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  1. #3421
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    Theres more goalies than they can roster so who knows. He is on a short contract so i dont see why they wouldnt try to flip him at least. Raanta is another guy on a cheap short deal along with Montoya. Then you have guys like Dell and Ullmark who are younger and under their entry levels still. I guess the money from Mrazek might be hard to flip and they would have 10 million tied up in goalies. You're probably right 24

    Then what will the wings do? Not really worth a buy out? Guess they will just suck it up for the year or drop him for a 7th rounder? How the mighty have fallen. I'll bet this is Zetts last year as well.
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  2. #3422
    Geek Extraordinaire Hall of Famer Hamsterkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    It sounds like it's pretty much a done deal that they are taking Fleury. If so the other goalie I would take if I'm them is Dell from SJ. Unless they have a deal to leave him alone.
    Vegas has to take 3 goalies and I could actually see them take up to 5 considering some of the teams' exposure lists. The prospect goalies could be fairly easy to flip if they want.
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  3. #3423
    Senior Member Hall of Famer phaneuf6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Any chance you can elaborate on this? I think Chg would even agree, its always felt like Kenny H and the organization absolutely adored Mrazek and were always as anxious as possible to see him take the reigns. They protected him with a lot of easier matchups his first few years and really tried to give him every chance possible to keep extended start streaks going until he'd force them to bench him. It really always felt like the opposite of what you said, like Kenny H was Mrazek's biggest fan.
    I can't really elaborate much beyond that... I met with KH at the end of the season (right before the Joe closed) and he hates both his goalies but is resigned to going with them through next season (i.e. stuck with them).

  4. #3424
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    That makes more sense. It definitely felt like he hated Howard the last few years. I can understand why, even though he didn't like Mrazek, he gave him every opportunity to take it from Howard, which was probably a contract he regretted. Makes sense.

    Pretty cool that you met him. Seems like a really nice guy.

  5. #3425
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Nice pick in round 3 taking Zach Gallant from the Petes. Living in Ptbo I've seen him lots. He's a big kid who's more of a D first centre. He's one of the better faceoff guys in the OHL. He hits like a truck and not afraid to drop the gloves when needed. I don't think he will be a top 6 guy in the NHL but he could be a solid bottom 6 guy. Really good on the PK. He will be the Petes top centre this upcoming season.

    He's not as big, but Brian Boyle comes to mind when comparing him to someone.

    Gallant flew up the draft rankings this season. I don't even think he was ranked going into the season.
    Last edited by two24four; 06-24-2017 at 10:47 AM.

  6. #3426
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    I think they will be happy with the first pick. Read some good stuff about him.
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  7. #3427
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubz View Post
    I think they will be happy with the first pick. Read some good stuff about him.
    Seems like good character guy with his head on straight, who can score, has great size. Him and Mantha on a line together could be pretty intimidating. I like the pick but time will tell.

    Was hoping one of the top two D were going to fall to them but that clearly wasn't going to happen.

  8. #3428
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    They must have really scouted the Petes as they also took Fraser. He's a tough, tough kid.

  9. #3429
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    Good. I know toughness isn't as important as it used to be, especially on an individual basis, but the Wings have been too small and too easy to play against for far too long.

    Between the guys they drafted this year, Ty Bertuzzi, Givani Smith and a few other guys currently on the team who are willing to rough it up a bit more, I think they're moving in a positive direction in that regard.

    Still gonna be 3-5 years before they're back in the playoffs I think, definitely still need to find a legit top pair dman who can put up points, as well as produce more offence ad a team in general, but they've got some decent building blocks and being harder to play against is a good first step.

  10. #3430
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    Wings getting some pretty terrible draft grades from various media sources. I don't follow prospects close enough anymore to fairly judge, but I hope they're wrong. Many are saying they had the worst draft in the league.

  11. #3431
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    They took the two Petes higher than I thought they would go. I thought Gallant would go around the 5th round. Fraser I thought 7th if at all.

  12. #3432
    Senior Member Hall of Famer chgorman's Avatar
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    yeah, sounds like they reached on a number of their picks and seemingly prioritized size and character over actual skill.

