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Dubz
06-13-2015, 10:57 AM
Figured i may as well get this one going with the mock drafts floating around. This one has the Leafs taking Provorov in the #4 spot. I thought Hanifin was the easy #1 dman in this draft.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/damien-coxs-2015-nhl-mock-draft-top-10/

Dubz
06-13-2015, 11:15 AM
Its so subjective i suppose. Crouse at 4 in one and 14 in another. Theres a few in this link including Bob.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2015-draft/prospect-rankings/

Hamsterkill
06-13-2015, 02:04 PM
Figured i may as well get this one going with the mock drafts floating around. This one has the Leafs taking Provorov in the #4 spot. I thought Hanifin was the easy #1 dman in this draft.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/damien-coxs-2015-nhl-mock-draft-top-10/

The top defensemen in the draft are actually fairly tightly packed depending on what a team is looking for. Hanifin is the most developed and pro-ready right now without a doubt. Everything I've seen on Provorov indicates he could have a higher potential than Hanifin, though, especially offensively. The same goes for Werenski as well, who may be the most gifted. Any of those three could end up being the best D in this draft, really.

That said, it would surprise me if Hanifin didn't get picked first just because teams are way more inclined to pick more sure-thing defensemen than higher-potential ones.

boredguy
06-13-2015, 03:37 PM
All you need to know about that first one is that it's written by Damien Cox.

Kyle
06-14-2015, 01:53 AM
That decision to play that puck by Bishop might haunt the Lightning for a long time. Hedman clearly had the inside track on that puck and arrived way before Sharp. Bishop had no reason at all to leave his net.

Total Hasek play there.

two24four
06-14-2015, 02:45 PM
All you need to know about that first one is that it's written by Damien Cox.

Agreed 150%.

two24four
06-23-2015, 09:54 AM
Just for fun I'm going to try and guess a mock draft. Keep in mind 1 trade could throw everything off. I'm sure I will be mostly wrong outside of the top 2, I feel good about those two picks ha.

1st- Oilers- McDavid- C
2nd- Sabres- Eichel- C
3rd- Yotes- Strome- C
4th- Leafs- Marner- RW/C (I really could see them taking anyone of Strome, Marner, Hanifin or Provorov)
5th- Canes- Hanifin- D
6th- Devils- Provorov- D
7th- Flyers- Crouse- LW
8th- Blue Jackets- Rantanen- RW
9th- Sharks- Zacha- C
10th- Avs- Barzal- C
11th- Panthers- Meier- RW
12th Stars- Werenski- D
13th- Kings- Merkley- C/RW
14th- Bruins- Connor- LW/C
15th- Flames- Konecny- RW
16th- Oilers- Samsonov- G
17th- Jets- Zboril- D
18th- Sens- White- C
19th- Wings- Eriksson Ek- C
20th- Wild- Svechnikov- RW
21st- Sabres- Carlo- D
22nd- Caps- Bittner- LW
23rd- Nucks- Gurianov- RW
24th- Leafs- Kylington- D
25th- Jets- Debrusk- LW
26th- Habs- Chabot- D
27th- Ducks-Carlsson- D
28th- Lightning- Boeser- RW
29th- Flyers- Sprong- RW
30th- Yotes- Roy- D

I'll say this, he won't go early or anything, I'm thinking anywhere from the 3rd-7th rounds but D- Cameron Lizotte is my sleeper of this draft. He wont put up big points but he's a big kid at 6'2 200 lbs who is solid in his own end, hit's like a truck (might be the hardest hitter in this draft) and will fight anyone, big time leader.

b_illin
06-23-2015, 10:10 AM
If Barzal is available at 10 I would be asking the Avs what it would take on top of Gardiner to get that pick! (fuck O'Rielly!)

two24four
06-23-2015, 10:22 AM
If Barzal is available at 10 I would be asking the Avs what it would take on top of Gardiner to get that pick! (fuck O'Rielly!)

I would think they would want the 24th pick for sure. Doubt they would want to go from a top 10 pick to no 1st round pick at all. They would really have to like Gardiner (or whoever they are getting) as well.

If they wanted to trade up from 24th it might be easier to trade up into the middle of the 1st round and try to get one of Merkley or Konecny etc.... if they want another forward.

boredguy
06-23-2015, 05:21 PM
Can't see Devils going D even if Provorov is there, they're forwards are bad and they have basically have no decent forward prospects. I'd think they'd go Zacha or Barzal, then the BJ's grab Provorov.

Also i'd easily trade 24+Gardiner for 10 without caring who was taken before then.

Hamsterkill
06-23-2015, 05:27 PM
Can't see Devils going D even if Provorov is there, they're forwards are bad and they have basically have no decent forward prospects. I'd think they'd go Zacha or Barzal, then the BJ's grab Provorov.

Also i'd easily trade 24+Gardiner for 10 without caring who was taken before then.
Something to note is that Shero was never shy about going D in the draft despite being thin at forward organizationally. Shero was always the type to address organizational depth in later rounds or through trade and take (perceived) best player available in the first round. Whether they think that's Provorov or someone else, who knows.

boredguy
06-23-2015, 07:32 PM
Well, he doesn't have a Crosby and Malkin with the Devils, gonna be harder to ignore forwards when your top scoring threat is Adam Henrique.

two24four
06-23-2015, 08:58 PM
Lot of the insiders are saying ARI has at least two good offers for the 3rd pick. Friedman said he wouldn't be surprised if the Blue Jackets were one of the teams, he thinks they want one of the d-man at the top.

two24four
06-24-2015, 10:32 AM
Here is Sam Cosentino's mock draft. He's the colour commentator for the Jr games on Sportsnet for those who don't know.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sam-cosentinos-2015-nhl-mock-draft/

Kyle
06-24-2015, 12:54 PM
The cap is nearly 2 mill under most projections. Really blows up a lot of the hypothetical scenarios people have been bouncing around based on a 73 mill cap - it's only 71.4.

Only a raise of 2.3mill, instead of the 4 mill raise projected. On the bright side, hopefully that means the NHL isn't over-inflating on its way to another lockout.


Well, he doesn't have a Crosby and Malkin with the Devils, gonna be harder to ignore forwards when your top scoring threat is Adam Henrique.

Yeah, I can't see the Devils passing up this opportunity to address their scoring issues. This is likely the highest they'll draft and in a very deep draft.

Hamsterkill
06-24-2015, 02:01 PM
I guess the NHL is formally exploring expansion now that Vegas appears on track to be the first. I wonder if Portland will actually end up being the second since Seattle can't seem to get the ball rolling on a suitable arena and Portland already has one. Seattle has the bigger population, but Portland is probably more familiar with hockey, with Winterhawks playing there (closest hockey team to Seattle is the Everett Silvertips 25 miles away, I believe).

b_illin
06-24-2015, 02:07 PM
Quebec City I would think although maybe the interest is not as strong at an $0.80 dollar. (a 2nd team in the GTA is the most obvious place...but that would make too much sense for Bettman's Western US dream)

Hamsterkill
06-24-2015, 02:24 PM
Quebec City I would think although maybe the interest is not as strong at an $0.80 dollar.
It could happen, though I think it might take some time. Between the Canadian dollar's struggles and a desire to even the conferences, I think they might wait for QC come in a following expansion (perhaps once Seattle's ready as well?). Or they could wait and see if Florida would really ever consider relocating.

b_illin
06-24-2015, 02:51 PM
I don't think there should be any other expansion after this - the league will be at 32 teams and I see no need to be any larger than that.

(I'd actually rather see contraction frankly - delete two current teams)

Hamsterkill
06-24-2015, 03:15 PM
Meh, I don't mind the NHL getting bigger. I know talent dilution is talked about as a danger, but I really don't see that as much of a problem.

Kyle
06-24-2015, 03:42 PM
You're probably right Hamster, but I do see that as an issue. I think too many teams lack a marquee superstar as is. I'm with _Illin on absolutely no more than 32. I think 30 would've been ideal given the available talent.

Yes, the league is more balanced than ever, there's more good players than ever, but there's also less difference-makers than ever (Directly due to the fact that when everyone is good, it's harder to be THAT much better than them). Hockey is way more fun watching guys like Toews, Kane, Ovy, Crosby, Datsyuk, Benn, etc. and you don't want a situation where hardly half the teams have an allstar of that caliber. That means half the games will be boring to the less-hardcore fans.

Hockey already has a severe issue with marketing (or failing to market) their players. Every team has to have a face(or faces), and right now a lot of teams don't really have a recognizable one, and the more teams you add the worse that gets.

two24four
06-24-2015, 03:57 PM
As long as Bettman is in charge I don't see the league going below 30 teams.

chgorman
06-24-2015, 07:07 PM
The league shouldn't be expanding or contracting. Move FLA to QC or the GTA or Seattle/Portland and move ARI to Vegas. That's the move.

Kyle
06-24-2015, 07:10 PM
The league shouldn't be expanding or contracting. Move FLA to QC or the GTA or Seattle/Portland and move ARI to Vegas. That's the move.

