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  1. #1591
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    Doc, at the end of the day, the only thing Brady is definitely guilty of is lying about wanting the balls deflated. At no point did it even suggest to ANY extent that he wanted them illegally deflated below 12.5. And the NFL has no history of data to fall back on to definitively say they deliberately made them illegally flat. They just know he wanted them deflated. It's really not the big attack on league integrity that the NFL claims. It's just a simple equipment violation that deserved a big fine to Brady and the Pats and maybe a small suspension. The punishment was a fucking joke honestly.

    Your side of the camp should stop acting like there was a microchip implanted in the ball that allowed it to trace the wide receivers electro-magnetic fields and gravitate towards them. The ball wasn't laced with magic powder that made it fly further. It was slightly flattened, an issue the NFL has never in its history chosen to invest any real thought in, and an issue that affects competitive balance about as much as a guy getting away with an offsides. Make a rule and then slam down on the guy who breaks it next, don't just fucking explode and destroy an organization for the first official offense. The NFL just put deflating footballs on par with (Or even worse than) Domestic Violence and PED abuse. Give me a break.

    A punishment was warranted. This punishment was not. It should've been 2 games for Brady and end of story, maybe a 4th and a 100-200k fine. This was just Goodell reacting to the embarrassment of Brady essentially lying to his face and Kraft making a mockery out of the league with his comments (However true they are). The conclusions by Ted Wells are fine, the reaction by Goodell was totally flawed. It was a reactionary/emotional punishment with no sensibility to it at all.

    You're really telling me Deflategate should have carried punishments in the ballpark of the Saints bounty scandal? Fuck that.
    Last edited by Kyle; 05-14-2015 at 02:23 AM.

  2. #1592
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    Against better judgement, I'll reply quickly as I have to go to work soon. My comments are about the Pats in general, including Brady. Not only Brady but including Brady. I take it very seriously that this involved multiple people in the organization over a period of time. It wasn't a one-time incident that just happened. The text messages show that this was planned. I also can't ignore the fact that they basically hijacked the balls after they were examined by the officials. That's fucking shady. Now, we can sit here and say that taking some air out of the ball is no big deal and, in a vacuum, I agree. If they wanted to say that teams can put the balls at any pressure, I wouldn't care. That wasn't the rule, though, and the involved parties knew that what they were doing was against the rules.

    Make a rule and then slam down on the guy who breaks it next, don't just fucking explode and destroy an organization for the first official offense.
    It was against the rules. There was no penalty for doing it that I know of but maybe they never envisioned a situation like this. They basically stole the fucking balls and took air out of them. You can't do that shit. This is more than just "The Pats took a little air out of the balls. What's the big deal?"

    Brady will possibly end up with 2 games so you shouldn't have a problem with that. The money doesn't matter. The picks are harsh but punishment needs to hurt or there's no reason to stop doing that shit.

    I refuse to compare penalties from different incidents. Some are on-field, some are not. Some involve a single player, some do not. They are also clearly adjusting the penalties for things. They obviously fucked up in their domestic abuse policies in the past and that will clearly change.


  3. #1593
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    Ill say it one more time. OTHER teams have tampered with game balls and were NOT penalized at all!!! Why did the league not police balls after they caught teams messing with them? Because they dont fking care.....unless it involves the Pats. Im not even a fan and i can see this a mile away.

    Is there some grey area here? Sure i can agree with that but this penalty does not fit the crime.
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  4. #1594
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  5. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    Ill say it one more time. OTHER teams have tampered with game balls and were NOT penalized at all!!! Why did the league not police balls after they caught teams messing with them? Because they dont fking care.....unless it involves the Pats. Im not even a fan and i can see this a mile away.

    Is there some grey area here? Sure i can agree with that but this penalty does not fit the crime.
    It does because they are proven cheaters in the past. This is not a first offense punishment people.

  6. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    Awesome

  7. #1597
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    And now the Pats lose Kyle Arrington. Do they have a DB left on that roster? Wow. Pats will be right back to the bottom pass D in the NFL this year. Butler made one play in his career basically and now he's forced to be an every-down starting CB.

