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  1. #3031
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    They just said on the radio that the Jays have put Gregg, Downs and Frasor on the trading block.

  2. #3032
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5379421

    Alex Gonzalez+ to the Braves for Yunel and JoJo Reyes.



  3. #3033
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Saw this, I dont mind this deal, Escobar will help at short for awhile till Hechavarria shows up.


  4. #3034
    Senior Member All-Star Motorcat's Avatar
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    I like this trade for the Braves ........... Escobar had become by all accounts a clubhouse cancer - It will be interesting to see if a change of scenery helps Escobar become the player he has the potential to be. If not I think you guys are going to be screaming for his head - his refusal to learn the language and me first attitude wore thin with one of the best player managers in the game.

    I also like A.Gon's bat and especially his glove at this point in time - I am curious about his current contract .... hope this is not a rental.



  5. #3035
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    I believe that he has a club option for 2011 for a very reasonable $2.5M.


  6. #3036
    Senior Member All-Star boredguy's Avatar
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    Gonzalez makes $1.2 mil for the rest of this season and has a club option for $2.5 next season, which is reasonable so might not be a rental.
    I think the trade works for both teams, Escobar having a bad season and apparently not getting along with management made him tradable. He's good enough to be a top 10 SS so it works well for the Jays. AGon while having a career year is very good defensively and does have some legit pop. He doesn't walk or hit for average though, so he'll be a bottom of the order guy. Collins has some sick K/9 numbers in AA, but he's a very small guy so there's doubts whether he can translate it to the majors. He's not a bad speculative pice to grab to make up for the gap in what most people would see the perceived value between Escobar and Gonzalez.

  7. #3037
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I'm not worried about Escobar at all, I think a change might be just what he needs.

    Like they said today on the radio, most latino baseball players once they get here they fall in love with Toronto.

    AA said today that there is no way he could have traded for Escobar at the start of the season, he said the Braves would have just laughed at him, Escobar having a down year might just be a belssing for the Jays in the long run.
    Last edited by two24four; 07-14-2010 at 06:24 PM.

  8. #3038
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Clear win for the Blue Jays, IMO. Escobar might have caused some problems in ATL but his talent is undeniable. Alex Gonz is playing completely over his head right now, and his bat will end up being a liability for the Braves. He plays good defense, but not THAT much better then Escobar, IMO.

    I see the deal for both teams though. It could end up working out just fine both ways.



  9. #3039
    GM in the Making All-Star keys2aFranchise's Avatar
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    love this deal for the Jays.


  10. #3040
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Steve Simmons put this on twitter today.

    Last time the Blue Jays picked up a player with this sour a reputation he turned out to be Devon White. And that was just fine.

  11. #3041
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Loving Escobar, he's playing awesome so far for the Jays.

  12. #3042
    Senior Member All-Star canuckthug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    Loving Escobar, he's playing awesome so far for the Jays.
    yeah, i agree. Hes in the lineup tonight after that hit pitch a few games ago. hopefully he can keep up the .400+ batting average!! lol.

    The Jays have the most homers in the league and now have the most extra base hits in the majors... If they only could have been in the middle of the pack (or higher) when it comes to hits with RISP....

  13. #3043
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Sounds like alot of teams have been calling about Bautista, Rockies showing they want him the most so far from what I have heard.

    I would only trade him if the right offer comes along, if not we can still use him in the years to come, he's really not that bad if he can keep hitting HR's and driving runs in like he has been, (AVG is not great though) he has a rocket for an arm out in RF as well. He can also play at 3B or 1B if need be.

    I would be trying to trade Downs, Gregg, Frasor, Overbay 1st.
    Last edited by two24four; 07-22-2010 at 01:30 PM.

  14. #3044
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Same thoughts on Bautista - if they offer up a really nice prospect or two, sure, but he has shown enough to have the Jays thinking about keeping him for a few years - other than that shit avg, he is great...amazing OBP & SLG!

    (I wonder if we are now overvaluing after all talking shit about him before the season )

  15. #3045
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_illin View Post
    Same thoughts on Bautista - if they offer up a really nice prospect or two, sure, but he has shown enough to have the Jays thinking about keeping him for a few years - other than that shit avg, he is great...amazing OBP & SLG!

    (I wonder if we are now overvaluing after all talking shit about him before the season )
    .354 OBP is far from amazing.