Well I think it's pretty silly to have uneven conferences. That's the only reason adding/dropping a team seems a bit necessary.

8/15 is .533% to make the playoffs, 8/16 is 50% to make the playoffs. It's a small but still notable difference that shouldn't exist.

b_illin
06-24-2015, 08:42 PM
^ Agreed

Kyle
06-25-2015, 06:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZTbrKbepWg

:lol: Poor guy.

wendel_
06-26-2015, 08:25 AM
Soderberg deal with Colorado done - 5 years, 4.75 per.

I'm still getting used to the fact that this calibre of player makes 4-5 million. But given the market, that number seems right I guess. O'reilly is as good as gone with this then, right?

b_illin
06-26-2015, 08:34 AM
WOW!!

wendel_
06-26-2015, 08:52 AM
Lehner and Legwand to Buffalo for the 21st pick looks like it's done too

I like that move for both sides - I'm a fan of Lehner and he will get a good shot with Buffalo. And getting a first rounder for Ottawa is solid.

phaneuf6
06-26-2015, 08:55 AM
Hearing O'Reilly will be dealt today.

two24four
06-26-2015, 08:56 AM
I hate to say it, but I like that deal for Ottawa.

It's draft day!!!! I love NHL draft day. Think a lot is going to happen today/tonight.

Hamsterkill
06-26-2015, 09:31 AM
Lehner and Legwand to Buffalo for the 21st pick looks like it's done too

I like that move for both sides - I'm a fan of Lehner and he will get a good shot with Buffalo. And getting a first rounder for Ottawa is solid.
Guess that means Buffalo likely won't be getting O'Reilly. I might have preferred Buffalo get Talbot instead, too. Use the early second rounder to get Talbot and still have the 21st to try for O'Reilly or just use might have been better. Not a bad move, though, just something of an overpayment since Legwand isn't really worth anything.

b_illin
06-26-2015, 10:14 AM
Great deal for Ottawa :(

two24four
06-26-2015, 11:41 AM
Jeff O'Neil just made a good point on the radio about how hard it is to draft 18 year olds and trying to guess how good they will be in their career or even what type of player they will be. He said when he was drafted he was drafted as a playmaking pass first centre, then he said when he was in his prime in his mid 20's he was a shoot first winger for the Canes.

WIS
06-26-2015, 12:39 PM
Mike Reilly signs with the Wild.

boredguy
06-26-2015, 01:34 PM
Seems bad for Buffalo, probably coulda gotten Talbot or Lack instead for 21 and both of them are better than Lehner.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 01:53 PM
Yeah, feels like Buffalo got the horrible end of this deal.

Yet again, the 1st round draft pick takes another hit in value.

two24four
06-26-2015, 01:53 PM
I don't think any of the goalies being talked about in trades are worth a 1st, Lehner as well. Ottawa made out great.

phaneuf6
06-26-2015, 01:58 PM
I don't think it's bad for either side. Lehner could still pan out (he's young and was always highly thought of) and Legwand brings a veteran presence and helps Buffalo get to the cap floor. Buys time for Reinhart as well.

Hamsterkill
06-26-2015, 01:58 PM
Yes, I agree it's a bit of an overpayment. Still, I have to believe T. Murray knows what he was doing here considering how familiar he must be with Lehner...

two24four
06-26-2015, 02:17 PM
Sounds like CGY is close to getting Hamilton from Boston.

phaneuf6
06-26-2015, 02:19 PM
Done deal. Hamilton is a Flame. Wow.

WIS
06-26-2015, 02:21 PM
Done deal. Hamilton is a Flame. Wow.

Burkie going after Kessel pieces :lol:

phaneuf6
06-26-2015, 02:28 PM
All picks for Hamilton. Maybe they`ll swap picks for Kessel now to complete the circle :lol:

boredguy
06-26-2015, 02:29 PM
Apparently only draft picks going the other way. Strange trade for Boston.

two24four
06-26-2015, 02:31 PM
I think Boston wants to move in the 3rd spot.

phaneuf6
06-26-2015, 02:31 PM
1st and 2 2nds

WIS
06-26-2015, 02:32 PM
All picks for Hamilton. Maybe they`ll swap picks for Kessel now to complete the circle :lol:

My thoughts exactly! Burke knows he's available. Monahan?

boredguy
06-26-2015, 02:34 PM
Horrible trade for Boston.

Hamsterkill
06-26-2015, 02:37 PM
1st and 2 2nds
That's a bargain for Calgary.

EDIT: Well, maybe not as much of a bargain as I thought. The offer sheet compensation would likely have been a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. I suppose 3rd -> 2nd is a decent premium to pay to ensure you don't have to compete with other bids, though.

Boston was likely resigned that they were going to lose him to an offer sheet since they weren't going to have the cap room for him.

WIS
06-26-2015, 02:38 PM
Yeah not sure why they gave up on him when Chara is on the decline.

phaneuf6
06-26-2015, 02:41 PM
The Bruins have given up arguably two of the best young players (at their positions) in the league in the last two years.

Hamsterkill
06-26-2015, 02:53 PM
The Bruins have given up arguably two of the best young players (at their positions) in the league in the last two years.
Both of whom were prizes from the Kessel trade.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 03:22 PM
What's Boston thinking!! If Lehner was worth a 1st, Hamilton should've been worth a fucking blow job and 3 firsts.

two24four
06-26-2015, 03:33 PM
Sounds like maybe Lucic to LA.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 03:34 PM
From no significant source at all, I'm hearing Lucic to the Habs?! WTF? Any validity at all or is my friend simply misinformed?

That really does just seem to exist in the realm of "not possible" but the NHL is a business so you never know. Everyone on Montreal hates Lucic so bad though. I doubt its true.

WIS
06-26-2015, 03:42 PM
Nope, Lucic to LA very close.

Hamsterkill
06-26-2015, 03:45 PM
Nope, Lucic to LA very close.
There must be a significant contract going the other way. LA doesn't have much cap space either.

two24four
06-26-2015, 03:47 PM
Sounds like Boston will get a 1st from LA in part of the package. I really think Boston wants the 3rd pick. They would have picks 13, 14 and 15 with this trade.

WIS
06-26-2015, 03:56 PM
Martin Jones part of the deal headed to Boston.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 04:15 PM
They're saying Collin Miller now is going to Boston. One of the only 2 AHL players ever to win hardest shot and fastest skater at the same competition. Shoots over 105 MPH. Seems to be a promising offensive D-man. 50 pts in 70 games this year. 19 goals.

Hamsterkill
06-26-2015, 04:28 PM
I'm honestly impressed Boston was willing to trade Lucic at all.

So are we thinking Boston wants to send all three of their picks (along with Jones possibly) to get Arizona's 3rd overall?

boredguy
06-26-2015, 04:32 PM
Bruins go from a horrible return for Hamilton to fleecing the Kings, strange day.

Ah just saw there's a large amount of salary retained on Lucic, not quite as bad for LA as i thought.

boredguy
06-26-2015, 04:41 PM
Apparently Oilers offered 16, 33 and 57 for Hamilton and the Bruins went with the weaker Flames offer cause they're butthurt about Chiarelli, lol.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 04:45 PM
Bruins go from a horrible return for Hamilton to fleecing the Kings, strange day.

Ah just saw there's a large amount of salary retained on Lucic, not quite as bad for LA as i thought.

Now it makes sense. That's the magic ticket Hamster was mentioning that LA needed to make this work cap-wise.

It also explains why Colin Miller had to enter the equation. Because Lucic for a 1st+Jones was already a perfectly good return for Boston.

Collin Miller is a pretty hefty price to pay just to stay under the cap this year. They got pretty hosed even with the cap retained by Boston.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 04:46 PM
Apparently Oilers offered 16, 33 and 57 for Hamilton and the Bruins went with the weaker Flames offer cause they're butthurt about Chiarelli, lol.

If true, that is just ridiculous! Boston still did okay today overall thanks to the Lucic deal but man, imagine if they had made that deal instead + the Lucic deal. They'd be sitting on a literal gold mine.

Rocklobster
06-26-2015, 05:21 PM
Bos wanted Nurse from Edm too but they said no and shut down talks. That's why they went with cgy

two24four
06-26-2015, 05:32 PM
I wonder if the Bruins would move Malcolm Subban tonight in a package now that they have Jones.

two24four
06-26-2015, 05:47 PM
They are saying on Sportsnet that Boston may move Rask.

WIS
06-26-2015, 05:48 PM
They are saying on Sportsnet that Boston may move Rask.

That'd be huge. What are they in rebuild mode!

two24four
06-26-2015, 05:51 PM
Kypreos.


O'Reilly to #sabres close.

two24four
06-26-2015, 07:51 PM
Wow Griffin Reinhart to the Oilers. Very nice trade for them. They'll have Nurse and Reinhart to build their D around. He also played Jr in Edmonton.

chgorman
06-26-2015, 08:01 PM
Well I think it's pretty silly to have uneven conferences. That's the only reason adding/dropping a team seems a bit necessary.

