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two24four
06-29-2016, 09:49 AM
Figured I'd start this with the new hockey year starting July 1st with free agency.

two24four
06-29-2016, 02:30 PM
Oilers traded Hall to NJ for Larsson. I'm guessing more to this.

Guessing Lucic will be an Oiler.

I would have tried to keep Hall out of RNH Eberle and Hall.

Edit: It's 1 for 1. Wow what are th Oilers doing.

Also the top 5 picks from the 2010 draft have all been traded now.

WIS
06-29-2016, 02:46 PM
Oilers traded Hall to NJ for Larsson. I'm guessing more to this.

Guessing Lucic will be an Oiler.

I would have tried to keep Hall out of RNH Eberle and Hall.

Edit: It's 1 for 1. Wow what are th Oilers doing.

Also the top 5 picks from the 2010 draft have all been traded now.
Chiarelli is a tool. Didn't he learn from the Seguin trade? Just because he hosed the Leafs doesn't mean he could do it again. Seems like karma here.

two24four
06-29-2016, 02:56 PM
Kypreos says Subban is going to NSH for Weber. Wow crazy!

WIS
06-29-2016, 02:56 PM
What the hell is going on!! If true, good on the Canadiens.

WIS
06-29-2016, 02:59 PM
Stamkos to remain in Tampa Bay.

two24four
06-29-2016, 02:59 PM
And McKenzie says Stamkos is staying is TB. Evertything is happening.

WIS
06-29-2016, 03:00 PM
July 1st will be :zzz:

two24four
06-29-2016, 03:03 PM
I am just glad Stamkos is not going to Buffalo.

WIS
06-29-2016, 03:04 PM
I am just glad Stamkos is not going to Buffalo.
:lol: or Detroit!

Subban for Weber straight up. Now we'll have to deal with the better defenceman.

WIS
06-29-2016, 03:12 PM
So Stamkos did take the 8 years @ 8.5. Interesting.

Hamsterkill
06-29-2016, 05:41 PM
What the hell is going on!! If true, good on the Canadiens.

I actually think Nashville makes out a little better. Weber is 30 and starting to slow down and signed for another 10 years. Subban is a little younger and can probably keep up better. Weber's a little cheaper on the cap, and better defensively, but Subban is significantly better on offense. It's close, but I would take Subban at this point in time.

boredguy
06-29-2016, 05:55 PM
What a crazy afternoon. I understand that Oilers had to overpay but that's still not a good trade. And i take Subban over Weber 10 times out of 10.

Dubz
06-29-2016, 06:18 PM
So Stamkos did take the 8 years @ 8.5. Interesting.


Now they can trade him to TO on a sign and trade deal :hahano:

Wow Montreal pulled off a sweet deal...from what ive read it will be cheaper for them to buy out Weber than PK. I also think he is a better player and team mate.

Hall for Larsson...hmmm. At first glance its a terrible trade for the Oil but considering that Hall is a crackhead disturbance in the room its a good deal (I cant believe people write this shit) On a more serious note im happy for Hall and think he will shine in NJ along with his buddy Adam. As for Larsson...who has played in that NJ system and put up decwent numbers will now have to somehow do that in the Oilers redzone LOLOLOLOL I simply dont see it happening. Heres a funny one i read over on SN


someone needs to tell Chiarelli that he got ADAM Larson not Oilver-Ekman LOLOL

Dubz
06-30-2016, 06:53 PM
Loui Eriksson and Adam Larsson for Hall and Seguin....pretty sure thats what it boils down to.

Kyle
06-30-2016, 08:00 PM
Are we really trying to paint the NJD as that team that Oilers players want to go to to put up better numbers? You realize we're talking about the NHL's 2nd worst offense the last 3 years? Hall has no reason to celebrate, and Larsson should have no trouble putting up the same/better numbers.

It just sounds exactly like everyone congratulating Eichel for dodging the Oilers bullet and going to Buffalo. The only offense worse than New Jersey the last 3 years. Sure enough that offense was still trash after O'Reily and Eichel arrived and Eichel was nowhere near as productive per game as McDavid on the Oilers (Which may have happened even if they swapped teams but it certainly discourages the idea that Buffalo is the superior place to put up numbers). I can't even somewhat fathom what improvement guys like Hall/Eichel are enjoying for being on the Sabres/Devils instead of the Oilers. I mean, at least Buffalo has a history to hang their hats on. New Jersey has ALWAYS been pathetic offensively and where is their next Scott Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur? He's not out there. That team's just gonna be a dweller for many years. Even when it was a place to win championships, you'd still dread being a star forward in NJ because you were never putting up numbers.

If we're talking about Hall, Eichel's chances to win a cup (Which are still almost null and void on their current Buffalo/NJ squads), yes those chances go up outside of Edmenton. But their personal success and statistical accolades? I just don't see how the utterly and completely worthless offenses those other teams offer are any sort of upgrade to Edmenton. They all suck, they're all places where stats go to die.

Kyle
06-30-2016, 08:14 PM
As side notes, incredibly dumb trade by Edmenton, and go Detroit on a brilliant salary dump.

As far as PK vs Webber goes, I think that's a trade that we as fans are very arrogant to call "good" or "bad." How disrespectful is it to either of these guys to call it a great trade? When is it ever a great thing to lose PK or Webber? The simple fact is, it's one of the ultimate 50/50 trades in sports history, these are two of the 3 best in the game at their position with NO clear consensus whatsoever as to who deserves to be ranked ahead. They are as equal as equal gets and its purely an intangibles swap and a hope for better chemistry from both teams.

Nashville gets the slightly higher ceiling, Montreal gets the more consistent defender. You will find some fans who think Weber is far better, others who think Subban is far better, but I think we're being arrogant to say this trade can't end up working out fantastically for both sides. And if it doesn't, it isn't because one of these two were way smarter than the other, its because they got plain lucky. WHich is why I'd never do a 50/50 swap like this as a GM, especially if I had the younger guy (Subban). We've seen 100% of what Webber has to offer and Subban might still have that extra notch, or at the very least as Hamster said more years in his prime.

Does anyone think the Habs had an issue with such a media-friendly superstar

Doctego
07-01-2016, 07:21 AM
Are we really trying to paint the NJD as that team that Oilers players want to go to to put up better numbers? You realize we're talking about the NHL's 2nd worst offense the last 3 years? Hall has no reason to celebrate, and Larsson should have no trouble putting up the same/better numbers.

It just sounds exactly like everyone congratulating Eichel for dodging the Oilers bullet and going to Buffalo. The only offense worse than New Jersey the last 3 years. Sure enough that offense was still trash after O'Reily and Eichel arrived and Eichel was nowhere near as productive per game as McDavid on the Oilers (Which may have happened even if they swapped teams but it certainly discourages the idea that Buffalo is the superior place to put up numbers). I can't even somewhat fathom what improvement guys like Hall/Eichel are enjoying for being on the Sabres/Devils instead of the Oilers. I mean, at least Buffalo has a history to hang their hats on. New Jersey has ALWAYS been pathetic offensively and where is their next Scott Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur? He's not out there. That team's just gonna be a dweller for many years. Even when it was a place to win championships, you'd still dread being a star forward in NJ because you were never putting up numbers.

If we're talking about Hall, Eichel's chances to win a cup (Which are still almost null and void on their current Buffalo/NJ squads), yes those chances go up outside of Edmenton. But their personal success and statistical accolades? I just don't see how the utterly and completely worthless offenses those other teams offer are any sort of upgrade to Edmenton. They all suck, they're all places where stats go to die.

You're really selling NJ's offense short from a historical perspective. Sure, they had a HOF goalie, the strength of their team was from the net out, and their reputation was defense, but their offense wasn't as bad as you might think. Parise had a few PPG years and they had a bunch of years where they were in the top third in goals for, some where they led the league in scoring. They didn't have a handful of guys with 80 points but they spread it out. It's easy to remember the 1-0 wins and their shutdown defense. This is also a new regime. Lou clearly liked to build a team concept. It seems like they want to play a more open game and they're trying to acquire players to do so.

Doctego
07-01-2016, 07:25 AM
As side notes, incredibly dumb trade by Edmenton, and go Detroit on a brilliant salary dump.

As far as PK vs Webber goes, I think that's a trade that we as fans are very arrogant to call "good" or "bad." How disrespectful is it to either of these guys to call it a great trade? When is it ever a great thing to lose PK or Webber? The simple fact is, it's one of the ultimate 50/50 trades in sports history, these are two of the 3 best in the game at their position with NO clear consensus whatsoever as to who deserves to be ranked ahead. They are as equal as equal gets and its purely an intangibles swap and a hope for better chemistry from both teams.

Nashville gets the slightly higher ceiling, Montreal gets the more consistent defender. You will find some fans who think Weber is far better, others who think Subban is far better, but I think we're being arrogant to say this trade can't end up working out fantastically for both sides. And if it doesn't, it isn't because one of these two were way smarter than the other, its because they got plain lucky. WHich is why I'd never do a 50/50 swap like this as a GM, especially if I had the younger guy (Subban). We've seen 100% of what Webber has to offer and Subban might still have that extra notch, or at the very least as Hamster said more years in his prime.

Does anyone think the Habs had an issue with such a media-friendly superstar

Most of the sane criticism that I've seen about the trade has to do with having to pay Weber for another 10 years until he's 40. That overshadows the slight cap savings on a yearly basis.

Hamsterkill
07-01-2016, 10:46 AM
Are we really trying to paint the NJD as that team that Oilers players want to go to to put up better numbers? You realize we're talking about the NHL's 2nd worst offense the last 3 years? Hall has no reason to celebrate, and Larsson should have no trouble putting up the same/better numbers.

It just sounds exactly like everyone congratulating Eichel for dodging the Oilers bullet and going to Buffalo. The only offense worse than New Jersey the last 3 years. Sure enough that offense was still trash after O'Reily and Eichel arrived and Eichel was nowhere near as productive per game as McDavid on the Oilers (Which may have happened even if they swapped teams but it certainly discourages the idea that Buffalo is the superior place to put up numbers). I can't even somewhat fathom what improvement guys like Hall/Eichel are enjoying for being on the Sabres/Devils instead of the Oilers. I mean, at least Buffalo has a history to hang their hats on. New Jersey has ALWAYS been pathetic offensively and where is their next Scott Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur? He's not out there. That team's just gonna be a dweller for many years. Even when it was a place to win championships, you'd still dread being a star forward in NJ because you were never putting up numbers.

If we're talking about Hall, Eichel's chances to win a cup (Which are still almost null and void on their current Buffalo/NJ squads), yes those chances go up outside of Edmenton. But their personal success and statistical accolades? I just don't see how the utterly and completely worthless offenses those other teams offer are any sort of upgrade to Edmenton. They all suck, they're all places where stats go to die.

Mostly because there's a pattern Edmonton has of ruining their top-flight prospects that NJ and BUF don't have. Gagner, Paajarvi, RNH, Yakupov... Even Hall, while successful, never really achieved the potential he was thought to have when he was drafted. In fact, if we consider the rookies to be too early to judge, only Eberle really can be considered to have met expectations for the Oilers since the 2001 draft, with Hall perhaps coming close at times. Even their deeper draft picks fail at an alarming rate.

O'Reilly had a career year, offensively, for the Sabres. Ditto for Kyle Palmieri in NJ. Eichel showed steady improvement as he adjusted to the NHL over the course of the year and was sheltered less and less. McDavid, meanwhile, suffered an extended injury for the second straight year. Can't necessarily blame that on the Oilers, but it's just how things seem to go for their prospects...

All that said, Hall clearly wanted to stay in Edmonton, though not out of any concern for his individual numbers. He wanted to finish what he started in turning the Oilers fortunes around after having invested so much time and effort into that goal. I think he'll do incredible in Jersey.

Kyle
07-01-2016, 11:37 AM
I wasn't implying that O'Reilly/Eichel had bad years. Simply that it didn't turn the Sabres into a good team or even a decent one. And so it only goes as far as you can guarantee someone will play with those two guys, because on the other 3 lines, you're playing for one of the worst teams imaginable. Oilers can offer anyone the same treat on the top line, if not much more-so with McDavid and Eberle. Plenty of players have had plenty of good seasons on their top line over these miserable years. We still call them a shitty team and a miserable offense because a few guys scoring 70+ pts doesn't change how weak the team is through all 4 lines. For the most part, that's criticism fits Buffalo/NJ exactly, simply not to the same extents some years. Right now, it fits just fine to me.

Doc, fair enough on NJ's offense historically, but I still stand by what they are today.

Either way, I don't think upgrading from the worst offense to the 2nd/3rd worse offense makes anyone happy about their chances to "shine" individually. Which was basically what the crux of my argument was in response to. The Devils are better, Hall's chances to win a cup are better, but his chances to shine? Not at all. There's nothing wrong with being in a system that discourages star seasons. Detroit won many years with that system. But you certainly wouldn't say that system promotes an individual's chances to shine. Players that came to Detroit during those years typically had among their career's lowest production. A lot of them just capped off their resumes with a cup while letting their stints on other teams speak louder of their talent. Nidermayer's best two seasons came at age 33/34 on the Ducks. Who knows what kind of seasons he could've had in his prime on any other team but the Devils and that trap system.

Nothing wrong with those teams where stats go to die. They lift banners perfectly often, but players don't shine nor does their brand/salary tend to benefit.

I won't argue a point about their bad fortune. That is what it is, I don't believe in luck. And I think the McDavid mention was a touch on the cheap side, because he worked out just fine his rookie year and has clearly already emerged to be a player of a caliber that the Devils or Sabres couldn't dream of having on their roster right now. His half season almost out-produced Eichel's full year so I really think you had to reach miles and miles to use that as an example of why prospects don't work for Edmenton. It would be far easier to use McDavid as a sign of positive things to come.

Doctego
07-01-2016, 11:50 AM
Mostly because there's a pattern Edmonton has of ruining their top-flight prospects that NJ and BUF don't have. Gagner, Paajarvi, RNH, Yakupov... Even Hall, while successful, never really achieved the potential he was thought to have when he was drafted.

Do you think that's the fault of Edmonton not developing the players or do you think that the players weren't as good as advertised? Maybe somewhere in the middle? Talent often eventually shows up and a lot of those players just don't look as good as we thought.

Kyle
07-01-2016, 12:12 PM
I think he'll do incredible in Jersey.


Why? :lol: He goes from a line with McDavid and Eberle to Henrique/Palmieri and you're using phrases like "He'll do incredible" and "he'll shine." Are we being serious or is the general consensus that any move away from Edmenton has to work out positively in every way? You even go as far as implying Hall is a bust/letdown which is just completely outrageous to me. His per game paces are top 10 among active players since he joined the league and is probably more like top 5 since his 2nd year. He struggles to stay healthy, are we attacking Edmenton's team nutritionist now? You can spit that whole bit about "not quite as good as people hoped" in regards to an endless list of the top prospects over the last 15 years. All the top offensive guys coming out the last 10-15 years haven't put up the kind of seasons we envisioned they would coming into the league. Literally EVERY one of them except Ovechkin/Crosby have failed to hit the kind of offensive marks we hoped for as they got drafted top 3. Doesn't make them (or Hall) busts, it simply makes us responsible for adjusting our standards relative to the decreased production around the league.