    Not that Arrington is good by any means, but he's been a semi-successful project over a few years and is likely better than whoever they'll replace him with considering the talent available on the market right now.

    PS - Doc and Fly we'll just have to agree to disagree. Don't want to give you guys any more rants on this subject to read, we've all made ourselves rather clear.
    Last edited by Kyle; 05-14-2015 at 01:19 PM.

  8. #1598
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    PS - Doc and Fly we'll just have to agree to disagree. Don't want to give you guys any more rants on this subject to read, we've all made ourselves rather clear.
    That's what I was coming here to say. I'm done with this topic. Nice chatting.


  9. #1599
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    Now the Patriots are saying the text containing the word "Deflator" was a reference to the equipment manager's supposed efforts to "lose weight, or deflate himself."

    That is literally, in my entire life, the most pathetic and lame-brained lie I have ever heard. And I really think Robert Kraft's dumbass believes it, too. The Pats need to shut the fuck up and handle this in court, Kraft and Brady's agent are embarrassing the organization with their comments to the media.

    Nice chatting.
    Always!

  10. #1600
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    I thought that you saw that already. That definitely falls under the category of shit you can't make up.


  11. #1601
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyGuy78 View Post
    It does because they are proven cheaters in the past. This is not a first offense punishment people.
    They have tampered with balls before and been punished? Not that im aware of. What i am aware of is that other teams have tampered with balls and were not punished. Anyways, I'll just let this play out....it is subjective and both sides seem to have a good points. Let this topic deflate while i go to the gym to deflate.
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  12. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    They have tampered with balls before and been punished? Not that im aware of. What i am aware of is that other teams have tampered with balls and were not punished. Anyways, I'll just let this play out....it is subjective and both sides seem to have a good points. Let this topic deflate while i go to the gym to deflate.
    i meant this is not the first time they have been caught cheating so the punishment goes up each time. We see this all the time with repeat offenders.

  13. #1603
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    Yeah i get that papafly, but my point (and to some degree the Pats point) is that ball tampering has not been a punishable offence in other cases. Regardless...they are getting punished (too harshly imo) and the lame excuse of saying the guy was deflating himself just makes a mockery of the situation.
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  14. #1604
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    I agree that 4 games was way too much for Brady but like I said earlier I think Goodell knew that an appeal was coming and whatever the punishment was it was getting reduced so 4 games becomes 1-2 whereas 1-2 games could have been none. I also think Brady's lack of cooperation led to him getting more games.

  15. #1605
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    Well, now Goodell is hearing the appeal I guess, so it may not be reduced at all. This is silly.

    Now the likely path will be no appeal granted, and then Brady and the NFLPA elevating the issue even further.

    http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/15/tom...pension-appeal
    Last edited by Kyle; 05-15-2015 at 07:36 PM.

  16. #1606
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    I actually heard that with him presiding over the appeal there is a very good chance it gets reduced as he knows he went overboard. I'm betting it goes down to 2 games.

  17. #1607
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    Oh it will be reduced significantly imo. #2 is what really bothered me from the onset

    Brady's lawyers give three arguments for dropping the suspension:

    - The evidence collected in the Wells report doesn't prove Brady violated any NFL rules.

    - The punishment is more harsh than for previous, similar violations.

    - Under the league's collective bargaining agreement, only Goodell can punish a player for conduct detrimental to the league. The ''Deflategate'' penalties were meted out by NFL executive vice president Troy Vincent
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  18. #1608
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    I think you guys aren't really grasping what it means for Goodell to hear this appeal. Just because he delegated the discipline doesn't mean it wasn't him that decided/approved it. This is the guy overwhelmingly responsible for this overly harsh punishment, hearing his own appeal, with an emotional investment in this case and almost a sort of "you fucked me, now watch me fuck you worse" attitude about this whole thing.

    Anyone who thinks Goodell "knows" he went overboard is not grasping what an incompetent, stubborn fuck he really is. This is quite bad for Brady. The fact that Goodell will now also be responding to the attack on him and his league by Kraft (Including the infamous "He was just trying to lose weight" rationale and the proposed "sting operation") only makes things worse for Brady. Goodell is going to mock Tom. He's going to mock the idea constantly perpetuated by the Pats that the league "Didn't prove anything." He won't be there to objectively analyze the proper punishment, he will be there to reaffirm his status and his credibility.

