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  1. #1621
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    Of course he had the balls deflated, Doc, but that he ordered them below 12.5 PSI was always an unsubstantiated charge. No judge or jury on the entire planet would have determined Brady is guilty of that, so of that charge he is absolutely innocent. Technically, there should be nothing illegal about making sure the footballs are at the bare minimum of the PSI range. If the league says "12.5-16 is okay" what's wrong with making sure it's closer to 12.5??

    It's an absurd leap to go from "We know he wanted the balls deflated" to concluding "Brady deliberately had the balls reduced below the legal minimum PSI." It might SUGGEST that he MAY HAVE wanted them illegally deflated, and certainly warranted an investigation, but that investigation concluded nothing and introduced no new evidence at all. In your case, that's where you would have been dropped as a potential suspect. So why not Brady?

    So, yes, Brady is absolutely innocent of illegally deflating footballs below 12.5 PSI as the league charged him. He might be guilty of other shit but none of that is illegal or warrants a suspension (Based on the NFL's rule book, none of what Brady did was suspension-worthy, maybe a fine for equipment violation).

    I use innocence as it pertains to US law, btw. Not the literal definition. I don't know (Nor care) if Brady deliberately wanted the balls below 12.5 PSI. I just know it wasn't proven.
    Last edited by Kyle; 09-03-2015 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #1622
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Of course he had the balls deflated, Doc, but that he ordered them below 12.5 PSI was always an unsubstantiated charge. No judge or jury on the entire planet would have determined Brady is guilty of that, so of that charge he is absolutely innocent. Technically, there should be nothing illegal about making sure the footballs are at the bare minimum of the PSI range. If the league says "12.5-16 is okay" what's wrong with making sure it's closer to 12.5??

    It's an absurd leap to go from "We know he wanted the balls deflated" to concluding "Brady deliberately had the balls reduced below the legal minimum PSI." It might SUGGEST that he MAY HAVE wanted them illegally deflated, and certainly warranted an investigation, but that investigation concluded nothing and introduced no new evidence at all. In your case, that's where you would have been dropped as a potential suspect. So why not Brady?

    So, yes, Brady is absolutely innocent of illegally deflating footballs below 12.5 PSI as the league charged him. He might be guilty of other shit but none of that is illegal or warrants a suspension (Based on the NFL's rule book, none of what Brady did was suspension-worthy, maybe a fine for equipment violation).

    I use innocence as it pertains to US law, btw. Not the literal definition. I don't know (Nor care) if Brady deliberately wanted the balls below 12.5 PSI. I just know it wasn't proven.
    I don't believe it's kosher to tamper with the balls after they've been measured...? They are measured by officials before the game, yes?

    Also, the NFL isn't a criminal court. There's no "beyond reasonable doubt" requirement they have to follow... just sayin'...
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  3. #1623
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    Regardless, he still stepped way outside the boundaries of his given powers according to the CBA. Also, I know the NFL isn't criminal court, but when a neutral US judge in a US court of law is assigned to hear the case, exactly what standard of "innocence" and "guilt" do you think they apply? When a judge says the NFL didn't sufficiently prove the claims against Brady, is that not obviously based on the American justice system's concept of guilt and innocence?

    The CBA gives players the power to fight unwarranted suspension. We just saw it despite Goodells best efforts to illegally punish Brady. That power is another way of saying "Goodell's suspensions DO need to be reasonable and well-founded" and again, the only standard people will ever widely agree on there would be the same one applied by the justice system.

    Clearly, there has to be some extent of proof established for the NFL to suspend its players. Maybe not beyond a reasonable doubt, but they didn't even come close to that here. They didn't even reasonably suggest Brady illegally deflated the footballs. All they suggested is that Brady possibly may have known that the Balls were being tampered after official inspection, which is not even mentioned in the rule book.

    And in response to the first question, that would be the equipment violation I referred to. Really not at all a big deal, it warrants a fine. The fact that the Pats lost a 1st is insane. Not to mention there's nothing at all in the rulebook to punish this offense in the first place (The offense of tampering with the balls after inspection). The only punishable offense was proving the Balls were intentionally deflated below 12.5 and that never occurred.

    You're echoing popular sentiment about the scope of Goodell's power and it has proven true many times in the past but this was a clear major turning point in favor of the players. The days of Goodell's irrational, improvised justice are, in my opinion, officially history. But only time will tell.
    Last edited by Kyle; 09-04-2015 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #1624
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    PS I do understand that Brady's innocence was not the focal point of the report by Berman, but it's easy to interpret much of what he said as 'the NFL failing to sufficiently establish their charges'

  5. #1625
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    If i were a judge id do the same thing for a million or so lol
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  6. #1626
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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  7. #1627
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    I think, if the judge were interested in accepting a bribe, the NFL/Goodell would've easily beat a 1m offer from Brady's camp

  8. #1628
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    AFC East Champs again! 7th season in a row. 13th time in the BB/Brady time.

  9. #1629
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    Anyone hear anything about Edelman suiting up this week?

  10. #1630
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_illin View Post
    Anyone hear anything about Edelman suiting up this week?
    No. I know he is back at practice but I don't think he's ready to play yet. At least I have not heard anything. Don't want to rush him back, need him in the playoffs. Sounds like he looks good at practice.
    Last edited by two24four; 12-16-2015 at 01:10 PM.

  11. #1631
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    I don't think so, either, but a Pats fan in my money league just picked him up this week. He's gotta be close.


  12. #1632
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I read tonight that he looked "crisp and quick" at practice today.