Hall is a top 10-15 offensive player when healthy, nothing else needs to be said about the guy to say he worked out just fine, not debatable at all to me. I don't recall anybody saying Hall was supposed to be the next Gretzky. He did not have Crosby/Ovy/McDavid level hype going into his draft. More like a Tavares/Kane level talent and he has certainly emerged to be that good despite the shit surrounding him in Edmenton.

Kyle
07-01-2016, 12:25 PM
Do you think that's the fault of Edmonton not developing the players or do you think that the players weren't as good as advertised? Maybe somewhere in the middle? Talent often eventually shows up and a lot of those players just don't look as good as we thought.

Honestly, I don't recall people calling most of those picks mistakes at the time. Obviously the trend has commonly been they don't try hard enough to find D-men but besides that, most of the picks that haven't worked out seemed perfectly appropriate at the time. To me, its just players not working out, but you can't count out a losing culture and how much it hurts motivation.

FWIW, I firmly believe teams can only slow down or speed up a player towards reaching their potential. There's little a team can do to turn some would-be star into a bust. That's on a player.

Dubz
07-01-2016, 12:35 PM
Admitting Hall had decent players in EDM is one thing....trying to say he will not put up #s in NJ because the linemates arent as good/the system isnt the same (what fucking system do they play in EDM anyways) is ridick imo. He is uber talented, will play top minutes and PP1. His numbers wont suffer much if at all. But i guess we will see. My point is Larsson will have a harder time keeping his numbers up than will Hall.

Hamsterkill
07-01-2016, 12:37 PM
I wasn't implying that O'Reilly/Eichel had bad years. Simply that it didn't turn the Sabres into a good team or even a decent one. And so it only goes as far as you can guarantee someone will play with those two guys, because on the other 3 lines, you're playing for one of the worst teams imaginable.
Eichel and O'Reilly played separate lines.


I won't argue a point about their bad fortune. That is what it is, I don't believe in luck. And I think the McDavid mention was a touch on the cheap side, because he worked out just fine his rookie year and has clearly already emerged to be a player of a caliber that the Devils or Sabres couldn't dream of having on their roster right now. His half season almost out-produced Eichel's full year so I really think you had to reach miles and miles to use that as an example of why prospects don't work for Edmenton. It would be far easier to use McDavid as a sign of positive things to come.

I was merely pointing out the pattern. Some of that may be luck, but the pattern is lengthy enough for me to believe the Oilers also just suck at developing their players.


Why? Honestly, what even begins to support this notion? :lol: He goes from a line with McDavid and Eberle to Henrique/Palmieri and you're using phrases like "He'll do incredible" and "he'll shine." Is anyone even trying to be objective or is the general consensus that any move away from Edmenton has to work out positively in every way? Silliness. You even go as far as implying Hall is a bust/letdown which is just completely outrageous to me. His per game paces are top 10 among active players since he joined the league and is probably more like top 5 since his 2nd year. He struggles to stay healthy, are we attacking Edmenton's team nutritionist now?
Honestly? Maybe. I think there has to be something they're doing wrong with their kids.

Hall has never been in the Top 5 for PPG in any season he's played. He's been top-10 twice. The last two years he finished 37 and 68. Team Canada has also not selected him to any Olympics teams or the upcoming World Cup.

You have to account for how a team is trending. Jersey is looking like a team on the rise. Buffalo is looking like a team on the rise. Edmonton is not, despite McDavid. Henrique is also a player Hall enjoyed much success with in Junior.


Do you think that's the fault of Edmonton not developing the players or do you think that the players weren't as good as advertised? Maybe somewhere in the middle? Talent often eventually shows up and a lot of those players just don't look as good as we thought.
Probably a mix. Sure some players are just busts, but the pattern is so long and runs so deep in their drafts for Edmonton that I have trouble believing they don't have a hand in it.

Kyle
07-01-2016, 12:40 PM
Let's see a healthy season from McDavid, another draft class added to their roster (Okay, even I laughed a bit typing that), another year of development, and see if the Oilers are on the rise or not. We can't say McDavid wasn't enough just yet.


but the pattern is so long and runs so deep in their drafts for Edmonton that I have trouble believing they don't have a hand in it.

This is the hardest point for me to argue against. It's become either a statistical miracle or clear evidence that they're doing something awfully wrong.

Doctego
07-01-2016, 01:10 PM
My question was referring to someone like Daigle, who was clearly a bust. Chances are that they didn't draft Daigle all of those years in a row, though.

Doctego
07-01-2016, 01:22 PM
Here are some signings:

EDIT: Just go here:

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/nhl-free-agent-tracker-instant-analysis-on-day-1s-biggest-signings/

Kyle
07-01-2016, 01:25 PM
Wow. Radulov to the Habs eh. Really wanted Detroit to get him. Its 5.75m, 1 year, btw.

Detroit reportedly were only willing to offer 5m. And yet they just extended Darren Helm at 4m/year and 5.25 for Nielson. I like Radulov quite a bit more than both, despite the risk he carries.

Doctego
07-01-2016, 09:16 PM
I think that Neilson will be a pleasant surprise for you in Detroit. He does everything well and is a Wings type of player. The only thing that I don't like is the term. They'll be paying him until he's 38. Vanek is a low risk/high reward signing as well.

two24four
07-02-2016, 08:12 AM
Happy for Reimer but I don't get that signing for FLA. Wonder if they plan on protecting Reimer and not Luongo next summer.

Not sure what the Habs are doing signing Radulov.

No one will want to go near McDavid with Lucic, Kassian and Maroon not far.

Dubz
07-02-2016, 10:00 AM
No one will want to go near McDavid with Lucic, Kassian and Maroon not far.

Unless you play for Philthy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXGHW9OcNoA

b_illin
07-04-2016, 05:23 PM
My tardy thoughts:

- NJ stole Hall from EDM!
- I'm a bit sad to see Stamkos not sign with the Leafs, BUT I think it is for the best AND big props to him for taking a significant discount to stay in Tampa. Dude is a class act!
- I like this deal for MTL more than NSH. Weber gives them SO many things they need right now and can hopefully take the reigns in the locker room.
- I had more thoughts but I've forgotten them plus they'd be stale by now anyway!

Kyle
07-07-2016, 02:56 PM
Happy for Reimer but I don't get that signing for FLA. Wonder if they plan on protecting Reimer and not Luongo next summer.

Not sure what the Habs are doing signing Radulov.

No one will want to go near McDavid with Lucic, Kassian and Maroon not far.

What are you unsure of? Just curious. Personally, I don't understand why so many fans are so unhappy about the Radulov signing. And it's almost all limited to Habs fans and their counterpart Habs-haters who simply enjoy any opportunity to suggest the Habs are poorly managed. But, I think its all silly and I don't know how anybody doesn't see it as a clearly positive move for the Habs. The overwhelming majority of opinions I read on this are extremely positive. The Habs made a great deal for their 2017 cup chances.

Firstly, people won't forget about the missed curfew. Who cares? It was way too long ago to act like that's something that we need to hold against him now. All the reports are he's made tons of positive changes over the last four years. To me, Radulov is not "low risk" he's "zero risk." The very worst he can do is play poor hockey and the Habs can move right on from his harmless contract.

Secondly, people insist on packaging Radulov's deal with Subbans. I think there's a lingering negative perception of MTL's management stemming from the Subban deal and people are having trouble putting it aside and congratulating the Habs for WINNING Radulov (Not just signing him - they flat out won him over many disappointed teams).

Third, there was nothing else to spend any of that cash on. They objectively got the very most talent 6 million could've bought any team from any player remaining in free agency.

What's the problem? Radulov was one of the top free agents available, and they got him at a relative bargain on an extremely team-friendly contract term.

Hamsterkill
07-08-2016, 03:54 PM
If the Sabres somehow do manage to entice Vesey sign with them, I could see them attempting to find Kane a new home after his baggage seemed to get even heavier after arriving from Winnipeg.

Doctego
07-08-2016, 04:15 PM
If the Sabres somehow do manage to entice Vesey sign with them, I could see them attempting to find Kane a new home after his baggage seemed to get even heavier after arriving from Winnipeg.

Regardless of whether they sign Vesey, I think that they'd love to trade Kane.

Hamsterkill
07-08-2016, 04:20 PM
Regardless of whether they sign Vesey, I think that they'd love to trade Kane.

Well, yeah... but without Vesey it might be harder to let him go since they'd be left pretty shallow on the left wing.

two24four
07-11-2016, 02:48 PM
So Matt Carkner retired from pro hockey. Most won't blink an eye at that, but I went to school with Matt and got to know him. He's one of the nicest people you could ever meet. Always willing to do anything for anyone. Great team guy as well. Also one of the toughest in pro hockey the last 15 years. I will never forget his last season in the OHL, no one wanted to fight him. Sounds like he's going to be on the coaching staff of the Bridgeport Sound Tigers of the AHL this season.

I was so torn when he and Orr had their tilts with each other in the battle of Ontario.

Hamsterkill
07-12-2016, 01:47 PM
Would've been nice to at least hear O'Reilly's story of events around the DUI. Just having the charges dropped is a bit unsatisfying...

two24four
07-12-2016, 06:09 PM
Sounds like George McPhee will be the GM of the new Las Vegas team.

WIS
07-18-2016, 02:13 PM
NYR dealt one of their leading scorers, center Derick Brassard (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nhl/2043/derick-brassard), to Ottawa, for center Mika Zibanejad (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nhl/3678/mika-zibanejad) and a second-round draft pick in 2018. (The Senators also received a seventh-round draft pick in 2018.)

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/07/18/trade-rangers-send-brassard-to-ottawa-for-zibanejad/

Dubz
07-18-2016, 08:20 PM
The rangers still got it.

boredguy
08-11-2016, 06:45 PM
So Roy quits as head coach and VP, gotta say this is probably good for the Avs. Loved Roy as a goalie but his coaching sucks.

two24four
08-12-2016, 09:31 AM
It seems he wants to have a say in everything. In Jr he was the coach, GM and owner which you can get away with at that level. Just does not work that way in the NHL though. John Shannon says Roy and Sakic have not been on the same page for awhile.

Dubz
08-12-2016, 11:48 AM
That sucks, im glad he gave it go in the bigs. I have to agree with BG however

Hamsterkill
10-04-2016, 02:01 PM
Just read that Cody Hodgson is retiring at 26. Wow. I really thought he would make a few more tries at it. He really looked good during the lockout season.

two24four
10-05-2016, 03:51 PM
Just read that Cody Hodgson is retiring at 26. Wow. I really thought he would make a few more tries at it. He really looked good during the lockout season.

Crazy. You would think teams in Europe would sign him.

WIS
10-07-2016, 06:57 PM
What a return for Yakupov. I personally wouldn't have settled for that, but his value was at an all-time low.

Hamsterkill
10-07-2016, 07:20 PM
What a return for Yakupov. I personally wouldn't have settled for that, but his value was at an all-time low.

It's not *that* surprising... Though I'm sure Edmonton fought (unsuccessfully) to make the pick a 2nd rounder without conditions. His value wasn't going to improve with the Oilers roster the east it is, though.

EDIT: Most surprising thing might that the Blues were the high bidder. I would've thought the Pens would try to rehab his value at that price.

Hamsterkill
10-10-2016, 11:55 AM
Surprised to see Parenteau get waived. Not so surprised to see Pavelec get waived.

two24four
10-10-2016, 01:30 PM
Crosby has another concussion. Sounds like he got it Friday at practice. Not good.

two24four
10-10-2016, 01:57 PM
The NHL is getting younger and younger every year.

Looks like ARI is starting the season with D. Strome, Chychrun, Crouse and Dvorak. Flyers are starting with Provorov and Konecny. Leafs with Matthews, Marner, Hyman Nylander, Brown. Jets with Laine, Connor, Ehlers, Hellebuyck. Isles with Barzal and Beauvillier. Falmes with Tkachuk etc....

The Sarnia Sting of the OHL look like they might be losing Chychrun, Zacha and Konecny all in the same year when they all could go back to Jr. That was suppose to be their core this season. Fans in Sarnia must be going nuts.

Seems every year more and more 30 something year olds get pushed out for the younger players. Remember when teams used to build around 33-38 year olds? Not anymore.

Dubz
10-10-2016, 05:13 PM
Lost Crosby and Huberdeau on my fantasy team and we havent played a game yet. :wtf:

boredguy
10-10-2016, 06:12 PM
Surprised Gaudreau caved on salary, 6 years $6.75m per, deserves a good bit more than that.

Hamsterkill
10-10-2016, 10:48 PM
Yeah, I would have expected a bridge deal if CGY wasn't going to give 7m+.

two24four
10-11-2016, 10:29 AM
Predictions.

Art Ross- McDavid. (Was going to go Crosby.... but who knows how much time he may miss. If McDavid stays healthy he should get 100(+) points)
Hart- McDavid if Edmonton makes playoffs. Price if Edmonton doesn't make it.
Maurice Richard- Ovechkin
Selke- Bergeron
Lady Byng- Gaudreau
Norris- Subban
Vezina- Price
Calder- Matthews
Jack Adams- Cooper

Stanley Cup: Tampa Bay over St. Louis
Conn Smythe- Stamkos

boredguy
10-11-2016, 01:18 PM
Art Ross- Marner
Hart- Matthews
Maurice Richard- Nylander
Selke- JVR
Lady Byng- Komarov
Norris- Zaitsev
Vezina- Sparks
Calder- Leivo
Jack Adams- Babcock

Stanley Cup: Toronto over Toronto
Conn Smythe- Hunwick

two24four
10-11-2016, 01:19 PM
Uncle Leo for the Hart come on.

Hamsterkill
10-11-2016, 02:44 PM
Ristolainen finally signed. 6 years at 5.4 per. Good deal for Buffalo since he probably wouldn't have been worth what he was asking. I'm guessing this probably means he won't be moved in a trade for Trouba now, though.

boredguy
10-11-2016, 04:11 PM
Always was 0 chance of a Trouba/Risto trade. Really good deal for Sabres though.

Doesn't compare to Kuch at 4.76 though, only 3 seasons but that's insane.

Interesting that all the big RFA's that were holding out are caving and the teams are winning.

chgorman
01-01-2017, 09:44 AM
Anybody heading to the Centennial Classic at BMO Field in Toronto today? My brother and I are heading down. Won't compare to the Winter Classic at The Big House that we attended a few yrs ago, but should still be a good time.

Dubz
01-01-2017, 11:17 AM
You are luckyx2, have fun Gorms. Better leave your red and white shit at home lol

Happy New Years

two24four
01-01-2017, 11:32 AM
No going to watch from home then head down to the Petes OHL game.

Still plenty of good tickets left for the Centennial Classic today. Yesterday's alumni game was not full either. Toronto sports has had so many big sporting events come through town this past year...Blue Jays playoffs (+ most regular season home game were sold out), Raps playoffs, World Cup of hockey, World Jr's, MLS Cup, Grey Cup and now the Centennial Classic. I think people are starting to pick and choose what they spend their $$ on. A lot of World Jr games didn't sell out either.