8/15 is .533% to make the playoffs, 8/16 is 50% to make the playoffs. It's a small but still notable difference that shouldn't exist.


So like I say, move FLA to Seattle/Portland. Problem solved, without expansion.

Kyle
06-26-2015, 08:35 PM
So like I say, move FLA to Seattle/Portland. Problem solved, without expansion.

For some reason, I thought it was a 16/15 split not 16/14, even though I knew there's only 30 teams. Just did funky math in my head.

That said, uneven divisions present a bit of an issue as well, though. Not as much, but enough of one to justify expanding to a format where all divisions have 8 teams

Placing in the top 3 out of 7 is notably easier than the top 3 out of 8.

boredguy
06-26-2015, 09:36 PM
Boston seems to have gone full retard today, couple of huge reaches. If those are the guys they were gonna grab they should traded down.

two24four
06-26-2015, 09:38 PM
Boston seems to have gone full retard today, couple of huge reaches. If those are the guys they were gonna grab they should traded down.

Yeah I'm not sure what they were doing, they threw the draft off with their picks.

WIS
06-26-2015, 09:58 PM
O'Reilly wanted a contract similar to Kessel :lol: no wonder Sakic shipped him.

two24four
06-26-2015, 10:29 PM
I think the Flyers were ready to run up to make their pick when Provorov fell to them.

Hamsterkill
06-27-2015, 12:08 AM
Wow, I really like that O'Reilly trade for Buffalo. Grigorenko was getting ruined in Buffalo and Zadorov was proving troublesome. Figured Colorado would insist on a 1st rounder for O'Reilly, though. I wonder if he steps into the captaincy immediately or if they leave it with Gionta for now.

Kyle
06-27-2015, 12:45 AM
Wow, I really like that O'Reilly trade for Buffalo. Grigorenko was getting ruined in Buffalo and Zadorov was proving troublesome. Figured Colorado would insist on a 1st rounder for O'Reilly, though. I wonder if he steps into the captaincy immediately or if they leave it with Gionta for now.

Would probably be for the better to not have this upcoming season on O'Reilly's resume as captain. For the obvious reason of keeping the city on his side after a likely poor season, but also to make sure he's a good fit.

Not that I'd be THAT surprised to see Buffalo improve a ton immediately, but it's still likely a bottom 10-15 season and I see them storming hard a year or two after that.

Hamsterkill
06-27-2015, 01:42 AM
I don't think anyone in Buffalo is realistically expecting playoffs this year. The city will give him slack for at least a season as long as he looks like he's working hard. Hell, we're talking about the city where many think that Kaleta still belongs on an NHL team because he "tries hard".

I could see them waiting a season to see how the leadership dynamic works between ROR, Eichel and the other youth and maybe dangle the captaincy as an incentive for ROR to re-sign.

Doctego
06-27-2015, 06:10 AM
maybe dangle the captaincy as an incentive for ROR to re-sign.

That's what I think.

I haven't said this too often but I'm happy with Philly's draft so far. There's a different energy with Hextall running the show. I would have liked to see them be able to get Samsonov with their 2nd 1st rounder but Konecny is a nice consolation prize. It's nice to see them draft a player with lots of skill rather than the same size player that they normally take.

two24four
06-27-2015, 08:21 AM
That's what I think.

I haven't said this too often but I'm happy with Philly's draft so far. There's a different energy with Hextall running the show. I would have liked to see them be able to get Samsonov with their 2nd 1st rounder but Konecny is a nice consolation prize. It's nice to see them draft a player with lots of skill rather than the same size player that they normally take.

They might have got a steal with Provorov at 7. A lot of scouts thought he could have went top 5. It looked like Hextall was speed walking up to make the pick when they showed him.

I think NJ could have traded down a bit and still got Zacha.

Everyone use to talk shit about Garth Snow, not anymore. He's been one of the best drafting GM's the last few years. He went from no first round picks in this draft to trading up and getting two players in Barzal and Beauvillier. Last year he got Dal Colle at 5th then traded up for Ho-Sang at 28th. He loves the CHL players and will do anything it seems to get a player he likes.

Dubz
06-27-2015, 12:01 PM
O'Reilly wanted a contract similar to Kessel :lol: no wonder Sakic shipped him.


Will he get that in BUF? Who's :lol: now?

Dubz
06-27-2015, 12:03 PM
Boston seems to have gone full retard today, couple of huge reaches. If those are the guys they were gonna grab they should traded down.


Yeah I'm not sure what they were doing, they threw the draft off with their picks.

They don't have many friends at those tables....

Dubz
06-27-2015, 12:05 PM
Bos wanted Nurse from Edm too but they said no and shut down talks. That's why they went with cgy

perfect example why the last post hahahaha

Dubz
06-27-2015, 12:07 PM
Bruins go from a horrible return for Hamilton to fleecing the Kings, strange day.

Ah just saw there's a large amount of salary retained on Lucic, not quite as bad for LA as i thought.

I think Lucic will fit in well in LA. Pretty ggod deal for both sides as of now.

Dubz
06-27-2015, 02:09 PM
As for the Leafs they couldnt go wrong at #4 (nice mock 24) Then the big trade back passing on Konency makes you wonder if they missed out on a stud. I think they had their eye on Dermott but could be wrong. The three dmen taken before weigh less....sure they are taller and will possibly fill out more but i wouldnt use that as a factor. I think they got the guy they wanted and added Bracco http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/prospect-of-interest-jeremy-bracco/

and Martins Dzierkals who clearly needs to be groomed in NA. As a Leafs fan i am more confident in our organization about getting that done then i ever have been.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=239362

All in all they went for speed and skill over size and grit. They did add a few big guys and the back end - Stephen Desrocher (2014 eligble, 19yr old) and Andrew Nielsen about 10 spots later than projected. Lingren is a great sleeper int he 4th and played with Nylander last year...wow thats some good scouting. Getting that Dmytro kid out of the Q in the 5th is a great gamble. Mr. irrelevant #185 for the buds is Nikita Korostelev and was ranked as high as 2nd round....what a steal!!

Im overly happy with this draft. Now to keep the future picks in Toronto so they can build that pool and become a competitive hockey club in the future.

WIS
06-27-2015, 02:23 PM
Dubnyk signs 6 years for $25 million.

Dubz
06-27-2015, 03:10 PM
Good for him. Bernier should expect the same or leave town. Holtby is in for a big raise!!

two24four
06-27-2015, 03:48 PM
Pronger's contract was traded to ARI. Best part is they had to call him and ask him to waive his NMC haha. He works for the NHL now.

Hamsterkill
06-27-2015, 04:57 PM
Will he get that in BUF? Who's :lol: now?
He could get close. I could see them signing him to a 7+m/yr contract. Murray said he already understood that he'll likely have to make ROR the highest paid Sabre in order to re-sign him.

Pronger's contract was traded to ARI. Best part is they had to call him and ask him to waive his NMC haha. He works for the NHL now.

Looks like ARI intends to tank again. Perhaps in hopes of drafting hometown kid Auston Matthews next year. Kind of a big risk, considering last place only has a 20% chance at him, and potentially picking as low as 4th next year.

b_illin
06-27-2015, 09:55 PM
Seeing as they don't know what rink they're actually going to play in next season I'm sure they're not sweating it too much lol

Hamsterkill
06-27-2015, 10:29 PM
Seeing as they don't know what rink they're actually going to play in next season I'm sure they're not sweating it too much lol

They'll be playing in Gila River at least until the court battle is over, which should at least last through next season.

b_illin
06-28-2015, 04:17 PM
Given the cost to acquire Talbot I'd say the Sabres got hooped on that Lehner trade!

Doctego
06-28-2015, 04:41 PM
A few observations that I made from the draft. It appears that the experts doing the draft on NBCS had about 60 players with first round grades. It also seemed like every female that accompanied the players was at least hot and usually stunning, unless the same girls kept cycling around the room depending on who was getting drafted next. I swear that the only ugly women were the mothers.

two24four
06-29-2015, 11:07 AM
Looks like Buffalo is going to buy out Hodgson.

Hamsterkill
06-29-2015, 12:39 PM
Looks like Buffalo is going to buy out Hodgson.
Hm. That's a bit disappointing. His contract was always going to be too high, but I think last season was a fluke and would have liked to see how Bylsma handled him.

phaneuf6
06-29-2015, 12:47 PM
Niemi inks with Dallas 3 years, 4.5 per.

Hamsterkill
06-29-2015, 01:10 PM
I'm wondering what the Ducks are planning to do with their trio of NHL-quality goalies... I can't imagine they acquired Khudobin to play in the AHL and it would be difficult to believe they want to give Gibson another full year in the minors (minus injury call-ups, anyway). I saw Murray said Gibson wasn't getting traded. Maybe they intend to send Khudobin or Andersen to San Jose?

phaneuf6
06-29-2015, 01:14 PM
I'm wondering what the Ducks are planning to do with their trio of NHL-quality goalies... I can't imagine they acquired Khudobin to play in the AHL and it would be difficult to believe they want to give Gibson another full year in the minors (minus injury call-ups, anyway). I saw Murray said Gibson wasn't getting traded. Maybe they intend to send Khudobin or Andersen to San Jose?

