knows where Sanchez will be pitching from, could be the pen or the starting 5. Seems like he wants to be in the starting 5.

    They do need to find a backup catcher though, if Martin ever had to miss games they can't start Thole 5 of 6 games.

    Biggest question mark will be what do they do with Goins/Travis once Travis is back around May. Goins has a gold glove type of glove at 2nd, (he saves so many runs from scoring) he also did show he can hit abit. But Travis is much better at the plate and he can leadoff. Do they rotate them once he's back? Maybe Goins plays vs righty's and Travis vs lefy's. It's a good problem to have.

    If they are in a good spot come the trade deadline then they could always go after another SP again. I doubt they will do what they did last season in getting players but I bet they go and get a SP if they are in a good spot.
    Last edited by two24four; 02-01-2016 at 02:57 PM.

  19. #4459
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Getting pissed at a minor league signing with zero risk? Tough crowd.


  20. #4460
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I could be wrong, but I think he's upset that they have not signed or traded for a big name SP. Just sign a few players to minor league deals and the Storen trade. It's way to early to jump on Shapiro/Atkins though IMO. Let's see what they do with more time once the season starts.

  21. #4461
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    Getting pissed at a minor league signing with zero risk? Tough crowd.
    I'm pissed because that's about all they have done in terms of signings this off-season other than re-signing Estrada which was solid. Oh yeah, they signed JA Happ too...woo-fucking-hoo! I didn't expect them to sign Price or Greinke etc. but I am greatly annoyed that Shapiro and Co. (which includes nimrod Edward Rogers) whiffed on signing some quality arms to go with the top offense in baseball. Last season showed that if they build it, the fans will come...and spend a fortune! The team made $50+mm with their playoff run and what do they do? Pocket it all instead of reinvesting it and improving the on-field product. Total slap in the face imo.

    Two24Four, I sincerely hope you are right and the offense can cover the holes in the pitching staff, but you surely you have to be disappointed by this half-ass off-season? Let's be clear, the window is open for this season than likely closes for a year or two as I don't see them bringing back one of Bats or EE...or both. I think Stroman can step up but I am not terribly sure that Happ will play like he did in PIT down the stretch nor can Chavez be a reliable starter. I hope that Sanchez can step in as a starter and excel but who knows. Doug Fister signed for $7mm for fucks sake. Maybe he was dying to play for the Astros and wanted nothing to do with the best offense in baseball...but I highly doubt that.

    If Shapiro and Atkins are going to pull a rabbit out of a hat, they better do it soon because all the goodwill the team bought last year with the Price/Tulo/Revere acquisitions has been replaced with fan anger over the AA fiasco and the reluctance to make a fucking effort to improve the team. It's a giant fuck you slap in the face to fans.

  22. #4462
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Not sure if you know or care but the Yankees are the only team not to sign a free agent. I never thought that I'd see that.


  23. #4463
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    If you are upset at anyone be upset at Rogers. They are the ones who hired Shapiro.

    Am I upset that they haven't done more this off season? Sure, I would have loved to see them resign Price or another big SP, but they weren't giving him the $$ he ended up getting.

    I'm going to wait and see how this team does and what if anything Shapiro/Atkins do to make this team better if needed at the deadline or sooner. I do agree that they have to go all in again this season but there isn't as many big name free agent pitchers coming up this year as last year. The biggest name will be Strasburg. So this deadline might not see as many big SP moved unless teams get creative.

  24. #4464
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    Not sure if you know or care but the Yankees are the only team not to sign a free agent. I never thought that I'd see that.
    Yes, I think they are finally realizing they have to change their ways and that they need to show restraint for a couple of years til the shitty, bloated contracts run out then they'll start signing FA's again...though with the aforementioned restraint instead of throwing caution to the wind.

    That btw is another reason why I am pissed - how often to either of the BoSox or Yankees not spend a gazillion dollars on payroll? Last year was a golden opportunity for the Jays and this year as well perhaps, although the BoSox have re-tooled nicely. Why the Jays didn't make some HUGE one-year offers to guys like Price and Greinke (etc) to entice them to play on a powerhouse amazes me - the ROI would be monstrous if the Jays were a winner from day 1 to the World Series. (you may not know that Rogers, who owns the team, also is a media behemoth up here and has all of the Jays broadcasting rights - the ratings were through the roof in Sept/Oct so they'd easily make back whatever additional monies they'd have had to spend to go all in this year)

  25. #4465
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    I understand your frustration but there was no chance that any of the guys you mentioned would have taken a big one year deal. Cespedes was a unique situation.


  26. #4466
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    I understand your frustration but there was no chance that any of the guys you mentioned would have taken a big one year deal. Cespedes was a unique situation.
    Agreed. Price is 30 while Greinke is 32, this could be their last contract. They can't take a chance signing for one year, it's to risky for pitchers in their prime.

  27. #4467
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    I'll never understand that logic (from the players perspective). Me, I'd take $40mm on a 1-yr deal and use $2-5mm+ to buy a gold-plated insurance policy that pays out $100-200mm+ in the event of a career-ending injury, etc.

    Maybe it's easy for me to say the following as I am not a zillionaire, but if I had made tens (or hundreds) of millions in my career, I'd put winning above making sure I make another couple hundred mil. (I mean how different is your life with $100mm vs. $200mm+?!)

  28. #4468
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    The players pretty much always go for the security of a long-term deal over a higher one-year salary. Even in the NFL with non-guaranteed contracts, they generally hate being franchised, even though they get a great one-year salary. I'm also not versed in the cost of those insurance policies but I would assume that your figures are way off. Let's look at Greinke, for example. He's coming off of a career year and is 32 years old. He can't possibly do anything this year to increase his value. His annual salary is over $34M. Do you think that it makes sense for him to accept a one-year deal? Not a chance. If Toronto offered him $40M for one season, he'd need to sign a 5 year deal after next season worth $33.3M per season at 33 years old just to break even. He wouldn't do that and there's a good chance that no team would even come close to that. The same logic applies to Price.


  29. #4469
    Senior Member Hall of Famer phaneuf6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    The players pretty much always go for the security of a long-term deal over a higher one-year salary. Even in the NFL with non-guaranteed contracts, they generally hate being franchised, even though they get a great one-year salary. I'm also not versed in the cost of those insurance policies but I would assume that your figures are way off. Let's look at Greinke, for example. He's coming off of a career year and is 32 years old. He can't possibly do anything this year to increase his value. His annual salary is over $34M. Do you think that it makes sense for him to accept a one-year deal? Not a chance. If Toronto offered him $40M for one season, he'd need to sign a 5 year deal after next season worth $33.3M per season at 33 years old just to break even. He wouldn't do that and there's a good chance that no team would even come close to that. The same logic applies to Price.
    While I don't necessarily disagree, you're leaving out the effect the market has year-to-year. In other words, the ace pitcher last year is worth less than this year's, who is worth less than next years.

  30. #4470
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaneuf6 View Post
    While I don't necessarily disagree, you're leaving out the effect the market has year-to-year. In other words, the ace pitcher last year is worth less than this year's, who is worth less than next years.
    There are other factors, though. If we assume that Greinke would have gotten a bigger a bigger contract next year with everything else equal, we need to remember that everything isn't equal. He'll be a year older and most likely won't sniff the season that he had last year. He had a ton of leverage this offseason.


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