Edit: I see the game is being delayed 30 mins because of sunlight. Start time is now 3:30.

two24four
01-01-2017, 04:34 PM
Must have sold some tickets today. Looks like a nice crowd. Good to see.

chgorman
01-02-2017, 11:37 AM
Yeah, it was a solid crowd. Good people too. Had lots of good chats with fans from both teams, aside from the Leafs fan sitting beside me who thinks Mathews is the best player in the world and Freddy A is the best goalie in the world. Couldn't take him seriously after he said that.

First 2 periods were pretty boring, crowd was pretty quiet, but that 3rd was awesome. Great battle by both teams in the 3rd.

Overall atmosphere wasn't comparable to the game at The Big House but still a good time.

Doctego
01-02-2017, 12:11 PM
Was the ice as bad as it looked on TV? I was beginning to think about how ugly a shootout would have been on that ice.

two24four
01-02-2017, 12:45 PM
Players all said it was the best outdoor ice they have skated on. The ones who played in the game at the Big House said it was better at BMO.

chgorman
01-02-2017, 12:45 PM
The ice seemed pretty snowy but I was sitting pretty far away so didn't have the best view.

I know beforehand the players were raving about how good the ice was but I imagine it was pretty hard and possibly a bit chippy, since it was right around 0 degrees (celsius) or colder for most of the game.

I imagine they would have cleared the ice a bit had it gone to the shootout, but can't say for sure.

two24four
01-13-2017, 10:57 AM
Nice to see Eric Staal having a good season with Minny. I think things just got stale for him in Carolina. I've watched him play since he was a 5'9 150 lbs 15 year old rookie with the Petes in the OHL. He came back for his 2nd OHL season at about 6'2 170 lbs and everyone was like ok he's true NHL prospect now. To this day I still have never seen the rink so full of scouts as it was when Oshawa and Peterborough played vs each other back then. Nathan Horton played for Oshawa, Eric Staal for Peterborough.

two24four
01-28-2017, 12:11 AM
I get that picking the NHL's top 100 players of all time is very tough...but I would have had Hawerchuk and Thornton on my list. Others who I would've liked on the list were Iginla and Malkin. Might be biased with this one but Gilmour as well.

Kyle
01-28-2017, 04:50 PM
I can excuse Malkin being left off because he's missed so many games and hasn't had a very long career. As great as his career has been, clearly being the third best offensive player of the last 10-12 years behind Crosby/Ovy, he's not some heinous omission. If this was five years later he'd have enough mileage (Hopefully, health permitting) to make an easier case but at 700 games played, I guess I get it. Somewhat though, because his playoff performances have been awesome too. I'd have put him in, but like I said, I get it .

Zetterberg and Weber didn't make the cut either. Stamkos too but he's been such a health issue. Backstrom as well could've made his case, maybe if the Caps had a cup to their name, oh well.

Iginla is more glaring than Malkin. 600 goals and not in the NHL top 100? That's a little silly to me.

Thornton I'm glad didn't make it. I know you've always been one of his biggest fans and I have nothing but respect but I don't feel he's a top 100 guy. I think he's as good as you can possibly be for an NHL career without being flat-out great and that list is pretty much packed with greatness. Even his PPG is only 8th most among active players and for a guy who's entire career resume sums up as "stats stuffer who never got it done when it mattered" you'd really expect him to be a bit more of an offensive standout. He's barely ahead of Getzlaf and Spezza. Really good players, but one has played a lot more relevant games in a shorter career and the other nobody would ever consider for a top-100 spot (Although I really like Spezza).

In order the names I would've tried to include most are: Howerchuck, Iginla, Malkin, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Thornton. Only the first 2 offend me though.

Howerchuck being left off is shocking to me. You can't find one guy to make room for a guy who reached 1299 pts in just 13 seasons. Don't care what anyone else was doing in the 80's, he still stands out.

Doctego
01-28-2017, 05:19 PM
Aren't we talking about the top 100 of all-time? If so, I have no issue with guys like Zetterberg, Thornton, Malkin, and Backstrom being left off. Somebody always misses the cut. I consider them great players in their own right, but not all-time greats when I think of the history of the league. We tend to focus on what we see and recent history always takes precedence, but the league has been around for a long time.

Kyle
01-28-2017, 05:51 PM
Heard that, Doc. Just felt like throwing out the rest of the "maybes" for this generation. Maybe add Weber?

Like I said, only Iginla/Howerchuck blatantly offends my common sense.

You're 100% right on recent history swaying people's opinions heavily, though.

Hamsterkill
01-28-2017, 08:24 PM
Hawerchuk, Iginla and St. Louis are the ones I'd most like to add that I can think of right now.

EDIT: Actually, maybe not St. Louis. I may have rose-colored glasses on him.

EDIT2: On return to the question, Joe Mullen and (despite not being in the HoF) Pierre Turgeon feel like they could be on the list too.

Kyle
01-28-2017, 09:43 PM
I missed St Louis. I definitely would've had him in there or at least had to think hard about not putting him in.

two24four
01-28-2017, 10:05 PM
I wouldn't have had the three current Blackhawks on the list, not yet anyways. For current players I would have had Crosby, Ovie, Jagr, Thornton, Malkin and Iginla.

I admit I'm biased when it comes to Thornton but man you cant deny what he's done. He's 8 assists away from being just the 13th player in NHL history with 1000 assists. He's also the reason Cheechoo scored 56 goals in 05-06. Thornton should have been the co winner of the Rocket that year. Without Thornton Cheechoo doesn't win that. Thornton is also 24th in points all time with a chance to move up even higher this season. He has a chance to be a 400-1000-1400-1200 player very soon. Although his goal scoring is getting lower and lower every season. He doesn't have a Cup but neither do a few others on the list.

Hamsterkill
01-28-2017, 10:14 PM
I wouldn't have had the three current Blackhawks on the list, not yet anyways. For current players I would have had Crosby, Ovie, Jagr, Thornton, Malkin and Iginla.

Keith would be tough for me to keep off, given the double Norris. I agree on Toews and Kane, though.

Doctego
01-29-2017, 10:30 AM
Maybe I'm just a tougher judge. I think of how many great players have come through the league. I think of how many NHL players are in the HHOF. The league has been around forever. When I think of the NHL Top 100, I think of the best of the best players ever. As I said before, we tend to overvalue players that are fresh in our minds. We can also overvalue players that we grew up with as kids, for that matter. Either way, I don't consider a lot of the players mentioned in this thread as the best of the best. Currently or in their era? Sure. All-time? No way. No matter what the list, there's always someone that would have been next (101).

Has anyone seen a breakdown of how many were named at each position (F, D, and G)?

two24four
01-29-2017, 10:40 AM
15 Goalies.
64 Forwards
21 D-men

Doctego
01-29-2017, 11:22 AM
Thanks. I know it's not as simple as this, but I have no problem with someone like Keith being left off of a list of the top 21 D of all-time.

two24four
01-29-2017, 11:31 AM
Agreed. The NHL has a huge hardon for the current Blackhawks though.

Hamsterkill
01-29-2017, 01:33 PM
Truthfully, I think Keith has just as much claim to be there as Scott Stevens or Scott Niedermayer do. He's already done enough to be HoF-bound.

And there is going to be a recency bias if you're not going to be talking about "in their era" great. The fact is, hockey players are probably way better in general now than they were in classical times.

Doctego
01-29-2017, 02:28 PM
There's a recency bias regardless of whether we add a disclaimer. We have replay clips at our fingertips and get inundated with highlights constantly. I bet that there are a lot of kids out there that think that McDavid is already one of the best players ever because that's all they know.

two24four
01-29-2017, 02:33 PM
It's true. My oldest thinks Auston Matthews is the best ever. He was waiting to see Matthews the other night in the top 100 even after I told him he wont be on the list.

Kyle
01-29-2017, 07:50 PM
In fairness guys, as Hamster pointed out, people simply get more athletic over time. Technology and medical science moves forward, not back. It's silly to deny that a ton of our classic greats wouldn't have impacted today's NHL. If you want to call that conjecture, I can't argue, but the eye test doesn't lie and I think people are insane to deny that NHLers today are clearly far better than before. A major reason classic greats were able to be so great was lack of competition.

Duncan Keith would flat-out wipe the floor with at least half the D-men in NHL history who have scored 80 pts in a season before. Whether people want to hear it or not, if he played in wide open rinks in the 80's vs goalies with twigs over their legs that always stayed standing up, Keith would be an easy 80-100 pt guy in addition to a dominant defensive presence.

Keith is every bit as good/better than guys like Rob Blake and Larry Murphy.

Kyle
01-29-2017, 08:09 PM
BTW Doc, while I agree with you that recency bias plays a part, the more I think of it, old school bias exists as much as recency bias. People force themselves to remember past greats with such high regards and continually insist that they're among the best the sports ever seen when they usually aren't. The NFL is a major victim of this - outside of like 5 RBs and a good bit of defensive players who were probably ahead of the curve on PED abuse, almost everyone who played before 1980 was fucking garbage. The Quarterbacks especially were horse shit with or without the new rules today. Embarrassing mechanics, lame duck wobbly throws, no ability to read defenses. Unitas, Bradshaw, these guys are so vastly inferior to current QBs and get places on all time lists ahead of Aaron Rodgers because people can't let it go.

NHL is no different. We have so many stat-stuffers that cropped up in the 70's/80's, so many defenders who never once earned a reputation for actually defending their zone and simply aren't as good as guys like Keith and Weber. But they get remembered so fondly that it might be impossible to ever push them down the list. The NHL is a really major victim of old school bias because the league was built in a way that encouraged such superior stats in the 70's/80's. Guys today are clearly better but can't build a comparable resume.

I also think Karlsson is at max 2 seasons away from this list. A 1980's like PPG pace from a 25m+ defender over 500-600 games in the same era where Norris winners average 50 pts? More than enough.

Hamsterkill
01-29-2017, 10:58 PM
The only thing Karlsson's missing is any kind of championship that the HoF and "all-time great" lists seem to need. He, too, has the double Norris to his name, and probably should have had one more. I still would like to see Joe Mullen there first, though

Kyle
01-31-2017, 11:34 PM
:lol: The Wings might finish last in their conference with over 80 pts this year.

two24four
02-01-2017, 10:52 AM
This isn't the year to have a top pick either. It's a weak draft. No McDavid, Matthews, Laine, Echiel, Stamkos, Tavares etc...in this draft. As Bob McKenzie said the top rated player for this draft is Nolan Patrick who was born 4 days past the cut off for last years draft. He most likely wouldn't have been drafted in the last draft till about 5th overall. He's a tier below those types of players. Nico Hischier is also giving him a run for 1st overall. If you want goals Owen Tippett is who you want this year, he should go around 5th or 6th overall.

Could see more movement of 1st round picks before the draft because of it being weaker.

Kyle
02-01-2017, 04:36 PM
Right on. Thats disappointing. But the bright side (At least for Wings and Avs fans) is neither team is due for a turnaround just yet and can easily get the same pick again next year. The Wings might even get worse as their best player (Zetterberg) continues to dwindle.

Dubz
02-02-2017, 07:11 PM
This isn't the year to have a top pick either. It's a weak draft. No McDavid, Matthews, Laine, Echiel, Stamkos, Tavares etc...in this draft. As Bob McKenzie said the top rated player for this draft is Nolan Patrick who was born 4 days past the cut off for last years draft. He most likely wouldn't have been drafted in the last draft till about 5th overall. He's a tier below those types of players. Nico Hischier is also giving him a run for 1st overall. If you want goals Owen Tippett is who you want this year, he should go around 5th or 6th overall.

Could see more movement of 1st round picks before the draft because of it being weaker.

Also the Vegas Knights may want to pick up some draftees or trade some picks for players.

two24four
02-03-2017, 02:23 PM
Yeah I saw the other day that Vegas can make trades at this deadline. All they have right now is draft picks, I'm guessing they can't trade for NHL players yet during the season. I would think it would have to be for prospects and picks only till the season is over.

Hamsterkill
02-03-2017, 02:33 PM
Yeah I saw the other day that Vegas can make trades at this deadline. All they have right now is draft picks, I'm guessing they can't trade for NHL players yet during the season. I would think it would have to be for prospects and picks only till the season is over.

Yes, though they can also apparently make deals involving the expansion draft, though I don't know what those deals would look like.

two24four
02-03-2017, 02:41 PM
Yes, though they can also apparently make deals involving the expansion draft, though I don't know what those deals would look like.

The insiders on TSN have talked about this. It sounds like if a team doesn't want Vegas to take a player from them like say the Pens who may want to keep both Murray/Fleury, they can trade a pick to Vegas so they don't take any of their players in the expansion draft if Vegas wants to do that.

Hamsterkill
02-23-2017, 01:41 PM
Man, a 2nd rounder seems like a high price for Ron Hainsey -- even a half-priced Ron Hainsey. Pens must really have deep concerns about their defensive depth now. Doesn't reflect well on their on confidence in Pouliot being capable at the NHL level, either.

WIS
02-26-2017, 06:41 PM
Ben Bishop to LA.

Doctego
02-26-2017, 07:28 PM
Ben Bishop to LA.


Why the fuck would LA do that? They just got Quick back and Budaj has been great this season.

WIS
02-26-2017, 07:41 PM
Why the fuck would LA do that? They just got Quick back and Budaj has been great this season.

Was watching the Hot Stove and guys like Kypreos and Friedman were saying it's insurance IF Quick were to go down in the playoffs so that they have an experienced backup.

WIS
02-26-2017, 07:42 PM
Hanzal to Minnesota. Thought maybe he'd being going to the Canadiens who could use a Centre. It really showed against the Leafs.

1st in the deal going to Arizona.

two24four
02-26-2017, 09:12 PM
LA must think Quick could miss time again.

This is the year to trade 1st's if you have to.

Rocklobster
02-26-2017, 09:29 PM
"hey Budaj, thank you so much for saving our butts this year... now we are going to trade you to tampa"

I don't get it. LA wants some insurance for the playoffs with Bishop? the guy who has missed time to injury in the last 2 playoffs?:lol:

Tampa even retained 20% and they got nothing really for Bishop. Very strange trade to me

two24four
02-26-2017, 09:51 PM
It doesn't help that Bishop is a UFA in July. I think TB just wanted to get something back for him. Maybe they really like Erik Cernak the prospect they got. He's a big d-man who plays for Erie in the OHL right now.

WIS
02-27-2017, 01:57 AM
It doesn't help that Bishop is a UFA in July. I think TB just wanted to get something back for him. Maybe they really like Erik Cernak the prospect they got. He's a big d-man who plays for Erie in the OHL right now.

They were only able to save one goalie to the expansion team so they were sticking with Vasilevsky.

Doctego
02-27-2017, 05:50 AM
Was watching the Hot Stove and guys like Kypreos and Friedman were saying it's insurance IF Quick were to go down in the playoffs so that they have an experienced backup.