  13. #1633
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    Regardless, it's a lot less rosy in New England than it was 5-6 weeks ago. They are not the SB favorites anymore, for sure. Panthers are. The Broncos are still a major road block with that defense. The Steelers are not a team the Pats want to play against, and the Cardinals are better on both sides of the ball.

    Maybe the Pats go right back to classing the NFL when Edelman returns but anything short of that won't be enough. Their defense is weak and they now have literally no run game what so ever to defer to. Lewis and Blount could be the two injuries the Pats simply don't overcome.

  14. #1634
    Nitbag Hall of Famer FlyGuy78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Regardless, it's a lot less rosy in New England than it was 5-6 weeks ago. They are not the SB favorites anymore, for sure. Panthers are. The Broncos are still a major road block with that defense. The Steelers are not a team the Pats want to play against, and the Cardinals are better on both sides of the ball.

    Maybe the Pats go right back to classing the NFL when Edelman returns but anything short of that won't be enough. Their defense is weak and they now have literally no run game what so ever to defer to. Lewis and Blount could be the two injuries the Pats simply don't overcome.
    While I agree with the above slightly as long as Tom and Bill are there and if they end up with #1 seed in the AFC they won't be underdogs to anyone including the Super Bowl unless the Panthers go undefeated. If they get Edeleman back along with a healthy Gronk now, I think that Bolden and White could be good enough runners to get them all the way.

  15. #1635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Regardless, it's a lot less rosy in New England than it was 5-6 weeks ago. They are not the SB favorites anymore, for sure. Panthers are. The Broncos are still a major road block with that defense. The Steelers are not a team the Pats want to play against, and the Cardinals are better on both sides of the ball.

    Maybe the Pats go right back to classing the NFL when Edelman returns but anything short of that won't be enough. Their defense is weak and they now have literally no run game what so ever to defer to. Lewis and Blount could be the two injuries the Pats simply don't overcome.
    I called the Steelers as Superbowl champs a couple of weeks back...guess I am saying that here now too!

  16. #1636
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    I would rather bumps in the road now rather than in the playoffs.

    All the Patriots have left to clinch is home field throughout the AFC playoffs.

  17. #1637
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Patriots signed RB Montee Ball. They also had Steven Jackson in yesterday but seems nothing came of that.

  18. #1638
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Broncos loss means the Patriots clinched a first round bye. Really need it this year with all the injuries piling up. One more win out of their last two games will clinch home field throughout the AFC playoffs.

  19. #1639
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    Congrats 24. Edelman will be back, Gronk is good, and clearly I underestimated the backfield potential remaining in New England as their no name rbs did just as good as Lewis/Blount. The Pats are trending back up at the perfect time.

  20. #1640
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    They just signed Steven Jackson today for 1 year. See what he has left in the tank.

  21. #1641
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Of all the years this is the one where the Patriots need the 1st round bye more than anything. Brady has an ankle sprain (says he will be fine)....it also gives Edleman, Vollmer, Hightower, Jones etc....another week. The O-line is a mess right now, more time to figure that out will be huge. Another two weeks for Steven Jackson to get the playbook down. He's looked good considering he hadn't played since week 16 last season.

  22. #1642
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Patriots have been busy today. Trading Jones to ARI for Cooper and a 2nd then they sign Chris Long. I liked Jones, but I like these moves. The O-line was a mess this season, Cooper will help there.

  23. #1643
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Couple of more moves today. Signed Donald Brown and just traded for TE Martellus Bennett.

    Brady will now have Gronk, Edelman, Hogan, Amendola, Lewis, Bennett, Brown to throw at. Much better then this past season.

  24. #1644
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    Too bad Edelman, Hogan and Amendola are literally the exact same player!

  25. #1645
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_illin View Post
    Too bad Edelman, Hogan and Amendola are literally the exact same player!
    It works in NE though. Gronk and Bennett are going to be unreal.

  26. #1646
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Now they have signed former Bear LB Shea McClellin. He can play all over the front 7.

    BB is not fooling around the last little while with trades and signings. He's brought in Hogan, Cooper, Long, Bennett, Brown, and now McClellin

  27. #1647
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    Bennets not that good. He's one of those Tight Ends who the stats flatter immensely. But Brady will definitely get something out of the guy.

    And why are we even mentioning Hogan like he's even a positive addition to an NFL roster? He's a non addition. He's as bad or worse than Dobson, Thompkins, and all the other trash the Patriots have cycled at WR besides Edelman. Is that how absurdly low they set the bar in terms of surrounding Brady with weapons, that we need to hype Hogan A WR core made up of 3 hogans would be the worst in the history of the sport. The guy doesn't get to go on the "positive transaction" list.

    The Patriots have Edelman, Gronk, Lewis, and to a small extent Bennet as genuine weapons. Amendola, Brown, Hogan, all range from mediocre to dogshit.

    The Jones deal was great tho, get rid of a guy who was going to surely get overpaid last year to retain, and get a good value back before you lost him entirely.
    Last edited by Kyle; 03-17-2016 at 01:06 PM.

  28. #1648
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    The Patriots love Hogan, they see something they like a lot. I want to see him with Brady throwing to him before I say much.

    Bennett is 2nd in the most yards after making a catch for TE's since 2013 after Gronk. Two TE's who are 6'6 240+ is going to be tough to stop. It will open up the WR's more.
    Last edited by two24four; 03-17-2016 at 01:20 PM.

  29. #1649
    * * * * * * Hall of Famer b_illin's Avatar
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    Hogan is a decent little spark plug, I just think he's redundant with Edelman on the team.

  30. #1650
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    There are so few WR who start careers as mediocre as Hogan has and turn into anything halfway good. It's just a stretch regardless how much they may love the guy. They loved Amendola too.

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