    I was pretty excited to see what they would do in this draft with a top 10 pick and a bunch of picks overall, but can't say I'm particularly impressed overall at this point.

  13. #3433
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    Wow, you guys seem to like the draft a lot more than me. I'm very neutral. I wanted defense. I'm not upset with the picks, but I'm upset they didn't grab a good defender. I give it a B- tops. I'm really annoyed that the team screwed their draft position this year with that fucking pointless late push. Combined with the iffy draft, it just feels like the better position could've made a huge difference in the team deciding to reach on a few picks. 5 spots can change a strategy dramatically.

    I defer to you guys on prospects, especially 24 who has the most impressive Jr Hockey knowledge of anybody I know. I really can't follow prospects in any sport I watch. I'm basically a full time NFL, NHL, NBA, Spanish Soccer, English Soccer, combat sport fanatic. I just have no time to follow any lower levels of any of the sports I watch (Really not even NCAA football/basketball) but I have a ton of respect for the opinions of guys who do put in that time to specific sports and knowing them inside out. To that end I'm definitely at least a bit lifted by some of the positive impressions you guys have of those early picks, but for me I can't just lie and act excited.

    As with everything surrounding this team the last few years, I approach this draft with a slightly skeptic wait-and-see approach.

  14. #3434
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    Quote Originally Posted by chgorman View Post
    yeah, sounds like they reached on a number of their picks and seemingly prioritized size and character over actual skill.

    I was pretty excited to see what they would do in this draft with a top 10 pick and a bunch of picks overall, but can't say I'm particularly impressed overall at this point.
    Honestly, most of what I read gave them what I thought to be an overly generous B grade, but those websites tended to give just about every team a B or higher except a small handful, so I guess that doesn't mean much. FWIW I googled "2017 NHL draft grades" and just clicked the first 3-4 results. At that time, none of them were negative on the Wings, and two of them were actually being overly generous.

    Overall, Wings seem to be graded on the lower-middle end of the pack, for sure. But I've certainly not read/heard that they had the worst or even among the worst drafts. Just, to me, totally mediocre.

    Which really just sums up the Wings drafting for God knows how long. Its just been very mediocre for a long time now. It really felt like Kenny H had hit another lottery batch when it felt like Manthra, Nyquist, Tatar, Athanasiou, Larkin, etc. would be stars at various points, but now the picture is much more clear. The Wings have lots of talent but no stars, and the defensive side has been neglected to the point where the team is almost certainly one of the 5 worst defensive squads in the NHL next year.
    Last edited by Kyle; 06-26-2017 at 09:50 PM.

  15. #3435
    Senior Member Hall of Famer phaneuf6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Which really just sums up the Wings drafting for God knows how long. Its just been very mediocre for a long time now. It really felt like Kenny H had hit another lottery batch when it felt like Manthra, Nyquist, Tatar, Athanasiou, Larkin, etc. would be stars at various points, but now the picture is much more clear. The Wings have lots of talent but no stars, and the defensive side has been neglected to the point where the team is almost certainly one of the 5 worst defensive squads in the NHL next year.
    The same can be said for every team that has had sustained success in the last 10 years. You really need to get lucky to get those stud talents late in the draft, and if your team has success, that's exactly where you're picking.

    Part of what frustrates me with a lot of the teams that have been successful or are going to be in the next five years (Leafs, Oilers, come to mind), is that they got to be great teams as a result of years of being fucking terrible. Chicago sucked for years, got to grab Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Crawford, Keith... even then, they missed on guys like Barker. Pittsburgh sucked and got Fleury, Malkin, Crosby. I don't need to remind you what the Oilers have been able to draft (although missing a few times it seems), and the Leafs hit the jackpot with Matthews, fast forwarding their rebuild by at least 2-3 years. So basically, as the Red Wings fall apart and rise in the draft order, that stud player to turn things around is almost bound to come around.

    If I look at the Wings draft history, considering where they have picked every year, I think they've done pretty well to be honest.