I get that, but it still makes no sense to me. They have zero chance without Quick. I'm also not convinced that their chances would go up this year with Bishop over Budaj if Quick reinjured himself.

two24four
02-27-2017, 10:23 AM
Maybe this is their way of keeping Bishop away from other teams they are going against for the rest of this season. Maybe they thought the Blues, Jets, Flames or Ducks might try to get him. Who knows.

Dubz
02-27-2017, 01:50 PM
Maybe this is their way of keeping Bishop away from other teams they are going against for the rest of this season. Maybe they thought the Blues, Jets, Flames or Ducks might try to get him. Who knows.

Thats part of it for sure, i thought the flames or possibly the Jets would be in on this one. I guess the Kings could trade away Bishop in the OS as well and pretty much recoup any/all of what they paid.

phaneuf6
02-27-2017, 05:45 PM
Look for Tyler Johnson to be moved if the opportunity arises. Palat extension talks ongoing... 7x$5 tabled, counter is 7x$7. Likely they meet in middle.

two24four
02-27-2017, 09:58 PM
Insiders are saying Shattenkirk to the Caps for a 1st, 2nd and Sanford.

My goodness the Caps are stacked. Can they finally go far in the playoffs?

WIS
02-27-2017, 10:14 PM
Insiders are saying Shattenkirk to the Caps for a 1st, 2nd and Sanford.

My goodness the Caps are stacked. Can they finally go far in the playoffs?
It's their time.

Kyle
02-28-2017, 06:56 AM
Washington is a flat out powerhouse but they're firmly entrenched in SJ Sharks status AKA its never their time. We're well past the point of actually predicting a deep run by Washington. They find unique ways to get in their own way and I don't see Shattenkirk fixing it.


This might be what, their 4th, 5th presidents under Ovechkin? Haven't made it to round 3 yet, not banking on it now. Two of those trophies were won with a double digit points lead ahead of 2nd place in the NHL. The Caps choke.

two24four
02-28-2017, 09:24 AM
It's their time.

They better hope so. It's Cup or bust for them. Getting past the 2nd round hasn't been easy for them.

That roster isn't getting any younger. One good thing for them prospect wise is with all the trades they've made they've held onto goalie prospect Ilya Samsonov.

Hamsterkill
02-28-2017, 07:49 PM
Washington is a flat out powerhouse but they're firmly entrenched in SJ Sharks status AKA its never their time. We're well past the point of actually predicting a deep run by Washington. They find unique ways to get in their own way and I don't see Shattenkirk fixing it.


This might be what, their 4th, 5th presidents under Ovechkin? Haven't made it to round 3 yet, not banking on it now. Two of those trophies were won with a double digit points lead ahead of 2nd place in the NHL. The Caps choke.
3rd actually. The issue is that they can never get past the Pens in the playoffs, whom they almost always have to play against.

WIS
02-28-2017, 08:37 PM
Desharnais to the Oilers. Interesting.

Doctego
02-28-2017, 09:03 PM
Is it pretty much safe to say that Bishop is dropable at this point?

Rocklobster
03-01-2017, 12:57 AM
No I do not think so, I think they play a bunch of back to back games down the stretch

Doctego
03-01-2017, 05:39 AM
No I do not think so, I think they play a bunch of back to back games down the stretch

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I should be more specific. I'm in a small $$ league and have Jones and Talbot as my top 2 right now. Bishop is my #3, but Greiss is on the WW. It looks like the Kings only have 3 B2B games the rest of the way.

Jake
03-01-2017, 09:02 AM
Odd question that I didn't know the answer to and am hoping somebody here will- what happens if the Pens add a NMC to Murray? I know MAF has one too, but i they were to add one, how would that work with the expansion draft?

Reason I'm asking is because I was just explaining the rules of the draft to a friend of mine who is a casual (at best) NHL can and was telling him about some of the more interesting situations and he asked me that. I had no real answer and Google wasn't much help

Hamsterkill
03-01-2017, 09:30 AM
Matt Murray already has a new contract and it doesn't include a NMC.

As to what would happen if a team had two goalies with NMCs, I'm honestly not sure. Probably would suffer a draft pick penalty. Fleury's the only NMC goalie that's likely to get traded and it probably won't be to a team already with a NMC goalie. So it's probably not a situation that will need addressing, anyway.

Jake
03-01-2017, 10:10 AM
I know he doesnt, but he asked why the Pens didn't try it- he is under the impression that NHL GMs are master's when it comes to circumnavigating the rules. I told him I didn't know because the situation has never been presented. I just hate it when people ask me a question and I cannot find an answer

Hamsterkill
03-01-2017, 10:30 AM
Well, they'd probably be considered violators of the expansion draft rules and as such lose "draft picks and/or players" as a penalty.

EDIT: In Murray's case, I'm pretty sure he's also ineligible to have a NMC. I think you need to be able to be a UFA to get one. The more likely and easier way to circumvent the expansion rules will be teams quietly making deals with their UFAs (that they don't need to protect) during what's supposed to be the Vegas-only UFA period. Penalties would be risked in that case, too, though.

WIS
03-01-2017, 02:40 PM
Another boring trade deadline. It ain't what it used to be. July 1st is more exciting.

Jake
03-01-2017, 02:56 PM
Cool, thanks Hamster. WIS- I was just thinking the same thing about a boring deadline.

WIS
03-01-2017, 03:07 PM
Cool, thanks Hamster. WIS- I was just thinking the same thing about a boring deadline.
I remember looking forward to it and sitting in front of the TV until 3 pm anticipating big news. For the last couple of years, until I came to my senses, I've just checked here and there today - nothing special.

two24four
03-01-2017, 03:23 PM
This day has not been great for awhile now. Following on twitter is best now. I don't find July 1st for FA's as good anymore either. It's draft week and the draft for me.

Rocklobster
03-01-2017, 06:18 PM
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I should be more specific. I'm in a small $$ league and have Jones and Talbot as my top 2 right now. Bishop is my #3, but Greiss is on the WW. It looks like the Kings only have 3 B2B games the rest of the way.

That's right, they just finished back to backs last night too. That's a tough call, Quick might need some more games off too. I think I would keep him personally.

Doctego
03-01-2017, 07:10 PM
Washington is a flat out powerhouse but they're firmly entrenched in SJ Sharks status AKA its never their time. We're well past the point of actually predicting a deep run by Washington. They find unique ways to get in their own way and I don't see Shattenkirk fixing it.


This might be what, their 4th, 5th presidents under Ovechkin? Haven't made it to round 3 yet, not banking on it now. Two of those trophies were won with a double digit points lead ahead of 2nd place in the NHL. The Caps choke.

Fair point, but timing is everything. Look at the NBA. A lot of really good teams missed their chance for a title because of the dominance of the Bulls. Pittsburgh has been the Bulls to the Caps. I'd like to see what would happen if they finally beat them.

Kyle
03-01-2017, 09:02 PM
3rd actually. The issue is that they can never get past the Pens in the playoffs, whom they almost always have to play against.

Shocking. I'm very surprised their two wide-margin wins are their only pres trophies. Could've sworn they won one closer race, but I'm guessing they at least lost 1 or 2 very close races for other pres trophies in the Ovy era. Either way, definitely a SJ or Vancouver type deal where they're arguably the best team in the NHL for a 3-4 year stretch but can't seem to get out of their own way.


Fair point, but timing is everything. Look at the NBA. A lot of really good teams missed their chance for a title because of the dominance of the Bulls. Pittsburgh has been the Bulls to the Caps. I'd like to see what would happen if they finally beat them.

Maybe. The problem is, relatively speaking, Pittsburgh is not to the NHL what Cleveland or Golden State is to the NBA, what the Pats are to the NFL, what the Bulls and Lakers used to be, etc. The fact that the Caps have allowed an admittedly great Pens team (But nowhere close to historically great) terrorize them in the postseason just speaks to how little they step up in those moments. Getting beat by Crosby and Malkin happens, but routinely looking like a weak offense (Even in a season when they lead the league in goals) against a Pens team that doesn't have a defense good enough for that is why I get on the Caps case.

Hamsterkill
03-01-2017, 09:04 PM
I'd compare it more to STL trying to get past Chicago.

EDIT: Actually, I take it back. The Caps have only run into the Pens twice in the playoffs since Ovechkin. Surprisingly the Rangers have bounced them more times in those years. I guess my memory is rivalry-colored on that.

Kyle
03-01-2017, 09:07 PM
I'll take that comparison for sure, but I really feel like this Caps team has trended above and beyond what we saw out of St Louis even at their best. This is, to me, the best team to not get it done since those back to back pres winning Canucks teams. That said, Washington is still firmly in the middle of this new resurgent window they opened up 2-3 years ago, so their story isn't written yet.

Hamsterkill
03-01-2017, 09:11 PM
I'll take that comparison for sure, but I really feel like this Caps team has trended above and beyond what we saw out of St Louis even at their best. This is, to me, the best team to not get it done since those back to back pres winning Canucks teams. That said, Washington is still firmly in the middle of this new resurgent window they opened up 2-3 years ago, so their story isn't written yet.

You're probably right. See my edit above.

Kyle
03-01-2017, 09:21 PM
Even more surprising. The Rangers are another team who will go down as a major disappointment if they can't get Lundy a ring. They ran into that shocking LA story the one year it looked like they'd get it done.

Doctego
03-01-2017, 09:58 PM
Did you expect the Rangers to beat the Kings that year?

Kyle
03-01-2017, 10:08 PM
Did you expect the Rangers to beat the Kings that year?


By the time the finals rolled around, hell no, because LA was on that run. I worded it poorly, I just meant it was their best chance.

Hamsterkill
03-13-2017, 11:44 AM
I just dropped Daniel Sedin for Conor Sheary in a keeper league. Feels like an era is coming to a close.

Dubz
03-13-2017, 02:32 PM
Yeah i have an old ass team and have been trying to ween on some of the next generation but its not easy since you get attached in some weird way lol

two24four
03-13-2017, 03:21 PM
I just dropped Daniel Sedin for Conor Sheary in a keeper league. Feels like an era is coming to a close.

At least you can do that. The Nucks still have them for another year. Tough to rebuild when you have the Sedin's. They need to start the rebuild yesterday.

Doctego
03-13-2017, 08:04 PM
There are a bunch of teams in the league that wish that they only had their "past their prime" players signed for another year.

Kyle
03-14-2017, 02:58 AM
Yeah but in fairness Doc, they've been wishing those contracts would end for over a year already. So last year, this year, and next year are all trashed due majorly to overly long-term deals to aging stars. Daniel scored goals last year but overall the brothers have both been pretty bad. If it just became a recent trend that they both suddenly dipped, I would agree, but this has been a year+ long issue, so you have to add that to the next year that's already wasted.

Doctego
03-14-2017, 10:07 AM
Fair enough. I was merely commenting on the recent call for a rebuild. When I think of albatross contracts, I think of any long-term deal that Philly has signed a player to and the Gaborik contract. He's got 4 more years after this one. :lol:

two24four
03-14-2017, 10:17 AM
Yeah most people didn't like when the Nucks signed them for this long when they did. The NHL is getting younger and younger every year. Less 30+ year olds are getting big contracts for reasons like this. If they even get an NHL contract at all. You just can't rebuild with vets who are slowing down that you can't move. They should have rebuilt a few years ago but just can't. This is the exact reason the Leafs found a way to get rid of Lupul, Robidas, Laich. Michalek etc.... so they could start the rebuild quicker. But most teams can't do that though.

Speaking of Gaborik the Kings are another team I'm not sure what they were doing. They have Gaborik, Brown and Quick signed long term.

Kyle
03-14-2017, 10:23 AM
Fair enough. I was merely commenting on the recent call for a rebuild. When I think of albatross contracts, I think of any long-term deal that Philly has signed a player to and the Gaborik contract. He's got 4 more years after this one. :lol:

Haha, yeah, I forget the NHL is full of contracts that ridiculous still years from ending.

WIS
03-15-2017, 12:36 AM
Yeah but in fairness Doc, they've been wishing those contracts would end for over a year already. So last year, this year, and next year are all trashed due majorly to overly long-term deals to aging stars. Daniel scored goals last year but overall the brothers have both been pretty bad. If it just became a recent trend that they both suddenly dipped, I would agree, but this has been a year+ long issue, so you have to add that to the next year that's already wasted.


Yeah most people didn't like when the Nucks signed them for this long when they did. The NHL is getting younger and younger every year. Less 30+ year olds are getting big contracts for reasons like this. If they even get an NHL contract at all. You just can't rebuild with vets who are slowing down that you can't move. They should have rebuilt a few years ago but just can't. This is the exact reason the Leafs found a way to get rid of Lupul, Robidas, Laich. Michalek etc.... so they could start the rebuild quicker. But most teams can't do that though.

Speaking of Gaborik the Kings are another team I'm not sure what they were doing. They have Gaborik, Brown and Quick signed long term.
The price of keeping talent way past the due date in the new NHL. Will things change? How do you offer the money that these stars want and circumvent that cap? Tricky.

Kyle
03-16-2017, 05:33 PM
Do we really have to watch that fucking douche nozzle Marchand lift an Art Ross and Rocket Richard this year? Maybe toss an MVP onto the pile too? What a crock of shit. Do something, Sid!

Doctego
03-16-2017, 05:45 PM
He sucks if he's on the other team, but he's been on some roll since the World Cup of Hockey. I believe that he played with Crosby, so you can blame him for getting him started with this bullshit.

two24four
03-17-2017, 12:59 AM
I can't stand him either but he's always had the skill. He just wanted to be more of a rat before. He's been doing this for about 2 years now. He scored 37 goals last season.

Kyle
03-17-2017, 10:21 AM
Can't disagree with you guys. He's always had mad skill, just not top-10 quality until the last few years. He went from a highly productive pest to a legit MVP. Just, as you said, can't stand him.

Dubz
03-17-2017, 05:28 PM
It wouldnt be so bad if he didnt play for Boston :p

Kyle
03-19-2017, 10:07 AM
Ovechkin has 3 multi-goal games this year. 3.

Has shots per game is almost 1.5 per game lower than his entire career also. His shooting percentage down 2% from 12-10.

He did this before in 2011-2012, but it's way more surprising now due to the awful shooting percentage and the fact that everything has been going so great in Washington for him individually since then, and consistently so.

Is 40 goals fair to expect anymore? Hard to ask that a year removed from 3 straight 50 goal seasons, but its also hard to expect Ovy suddenly making up the 100 shots he lost this year or the 2% his percentage dipped. Shooting % is often a very strong indicator of a turning point in people's careers. Gretzky averaged way over 20% for the first 13 years of his career, and below 14% the last 9. His last 3 high-% years were 54, 41, and 40 goals. He never reached 40 goals again the last 9 years, reaching 38 once but otherwise never reaching 30.

There's nothing else to talk about so I'm forcing the subject -a bit-, but I do think if I had to put money on it, I'd say Ovy is never reaching 40 again. It doesn't get any easier at 32 and beyond. I think he's officially past his prime, which is not surprising because he had a game that was always going to be very difficult to keep up into his 30s, compared to Crosby who will probably stretch his prime another season or two at least at an MVP level.