  16. #3046
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawinna13 View Post
    .354 OBP is far from amazing.
    Agreed. Even with his slugging, he still only has an OPS of .897. Not sure what you can expect for him. He'll start next year as a 30 year old, already has career highs in HR and RBI, and is at his career BA this season (.238). Maybe he's a late bloomer or maybe he just stepped in shit this season. I don't know.


  17. #3047
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    If they get an offer for a prospect or two, or even a player like Escobar for Bautista, then sure I say trade him, if it helps with the rebuild I'm all for trading him.

    There really might not be a better time to trade him then right now, his value is at an all time high.

  18. #3048
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    If they get an offer for a prospect or two, or even a player like Escobar for Bautista, then sure I say trade him, if it helps with the rebuild I'm all for trading him.

    There really might not be a better time to trade him then right now, his value is at an all time high.
    Exactly. Best time to sell him is now. They did the same with Alex Gonz and it was a great move.



  19. #3049
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    If only the Jays could play the O's 162 times a year they are 10-0 vs them this season so far.

    Alot of people seem to think that Downs and Buck will be traded by the deadline on Saturday, alot of teams like Downs, he would help any team in a playoff race pen out, CIN, SD, BOS, NYY, LAD, etc.... Boston has called about Buck from what I have heard.
    Last edited by two24four; 07-27-2010 at 05:07 PM.

  20. #3050
    Senior Member All-Star boredguy's Avatar
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    It is quite a streak, but my guess is there's 28 other teams that'd wanna play the O's 162 games a year.
    I really thought Batista woulda cooled down by now but he just keeps mashing the ball, unreal. He's making himself untradeable, guess we'll see if that's good or not next year.

  21. #3051
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Bautista is the man right now, 1st player in the majors to hit 30 Hr's with two tonight, he now also has 75 RBI's on the season, he's seeing the ball great right now, he's hitting everything hard, it really will be hard to trade him the way he's playing, he threw another base runner out tonight at 3rd from RF, another rocket.

    The more I watch Escobar the more I love him, he's awesome both at the plate and in the feild, he's batting almost .400 since the trade, and what a play he made tonight fliping the ball from his glove behind his back to Hill to get the out, all while Robbie Alomar was in the booth talking about him, great timing. I think he just needed to get out of ATL by the looks of it, you can tell he's having fun now, laughing and joking around like he was tonight.

  22. #3052
    Senior Member All-Star canuckthug's Avatar
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    Bautista needs to be part of the team. They cant trade him for prospects, not now. He was leading the league in homers 2 weeks ago and people figured he became excellent trade bait. Where is the line drawn from trusting players on your team and in your system and upgrading? Management needs to utilize the picks and prospects they got in the Halladay deal, Rios deal and other deals and rely on drafting. I like the way Alex Antho is operating and this team does not need to wipe the slate clean like many think. They do need a solid closer. I liked how they got BJ Ryan but that never worked out. Buck is the best back catcher ive seen the Jays have in years and one of the best in the AL and it makes zero sense to "upgrade" or look for prospects. Whose gonna be catcher let alone the awsome catcher that Buck is. Nobody can fill that void. The defence will take a serious blow. Dont mix the Toronto Blue Jays with the Leafs. The leafs needed to wipe the slate clean and they are doing and did what they could. The Blue Jays need some tweaking. They have alot of good tools. Start with a closer and a hitting coach. On that note, Antho better not trade Downs. We'll see what happens.. when is the trade deadline anyway?

  23. #3053
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nineoneone View Post
    Bautista needs to be part of the team. They cant trade him for prospects, not now. He was leading the league in homers 2 weeks ago and people figured he became excellent trade bait. Where is the line drawn from trusting players on your team and in your system and upgrading? Management needs to utilize the picks and prospects they got in the Halladay deal, Rios deal and other deals and rely on drafting. I like the way Alex Antho is operating and this team does not need to wipe the slate clean like many think. They do need a solid closer. I liked how they got BJ Ryan but that never worked out. Buck is the best back catcher ive seen the Jays have in years and one of the best in the AL and it makes zero sense to "upgrade" or look for prospects. Whose gonna be catcher let alone the awsome catcher that Buck is. Nobody can fill that void. The defence will take a serious blow. Dont mix the Toronto Blue Jays with the Leafs. The leafs needed to wipe the slate clean and they are doing and did what they could. The Blue Jays need some tweaking. They have alot of good tools. Start with a closer and a hitting coach. On that note, Antho better not trade Downs. We'll see what happens.. when is the trade deadline anyway?
    A few things after reading this.