Gibson can still be sent down so it is an option... there seems to be a ton of similar situations brewing right now like this... Boston, Dallas, Anaheim, Carolina to a lesser extent.

Dubz
06-29-2015, 01:17 PM
Niemi inks with Dallas 3 years, 4.5 per.

Wow 10.5 million for goalies?

Dubz
06-29-2015, 01:19 PM
Pretty good read here. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2015-nhl-draft-mcdavid-oilers-sweater-bruins-lucic-lack-oreilly-canucks-leafs-marner-hanifin-hall-hamilton-lehner-talbot-bieksa/

Dubz
06-29-2015, 01:21 PM
I'm wondering what the Ducks are planning to do with their trio of NHL-quality goalies... I can't imagine they acquired Khudobin to play in the AHL and it would be difficult to believe they want to give Gibson another full year in the minors (minus injury call-ups, anyway). I saw Murray said Gibson wasn't getting traded. Maybe they intend to send Khudobin or Andersen to San Jose?

Wow he is their highest paid goalie

boredguy
06-29-2015, 02:04 PM
Kings terminate Richard's contract? What in the fuckity fuck.

Dubz
06-29-2015, 02:33 PM
Kings terminate Richard's contract? What in the fuckity fuck.

Good, maybe you will stop trying to trade him to me now lol j/k

He will get a job. Hes only 30

boredguy
06-29-2015, 03:11 PM
Who gives a crap about Richards :p It's about the cap and if this becomes the new way to get rid of bad contracts. If this is for something ticky tacky and it's allowed to go through it's gonna screw the league up huge.

Kyle
06-29-2015, 03:14 PM
Who gives a crap about Richards :p It's about the cap and if this becomes the new way to get rid of bad contracts. If this is for something ticky tacky and it's allowed to go through it's gonna screw the league up huge.

We have to wait and see what their reasoning was before getting riled up. I have a feeling there was a better reason for this than something tacky.

Hamsterkill
06-29-2015, 03:40 PM
We have to wait and see what their reasoning was before getting riled up. I have a feeling there was a better reason for this than something tacky.
I must say I have to wonder what he could have done that would be bad enough to warrant contract termination without ever being suspended first.

Dubz
06-29-2015, 03:41 PM
The only thing ive read was that he wasnt conditioning at their request for him to do so. No doubt this case will set precedence for future (if there are any) situations like this.

Last line of this article says it all

http://www.letsgoflyers.net/2015/06/29/breaking-flyers-send-zac-rinaldo-to-boston/

WIS
06-29-2015, 05:31 PM
Looks like Buffalo is going to buy out Hodgson.

Now do you see the Leafs taking a chance on him perhaps?

phaneuf6
06-29-2015, 05:33 PM
I would imagine it's drug related. I'll see what I can dig up. His agent has known this was coming for some time now.

Doctego
06-29-2015, 06:14 PM
Who gives a crap about Richards :p It's about the cap and if this becomes the new way to get rid of bad contracts. If this is for something ticky tacky and it's allowed to go through it's gonna screw the league up huge.

I think that, if they cut him last year, they could have had no cap hit. By waiting until when they did, they have a cap hit of around $1.5M/year for the next 10 years.

Doctego
06-29-2015, 06:20 PM
Philly gets a 2017 3rd rounder from Boston for Rinaldo and there's no mention of it here? You guys sleeping?:lol:

I would've taken a bag of pucks for him and been satisfied. That's a great deal for Philly.

Dubz
06-29-2015, 06:43 PM
The only thing ive read was that he wasnt conditioning at their request for him to do so. No doubt this case will set precedence for future (if there are any) situations like this.

Last line of this article says it all

http://www.letsgoflyers.net/2015/06/29/breaking-flyers-send-zac-rinaldo-to-boston/


Philly gets a 2017 3rd rounder from Boston for Rinaldo and there's no mention of it here? You guys sleeping?:lol:

I would've taken a bag of pucks for him and been satisfied. That's a great deal for Philly.

Ya Hextall is really pissing me off lately!!!

Dubz
06-29-2015, 06:47 PM
From what ive heard Richards "shouldn't" be able to be terminated and that cases like this are always overturned. Apparently the facts are out there but are not being released.

Doctego
06-29-2015, 06:53 PM
I can't find the new article but this is an old article that is similar:

http://thehockeywriters.com/dean-lombardis-big-mistake/

Doctego
06-29-2015, 06:55 PM
Here's a newer one:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2509324-myopic-los-angeles-kings-pay-massive-price-with-mike-richards-buyout

two24four
06-29-2015, 09:19 PM
Lidstrom, Pronger, Housley and Fedorov all were voted into the HHOF today.

I know not everyone liked the way he played, but I'm really happy to see Pronger get in. He was one of the first players I liked as a kid when he played Jr for Peterborough in the early 90's. I remember going to games with my Dad and him saying "watch this skinny #6 kid play, he's going places if he puts weight on". He was 6'6 and about 150 lbs at the time but you could tell he was better than everyone else. After that I couldn't stop watching "#6" every time he was on the ice something good happened for the Petes it seemed. I think he played no less than 30 mins a game his 2nd and last season in Jr.

I always made a point of following his career no matter where he was playing after that, Hartford, St. Louis, Edmonton, Anaheim, Philly and all the times he played for Canada. Every single team he played on he made them better. He only played one season in Edmonton but you could say they haven't been the same since he left.

First d-man to win the NHL MVP since Orr.

Kyle
06-29-2015, 09:25 PM
Not only did Pronger have the immediate impact on the teams he joined, but every single team he ever left in his career missed the playoffs the year he left. So he basically carried any of these teams.

Good to see Lidstrom and Federov get the nod together. What a treat it was watching them back in the day. Lidstrom could find Federov anywhere on the ice.

Hard not to get goosebumps thinking of Lidstrom's career. The next best generational talent after Lemieux/Gretzky, the class of an entire era of hockey, his resume speaks for itself. All things considering, Lidstrom is easily on my list of the 3 best defensemen of all time, and I wont bother ranking him vs Harvey because the eras are just too far apart. Obviously Orr is 1.

Harvey passed the torch to Orr passed the torch to Borque/Potvin passed the torch to Lidstrom/Pronger. Who's next? Obviously, Karlsson is a current front runner. And unlike Lidstrom and Borque, Karlsson didn't get shunned from Norris voting his first 5 years and has already won two before really even entering his prime.

two24four
06-29-2015, 09:46 PM
Doughty is next IMO, he hasn't won a Norris yet (he should have a few though) but he does everything that all the greats have done. He controls the pace of the game like Orr, Lidstrom, Pronger etc.... Without Doughty LA doesn't have two Stanley Cups. Doughty plays great in his own end as well, something Karlsson doesn't always do.

It's wild that Housley hasn't played a game since 2003 but he's just getting in now, he's 38th on the NHL's all time scoring list.

Kyle
06-29-2015, 10:07 PM
Yeah, I think Doughty's biggest deterrent from winning Norris trophies is the system he plays in. Put Doughty on a top 10 offense and he's 60+ any year easily. He's definitely the most dominant defensive defenseman in the NHL right now, and I think offensively he's every bit as good as a guy like Keith. Doughty was magic in the last cup run.

I was also giving Karlsson some major benefit of a doubt by assuming he is going to get a lot better defensively. But he is a few years older than I thought so maybe not.

b_illin
06-29-2015, 10:31 PM
I would imagine it's drug related. I'll see what I can dig up. His agent has known this was coming for some time now.

He did a lot of coke in his philly days

Jake
06-29-2015, 10:45 PM
Rumors are that Richards had trouble at the border

Kyle
06-30-2015, 03:43 AM
Rumors are that Richards had trouble at the border

Pierre Mcguire confirmed this.

chgorman
06-30-2015, 08:11 AM
Wow 10.5 million for goalies?

That's just nuts. I have to assume they'll either move Lehtonen or turn around and flip Niemi to someone else. It would be crazy for them to spend 1/7th of their cap space on two goalies, and I can't imagine either of them will be happy splitting time with each other. I really don't understand this move for DAL. There are some solid backups available at a much lower price that would still get the job done behind Lehtonen.

chgorman
06-30-2015, 08:17 AM
I'm wondering what the Ducks are planning to do with their trio of NHL-quality goalies... I can't imagine they acquired Khudobin to play in the AHL and it would be difficult to believe they want to give Gibson another full year in the minors (minus injury call-ups, anyway). I saw Murray said Gibson wasn't getting traded. Maybe they intend to send Khudobin or Andersen to San Jose?