Doctego
03-19-2017, 11:40 AM
Hard to say. I remember there being talk years ago that he was done and he definitely came back. It gets harder as the years add up, though. He's been a great keeper for me in a league of mine and I'm thinking of offering him up around the league for picks. Not that I think he's done. Just that I have some tough keeper choices.

phaneuf6
03-19-2017, 12:02 PM
Ovechkin has 3 multi-goal games this year. 3.

Has shots per game is almost 1.5 per game lower than his entire career also. His shooting percentage down 2% from 12-10.

He did this before in 2011-2012, but it's way more surprising now due to the awful shooting percentage and the fact that everything has been going so great in Washington for him individually since then, and consistently so.

Is 40 goals fair to expect anymore? Hard to ask that a year removed from 3 straight 50 goal seasons, but its also hard to expect Ovy suddenly making up the 100 shots he lost this year or the 2% his percentage dipped. Shooting % is often a very strong indicator of a turning point in people's careers. Gretzky averaged way over 20% for the first 13 years of his career, and below 14% the last 9. His last 3 high-% years were 54, 41, and 40 goals. He never reached 40 goals again the last 9 years, reaching 38 once but otherwise never reaching 30.

There's nothing else to talk about so I'm forcing the subject -a bit-, but I do think if I had to put money on it, I'd say Ovy is never reaching 40 again. It doesn't get any easier at 32 and beyond. I think he's officially past his prime, which is not surprising because he had a game that was always going to be very difficult to keep up into his 30s, compared to Crosby who will probably stretch his prime another season or two at least at an MVP level.

What a hot take!

If you look at his big goal scoring years (lots of them) his PP goals are huge. The league may have just finally adjusted to the Caps PP and taken away that big one-timer from the circle. His ATOI is a bit lower this year...

I don't think any of it matters if the Caps finally win a Cup, which they are looking primed to do. Going to the Verizon Center next Saturday to see them live - should be fun.

Kyle
03-19-2017, 12:13 PM
Hard to say. I remember there being talk years ago that he was done and he definitely came back. It gets harder as the years add up, though. He's been a great keeper for me in a league of mine and I'm thinking of offering him up around the league for picks. Not that I think he's done. Just that I have some tough keeper choices.






Now is probably the last real chance you have to get significant value back for him, he won't be valued highly as a keeper if he has another year like this back to back. He'll still be a good player but every year that passes makes other people much less likely to think they have a chance at 40+. Right now, plenty of people will think he can still do that next year. I don't think he can.

Phaneuf, I agree, at this point he doesn't need to do anything statistically for the sake of his legacy. Its all about winning a cup or two and his all-time stock will rise if he does that no matter what his production is at that point. He's already a 3 time MVP/7 time 50 goal scorer. I wasn't trying to be gloomy, just surprised at how quickly he seemed to sharply decline. Still a great asset though and far from a guy who's just along for the ride.

Also, from the few Caps games I watch this year, that one-timer has for sure been schemed out a lot more than in the past. It's hardly ever there. Probably explains the shooting % too, because that was almost certainly his highest-% shot.

phaneuf6
03-19-2017, 12:17 PM
I agree, at this point he doesn't need to do anything statistically for the sake of his legacy. Its all about winning a cup or two and his all-time stock will rise if he does that no matter what his production is at that point. He's already a 3 time MVP/7 time 50 goal scorer. I wasn't trying to be gloomy, just surprised at how quickly he seemed to sharply decline. Still a great asset though.

Also, from the few Caps games I watch this year, that one-timer has for sure been schemed out a lot more than in the past. It's hardly ever there.

It's like Stamkos, really. Both players are very reliant on that half-boards one-timer on the powerplay because both players rely on a quick release to score goals. However, it's not THAT difficult to defend against, but does involve risk too. (i.e. if you hedge towards either player, it inevitably leaves a lane open for another player). I think the Caps are less reliant on winning games 6-5 as they might have been in the past, with Holtby being a top goaltender in the league now and the emergence of some of their defensemen and reliable role players in the bottom 6. Lars Eller, for instance, has been an extremely good add for them. Trotz has a lot to do with this too, obviously. I'd actually love to see them finally win a Cup. I might have an opportunity to work with them this summer, which I'm sure would be much more fun if they were Stanley Cup Champs too, haha.

Kyle
03-19-2017, 01:59 PM
Yeah, I know various buddies with small roles around the Wings organization and they describe the year after cup wins as heavenly.

I think a lot of people (Me included) would be really glad for Ovy and the Caps to win one. People unfairly tried to paint him as the typical selfish Russian star early in his career and I think he did a good enough job of establishing himself as a real leader in the league. Not some great leader, but certainly a team-first guy. With no real reason to dislike the guy (Sloppy and reckless hits aside, mostly in the past), he's someone the hockey world should really want to see skating around with that trophy above his head, the same way we really wanted to see Blake do it (Although obviously Ovy isn't nearly that far along the desperate trail yet).

Interesting thing about TB and WAS, both teams have adjusted so well to no Stamkos/slumping Ovechkin that they're both still top 8 in PP %. Good coaching there.

WIS
03-19-2017, 05:07 PM
How about that Malkin fella? He's really turned out to be an all around force and complete player.

Kyle
03-19-2017, 08:53 PM
Malkins beyond awesome. What him and Crosby have been able to do for such a long time is so remarkable, especially since they're rarely linemates. They're basically always #1/#2 in points per game every year. Imagine if they both didn't miss 20+ games routinely.

Malkin was so freakishly dominant during his first cup run in 09. It was a prime Gretzky-quality postseason in an era where thats unheard of. That's by far the best playoff run of the last 20+ years, and fuck him for it too, it was all the difference in the Wings losing that 7 game series :lol:

two24four
03-19-2017, 09:22 PM
Eric Staal played in his 1000 NHL game today. I bought season tickets his last season in the OHL with the Petes pretty much because of him. Glad to see him play 1000 in the NHL.

Doctego
03-20-2017, 04:37 AM
It's amazing to me how fast the Wild have fallen in the standings. Obviously, the Hawks are playing a big part in that. Don't Boudreau teams usually wait until the playoffs before they fold?

Kyle
03-20-2017, 08:43 AM
It's equally amazing to me how steadily CBJ have stayed atop the standings. I can't possibly be the only one who saw a dip to 4-6th place (if not worse) coming after that improbable win streak.

But yeah, the Wild are on a disaster skid. Hard to see them suddenly flicking the switch if they carry this shit streak into the playoffs.

phaneuf6
03-20-2017, 09:56 AM
2-8 in their last 10. Still have a record at 43-22-6. Better to skid now than later. They end the season playing, amongst others, VAN PHI DET ARI COLx2 and CAR, so they should either roll into the playoffs with some momentum or be an absolute tire fire.

two24four
03-20-2017, 09:57 AM
Ever since Dubnyk let in 2 goals on 2 shots last Sunday vs Chicago he hasn't been the same. Wild better hope he finds his game again. They were down 4-0 to the Jets yesterday only to tie the game at 4-4 but they ended up losing 5-4. He's let in 16 goals in the last 5 games.

I agree about the Blue Jackets. I didn't see them keeping this up. But they are mostly where they are because of Bobrovsky. He's the Vezina winner as of right now IMO.

Hamsterkill
03-20-2017, 11:45 AM
The Blue Jackets did dip after their win streak, to the point that I heard the players had to tell Torts to ease up on them. They've bounced back some, thanks in large part to Bob as stated. The Caps and Pens, at least, should still be considered stronger teams, though, and because of that, they're still looking at a likely early exit in the playoffs unless they can pull off an upset or manage to win the Metropolitan and thus draw the wildcard.

WIS
03-20-2017, 02:10 PM
It's equally amazing to me how steadily CBJ have stayed atop the standings. I can't possibly be the only one who saw a dip to 4-6th place (if not worse) coming after that improbable win streak.

But yeah, the Wild are on a disaster skid. Hard to see them suddenly flicking the switch if they carry this shit streak into the playoffs.
Agreed! I keep checking the standings and look out for their streaks and I'm amazed. Kinda hoping the Leafs can halt them a bit coming up :evilgrin:

Doctego
03-20-2017, 04:28 PM
Bobrovsky has been the top reason, but reason 1A has been their scoring being s spread out. They have a ton of guys scoring for them. You could probably count on 1 hand the number of guys that they had drafted in fantasy leagues before the season. I cut Atkinson in a dynasty league to make room for draft picks and he's kicking me in the ass. I didn't see this coming.

Kyle
03-24-2017, 01:57 PM
Crosby is far and beyond the NHL's most versatile player. Who else scores a goal of the year candidate, causes somebody's testicle to burst, then essentially hack off the tip of somebody's finger, all in one week? What can't he do?

Kyle
04-09-2017, 10:06 PM
McDavid has one more period to get his 100th point for the year. Would like to see him do it.

Dubz
04-10-2017, 04:26 PM
McDavid has one more period to get his 100th point for the year. Would like to see him do it.

Done deal - that cost Eichel 2 million$

Kyle
04-10-2017, 06:05 PM
Can you explain that, Dubz?

But yeah, great news! I love seeing 100 pt scorers, especially when they're the obvious new face of the league. McDavid is a freak. Crosby is clearly far from ready to step down but its very obvious who will take his place when that time comes.

McDavid wins the Art Ross, Crosby wins the Rocket Richard, and Marchand won a 2 game vacation. Great end to the season. :D

Dubz
04-11-2017, 01:27 PM
Got lucky to see some of McDavid that night and WOW, he is something else.

I read on SN that Eichel lost 2 million cuz of that goal. Ill try to find the article:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/connor-mcdavid-leon-draisaitl-cost-jack-eichel-2-million/

On a side note i picked 20/24 games correct this weekend. Hoping to win a prize!!!

Hamsterkill
04-11-2017, 02:35 PM
Would be funny if Tallon re-hired Gallant. Though there's probably better options out there now, after the yearly NHL coaching purge.

As much flak as he's gotten, I'm not inclined to want Bylsma sacked this offseason. The season was a disappointment, though I don't think by much. The playoffs were always a longshot this year. The roster still needs a fair amount of work. With that said, I wouldn't be too displeased if Ruff came back -- this time without Regier's shoddy roster-building.

two24four
04-11-2017, 10:25 PM
Any teams looking for a coach should be all over Sutter before anyone else.

Kyle
04-12-2017, 09:33 AM
Any teams looking for a coach should be all over Sutter before anyone else.

Sutter is overrated to me. He's the Tom Coughlin of the NHL. He has two titles to make up for an extended streak of mediocrity in the regular season. Both come out of nowhere after mediocre seasons to win titles. Its impressive, but the fact that we don't expect these guys to win says a lot to me.

Not that I'm denying hes ahead of Bylsma for sure. But he shouldn't be treated as some hot commodity. He's been an average-at-best coach for 15 of his 18-19 years in the league.

Unless we're leaning on the fact that his post-lockout streak is stellar and using that as the only metric, I'm not big on Sutter. LA has been one of the least enjoyable teams to watch and every time they did win it was a surprise to all because they just never looked good until the playoffs in those years. Didn't they set the record one of their two winning runs for most wins in 1 goal games? That's dumb luck mostly. I don't like a guy who's teams usually play below the sum of their parts and almost always has to grind out ugly wins despite a lot of talent.

Doctego
04-12-2017, 09:57 AM
Sutter is overrated to me. He's the Tom Coughlin of the NHL. He has two titles to make up for an extended streak of mediocrity in the regular season. Both come out of nowhere after mediocre seasons to win titles. Its impressive, but the fact that we don't expect these guys to win says a lot to me.

Not that I'm denying hes ahead of Bylsma for sure. But he shouldn't be treated as some hot commodity. He's been an average-at-best coach for 15 of his 18-19 years in the league.

Unless we're leaning on the fact that his post-lockout streak is stellar and using that as the only metric, I'm not big on Sutter. LA has been one of the least enjoyable teams to watch and every time they did win it was a surprise to all because they just never looked good until the playoffs in those years. Didn't they set the record one of their two winning runs for most wins in 1 goal games? That's dumb luck mostly. I don't like a guy who's teams usually play below the sum of their parts and almost always has to grind out ugly wins despite a lot of talent.

I know what you're saying about Sutter and, despite the fact that this is an NHL thread, I need to point out that you are severely underrating Coughlin and his coaching career. He took over an expansion franchise and led them to the AFC Championship game in his second year. He made it back there 3 years later. He made the playoffs in years 2, 3, 4, and 5. He also had a winning record there in 8 season, which is impressive. He won 2 Super Bowls with the Giants, due in large part to him changing his coaching style. Belichick is regarded in many circles as the best coach ever and he couldn't beat Coughlin. That has to count for something. There are 4 coaches with more Super Bowl titles than him. Out of 51 Super Bowls in history, there are 4 coaches with more titles than he has. That's impressive.

Kyle
04-12-2017, 10:20 AM
I can lean on your side with Coughlin. I would've argued he's the NFLs second best coach when he won the 2nd ring and I never would've said that about Sutter. Its tough to remember Coughlin fondly because basically every year after the 2nd ring was just a disaster for him. I'll give him a slight pass on the basis that the Giants were a terribly built team. The Kings have had a much better roster on average than the Giants.

I still think Coughlin is a fair comparison but maybe there are better names out there to use. The more general point is that Sutter has simply not convinced me despite those runs. The fact that one of them can be totally credited to the best postseason run ever by a goalie (Quick in 2012, which has more to do with the goalie coach than Sutter) makes me even less inclined to praise him as a two-time champion coach.

phaneuf6
04-12-2017, 10:31 AM
I've heard Gallant already has a job lined up and Bylsma is as good as gone. Bob Boughner is also sniffing around for a head coaching job.

two24four
04-12-2017, 10:59 AM
Gallant in LV? Think one of the insiders said they like him.

Hamsterkill
04-12-2017, 11:04 AM
Any teams looking for a coach should be all over Sutter before anyone else.

I actually agree, apart from the word "any". Sutter's a great coach, but I think he would be a terrible fit with the Sabres as they stand right now. I'd prefer Bylsma to Sutter for the current Sabres. I could see Sutter fitting in better in Florida or Boston (if Boston doesn't want to keep interim Cassidy).


I've heard Gallant already has a job lined up and Bylsma is as good as gone. Bob Boughner is also sniffing around for a head coaching job.
Rumors around Buffalo coaching (and front office) are notoriously spotty. Even their beat writers never know what's going on there (though I guess in fairness, their beat writers are pretty terrible, relatively speaking). Bylsma seemed somewhat confident that Murray's keeping him around for another year, and that honestly might be the best clue out there right now.

phaneuf6
04-14-2017, 09:31 AM
I've heard Gallant already has a job lined up and Bylsma is as good as gone. Bob Boughner is also sniffing around for a head coaching job.


Gallant in LV? Think one of the insiders said they like him.

Gallant officially confirmed. Met him last weekend and he didn't strike me as someone who was worried about a job. My source was right. Same source suggested trouble in Buffalo but we'll see how it plays out.