    If anything, Brady/the Pats are lucky a punishment can't be INCREASED at an appeals hearing, because it's just as likely Goodell would do that if he had the power.

    Almost nobody is expecting Goodell to reduce a thing. There are people predicting that in the long run this may help Brady as he may be able to petition for a new appeal lead by somebody independent in response to a clear bias by Goodell. But don't expect Goodell to be the one passing the favorable ruling.

    Besides, if Brady's platform is that he still didn't do it, fuck him, he needs to grow up. The platform the entire time should've been - "We did it, now why was our punishment tenfold more severe than any other example of ball tampering or any other equipment violation in league history?" Honestly, the more the Pats dance around the obvious truth and make those senseless, irrelevant excuses (Who cares if it was a sting? They wouldn't have had a crime to bust if the Pats didn't commit one), the less I even care about Brady/New england getting the reduction in punishment that they're entitled too.
    Last edited by Kyle; 05-17-2015 at 11:28 AM.

  19. #1609
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    Thats about it Kyle...the main point is that they were over penalized and should have stood on that point. Losing weight being called deflating is absurd and shows guilt as well as tipsy toeing around the truth imo. Ive read Goodell cant be the arbitrator because he is going to be called as a witness or something....thats the NFLPA opinion. Guess we will see.
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  20. #1610
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    Sadly the NFLPA is always doomed to delude themselves into thinking they have more pull than they do.

    Goodell wasn't allowed to differ punishment to someone beneath him according to the CBA - issues this big have to be resolved by the commissioner. But, he did it anyway. The NFLPA means nothing to Goodell and has no influence on his actions.

  21. #1611
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    I do find it funny that originally the issue with Ted Wells is that "Goodell planted him to take care of his favorite owner." Now the issue with Ted Wells is that "Goodell planted him to sabotage the Patriots." I've never seen an independent investigator receive so little benefit of a doubt regarding his independence. Poor Ted Wells, did nothing but what he was hired to do and has all of America questioning his integrity for it.

  22. #1612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    I do find it funny that originally the issue with Ted Wells is that "Goodell planted him to take care of his favorite owner." Now the issue with Ted Wells is that "Goodell planted him to sabotage the Patriots." I've never seen an independent investigator receive so little benefit of a doubt regarding his independence. Poor Ted Wells, did nothing but what he was hired to do and has all of America questioning his integrity for it.
    I made the mistake the other day of responding to a retweet of a Patriots Twitter post. It all started when someone posted about why Kraft was fighting the penalties when just before that, he stated that he would accept the penalties. I said that he should have said that they would honor it if it said what they wanted it to say and that just because the report doesn't come out in your favor, that doesn't mean that it's biased. I was responded to with the fact that "the investigation is circumstantial at best". I asked him since when does circumstantial = biased? That lit a fire and the insults came. I was told that it's circumstantial since it countered what "many PhD physicists had concluded", and was followed with a link to a study done by Roderick MacKinnon. Being the dick that I am, I asked why Wells was biased and MacKinnon was not, especially considering that Kraft's group has funded MacKinnon's biotech company in the past. That wasn't responded to kindly.


  23. #1613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctego View Post
    I made the mistake the other day of responding to a retweet of a Patriots Twitter post. It all started when someone posted about why Kraft was fighting the penalties when just before that, he stated that he would accept the penalties. I said that he should have said that they would honor it if it said what they wanted it to say and that just because the report doesn't come out in your favor, that doesn't mean that it's biased. I was responded to with the fact that "the investigation is circumstantial at best". I asked him since when does circumstantial = biased? That lit a fire and the insults came. I was told that it's circumstantial since it countered what "many PhD physicists had concluded", and was followed with a link to a study done by Roderick MacKinnon. Being the dick that I am, I asked why Wells was biased and MacKinnon was not, especially considering that Kraft's group has funded MacKinnon's biotech company in the past. That wasn't responded to kindly.
    Yeah, it really is shocking how many people are acting that way on both sides of the fence. Totally immune to any logic or counter argument and just running with whatever conclusion they decided months ago when deflategate started. The lack of objectivity, while expected in any case of sports drama, is particularly extreme on this issue.