    Deadline is this Saturday July 31st.

    Jays got nothing for Rios, he was put on waivers and picked up by CHI.

    Dont be shocked if Buck is traded, I agree he's good, but they will do every thing they can to get what ever they can for him now, it was made clear at the start of the season that both Buck and Molina where here keeping the catchers seat warm for J.P. Arencibia (Jays 1st round pick, 21st overall in '07) who is having a great season in AAA, he's hitting .309, with 29 Hr's, 74 RBI's this season, he should be up before the season is over, maybe sooner if Buck is traded.

    They also have catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud (who is in class A this season) who was part of the Halladay pakage, he's still a year or two away, but he and Arencibia will make for a great one two punch behind the plate in the years to come.

    I think going into next season having Arencibia as the #1 guy with Molina backing him up would be great, know one better to learn from.

    I think Downs is as good as gone this week if the rumors about him are true, alot of insiders are saying he's the best non starter in the MLB being shopped, they might get a nice return for him, Frasor and Gregg are also on the trading block.

    It's starting to look like the Jays are grooming Purcey for the closers role, which might not be a bad idea, he looks good in the later innings role.

    Not sure why you think the Jays need a hitting coach, they have Dwayne Murphy who has been doing an awesome job this season. They will need a new manager after this season as Cito is moving into the front office for the next 4 or 5 years.
    Last edited by two24four; 07-28-2010 at 12:09 AM.

  24. #3054
    Senior Member All-Star canuckthug's Avatar
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    I was unaware the Jays had some good catching prospects (which is good) but Buck is proving to be the real deal. IMO, the jays should cash in on the prospects you mentioned who have yet to play a game in the MLB rather than trade Buck who is playing at a high level. There is a better chance that these prospects will be a complete bust at the MLB level. I would not risk that. Its like blackjack. Buck is 18 and your asking the dealer to hit. I question that move.

    The Jays are batting .247 as a team and .257 with runners in scoring position which are both 2nd last in the AL. I know they lead the league in homers which is awsome but batting average is the batting coach's job to improve. Im just a fan who is throwing the blame at the batting coach. Something has to be done!?!

    I understand that Anthopo is rebuilding a team and World series/playoff expectations were low this year but i honestly believe if a solid closer is acquired and the hitting can be consistent (gotta have some .300 hitters in the lineup!) this team will finally make a serious run for October baseball.

  25. #3055
    Can you see what I see??? Hall of Famer secol's Avatar
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    i disagree....buck with a career season already (career highs in most categories). jose buatista career season in most categories as well. both are turning 30 this year, which screams sell high to me?
    12 team Keeper League ROTO....G, A, +/-, PIMs, PPP, GWG. W, GAA, SV%, SHO...KEEP 5


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  26. #3056
    Senior Member All-Star canuckthug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secol View Post
    i disagree....buck with a career season already (career highs in most categories). jose buatista career season in most categories as well. both are turning 30 this year, which screams sell high to me?

    Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin ----> Career high's set at 30. Andrew Christopher "Drew" Brees born January 15th, 1979 is the starting quarter bac.... I can look for and find countless examples of athletes who excel at and after 30... Im 29 myself and am ready to take on the world! I never felt stronger and feel like im in the prime of my life. If I was Donald Trump and this was The Apprentice i would fire you just for saying what you said.. You're Fired!!!

  27. #3057
    Go Bolts Hall of Famer dw13's Avatar
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    That is not how this game is played. Both of these guys are on ONE year deals. There isn't a chance the Jays think about resigning either of them, IMO. They both have played well over their heads and they could net ALOT more then what they are worth. I'll agree 30 doesn't mean you are over the hill, but 30 means you are well on your way down that hill. Buck and Bautista do not have any track record, and they were merely stop-gap for younger players for the Jays. It's a rebuilding year, and they're doing well.

    You don't ship out your top prospects because players like Bautista and Buck have played well one season. Baseball, especially in a small market like Toronto is all about building through the farm system. They have done a really good job since the turnover of GM's in stocking up the farm system and trading Bautista/Buck will only help that.