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html

  16. #3436
    Senior Member Hall of Famer two24four's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Wow, you guys seem to like the draft a lot more than me. I'm very neutral. I wanted defense. I'm not upset with the picks, but I'm upset they didn't grab a good defender. I give it a B- tops. I'm really annoyed that the team screwed their draft position this year with that fucking pointless late push. Combined with the iffy draft, it just feels like the better position could've made a huge difference in the team deciding to reach on a few picks. 5 spots can change a strategy dramatically.

    I defer to you guys on prospects, especially 24 who has the most impressive Jr Hockey knowledge of anybody I know. I really can't follow prospects in any sport I watch. I'm basically a full time NFL, NHL, NBA, Spanish Soccer, English Soccer, combat sport fanatic. I just have no time to follow any lower levels of any of the sports I watch (Really not even NCAA football/basketball) but I have a ton of respect for the opinions of guys who do put in that time to specific sports and knowing them inside out. To that end I'm definitely at least a bit lifted by some of the positive impressions you guys have of those early picks, but for me I can't just lie and act excited.

    As with everything surrounding this team the last few years, I approach this draft with a slightly skeptic wait-and-see approach.
    I live in a Jr hockey town where the team has a rich history. First ever hockey game I went to was a Petes OHL game. There are people who know way more about Jr hockey than me. Some Jr hockey fans don't follow the NHL at all. For me it's MLB, NHL, NFL, NLL/MSL/MLL (Lacrosse) Jr hockey. I use to watch NCAA football but I haven't watched a full game in a long time. I already watch football all day Sunday's, I can't spend all Saturday anymore doing the same, haha. I got tired of the UFC a few years ago.

  17. #3437
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaneuf6 View Post
    The same can be said for every team that has had sustained success in the last 10 years. You really need to get lucky to get those stud talents late in the draft, and if your team has success, that's exactly where you're picking.

    Part of what frustrates me with a lot of the teams that have been successful or are going to be in the next five years (Leafs, Oilers, come to mind), is that they got to be great teams as a result of years of being fucking terrible. Chicago sucked for years, got to grab Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Crawford, Keith... even then, they missed on guys like Barker. Pittsburgh sucked and got Fleury, Malkin, Crosby. I don't need to remind you what the Oilers have been able to draft (although missing a few times it seems), and the Leafs hit the jackpot with Matthews, fast forwarding their rebuild by at least 2-3 years. So basically, as the Red Wings fall apart and rise in the draft order, that stud player to turn things around is almost bound to come around.

    If I look at the Wings draft history, considering where they have picked every year, I think they've done pretty well to be honest.

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005492.html
    Great post. I'm always going on about how much the Hawks/Pens/Etc. had to suck for so long in order to build their near-dynasties. Its clearly very difficult to do it any other way in today's NHL and as you pointed out, the only way around it is getting lucky with just 1 first rounder like Matthews. Hopefully the Wings will find their guy. It seemed like Larkin but last year changed that a lot.

  18. #3438
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    Quote Originally Posted by two24four View Post
    I live in a Jr hockey town where the team has a rich history. First ever hockey game I went to was a Petes OHL game. There are people who know way more about Jr hockey than me. Some Jr hockey fans don't follow the NHL at all. For me it's MLB, NHL, NFL, NLL/MSL/MLL (Lacrosse) Jr hockey. I use to watch NCAA football but I haven't watched a full game in a long time. I already watch football all day Sunday's, I can't spend all Saturday anymore doing the same, haha. I got tired of the UFC a few years ago.
    Right on. Same reason as me for ditching NCAA football, and if it wasn't for Conner I'd probably be done with the UFC too. I can def see a lot of Jr Hockey fans preferring those big scoring games and youngsters flying all over the place, kind of like the way many NCAA football fans hate the NFL because its slower and lower scoring.

  19. #3439
    Season Ticket Holder Hall of Famer Dubz's Avatar
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    When i visited the Joe most fans were concerned with how soft the Wings players are. They are used to players of the past that were willing to die for the game. I'd make a list but it would be too long. They have changed the team and now have to try to inject that rough edge back into the lineup. Its gonna be a bumpy ride i think.
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