I read somewhere that Murray made the move for Khudobin because he wants to be covered in case they have to deal with the injury issues they went through last season and now he's happy that they have 3 guys who can start for them on a regular basis if necessary. Sounds like Andersson will start with Khudobin as backup while Gibson starts in the minors. Sucks for Gibson, that's for sure. He should really be starting somewhere. Wouldn't be surprised to see one of them moved if a) ANA feels they need to fill a hole somewhere else, or b) another team's starter goes down early and comes calling for one of them.

chgorman
06-30-2015, 08:33 AM
Pronger hasn't even officially retired yet, heck, he was TRADED just a couple days ago... how is he even eligible for the HOF already? Perks of working for the league office I guess, haha

And for the record, I don't disagree with his induction, he was an absolute BEAST regardless of what team he was on, and I have no issue with him being inducted aside from the fact that he isn't even officially retired yet, yet Lidstrom still had to wait the customary 2-3 yrs AFTER retirement to be inducted.

No biggie, just find it funny.

phaneuf6
06-30-2015, 08:59 AM
Pronger hasn't even officially retired yet, heck, he was TRADED just a couple days ago... how is he even eligible for the HOF already? Perks of working for the league office I guess, haha

And for the record, I don't disagree with his induction, he was an absolute BEAST regardless of what team he was on, and I have no issue with him being inducted aside from the fact that he isn't even officially retired yet, yet Lidstrom still had to wait the customary 2-3 yrs AFTER retirement to be inducted.

No biggie, just find it funny.

He was granted an exception because of his unique situation. Really, it's a problem with the rules. A player should be able to retire and still collect his salary in situations where they have a serious injury like that.

Hamsterkill
06-30-2015, 09:48 AM
I read somewhere that Murray made the move for Khudobin because he wants to be covered in case they have to deal with the injury issues they went through last season and now he's happy that they have 3 guys who can start for them on a regular basis if necessary. Sounds like Andersson will start with Khudobin as backup while Gibson starts in the minors. Sucks for Gibson, that's for sure. He should really be starting somewhere. Wouldn't be surprised to see one of them moved if a) ANA feels they need to fill a hole somewhere else, or b) another team's starter goes down early and comes calling for one of them.
That could cause them some headaches down the line, though. Gibson arguably could be the best goalie of the three and he's the one that's going to have to sit in the minors whenever they're all healthy. I suppose the advantage is bringing down the cost of re-signing Gibson when he goes RFA.

As far as Dallas goes, I think they really intend to carry both goalies into the season. They have some breathing room cap-wise to be able to do that. I think they looked at Lehtonen's and Niemi's season last year and decided that neither are really workhorse-reliable goalies right now. They'll likely look to make a move after next season if they decide Campbell is ready to step into the league.

Crazy about Richards. Based on the way people who know what happened seem to be talking about it (or rather, not talking about it), it sounds like whatever happened at the border was either criminal or extremely shameful.

Dubz
06-30-2015, 10:10 AM
The Ducks are looking to deal one of them i suspect. I'd have to guess Andersen

The Stars are willing to carry both as they are fellow countrymen and they have the space right now.

Richards could have done something on the water to mess with border security. I do know if you get turned around at the border they can make you inadmissible until you file paperwork with customs. Failure to do so and trying to cross again will result in lifetime ban. Obviously there is alot of speculation atp. Its odd that they are not able to release the info

two24four
06-30-2015, 12:02 PM
Sounds like Boston traded Martin Jones to SJ for a 1st in 2016 and a prospect.

phaneuf6
06-30-2015, 12:35 PM
I can't get any comment from his agent. Everything on the DL.

Dubz
06-30-2015, 12:42 PM
Wow the Canes could have kept 2 million of Semins salary and still couldnt give him away. They are on the hook for 6 years after the buyout.

phaneuf6
06-30-2015, 12:50 PM
Hamilton extended in Calgary at 6 years 34.5 mill. Seems cheap for Boston to have given him away.

Kyle
06-30-2015, 12:51 PM
Hamilton extended in Calgary at 6 years 34.5 mill. Seems cheap for Boston to have given him away.


There's just no rhyme or reason to Boston's self-mutilation this offseason. Their roster is so shockingly horrible now and their prospect pool isn't much better. They had the best opportunity of any team to supplement their weaknesses in the draft and missed badly.

Dubz
06-30-2015, 01:13 PM
Well in all fairness BOS did load up on draft picks and prospects for the Lucic (+cash) and Hamilton (whom they couldnt afford to keep) The fricken Rinaldo thing was pretty dumb but they must have wanted him (or sweeny is just hexy's lilbitch)

Mike Riberio is gonna get signed? I understand he hasnt been convicted but thats some serious off ice issues he is dealing with.

Dubz
06-30-2015, 01:19 PM
Haha seen this on hf

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CImqxWIUMAANp80.jpg:large

Hamsterkill
06-30-2015, 03:56 PM
Is it just me or are the most interesting free agents this year likely to be players that were bought out?

wendel_
06-30-2015, 04:22 PM
Saad Paliotta and Brodhurst traded to Columbus for Anisimov, Dano, Morin, Tropp and a fourth.

wendel_
06-30-2015, 04:23 PM
I like the deal for both sides I think - Saad is an upgrade for Columbus, so makes sense for them. Anisimov is a good player though and has a more friendly cap hit than Saad will probably get, and Dano is a nice addition for them as well

Edit: McKenzie reporting that Saad wants 6 years, 6.5 per...no wonder Chicago went the trade route

two24four
06-30-2015, 04:57 PM
Didn't think Saad would be one of the players CHI would trade. Dano is a very nice player for them to get back.

Jackets are putting together a nice team.

two24four
06-30-2015, 05:02 PM
Bieksa to the Ducks for a 2nd round pick. Back together with Kesler.

I would think SJ will be pissed with this, they wanted him bad it sounded like at the draft.

Hamsterkill
06-30-2015, 05:32 PM
Huh... Interesting Chicago wanted Morin back after reluctantly trading him since they didn't have room to play him. I guess they're bracing to part with a good chunk of their roster.

Kyle
06-30-2015, 06:08 PM
Huh... Interesting Chicago wanted Morin back after reluctantly trading him since they didn't have room to play him. I guess they're bracing to part with a good chunk of their roster.

Yeah they'll be gutted. Saad is a huge loss.

Doctego
06-30-2015, 06:08 PM
He was granted an exception because of his unique situation. Really, it's a problem with the rules. A player should be able to retire and still collect his salary in situations where they have a serious injury like that.

Isn't another reason because Pronger was helping Philly with their cap situation? By not retiring, he was able to be stashed on LTIR. At least that's how I remembered it.

Kyle
06-30-2015, 06:35 PM
Isn't another reason because Pronger was helping Philly with their cap situation? By not retiring, he was able to be stashed on LTIR. At least that's how I remembered it.

AFAIK, Pronger wanted to retire and was always frustrated with not being able to.

Edit - Actually, looked it up and at least a few others apparently thought the same thing at the time. But I've also heard that Pronger was extremely frustrated over the last year or two and even during this recent trade, he wanted to just be retired.

b_illin
06-30-2015, 09:46 PM
AFAIK, Pronger wanted to retire and was always frustrated with not being able to.

Edit - Actually, looked it up and at least a few others apparently thought the same thing at the time. But I've also heard that Pronger was extremely frustrated over the last year or two and even during this recent trade, he wanted to just be retired.

Then he shouldn't have agreed to such a long contract!

Hamsterkill
07-01-2015, 11:20 AM
Just read that Eichel's officially decided to turn pro. Still needs to sign with the Sabres, though.

wendel_
07-01-2015, 12:02 PM
Kessel to Pittsburgh reportedly for kapanen, Harrington and a pick...

Dubz
07-01-2015, 12:06 PM
Kessel to Pittsburgh reportedly for kapanen, Harrington and a pick...

I hope Sutter is part of the deal.

two24four
07-01-2015, 12:07 PM
It's a 1st round pick. I like the deal.

phaneuf6
07-01-2015, 12:12 PM
If the Leafs ate any money, I don't like it.

b_illin
07-01-2015, 12:19 PM
I'm not happy to eat $1.2mm...but i can live with it. See ya Phil!!

boredguy
07-01-2015, 12:23 PM
So Kessel with 15% retained and a 2nd for Kapanen, Spaling, Harrington, 1st. That is bad for the Leafs.

wendel_
07-01-2015, 12:27 PM
Still getting ironed out. Looks like leafs get the other pick now? Tsn saying Kessel and two prospects for spaling kapanen Harrington and two picks. I can deal with eating 1.2 mill

b_illin
07-01-2015, 12:28 PM
That 2nd (especially if a 2016) was bad - that could be like 3-10 pick difference if both are 2016's

Hamsterkill
07-01-2015, 12:31 PM
Pens signed Semin, too, I'm hearing. Seems like they're setting up to be even more top-heavy than ever before. I'm okay with the Kessel deal (though it perpetuates the Penguins' utter lack of top talent in their prospect system). But man, I hope they can still manage to find at least a few decent depth players.

wendel_
07-01-2015, 12:33 PM
Semin signing was a fake account reporting it. But it would make sense for them to do that ha

phaneuf6
07-01-2015, 12:33 PM
Pens signed Semin, too, I'm hearing. Seems like they're setting up to be even more top-heavy than ever before. I'm okay with the Kessel deal (though it perpetuates the Penguins' utter lack of top talent in their prospect system). But man, I hope they can still manage to find at least a few decent depth players.