So far so good for playoff hockey... lot of exciting, close games. Looked in G1 like Pitt will run away with that series. Edmonton came out firing but San Jose slowly took that game over. I have a Sharks-Caps final so rooting for the Sharks out there against the Oilers. Atmosphere in Rogers Place looked awesome.

Kyle
04-14-2017, 01:39 PM
Good for playoff hockey, terrible for the NHLs playoff format. It really is just poorly constructed, Was/Pit/Cbj don't belong to the same bracket. The structure is flawed. I've seen a lot of NHL coverage on major sports networks leading into the playoffs and the majority of it focused on the absuridity of Cbj/Pit playing each other and the possibility that the NHLs two best teams could realistically be gone by round 3. Its not good for the latter half of the playoffs which has seen some issues in viewership.

Last years ratings stunk. This years are unlikely to be much better. This format did nothing to help the NHL and should go. "2nd has to play 3rd" is one of the most moronic playoff formatting rules in the history of modern major American sports. Its like something a kid would come up with.

That said, great first few days indeed. Its just sick how bad they fuck over Pits/Cbj and then Was next round by having to play against one of them. Just not conducive to good ratings in the last two rounds. Whoever survives that bloodbath will be significantly weakened for it. Those 3 teams got absolutely no reward for their amazing regular seasons, they were punished for it. Arguably the NHLs 3 best teams.

phaneuf6
04-14-2017, 02:57 PM
Well this year's ratings are likely to be better because there are 5 Canadian teams in the playoffs, versus none last year. But yea, generally, I agree. It should be 1v16, 2v15, etc.. If you want to argue that the travel makes that impossible, at least go back to 1v8 in each conference.

Doctego
04-14-2017, 04:24 PM
I'm all for going back to the 1-8 format for each conference due to travel issues. The only thing that the current format guarantees is that the first round or 2 of the playoffs could be better than the last round or 2.

Kyle
04-14-2017, 04:33 PM
Agree with both.

And yeah, the Canadian teams would make things interesting for sure if they make the final 4 or even the final 2. Any Canadian team in the final would definitely be huge for the NHL, especially after last years small (hockey) market clash.

Hamsterkill
04-14-2017, 04:58 PM
Agree with both.

And yeah, the Canadian teams would make things interesting for sure if they make the final 4 or even the final 2. Any Canadian team in the final would definitely be huge for the NHL, especially after last years small (hockey) market clash.
Pittsburgh's not a small market, anymore. They're actually one of the ideal Finals teams if the number of national broadcast (US) TV games is anything to go by. Only the Blackhawks had more last year.

Doctego
04-14-2017, 05:15 PM
There's a good chance that all of the Canadian teams will be bounced in the first round.

Kyle
04-14-2017, 06:33 PM
Pittsburgh's not a small market, anymore. They're actually one of the ideal Finals teams if the number of national broadcast (US) TV games is anything to go by. Only the Blackhawks had more last year.

That's just the NHL trying their hardest to make Pittsburgh a major hockey market but it really hasn't happened yet. They have an incredibly devoted hockey fanbase but the numbers simply aren't there in the city or nationwide. Pittsburgh is all about the Steelers. But the NHL has no real choice, they know how likely the Pens are to be in the finals any random year and they need to hype them up. Chicago, NY, etc. don't need any help, Pittsburgh does. What you provided IMO is more evidence for my argument because despite those national games, the numbers still look like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Cup_Finals_television_ratings

The Pens have the 2nd/3rd/4th worst rated finals in the last 9 years, its not by some substantial margin and last year was certainly more SJs fault than Pittsburghs, but they're not a major market yet that can carry a finals ratings like Chicago, New York, Dallas, or Boston can.

Hockey seems to be clearly divided between markets that nearly guarantee 3.0 + finals ratings (Chicago, NY, Boston, Toronto, Dallas), more mid 2's markets, and then at the low end you have upper 1's like LA, Edm, NJ, etc. Pittsburgh is clearly in that mid 2's range at best, only due to an incredibly strong decade of top finishes. Detroit was more of a ratings machine when they were equally good (Clearly were more responsible for the upper 2's those finals got than Pittsburgh was), and at least half the NHL would IMO pull better ratings with Pittsburgh's success the last 10 years.

They're only temporarily a relevant market as long as Crosby/Malkin are elite. To me, the as soon as that train reaches the station, half of Pittsburgh's fanbase walks off with them and they go back to LA/NJ status as far as ratings are concerned, which is where they were before Crosby.

two24four
04-15-2017, 12:28 AM
Zack Kassian was in beast mode tonight for the Oilers. He looked a bit like Lindros tonight. Can't stop him when he plays like that.

Dubz
04-15-2017, 01:39 PM
There's a good chance that all of the Canadian teams will be bounced in the first round.

This is a pretty premature statement. Take out the word good and its still pretty far fetched imo. I'll bet on it right now.

Kassian really turned his life around, i thought he was destined for jail tbh. Good for him. I'm shocked the Wild have fallen back 2 games. Most games have been decided by a goal with teams scoring less than 2 on average. I fail to see how anyone can be pulling out any guarantees atp.

I do agree with the 1v8 set up but the fact of the matter is it keeps viewing up during the regular season which seems to be the more important factor in the eyes of the elite (the ones with the money)

Kyle
04-15-2017, 02:18 PM
Well, at a glance, you definitely want to say Boston > Ottawa, SJ > Edm, Was > Tor, Anaheim >>> Calgary. Rags vs Habs is a tossup and even out of that list, I'm not so positive about SJ >Edm and Boston > Ottawa. I think we as fans are usually a bit slow to adjust with the changing times and we might see SJ/Bos as something greater than they really are at this point. Why can't Ottawa and Edmonton win? I can't come up with great reasons honestly. But Calgary, Toronto, and Ottawa can start making golf plans.

Edmonton I give a much smaller chance to make it past Anaheim in round 2 but there's no reason why Montreal can't run the east considering their fortunate bracket and the fact that their real competition will be busy killing themselves. Montreal can surely make a series out of whoever they'd meet in round 3, esp if its the choke-happy Caps coming off a really tough series vs Pit/CBJ. But they have to worry about the Rags first.

Habs are Canadas best shot to do anything this year and even that is a bit of a longshot.

Kyle
04-15-2017, 03:36 PM
Surprised Calvert hasn't been suspended.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCsEmG368VU

Jake
04-16-2017, 12:40 AM
One game suspension for the cross check

Kyle
04-16-2017, 01:59 AM
Good, deserved it.

One of the best plays of the year by Boyle in OT for the Leafs, recognizing the dropped stick by Carlson and coming up with an incredible pass to take advantage of it from behind the net.

That was sweet.

Dubz
04-16-2017, 07:10 AM
That was clutch. Maybe he will stick around, he has grown on me for sure. Leafs are in tough tho after losing Polak. Not even sure who will be back there next game atp. Marchenko?

Dubz
04-16-2017, 07:19 AM
Oh and the Canadian teams have pulled into a 1-1 in 4 out of 5 series. I think theres a "good" chance one of them will make it out of the first round. I'll still bet on it.

Doctego
04-16-2017, 05:58 PM
Oh and the Canadian teams have pulled into a 1-1 in 4 out of 5 series. I think theres a "good" chance one of them will make it out of the first round. I'll still bet on it.

There's also a good chance that you're looking to nitpick, too.;)

Until the series are over, it's all opinions and talk. If I was a betting man (and I'm not), my money would be on the Canadian teams to lose in the first round. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. It's just my opinion. It's not anti-Canadian in the least. I just don't like their matchups.

two24four
04-17-2017, 09:30 AM
Kassian is going to get a nice contract from the way he's playing in these playoffs.

Hamsterkill
04-17-2017, 12:22 PM
It seems to be a forgone conclusion, but I'm not sure it's wise to name Eichel the Sabres' captain for next season. I don't think he's quite as mature as McDavid, yet. I'd say name O'Reilly captain and let Eichel spend some time with an 'A'.

b_illin
04-18-2017, 02:01 PM
I hate that in this day and age the 'C' has to be given to whoever is the best player on the team - Eichel might never be deserving of it from what I've seen!!

chgorman
04-19-2017, 08:01 AM
I hate that in this day and age the 'C' has to be given to whoever is the best player on the team - Eichel might never be deserving of it from what I've seen!!

What have you seen that would make you think that? I think he'd make a decent captain, just not yet, maybe in a couple yrs after wearing an A for a few seasons. I also don't follow BUF super closely anymore, so maybe I've missed something negative that he's done/said, but he seems to say the right things in interviews and seems to set a good example on the ice from the few BUF games I've watched that he's played in...

Hamsterkill
04-19-2017, 09:36 AM
What have you seen that would make you think that? I think he'd make a decent captain, just not yet, maybe in a couple yrs after wearing an A for a few seasons. I also don't follow BUF super closely anymore, so maybe I've missed something negative that he's done/said, but he seems to say the right things in interviews and seems to set a good example on the ice from the few BUF games I've watched that he's played in...

Nothing really negative. Just stories of friction between him and coaches or older teammates (though usually not publicly), rumors of an air of entitlement, and can be quick to frustration. He just doesn't seem to have that beyond-his-years maturity that a Toews or a McDavid has. He might be a fine captain one day -- he certainly has the work ethic and competitive drive, and teams could certainly do worse for a captain even now. It's just that it seems unwise to rush him into the role when a guy like O'Reilly is available for him to mature under a little more. Perhaps even a co-captaincy with O'Reilly would be a better idea so that the responsibility doesn't completely fall on him in what is probably going to be a borderline playoff team at best next year.

two24four
04-19-2017, 09:45 AM
I'm not sure I would want to risk pissing him off by giving someone else the C over him if I'm the Sabres. He's going to see the two guys he's most compared to around the league McDavid and Matthews (I fully expect Matthews to be named Leafs Captain before next season) have the C on their jersey's. The last thing you want is to piss off your franchise player.


With saying that he does seem to let things get to him more than these other players. He gets so snarly when asked about McDavid/Matthews while the others just seem to brush off the same questions.

Hamsterkill
04-19-2017, 10:07 AM
I'm not sure I would want to risk pissing him off by giving someone else the C over him if I'm the Sabres. He's going to see the two guys he's most compared to around the league McDavid and Matthews (I fully expect Matthews to be named Leafs Captain before next season) have the C on their jersey's. The last thing you want is to piss off your franchise player.


Yes, and that's why it seems like it's a foregone conclusion that he will be captain next year. Some are even suggesting it will be part of his extension negotiation. I just think it's a role he's not best suited to handling alone right now.

Kyle
04-19-2017, 11:18 AM
I'd call these concerns over Eichel fairly unfounded. The idea that "Well, he's not a Toews or Zetterberg" could be used against him is just brutal. The league has far more captains like Eichel than captains like them Half the captains in the league are questionable personalities. Eichel is not on the wrong side of the list. As an extremely young guy he'd already fit right in near the middle can only mature from here. Maybe he does become one of those character guys we truly respect. But that's really the exception more than the rule.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2017_captains.html

I personally think people overthink the subject of captaincy entirely. It's really not such a big deal and a team having the wrong captain isn't the ticking time bomb that people like to think it is. It hardly heightens expectations at all for an individual with the small exception of big markets like NY or Toronto. Whether Eichel is named captain or not has nothing to do with his progression as a player nor does it change the way his teammates will perceive and learn from him (or mentor him). The rest of the team won't try any differently if they disagree with Eichels promotion.

Leaders will lead regardless who the captain is. I don't see the issue with Eichel being made captain at all. The only valid issue here is the fact that if he IS immature, not making him captain could be a huge blow to his psyche. This is Buffalo, nobody is going to be raking him over the coals if he doesn't bring immediate benefits. He won't be getting the vicious treatment NY and Toronto can put athletes through, its simply not possible. Buffalo isn't going to ruin a franchise player's head.

It'd really be unwise to delay the inevitable. Give him the C.

two24four
04-19-2017, 11:36 AM
In Baseball, Football, Basketball etc... I don't think being the Captain is a big deal. But your kidding yourself if you think being a captain in hockey isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal to the players and most fans. It's a big honour to hockey players to be named captain of their team.

Kyle
04-19-2017, 12:04 PM
And my opinion is thats just you romanticizing your favorite sport. Especially when you can agree it doesn't matter in all the others, its absurd to think it matters in hockey, and totally disrespectful to professional athletes to act like any damn bit of their performance hinges on who has a C on their jersey.

It matters in Toronto because you guys are 12 miles beyond unhealthy about your hockey obsession lol. Its a huge honor to you fans and the players have to play the part because you'll destroy them if they don't.

two24four
04-19-2017, 12:15 PM
To tell the truth I'm even more of a baseball fan than I am hockey. I grew up a much better baseball player than I was a hockey player. In fact I still play baseball 2 times a week. I don't play hockey anymore. I love hockey yes but if I could only watch/play one sport it's baseball.

It's not just a big deal in Toronto. Maybe less for some US based teams but the players still take it as a huge honour.

I would say it's also a bigger deal in Montreal than Toronto. If you think we are bad in Toronto you have seen nothing when it comes to Montreal, all they have is the Habs. Who is captain in Montreal is always a big topic there.

Hamsterkill
04-19-2017, 12:18 PM
I'd call these concerns over Eichel fairly unfounded. The idea that "Well, he's not a Toews or Zetterberg" could be used against him is just brutal. The league has far more captains like Eichel than captains like them Half the captains in the league are questionable personalities. Eichel is not on the wrong side of the list. As an extremely young guy he'd already fit right in near the middle can only mature from here. Maybe he does become one of those character guys we truly respect. But that's really the exception more than the rule.


Like I said, a team could do worse than Eichel. I just think Buffalo has better options for the near-term.



I personally think people overthink the subject of captaincy entirely. It's really not such a big deal and a team having the wrong captain isn't the ticking time bomb that people like to think it is. It hardly heightens expectations at all for an individual with the small exception of big markets like NY or Toronto. Whether Eichel is named captain or not has nothing to do with his progression as a player nor does it change the way his teammates will perceive and learn from him (or mentor him).

Having suffered through the leaderless mess that was the Sabres after Drury and Briere left, I have to disagree that having bad leadership isn't a problem. Buffalo is not as bad as Toronto or NY, but they're really not far behind. Their press follow the same school of thought as the ones from the big city, while being significantly dumber in most cases. This results in a hefty amount of uneducated criticism being leveled at stars and team leaders whenever there's a question about them, and that can get to a young player that's still maturing. As for team perception, my concern is more about how Eichel perceives himself. Being made captain may put it into his head that he doesn't need mentoring.



Leaders will lead regardless who the captain is. I don't see the issue with Eichel being made captain at all. The only valid issue here is the fact that if he IS immature, not making him captain could be a huge blow to his psyche. This is Buffalo, nobody is going to be raking him over the coals if he doesn't bring immediate benefits. He won't be getting the vicious treatment NY and Toronto can put athletes through, its simply not possible. Buffalo isn't going to ruin a franchise player's head.
Sorry, but that's decidedly not the case. Just look at what's happening to Reinhart right now.