  24. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Yeah, it really is shocking how many people are acting that way on both sides of the fence. Totally immune to any logic or counter argument and just running with whatever conclusion they decided months ago when deflategate started. The lack of objectivity, while expected in any case of sports drama, is particularly extreme on this issue.
    Completely. I don't care how flawed the test may or may not be scientifically. If you think that weight loss is involved in this at all, you are wearing some serious blinders.


  25. #1615
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    Well Kraft threw in the white towel. The most ridiculous over-reaction ever by the NFL will not be appealed. No matter how much Bradys suspension is reduced, the 1st+4th round picks added to the record breaking biggest fine ever, is an absolutely fucked up blow to the Patriots.

    The million dollars is whatever, but it should have just been that, maybe a 4th but even that would be too far. The 1st is literally just ridiculous. It's out of this world absurd. I hope they made some deal to drop Brady's suspension entirely, otherwise this is just crazy.

    But if they do reduce Brady, what nonsense message does that send? That the ball boy and equipment manager (AKA the Patriots) are really more to blame than Brady? What a joke that would be. We know Brady is the puppet master there.

    Anyway, hopefully this is the first step towards putting this nonsense behind us
    Last edited by Kyle; 05-19-2015 at 02:24 PM.

  26. #1616
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    Now Spikes is gone for being a fucking moron and fleeing his vehicle after an accident (Not proven yet, but anyone who reads the reports knows its what happened, and the Pats clearly felt the same). He wasn't there last year, but he is a solid run blocker and the Pats really needed him with an unhealthy hightower to start the year.

    Honestly, the Pats defense is just miserable now. They went from top 10 to bottom 5-10 undoubtedly - It's gonna be a lot like the 2010-2013 years for this D, maybe worse...No secondary at all, and a mediocre front 7.

  27. #1617
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  28. #1618
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    I hate Brady but I love this as I got him in the 8th round in my $$$ league!!

  29. #1619
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    I'm glad the absurd logic that "They've done stuff before so Goodell stepping COMPLETELY outside his legally defined powers to punish Brady more than the CBA allows is okay" can now be put to rest. The suspension was never okay, it was never remotely reasonable, there was never a SLIGHTLY reasonable defense of it, and anyone who tried arguing otherwise was blatantly exercising the irrational bias they have against the Pats. I still can't wrap my head around what made anyone think they proved a fucking thing in the entire investigation.

    The whole "History of cheating" is such an overblown bullshit story, anyway. The Rams walkthrough claim was debunked by the GUY WHO MADE IT. The only thing they've ever been guilty of is taping a practice where they weren't supposed to tape it, outside the confines of a sealed room with walls and a roof (That was the rule, and instead the Pats recorded outside with a better vantage point).

    That's literally IT. That's all. In 13 years of BB and a few less of Brady, there's that one fucking meaningless incident that only debatable even offered a competitive advantage. What history, people?

    What a fucking great moment. At this point, it means nothing that Brady almost certainly did do it. There is no legal power to punish such a meager offense so harshly, and Goodell assumed that power regardless, and that was the only issue from day 1 and the exact reason why the judge dropped the suspension. Brady should've been smacked with a quiet 25k fine (If that) and move the fuck on NFL. A single person taking an Adderall before a game gave his team more of a competitive lift than deflated footballs gave Brady.
    Last edited by Kyle; 09-03-2015 at 11:43 AM.

  30. #1620
    King Nitbag Hall of Famer Doctego's Avatar
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    It's been about much more than just the deflation of footballs but I'll be glad when this is all over. This has magnified the point that the NFLPA is completely powerless when it comes to negotiations. They gave the commissioner the power to hand out punishment and then arbitrate grievances. I love how people are saying that this proves that Brady is innocent. This says anything but that. What this says to me is that the league had a shitload of power and ran a biased investigation. That doesn't mean that Brady is innocent. Either way, I don't give a fuck. I'll be glad when we can just talk about football.


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