Heard that was fake?

Hamsterkill
07-01-2015, 12:34 PM
Heard that was fake?
Yeah, I see now. Somehow it got passed around by a few real accounts before being outed.

Hamsterkill
07-01-2015, 12:57 PM
So the full trade seems to be Kessel, Biggs, Erixon and a 2nd for Kapanen, Spaling, Harrington, a 1st and a 3rd with all picks in 2016?

WIS
07-01-2015, 01:01 PM
So the full trade seems to be Kessel, Biggs, Erixon and a 2nd for Kapanen, Spaling, Harrington, a 1st and a 3rd with all picks in 2016?

What a poor return. Just poor.

Dubz
07-01-2015, 01:21 PM
Had to be done. Glad i picked up Phil in my fantasy leagues last year :D

Harrington and Kapanen could work out. Both are instantly at the top of their position on the leafs prospect depth chart. Also a key to the trade is the 2nd pick is Pitts originally from the winnick deal.

Edit: So the Leafs have 2 1sts a 2nd and 2 3rds - Not bad

The 1st is conditional.

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=773319&navid=DL|PIT|home

boredguy
07-01-2015, 02:31 PM
I wouldn't say they're at the top, Kapanen is below Nylander and Harrington is about equal with Percy. This is a bad trade for the Leafs, they must have really wanted Kessel gone.

wendel_
07-01-2015, 02:45 PM
I like this deal. Coupla decent prospects and a first is good with me. The pens will make the playoffs so that second round pick will be the pens from the winnik deal. Clear up 6.8 mill on the cap as well since spaling just had one year left.

Im excited to see Kessel play with an elite C too. I'll be watching a lot of pens games ha.

wendel_
07-01-2015, 02:50 PM
Gonna be funny listening to Toronto radio tomorrow to hear all the people who were calling in saying we need to dump Kessel and phaneuf on whatever team will take the contracts now call in and say we didn't get enough.

Dubz
07-01-2015, 02:57 PM
I wouldn't say they're at the top, Kapanen is below Nylander and Harrington is about equal with Percy. This is a bad trade for the Leafs, they must have really wanted Kessel gone.

*At their positions* (decent prospects regardless) They had to make the move. I was reading into what Babs was saying (during the draft day interview) and theres no way that he would allow anyone in the room that was not "a good person" and made refrence to talking to the media which i felt was directly related to Phil. I had the feeling he was good as gone. The Leafs were handcuffed in the deal but felt having him NOT in the room was ultimately the right thing for the future of the franchise. No doubt Phil is worth more than a couple of non NHLers but if you look at what was given for Rick Nash its in the same ball park assuming one or two of these guys makes the bigs. Nash is also better than Kessel imo Funny note Erixon was involved as well. (6 teams and two goals later)

Columbus Blue Jackets traded Rick Nash, Steve Delisle and a conditional 3rd round selection to the New York Rangers for Brandon Dubinsky, Artem Anisimov, Tim Erixon and a 1st round selection in 2013.

two24four
07-01-2015, 03:31 PM
Dubas just said the Leafs don't make the deal if Kapanen isn't in it.

boredguy
07-01-2015, 03:53 PM
Harrington and Percy are both LHD and i still think Nylander ends up RW same position as Kapanen.

And i'm sure Dubas said that but the unsaid part is "Kapanen had to be in it cause they wouldn't give Pouliot"

If they weren't retaining and giving a 2nd the return would have been ok, with both those included it's not good.

Kyle
07-01-2015, 04:05 PM
Then he shouldn't have agreed to such a long contract!

Yeah, I did a bit more research, and you guys are 100% right, he actually could have retired any time but chose not to so as not to screw the Flyers. It was an awful situation - Pronger was probably the #1 D-man in the NHL at the time and had to get an awesome contract, but the 7 year term really was just ludicrous to offer at 35/36 (Whatever Pronger was at the time). It's like Brett Favre in Minnesota - Just because a guy has an amazing year at an old age doesn't change that he's one bad hit away from ending his career - you can't trust age.

I guess the frustration was more just the fact that he hates that people are still talking about it and that he still can't just retire without screwing somebody.

Although, at this point, if Arizona is tanking it anyway, couldn't Pronger just retire and leave them with the cap hit for a few years?

Kyle
07-01-2015, 04:07 PM
Harrington and Percy are both LHD and i still think Nylander ends up RW same position as Kapanen.

And i'm sure Dubas said that but the unsaid part is "Kapanen had to be in it cause they wouldn't give Pouliot"

If they weren't retaining and giving a 2nd the return would have been ok, with both those included it's not good.

Agreed. Thoughts on Green in Detroit for six mill all? I'm not happy, I'll leave it at that for now.

Dubz
07-01-2015, 04:19 PM
Agreed. Thoughts on Green in Detroit for six mill all? I'm not happy, I'll leave it at that for now.

I think they would be better off trading for Dion :p

Hamsterkill
07-01-2015, 09:13 PM
Yeah, I did a bit more research, and you guys are 100% right, he actually could have retired any time but chose not to so as not to screw the Flyers. It was an awful situation - Pronger was probably the #1 D-man in the NHL at the time and had to get an awesome contract, but the 7 year term really was just ludicrous to offer at 35/36 (Whatever Pronger was at the time). It's like Brett Favre in Minnesota - Just because a guy has an amazing year at an old age doesn't change that he's one bad hit away from ending his career - you can't trust age.

I guess the frustration was more just the fact that he hates that people are still talking about it and that he still can't just retire without screwing somebody.

Although, at this point, if Arizona is tanking it anyway, couldn't Pronger just retire and leave them with the cap hit for a few years?
I don't think cap hit goes away in the event of retirement... If it does I think that's exactly what could happen.

Doctego
07-01-2015, 09:30 PM
I think that the team is fucked if the player signs the contract at age 35+.

Kyle
07-01-2015, 10:06 PM
I don't think cap hit goes away in the event of retirement... If it does I think that's exactly what could happen.


That's my point. Even if the cap hit doesn't go away, doesn't Arizona want exactly that? Philly wanted to compete and Pronger allowed them to do so by saving them 4 mill or whatever it was. Arizona just wants the cap hit. So retire and let them have their 5 mill contribution towards the floor.

What is Prongers cap hit on LTIR anyway?

b_illin
07-01-2015, 10:33 PM
That Justin Williams signing by WAS is outstanding!

Kyle
07-01-2015, 11:11 PM
It's definitely a solid deal at a good price. A lot like Richards to the Wings - no lose situation with the potential to really improve both teams - except Richards is more of a season guy and Williams does better in the playoffs.

Thankfully the East is weak enough that the playoffs SHOULD be automatic for Washington - If that's the case, Williams will be huge. But he won't be doing much to help them get there, and he doesn't really justify top 6 minutes anymore.

I'm not as high on Williams as most - outside of his Conn Smythe run he's been entirely average or worse for over two years - but at that price and term you can't really go wrong as long as it doesn't cost you an important piece - which it didn't.

b_illin
07-01-2015, 11:15 PM
Other nice value signings: Weber (resigned), hunwick, jackman, parenteau, condra, stalberg, hodgson, arcobello, richards, carter, lindback, winnik (makes me so happy) and hackett (what is ANH doing with 4 goalies??)

phaneuf6
07-01-2015, 11:31 PM
Oduya turned down BIG money from the Sabres today.

Hamsterkill
07-02-2015, 12:52 AM
It's definitely a solid deal at a good price. A lot like Richards to the Wings - no lose situation with the potential to really improve both teams - except Richards is more of a season guy and Williams does better in the playoffs.

Thankfully the East is weak enough that the playoffs SHOULD be automatic for Washington - If that's the case, Williams will be huge. But he won't be doing much to help them get there, and he doesn't really justify top 6 minutes anymore.

I'm not as high on Williams as most - outside of his Conn Smythe run he's been entirely average or worse for over two years - but at that price and term you can't really go wrong as long as it doesn't cost you an important piece - which it didn't.

I dunno, the East was pretty competitive last year and I think it's going to be even moreso next year with no teams (well, maybe Carolina) tanking. I mean, I agree the Caps can certainly expect the playoffs (provided Ovechkin doesn't regress), but I don't know if I'd call it automatic.

Kyle
07-02-2015, 03:09 AM
I agree, I was trying to be generous to Washington regarding the trade - Overall the exchange from Green to Williams might help them in the playoffs but it certainly won't help them get there.