It'd really be unwise to delay the inevitable. Give him the C.
Like I said, I'm not against increasing his responsibility in leadership. He doesn't have a letter of any kind right now, and I'm fine with making him an alternate. I'd even be okay with letting him be co-captain. He's just not ready to shoulder it on his own. Even as not captain, just look at the kinds of things he can inspire in the media with the report today that he supposedly didn't want to negotiate an extension as long as Bylsma is coach. That's not the kind of attitude you want to encourage if you're Buffalo. It will only lead to more problems down the road, especially with the Buffalo media.

chgorman
04-19-2017, 01:13 PM
Nothing really negative. Just stories of friction between him and coaches or older teammates (though usually not publicly), rumors of an air of entitlement, and can be quick to frustration. He just doesn't seem to have that beyond-his-years maturity that a Toews or a McDavid has. He might be a fine captain one day -- he certainly has the work ethic and competitive drive, and teams could certainly do worse for a captain even now. It's just that it seems unwise to rush him into the role when a guy like O'Reilly is available for him to mature under a little more. Perhaps even a co-captaincy with O'Reilly would be a better idea so that the responsibility doesn't completely fall on him in what is probably going to be a borderline playoff team at best next year.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of any of these things. Still, pretty minor stuff that he'll likely grow out of as he matures, and/or likely be solved with a couple more years of NHL experience.

B_ was talking as if Eichel was the 2nd coming of E.Kane in all the worst ways, which clearly isn't the case.

If I was running the show in BUF, O'Reilly woulda been the captain this past season and next season. I'd give Eichel an A for next season, co-captain him with O'Reilly for the following season or 2, then give him the captaincy outright 3 seasons down the road, once he's matured a bit and gained some more experience.

For the record, I agree with Kyle that some of the captains around the league are questionable at best, but I believe he importance of a team's captaincy falls somewhere between what Kyle is stating and what 24 is stating. I think the awarding of and importance of the captaincy is a little overblown in many NHL markets (Toronto and Montreal specifically), however NHL captains (and hockey team captains in general) do have a bit more importance and responsibility to the team and fans than captains in other sports may. Most NFL teams seem rotate their captains on a game by game basis and it seems to be more of a ceremonious position than anything requiring any additional responsibility aside from standing at mid-field during a coin-toss. I didn't even know that basketball/baseball teams had captains... do they actually? And if so, do they have any additional responsibilities aside from setting a good example? I don't follow soccer at all, so I have no idea if soccer teams have captains or any additional responsibilities they may have, or how they would even be chosen (best diver/flailer)?

Hockey team captains (and assistants) are technically the only ones allowed to talk to the refs on the ice. They are expected to set the bar for the team both on and off the ice, in regards to responsibility, maturity, good on-and-of-ice work habits, production, etc. they'll typically run players-only meetings and are sometimes asked by teammates to be the conduit between the players and the coaches, and vice-versa. They're usually the face of the franchise when it comes to the media and are expected to do far more media stuff than Joe Blow 4th liner/3rd D pair, or even the assistant captains. I could go on. Hockey team captains definitely seem to have more responsibilities than other sports' team captains, but maybe I'm misinformed.

I agree with Kyle that leaders will lead regardless of a letter on their jersey and expectations from teammates/coaches, and I think it's ridiculous that the captaincy gets so overblown in places like Montreal (where they lose their minds if the captain isn't Canadian, French-Canadian and/or doesn't speak French, regardless of how well he plays, influences his teammates and deals with the media) or Toronto (where every single aspect of the team is analysed and over-analysed into oblivion), but at the same time, I agree with 24 that hockey team captains may have more importance to their team and the fans than captains in the other major sports, which makes it little bigger deal when it changes than say, the Lions making Golden Tate a captain against Seattle simply because it's his former team, or an NFL team naming the backup long-snapper a captain because he played college ball in whatever stadium they happen to be playing in that week.

If I'm way off base on this, and NFL/NBA/MLB/soccer team captains actually do have additional responsibilities aside from the ceremonial aspect, please correct me. I'm actually curious now.

two24four
04-19-2017, 02:34 PM
Some teams in baseball have captains. Not always though. Derek Jeter was the captain for the Yankees but he never had a C on his jersey. Jason Varitek was the Red Sox captain and had a little C on his jersey. Carlos Delgado was the Blue Jays captain back in the day. It's really not for anything though. More of a pride thing.

In football I know the players who are named captains have those little C's with the star's under them. The Patriots name captains but they don't wear the C's. I think they are the only team who don't wear them. But like you said it's really nothing more in football than for the coin toss.

Lacrosse is more like hockey where they name a captain and have 2 or 3 assistant captains. They need them to also talk to the refs etc....

Kyle
04-19-2017, 03:34 PM
If I'm way off base on this, and NFL/NBA/MLB/soccer team captains actually do have additional responsibilities aside from the ceremonial aspect, please correct me. I'm actually curious now.

Sport by sport, excluding MLB because I don't follow it:

Football - Totally ceremonial. Ironically, football captains are also the best chosen. They're almost always the true locker room leaders, but it really means nothing, because teams can declare so many. These guys are validated in tons of other ways by their team besides the captain designation.

Soccer - Again totally ceremonial. The guy with the captains armband even has to pass it off to someone else when he's substituted off lol. Captaincy in soccer pretty much only goes as far as deciding who has the right to argue calls with the ref, although even then they let other players argue constantly. Top teams world-wide like Real Madrid and Chelsea have overbearing douche bags (Sergei Ramos and John Terry respectively) as captains because they're celebrities with the fans.

NBA - I don't think I've ever even heard the term captain used around the NBA, so it can't be that relevant.

I won't argue with anything else because I actually largely like/agree with a lot of what was said, and most of the rest falls under agree to disagree. I will say to Hamster that I'm not so sure Reinhart is being targeted and not bringing some of it upon himself. I really don't know a whole lot beyond the tardiness/benching issue though.

24, you can make any fanbase on the planet seem rational if you start comparing them to Habs fans. :D For what its worth, as much as I find Toronto's love of all things Leafs funny, I also do respect it. Its a different kind of hardcore than Chicago or New York, there seems to be more genuine passion from Leafs fans as opposed to other major markets which seem to ride ego trips when their teams are on top.

two24four
04-20-2017, 09:21 AM
BUF fired both Tim Murray and Dan Bylsma. Wow. Guess some of the stuff talked about yesterday was true. He better hope he likes his next coach.

Hamsterkill
04-20-2017, 11:23 AM
BUF fired both Tim Murray and Dan Bylsma. Wow. Guess some of the stuff talked about yesterday was true. He better hope he likes his next coach.

Wonder who they're thinking about for GM now. Murray wasn't among the best, but he wasn't bad, either. (please not Lombardi, please not Lombardi...)

b_illin
04-20-2017, 12:25 PM
What have you seen that would make you think that? I think he'd make a decent captain, just not yet, maybe in a couple yrs after wearing an A for a few seasons. I also don't follow BUF super closely anymore, so maybe I've missed something negative that he's done/said, but he seems to say the right things in interviews and seems to set a good example on the ice from the few BUF games I've watched that he's played in...

He seems prickly and emotional in the not good way. I don't mean to suggest he would be a poor choice, I am saying I don't understand why he is the presumed choice when you have a guy like O'Reilly. (the reason is to not bruise Eichel's ego...which is stupid)


I'm not sure I would want to risk pissing him off by giving someone else the C over him if I'm the Sabres. He's going to see the two guys he's most compared to around the league McDavid and Matthews (I fully expect Matthews to be named Leafs Captain before next season) have the C on their jersey's. The last thing you want is to piss off your franchise player.


With saying that he does seem to let things get to him more than these other players. He gets so snarly when asked about McDavid/Matthews while the others just seem to brush off the same questions.

...and that is what annoys me. If the guy is truly Captain material, he would put the team above himself and not sulk or whatever. Not saying he would sulk necessarily, but I suspect he would, and that, to me, would make him unworthy of wearing the 'C'


I'd call these concerns over Eichel fairly unfounded. The idea that "Well, he's not a Toews or Zetterberg" could be used against him is just brutal. The league has far more captains like Eichel than captains like them Half the captains in the league are questionable personalities. Eichel is not on the wrong side of the list. As an extremely young guy he'd already fit right in near the middle can only mature from here. Maybe he does become one of those character guys we truly respect. But that's really the exception more than the rule.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2017_captains.html

I personally think people overthink the subject of captaincy entirely. It's really not such a big deal and a team having the wrong captain isn't the ticking time bomb that people like to think it is. It hardly heightens expectations at all for an individual with the small exception of big markets like NY or Toronto. Whether Eichel is named captain or not has nothing to do with his progression as a player nor does it change the way his teammates will perceive and learn from him (or mentor him). The rest of the team won't try any differently if they disagree with Eichels promotion.

Leaders will lead regardless who the captain is. I don't see the issue with Eichel being made captain at all. The only valid issue here is the fact that if he IS immature, not making him captain could be a huge blow to his psyche. This is Buffalo, nobody is going to be raking him over the coals if he doesn't bring immediate benefits. He won't be getting the vicious treatment NY and Toronto can put athletes through, its simply not possible. Buffalo isn't going to ruin a franchise player's head.

It'd really be unwise to delay the inevitable. Give him the C.

Why is it brutal? Naming a kid the Captain is fucked in and of itself (I love McDavid, and he's SPECIAL in every way, but they still should have waited a year or two...it's not like someone HAS TO WEAR the 'C') but he's not Toews or Zetterberg and that's because he hasn't been around long enough to prove himself the way Toews and Zets did in earning their C's. You don't give the Captaincy to someone who *might* grow into it, you give it the fucking guy that everyone on the team looks up to. I don't think many of Eichel's look up to him the way McDavid's or even Matthews teammates to.

Sure, leaders will lead regardless but you're deluding yourself if you think that it's good for a team to give the captaincy to someone who has yet to earn it...and if Hamster is right, someone not everyone likes. That has terrible team chemistry written all over it.

Who is chosen to wear the 'C' is a VERY BIG DEAL dude!


In Baseball, Football, Basketball etc... I don't think being the Captain is a big deal. But your kidding yourself if you think being a captain in hockey isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal to the players and most fans. It's a big honour to hockey players to be named captain of their team.

Agree 1000%


And my opinion is thats just you romanticizing your favorite sport. Especially when you can agree it doesn't matter in all the others, its absurd to think it matters in hockey, and totally disrespectful to professional athletes to act like any damn bit of their performance hinges on who has a C on their jersey.

It matters in Toronto because you guys are 12 miles beyond unhealthy about your hockey obsession lol. Its a huge honor to you fans and the players have to play the part because you'll destroy them if they don't.

With all due respect, have you ever played on a hockey team before? As you are from FLA, I'm thinking no and if yes, then team dynamics were maybe different from those in hockey mkts/Canada where it is a very big deal to wear the 'C' and most who wear it well understand the responsibilities and duties that come with it. It's about who the coach thinks can lead the team, not who is the best player on the team.


Like I said, a team could do worse than Eichel. I just think Buffalo has better options for the near-term.


Having suffered through the leaderless mess that was the Sabres after Drury and Briere left, I have to disagree that having bad leadership isn't a problem. Buffalo is not as bad as Toronto or NY, but they're really not far behind. Their press follow the same school of thought as the ones from the big city, while being significantly dumber in most cases. This results in a hefty amount of uneducated criticism being leveled at stars and team leaders whenever there's a question about them, and that can get to a young player that's still maturing. As for team perception, my concern is more about how Eichel perceives himself. Being made captain may put it into his head that he doesn't need mentoring.


Sorry, but that's decidedly not the case. Just look at what's happening to Reinhart right now.

Like I said, I'm not against increasing his responsibility in leadership. He doesn't have a letter of any kind right now, and I'm fine with making him an alternate. I'd even be okay with letting him be co-captain. He's just not ready to shoulder it on his own. Even as not captain, just look at the kinds of things he can inspire in the media with the report today that he supposedly didn't want to negotiate an extension as long as Bylsma is coach. That's not the kind of attitude you want to encourage if you're Buffalo. It will only lead to more problems down the road, especially with the Buffalo media.

Yes

Yes

(and) Yes




B_ was talking as if Eichel was the 2nd coming of E.Kane in all the worst ways, which clearly isn't the case.



No, that was the inference you perceived based on the bias you have towards me ;)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUF should bring back Lindy Ruff

Kyle
04-20-2017, 01:58 PM
It's about who the coach thinks can lead the team,

This is where you nor anyone else will ever persuade me. This idea that one singular person is actually leading athletes in professional sports is nonsense to me. If anyone could ever make that claim, its ONLY a coach or literally the most extreme exceptions on the planet like Lebron James who runs every aspect of his team's on-court product from personnel to strategy. Those are rare cases.

Hockey players don't look to one person, they look to a group. Sure, the guy wearing the C autta be somebody part of that leadership group, but history has shown teams can do just as well sticking the C on their star player and calling it a day. Seriously, how weak minded are we assuming hockey players are? They can't suck it up, understand why the wrong guy wears a C, and use their common sense and own moral compass to decide who is worth looking up to and who isn't on the team?

I never said the wrong C can't hurt a team. I said the impact is minimal, and not nearly as bad as ruining a guy's mentality by not giving him the C and planting seeds in his head that you consider him immature, etc. Buffalo has seriously little to lose by promoting Eichel early.

I hear all you guys, I simply don't agree. Crosby isn't a leader. Nobody in Pittsburgh is complaining.

Also, I don't think you understand that this is literally almost always the way it works in rebuilds man. Your Zetterberg only gets to wait 10-15 years for the C when you have an Yzerman or Lidstrom ahead of him and when you have those guys you aren't rebuilding. Buffalo is rebuilding because those guys don't exist in their recent history.

Pens had to rebuild, Crosby was captain early. Hawks had to rebuild, Toews was captain early. Caps had to rebuild, Ovechkin was captain early. McDavid is going to be captain early. Eichel should be captain early. It works that way because its BEST that way, whether the guy is ready (Toews) or not (Crosby) you force his hand in leading the rebuild. Its all about Eichel in Buffalo, period. Nothing else makes sense except promoting him sometime in the next year or two,

PS - No offense taken, I never played hockey at any noteworthy level, just some roller leagues in Florida. By the time I learned how to skate I just wasn't as much into playing it as before.

Kyle
04-20-2017, 02:11 PM
BTW - Of course if a guy is a problem he shouldn't wear the C. A little bit of immaturity isn't a problem to me, its status quo at his age and promoting him might just speed up his maturation process.

I have to side with Chg in that the message from the "he shouldn't wear it" camp heavily suggests Eichel is some detrimental personality, but maybe I'm misreading as well. Don't want to put words in anyone's mouths, but it did feel that way.

phaneuf6
04-20-2017, 03:59 PM
Matt Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly were both really pissed when Landeskog was given the C in Colorado, FWIW.

two24four
04-20-2017, 04:54 PM
Yeah that was one I thought was a little too soon. I know he was a great leader in Jr and I'm sure he would have been given the C at some point down the road but they really did not need to give it to him when they did. The Avs have bigger problems then that right now though.

two24four
04-20-2017, 04:59 PM
Wonder who they're thinking about for GM now. Murray wasn't among the best, but he wasn't bad, either. (please not Lombardi, please not Lombardi...)

haha. I have already heard his name a few times from the insiders today. One guy I would get right a way if Calgary doesn't resign him is Treliving. Calgary should resign him though. There is so many names out there right now. Some who have been GM's and some who are close to being 1st time GM's.