    PS: You talk about how well Bautista has played, then say homers are not everything? Bautista's .235 AVG and .349 OBP certainly leaves alot to be desired.



  28. #3058
    Senior Member All-Star canuckthug's Avatar
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    Trading deadline is in 3 days... we'll see what Anthopoulos does. Id sign Bautista for 2 years and because two24four mentioned how the jays have "above average" catching in the farm... im not overly worried about losing Buck but it would piss me off to see him on another team (especially if the Jays get ripped off in the deal).

  29. #3059
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nineoneone View Post
    Bautista needs to be part of the team. They cant trade him for prospects, not now. He was leading the league in homers 2 weeks ago and people figured he became excellent trade bait. Where is the line drawn from trusting players on your team and in your system and upgrading? Management needs to utilize the picks and prospects they got in the Halladay deal, Rios deal and other deals and rely on drafting. I like the way Alex Antho is operating and this team does not need to wipe the slate clean like many think. They do need a solid closer. I liked how they got BJ Ryan but that never worked out. Buck is the best back catcher ive seen the Jays have in years and one of the best in the AL and it makes zero sense to "upgrade" or look for prospects. Whose gonna be catcher let alone the awsome catcher that Buck is. Nobody can fill that void. The defence will take a serious blow. Dont mix the Toronto Blue Jays with the Leafs. The leafs needed to wipe the slate clean and they are doing and did what they could. The Blue Jays need some tweaking. They have alot of good tools. Start with a closer and a hitting coach. On that note, Antho better not trade Downs. We'll see what happens.. when is the trade deadline anyway?
    I disagree with most of this.

    A) we got nothing for Rios I believe...it was a pure dump
    B) we absolutely should trade Buck - we can resign him in the offseason potentially and we have Molina for defence and for the kid pitchers.....we also have Arrencibia looking ready for a call-up.
    C) they absolutely should trade Downs if they get a solid offer - he's not getting any younger and may not even be on the team in 2 years when they are ready to compete. If dealing Buck and Downs (and Bautista...if the deal is really sweet) get us players that could start contributing in 2 yrs, then I am all for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nineoneone View Post
    Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin ----> Career high's set at 30. Andrew Christopher "Drew" Brees born January 15th, 1979 is the starting quarter bac.... I can look for and find countless examples of athletes who excel at and after 30... Im 29 myself and am ready to take on the world! I never felt stronger and feel like im in the prime of my life. If I was Donald Trump and this was The Apprentice i would fire you just for saying what you said.. You're Fired!!!
    You don't know what you're talking about and you don't seem to have the grasp on baseball that the other contestants do...nineonenine, you're fired!
    Last edited by b_illin; 07-28-2010 at 10:26 AM.

  30. #3060
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I'm with the rest here nineonenine, no way in hell do the Jays trade away some of there best prospects so they can keep guys like Buck, Bautista, not a chance.

    AA really does need to look into traading both now and getting what ever he can for them, it will help this team in the long run.

    The Jays are in full rebiuld mode right now, it you want to hear that or not, but they are, if AA can trade Buck, Bautista, Overbay Downs, Gregg, Frasor and get something back he will, this is not hockey, it takes alot longer in baseball to build your team up.

    This team is starting to look pretty good for the future and if AA can help that by getting some more prospscts/young MLB players for these guys then he's doing a good job IMO.

    Here is look at this teams future.

    1B- Wallace
    2B- Hill
    SS- Escobar/Hechavarria
    3B- Hoffpauir (could also be someone else)
    LF- Lewis
    CF- Wells
    RF- Snider
    C- Arencibia/d'Arnaud
    DH- Lind

    SP- Marcum
    SP- Romero
    SP- Cecil
    SP- Morrow
    SP- Drabek

    Then they still have Litsch, Rzepczynski, Mills etc....

    RP- Camp
    RP- Accardo
    RP- Roenicke
    RP- Janssen
    RP- Reyes (he could start as well at some point)
    RP- Purcey

    That's what this team could look like in the next year or two, so as you can see they dont needs guys like Buck, Bautista, Overbay, Downs, now is the time to trade these guys and add to the young players/propects we already have.
    Last edited by two24four; 07-28-2010 at 11:48 AM.

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