Doctego
07-02-2015, 05:28 AM
That's my point. Even if the cap hit doesn't go away, doesn't Arizona want exactly that? Philly wanted to compete and Pronger allowed them to do so by saving them 4 mill or whatever it was. Arizona just wants the cap hit. So retire and let them have their 5 mill contribution towards the floor.

What is Prongers cap hit on LTIR anyway?

It's somewhat complicated. Here's an older article about it and then an excerpt from another site:

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/7/3/5865615/flyers-salary-cap-pronger-ltir


Pronger's contract runs through the 2006-17 season. He was 35 years old before the contract began, so the Flyers are on the hook for the $4.9 million cost against the salary cap each season, though they have been able to receive relief by placing Pronger on long-term injured reserve at the start of each season.

Were Pronger to retire officially, the Flyers would lose that ability and his contract would count fully against the cap. Pronger also would not receive the rest of the salary owed to him from the contract, which was $12.15 million at the start of the 2013-14 season, according to Capgeek.com.

chgorman
07-02-2015, 07:09 AM
Justin Wiliams is the Robert Horry of the NHL.

This should probably be in the Wings thread, but whatevs...I'm still on the fence about DET getting Green. They still have a bunch of key guys they have to resign/extend and Green's salary may make it tough to resign 'em all. I think I may have preferred resigning Zidlicky for a yr at a lower salary, but I'm in no position to be questioning Ken Holland's moves.

Hopefully they can move/dump Kindl somehow, get his salary off the books to make some space for the other guys that need to be re-signed/extended.

I like the B.Richards signing. He'll be a huge improvement over Weiss at a similar salary I believe. Too bad about Weiss. I always liked him and was a big fan of him signing with DET when it happened, but he seems to have forgotten how to play hockey at the NHL level after having a number of solid yrs in FLA.

Kyle
07-02-2015, 05:33 PM
A quick bit of respect for Marty St Louis. A great career ends today. He is a certain hall of famer, not first ballot but he will certainly be there. One of the best offensive players of this entire generation of hockey.

Kyle
07-06-2015, 05:12 PM
Browsing any sports website is currently rather annoying with all those body issue photos floating around. ESPN is so superficial and pointless, as if the swim suit issue glorifying women who aren't athletes wasn't dumb enough, the body issue is just a disaster. Just a complete failure by the world of sports to overlap into the world of art and photography. It's honestly a bit disturbing seeing the muscle bound monsters naked in awkward poses with their knee barely covering their dick. The Seguin pictures in particular are just creepy, he's so scrawny and out of place.

What a depressing meeting it must've been in the ESPN idea room when they decided they were so close to shutting down that they had to cater to the porn market to sell more magazines.

(I know this is more general sports related, but we don't really use that forum and the NHL is included in the issue)

b_illin
07-10-2015, 11:18 PM
Nice trade for the Stars

Kyle
07-10-2015, 11:33 PM
Nice trade for the Stars

I think the Hawks did better. Dumped 2+m in salary and didn't get much worse for it. Sharp's been slipping, especially his goal scoring touch. In his last 110 games, Sharp has 26 goals. How good will he really be when the Stars are ready to compete? Unless you expect them to make a run this year. But their issue has been defense and they just lost their 2nd best blue liner, 23 min/night guy.

Daley easily had a better reg season than Sharp last year. Chicago got everything they could out of Sharp and maxed his return right when he had clearly begun taking major steps backwards and was no longer worth his salary. That's how you manage a dynasty - respect.

For Dallas, this just adds to their balance issues and makes it that much harder to afford a real goalie anytime before 2017. They picked up Chicago's most negative player (In terms of +/-) to add to their defensive woes.

two24four
07-11-2015, 07:58 AM
The key to this trade for Dallas is getting Johns. Big physical D who is a right shot who can also can play, that is hard to find. He also just turned 23. He's going to be tough to play against. Hawks might look back in a few years wishing they had kept him. Johns is the reason I think Dallas was ok with moving Daley.

Johns was also +30 in the AHL this season which was tied for first in just his 1st full season in the AHL.

Kyle
07-11-2015, 11:20 AM
The key to this trade for Dallas is getting Johns. Big physical D who is a right shot who can also can play, that is hard to find. He also just turned 23. He's going to be tough to play against. Hawks might look back in a few years wishing they had kept him. Johns is the reason I think Dallas was ok with moving Daley.

Johns was also +30 in the AHL this season which was tied for first in just his 1st full season in the AHL.

True. Good point. I just think Chicago still did great because they really do have to assume Toews/Kane will start wearing down early in their 30's. You can only play so many 100 game seasons in today's tighter league before health issues become a "when" instead of an "if." At this pace Toews/Kane will have nearly 200 playoff games played by 30. Huge mileage.

So I support anything the Hawks do to improve their chances of winning in the next few years while managing their crazy-difficult cap issues. That dude might be a star in 3-4 years, but who knows if Kane and/or Toews will start wearing down majorly by then. Daley gives them a needed supplement for the production they lose from Sharp and basically solves this year's cap issue without hurting them one bit next year.

I do feel better about Dallas' side of things though knowing they got a potential stud D-man out of this. Lord knows they need him and then some.

b_illin
07-11-2015, 12:01 PM
I think the Hawks did better. Dumped 2+m in salary and didn't get much worse for it. Sharp's been slipping, especially his goal scoring touch. In his last 110 games, Sharp has 26 goals. How good will he really be when the Stars are ready to compete? Unless you expect them to make a run this year. But their issue has been defense and they just lost their 2nd best blue liner, 23 min/night guy.

Daley easily had a better reg season than Sharp last year. Chicago got everything they could out of Sharp and maxed his return right when he had clearly begun taking major steps backwards and was no longer worth his salary. That's how you manage a dynasty - respect.

For Dallas, this just adds to their balance issues and makes it that much harder to afford a real goalie anytime before 2017. They picked up Chicago's most negative player (In terms of +/-) to add to their defensive woes.

It's the leadership experience he brings that I think is most valuable to the Stars. Also, that Johns kid sounds like he should he will be a decent replacement for Daley once in the not too distant future.

(I've heard some things though about Sharp that are unsavoury...whether they are true or not I do not know)

WIS
07-11-2015, 12:10 PM
It's the leadership experience he brings that I think is most valuable to the Stars. Also, that Johns kid sounds like he should he will be a decent replacement for Daley once in the not too distant future.

(I've heard some things though about Sharp that are unsavoury...whether they are true or not I do not know)
Ask phaneuf6, I'm sure he's got the scoop.

phaneuf6
07-11-2015, 05:52 PM
Haha, I don't have anyone in Chicago anymore. I doubt those rumours (if they're the same I heard) are true, though.

Kyle
07-13-2015, 10:26 AM
Wow how far Chris Stewart's star has fallen. Such a promising first 4-6 years including 18g/18a in the lockout season just three years ago. Now after two shit years signing a 1.7m "Last chance" 1 year deal with Anaheim in his first year of UFA eligibility (when he should be getting his first major payday).

Wonder what the Ducks will get out of him. His best two years featured hugely inflated shooting percentages (18.6 and 22.4) so I'd wager he's more of the disappointment he's been lately than the stud he looked like in those few seasons.

Rocklobster
07-13-2015, 11:49 AM
still an improvement over heatley lol

Hamsterkill
07-13-2015, 12:33 PM
Depends how he's used, really. He might still be good enough to put up numbers similar to those years, but he doesn't get that kind of ice time anymore -- and that trend will likely continue.

chgorman
07-13-2015, 07:03 PM
O'Reilly charged with impaired driving. Not a great start to his tenure in BUF (although he wasn't actually charged in BUF, but still...). Fleeing the scene? Weak.

http://www.am980.ca/2015/07/13/buffalo-sabres-centre-ryan-oreilly-charged-with-impaired-driving/

Dubz
07-13-2015, 08:14 PM
Wow what an idiot.

Kyle
07-13-2015, 10:20 PM
:lol: Well that's a class act by him. Didn't take long to confirm what I read a lot of Avs fans say about him after the trade: That he's a huge asshole. And all of Sabres nation is ecstatic he'll probably be the captain for 7 years. Have fun!

IMO the Sabres basically shot their rebuild right in the foot and risked ruining it all with this O'Reily deal. He doesn't have the talent or the character to back up the investment they made in him. Unless Eichel truly drags him to greatness, the Sabres will be wishing they were more patient and didn't jump the gun on the first young potential-star to come their way. Sabres would've been just fine blowing dick another season and drafting high again, and waiting for a better free agent to come along in the next 2 years or so. O'Reily just isn't the base of a franchise that they're paying him to be.

Dubz
07-13-2015, 10:34 PM
:lol: Well that's a class act by him. Didn't take long to confirm what I read a lot of Avs fans say about him after the trade: That he's a huge asshole. And all of Sabres nation is ecstatic he'll probably be the captain for 7 years. Have fun!