Think they would bring back Ruff to coach?

Hamsterkill
04-20-2017, 05:11 PM
Crosby isn't a leader.

You can say he was made captain too early and I won't argue with you. You can't say he isn't a leader, though. Crosby is the leader for that team. And that's for better and worse -- you can see that the Pens take on Sid's mental state in games where he gets frustrated and games where he maintains his focus with intensity. As Sid goes, so do the Pens go most of the time.

I do think Crosby was made captain too early and that old man Roberts probably would have been a better choice that year. I will note that the Pens actually wanted to give Crosby the C sooner and Sid refused it because he didn't think he was ready then. Eichel's attitude actually reminds me a lot of Crosby in his early years. Crosby at least benefited from always having Lemieux around, though, as an unquestionable source of mentoring. Sid also recognized he needed more maturity if he was going to wear the C and actually took a leap forward in maturity the first season he wore it. It's possible Eichel could do the same, I just don't see the need to chance it.

EDIT: I'll also note that Ovechkin wasn't named captain until midway through 2009-10. He was 24. That's not that early.

Hamsterkill
04-20-2017, 05:26 PM
haha. I have already heard his name a few times from the insiders today. One guy I would get right a way if Calgary doesn't resign him is Treliving. Calgary should resign him though. There is so many names out there right now. Some who have been GM's and some who are close to being 1st time GM's.

Think they would bring back Ruff to coach?

They might. Pegula still likes him, I hear. I think he will probably leave the coaching hire to whomever they hire for GM, though.

And yes, it's inevitable that Lombardi would get consideration. Having heard how he assembled Team USA, though, he doesn't seem an attractive option to me. Even the two Cups with LA don't inspire much confidence in me considering how up and down they were season-to-season.

After Lombardi, the name I've seen thrown around most is Chris Drury, both for the nostalgia factor and because he's apparently seen as a skilled assistant with the Rangers with a GM ahead of him that doesn't look likely to be vacating the position any time soon. Not sure he'd want to leave the Rangers organization, though.

two24four
04-20-2017, 05:37 PM
Jason Botterill is another name getting thrown around today.

Hamsterkill
04-20-2017, 05:38 PM
Jason Botterill is another name getting thrown around today.

Yeah, Botterill was in the running when they hired Murray, too.

Kyle
04-20-2017, 06:17 PM
Ovechkin wasn't that early but relative to his maturation process he was still far behind where a captain should be at 24. Ovechkin was still a knee-jerking dirty moron at 24 who still hadn't learned to stop leaving his feet 2-3 times every game. In fairness to him, he has made a way more dramatic turnaround into a mature leader than I ever would've guessed back then. Ovy to me acts the part better than Crosby but there's simply no comparing the effort and product on the ice that Ovy gives to the magic Crosby provides night in and night out.

In response to Landeskog, that's a very fair point, but Landeskog was never truly the guy in Colorado. My point has more or less been "Sure, choose captains wisely, but when a truly wise choice isn't there, choose the franchise superstar." And during rebuilds, that option is rarely there, because its hard to be an obvious leader during a 4-6 year stretch of terrible seasons.

If Colorado made MacKinnon captain and people got outraged over that, I would be really interested. My sincere guess is it would've gone over just fine because MacKinnon is the obvious franchise guy. Landeskog isn't. But its still a very fair point because it does show players care.

Hamster, was Sid captain or not when he pulled that ridiculous bit of bullshit vs Flyers when Pens lost in round 1? If we was a C then, I refuse to accept he was any more mature than the day he entered the NHL when he was made captain, because that guy was as much of a punk as I've ever seen in hockey. I'm sincerely asking btw, I really don't know. If he wasn't captain then yet, I'm certainly willing to accept that he matured a bit. Obviously he still eventually matured either way but I won't accept that the process started until after that ridiculous series, so if that was year 1/2 as C, then he took at least that long to figure it out.

I wasn't calling him a bad captain, because his example speaks louder than words, but his personality is absolutely unfit to lead men in the traditional sense. If Crosby were an average NHLer there'd be a 0% chance he'd be a captain of any team, he would've been a major personality project to get over his early sense of entitlement and whiny behavior and if he ever pushed through that then good for him but he would never be on his way to leading men. He leads because he's unquestionably the best in the game for 6-7 years now. Short of that he isn't inspiring anyone. But please note I said he's not a leader, not that he's a bad captain, because I actually think he's a phenomenal captain, because the results speak for themselves. My point is that non-leaders are fine as captains if their play sets the example, hence my inclination to just give it to franchise superstars.

Toews and Zetterberg are good captains even as 30 pt 4th liners. You don't need that quality in the guy wearing a C. That's why I felt its a brutal thing to compare all captains too, btw, I_llin. Its like saying a guy isn't a sniper because he can't score like Ovechkin. Its a harsh standard and players can succeed without meeting it. The league doesn't have those guys sitting around in excess, but almost every franchise has its star.

Hamsterkill
04-20-2017, 08:47 PM
He was captain for that series, yes. He's actually been captain for every playoff berth of the Pens' steak. Note I didn't say he was immediately mature when he got the C, I said he took a leap in maturity. He's only been fully mature for the past few seasons now. The day-to-day punk stuff stopped when he got the C. After that it would take frustration to bring that out, which is what happened in the Philly series you mentioned.

But that's kind of my point in saying he is the leader of that team. Sid got frustrated and so did the rest of the team after him. Sid leads and the team follows. That's the definition of a leader. Like I said, it doesn't always work out for the best, but the team is unarguably Sid's. Even when he's injured, he's the leader. I'm not sure if that's the definition you were using?

two24four
04-20-2017, 09:42 PM
Soooo who had Chicago going out in the 1st round in 4? Preds look good.

Doctego
04-21-2017, 04:51 AM
The Preds looked so fast and so good. They didn't let up at all.

Kyle
04-21-2017, 10:11 AM
He was captain for that series, yes. He's actually been captain for every playoff berth of the Pens' steak. Note I didn't say he was immediately mature when he got the C, I said he took a leap in maturity. He's only been fully mature for the past few seasons now. The day-to-day punk stuff stopped when he got the C. After that it would take frustration to bring that out, which is what happened in the Philly series you mentioned.

But that's kind of my point in saying he is the leader of that team. Sid got frustrated and so did the rest of the team after him. Sid leads and the team follows. That's the definition of a leader. Like I said, it doesn't always work out for the best, but the team is unarguably Sid's. Even when he's injured, he's the leader. I'm not sure if that's the definition you were using?

Yeah, you seem to nail it in that we're arguing different interpretations of what a leader is. I definitely hear your side and agree that as Sid goes, the Pens follow fully.

Chicago getting outed was hugely shocking, for sure. Rinne had one of the best playoff series I've ever seen and I don't think that's any exaggeration.

You can allow 3 goals in one game to Chicago and still play well. To allow 3 goals combined in 4 games is just unheard of in this era.

b_illin
04-21-2017, 12:14 PM
It's easy to discount how important the right leadership is within a team/organization/company/etc until there is a moment or event where having the right leadership dictates how the team etc responds. Hamster's example with Crosby speaks to this. I see the captain as the #2 voice in the room after the head coach... And sometimes he's the #1 voice if the room doesn't respect the coach's voice anymore (or he has to be forceful slapping personalities around if they aren't listening to the coach etc)


When you go to war you need good leadership!

two24four
04-21-2017, 02:05 PM
Some coach's leave the room to the players. They let the captain take charge while they are in there. Like b_ said so it's a different voice rather than the coach barking at them.

I knew one OHL captain years ago who would make sure his teammates were in by curfew even though that wasn't his job.

Kyle
04-21-2017, 10:38 PM
Wideman deserves to pay every penny Henderson is asking from him. I still think the reduction to 10 games was one of the stupidest disciplinary decisions in NHL history. 20 games was already far too lenient for one of the worst attacks of an official in any major US sport history.That arbitrator who reduced it is an enormous douche nozzle because it set such an irresponsible precedent.

It still shocks me that people were generously naive enough to suggest he accidentally did that in the midst of a concussion. How many tens of thousands of concussions have we (knowingly or unknowingly) watched athletes receive in the history of American sports? And how many of them reacted by destroying a ref with a blatant, intentional hit, not "running into someone and protecting himself in the follow through" but a terrible crosscheck.

Even if Wideman was in the midst of a blackout and thought it was the other team, the lawsuit is valid because it's such an unheard of, moronic, and reckless reaction. And this is giving him the benefit of a doubt. Its still perfectly valid to believe, as the lawsuit claims, that Wideman simply attacked the ref. There's no reason NOT to think it except that Wideman was a longterm vet who had no history. Video evidence speaks substantially louder than history.

Hamsterkill
04-23-2017, 01:15 PM
Had a dream the Sabres hired Pierre McGuire to GM. I was unnerved.

Kyle
04-23-2017, 04:09 PM
Can't get much worse man, this rebuild is starting to stall out. I think a fresh blast of Pierre is just what Buffalo needs.

Doctego
04-23-2017, 07:37 PM
Can't get much worse man, this rebuild is starting to stall out. I think a fresh blast of Pierre is just what Buffalo needs.

I know that a lot of people wouldn't mind, since that would get him off of TV. I don't mind him, though. He clearly knows and loves the game.

Kyle
04-23-2017, 08:31 PM
Yeah, all jokes aside, I wouldn't be devastated by that hire as a fan of some franchises. I wouldn't be giddy about it, but I'd have an open mind.

I've never hated McGuire, but he certainly is a very easy guy to dislike. He seems genuinely decent, just totally lame and annoying when he tries to be funny, clever, or insightful. As an analyst you have to be one of those 3 things sometimes so I think he's just plain bad as a TV personality.

Certainly knows a ton about hockey.

Hamsterkill
04-23-2017, 09:06 PM
Knowing a lot about hockey isn't the only qualification for a GM, though. He hasn't held a managerial role since he was an assistant GM for Hartford in the 90s.

Kyle
04-23-2017, 10:07 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't be excited about it at all, but I wouldn't hate it if my team was already poorly managed.

In fairness once you're down that road you might as well hire any one of dozens of ex-players as GM.

two24four
04-24-2017, 01:48 PM
Joe Thornton was playing through a torn MCL and ACL. Tough SOB.

Kyle
04-24-2017, 03:10 PM
Joe Thornton was playing through a torn MCL and ACL. Tough SOB.

Wow. A moment of silence for his liver.

Kyle
04-28-2017, 06:52 AM
Its like Ovechkin is doomed to watch Crosby accomplish all the things he never will in the playoffs. Its sad because Ovy always plays really well against Sid and the Pens but Crosby always manages to be a bit better.

Wrong start for Washington for sure. They're writing the book so far through two rounds on how to totally nullify your own top seed and home ice advantage.

Doctego
04-29-2017, 07:28 PM
Once again, Philly can't beat the Devils. I can't complain, though. I'd like to see them get a solid forward. Any thoughts on who you guys like?

two24four
04-29-2017, 07:38 PM
So glad that did not happen last year to the Leafs. Phew. Philly going from 13 to 2 is crazy.

Nolan Patrick has been the top prospect all year. Nico Hischier is a close 2nd. Either one could go 1st. They are not on the same level as McDavid/Eichel or Matthews/Laine though.

phaneuf6
04-29-2017, 08:18 PM
I'd take Hischier. New Jersey has an interesting off season ahead... expansion draft, plus first overall pick and potential Kovalchuk situation.

Kyle
04-29-2017, 08:28 PM
Red Wings finish 6th, draft 9th. lol the one year the team sucks ass they still get hosed on draft position.

Hamsterkill
04-29-2017, 08:41 PM
Red Wings finish 6th, draft 9th. lol the one year the team sucks ass they still get hosed on draft position.

Eh, the Sabres have been getting hosed on draft position pretty much every year since they started missing the playoffs. It's Buffalo, though -- they're used to it, lol

Kyle
04-29-2017, 08:52 PM
Eh, the Sabres have been getting hosed on draft position pretty much every year since they started missing the playoffs. It's Buffalo, though -- they're used to it, lol

Haha, can't argue that. I've honestly paid no attention to the lottery system for years but now that my hometown team is a part of the fuckery, its hard not to notice how silly it all sounds. That said it seems to certainly do its job of generating buzz. Kind of like the issue with division based seeding. Makes little sense competitively but it is exciting if nothing else.

two24four
04-29-2017, 08:59 PM
I'd take Hischier. New Jersey has an interesting off season ahead... expansion draft, plus first overall pick and potential Kovalchuk situation.

I'd lean towards him as well but Patrick is a two way centre who I feel might be what NJ wants more.

Canucks and Red Wings were both 1 number off from winning it.

phaneuf6
04-29-2017, 09:06 PM
Taylor Hall had a great tweet tonight that he is adding "NHL Draft lottery specialist" to his resume. :lol:

Kyle
04-29-2017, 09:40 PM
I swear the Pens defense on the Caps first goal is the weirdest thing I've seen in the playoffs so far this year. Did they forget Niskanen isn't on their team anymore?

https://www.nhl.com/video/niskanens-power-play-strike/t-289074366/c-51763903

How often in an NHL season does a penalty killing team fall asleep so horribly? Especially in the playoffs? The saddest thing is all 4 Pens players were being occupied by only two caps. Any one of the other 3 could've had a 1v1 with the goalie. Just weird because it was unprovoked, Washington did nothing to draw them in, the Pens just bit on a trap that wasn't there. I'm sure the puck took a weird bounce or two during that scrum but there's no reason the 3rd/4th Pens players should've gone anywhere but the front of their own net.

Oh well, Caps are getting railroaded. Hard to see them winning 4/5 games with 3 in Pittsburgh.

Hamsterkill
04-29-2017, 10:30 PM
The Caps need Holtby to outplay Fleury if they're going to win. As near as I can tell, that hasn't happened yet.

Kyle
04-30-2017, 01:27 AM
Yeah, you can argue that's been the difference so far. Fleury has had two very busy games and played great in both. The Caps could've come out with a big lead earlier today if not for him.

Ovy seems to be suffering from Peyton Manning syndrome. Clearly better by far than everybody except one single player over an entire generation (Tom Brady) and that single player happens to win everything, especially in head to head match ups .

If Ovy ever does get it done in the playoffs, I sure hope its this year or sometime soon when he can be a major part of the run. Winning it at 36 after a 30 pt season won't feel the same or earn the same respect. He's a 1st ballot guy regardless but this kind of stuff decides if you go down as a true legend or just a guy near the top of some categories. You can't be the second best of a generation and let well over a decade go by without an ECF trip.

Doctego
04-30-2017, 10:22 AM
Without wanting to hijack this hockey thread too much with football, I wanted to point out that Manning actually has a winning record against Brady in the playoffs (3-2). Brady won the last 4 regular season matchups (and has a winning record against Manning overall), but Manning won the last 3 playoff games. Your point about Ovechkin is well taken, though. He's the Pens' bitch.