IMO the Sabres basically shot their rebuild right in the foot and risked ruining it all with this O'Reily deal. He doesn't have the talent or the character to back up the investment they made in him. Unless Eichel truly drags him to greatness, the Sabres will be wishing they were more patient and didn't jump the gun on the first young potential-star to come their way. Sabres would've been just fine blowing dick another season and drafting high again, and waiting for a better free agent to come along in the next 2 years or so. O'Reily just isn't the base of a franchise that they're paying him to be.

Kyle has ammo :mtr:

phaneuf6
07-13-2015, 10:58 PM
I'll vouch for Ryan. Everyone makes mistakes. He's young. Still a character guy.

Kyle
07-13-2015, 11:02 PM
Kyle has ammo https://forums.hockeyinformer.com/images/smilies/sniper.gif


:lol: Just saying, when the biggest defense of a guy is his supposed intangibles and leadership qualities and he responds to his fancy 50 mill contract with an immediate DUI and fleeing the scene, it just really feels like the Sabres were delusional. Just another example of the poor management that has become characteristic of most hockey franchises (Just look at one of the supposed best Boston flail through the offseason wildly). It's amazing how often bad decisions get made in hockey and the defense is almost always "Well, someone would've paid him." At some point, GM's just need to let each other bury themselves and stop competing to make the worst decision possible, a game Buffalo clearly won in the case of O'Reily.

I was def ready to drop the subject for a year or two and then revisit how the trade worked out for Buffalo, but the arrest just compelled me to repeat my objections to the deal, especially when the argument was he's a "character, leadership guy" and supposed to take over as captain.

Kyle
07-13-2015, 11:19 PM
Everyone makes mistakes. He's young. Still a character guy.

I know you have an inside scoop to what these guys do in their offtime and I'm sure most of it is way worse than drinking and driving, but at the end of the day most of those guys aren't considered successful leaders being asked (And paid) to be a character example for their entire team. How does this not call into question O'Reily's ability to lead the strongest prospect pool in the NHL over the next 7 years? It's a crappy start man.

Plus, 24 isn't that young. You get the DUI's out of your system from 18-21 typically. Beyond that it indicates some sort of problem. Getting arrested for driving drunk and crashing into a building before feeing the scene in your mid-20's isn't healthy or "just another night out" it's a problem. Certainly not something to write off. That usually leads to repeating the same mistake. And definitely a problem not expected from a guy being paid a cool million extra (or more) for his intangibles and leadership qualities and the subsequent positive affect that's supposed to have on the prospects in Buffalo.

Maybe O'Reily will change for the better in response to this, but lets not let him off the hook and act like he's some good kid that made a small mistake. It takes a flaw in someone's mentality to let this happen. Would Buffalo have offered the deal at all if he had gotten arrested a week prior? It's an interesting thought. Even if they would have, I highly doubt the salary would've been 7.5m.

Doctego
07-14-2015, 06:47 AM
How does this not call into question O'Reily's ability to lead the strongest prospect pool in the NHL over the next 7 years? It's a crappy start man.

I'm with you. If you're a character guy, you don't get to pick and choose the moments in your life where you get to show that character.

chgorman
07-14-2015, 09:10 AM
Looks like he could face up to 6 mths in jail. He'll likely plea down to a lower charge though. Doubtful that he does any actual jail time.

Dubz
07-14-2015, 09:29 AM
There are automatic minimal penalties for DUI...pretty sure he will be fined. As for fleeing i really dont know....id guess a fine as well. The most idiotic thing he did was drive a truck that could be seen from the space station. Guess he really likes his timbits

chgorman
07-14-2015, 10:19 AM
There are automatic minimal penalties for DUI...pretty sure he will be fined. As for fleeing i really dont know....id guess a fine as well. The most idiotic thing he did was drive a truck that could be seen from the space station. Guess he really likes his timbits

... after posting pics of it on instagram for all the world to see

phaneuf6
07-14-2015, 11:21 AM
The stupidest thing he did was get caught after leaving the truck. If he could have made it home, there would be no DUI.

He won't serve any jail time anyways... and while it was a stupid move, I'll still vouch for him, Kyle :lol:

Rocklobster
07-14-2015, 12:19 PM
I'm not sure if you're serious but the stupidest thing he did was drive a vehicle while drunk.

"if only he could have made it home" yeah everything would've just been dandy! lol

Rocklobster
07-14-2015, 12:21 PM
I hope he gets punished and serves time. He knew exactly what he was doing and then acted like a punk bitch. He broke multiple laws... fuck that guy.

Hamsterkill
07-14-2015, 01:15 PM
There clearly was a lot of stupid involved in the incident. Definitely a troubling situation.

From everything I've heard of the guy's character first hand, (which, admittedly, is all from before he was drafted) this doesn't sound like him. I'll be interested to see how he deals with this.

phaneuf6
07-14-2015, 03:01 PM
I'm not sure if you're serious but the stupidest thing he did was drive a vehicle while drunk.

"if only he could have made it home" yeah everything would've just been dandy! lol

Well then there's no proof he was drunk and it's simply leaving the scene of an accident... but getting caught and blowing over the limit means now he's on the hook for all of it.

Hamsterkill
07-14-2015, 03:07 PM
Well then there's no proof he was drunk and it's simply leaving the scene of an accident... but getting caught and blowing over the limit means now he's on the hook for all of it.
I don't think Rocklobster was speaking in terms of just avoiding consequences.

phaneuf6
07-14-2015, 03:15 PM
I don't think Rocklobster was speaking in terms of just avoiding consequences.

Haha, I know. I thought his point was a given... obviously go back and do it again and you just don't get behind the wheel. What an offseason for Newport... Stoll, Richards and now O'Reilly.

b_illin
07-14-2015, 03:22 PM
I'm not at all condoning driving drunk, but you don't have to be drunk to blow over...mildly tipsy will blow over 0.08 and not even tipsy over 0.05

Hamsterkill
07-14-2015, 03:52 PM
I'm not at all condoning driving drunk, but you don't have to be drunk to blow over...mildly tipsy will blow over 0.08 and not even tipsy over 0.05
Isn't that why our legal limits are where they are?

b_illin
07-14-2015, 04:02 PM
I don't know about you but mildly tipsy is nowhere near drunk for me. (mildly tipsy = your arms feel a little buzzy perhaps but your head isn't affected)

Everyone is different though. I once blew 0.05 back when 0.08 was the warning territory and I was not even mildly tipsy.

Hamsterkill
07-14-2015, 04:04 PM
I don't know about you but mildly tipsy is nowhere near drunk for me. (mildly tipsy = your arms feel a little buzzy perhaps but your head isn't affected)
It's drunk enough to not be operating heavy machinery, certainly.

Doctego
07-14-2015, 04:10 PM
It's drunk enough to not be operating heavy machinery, certainly.

Agreed. I'd like to see b_illin use his description in court.

b_illin
07-14-2015, 04:40 PM
I rarely drink so not an issue. My point was that we don't know what he blew so lambasting him for driving hammered is a bit much at this point....and 0.05-0.08 is not drunk for 99% of the population.

Dubz
07-14-2015, 08:41 PM
Haha, I know. I thought his point was a given... obviously go back and do it again and you just don't get behind the wheel. What an offseason for Newport... Stoll, Richards and now O'Reilly.

Most young men are going to try and get away if nobody is else is involved/hurt. I understand that part. Taking the truck is what baffles me. To me its screams of immaturity so i cant side with any excuse/reasoning.

It was 4am....Sometimes young people think they slept it off? Idk but thats his best line to use in court i suppose. Of course i dont even know if he was actually driving atp...just that he was charged with it.

phaneuf6
07-14-2015, 08:58 PM
Most young men are going to try and get away if nobody is else is involved/hurt. I understand that part. Taking the truck is what baffles me. To me its screams of immaturity so i cant side with any excuse/reasoning.

It was 4am....Sometimes young people think they slept it off? Idk but thats his best line to use in court i suppose. Of course i dont even know if he was actually driving atp...just that he was charged with it.

I can confirm that there is more to the story than what is reported. Can't say much else.

chgorman
07-14-2015, 10:58 PM
I can confirm that there is more to the story than what is reported. Can't say much else.

Now I'm really intrigued...

phaneuf6
07-15-2015, 08:26 AM
Now I'm really intrigued...

Haha, unfortunately it wouldn't be right of me to say anything else. Dubz was close, though.

Doctego
07-15-2015, 09:57 AM
There could be more to the story but it appears that he was drunk, hit something, and left the scene. If that's all true, I don't know or care what the other factors are.

two24four
07-15-2015, 10:06 AM
Dallas just signed Oduya.

So you could say that trade is now Daley and Garbutt for Sharp, Johns and Oduya.

phaneuf6
07-15-2015, 10:08 AM
Oduya turned down somewhere in the neighbourhood of $15mm over 3 years from Buffalo.

two24four
07-15-2015, 10:11 AM
Oduya turned down somewhere in the neighbourhood of $15mm over 3 years from Buffalo.

Better chance to win again now in Dallas. He's 33, doubt he wants to be in a rebuild.

Hamsterkill
07-15-2015, 10:17 AM
I'm honestly fine with Buffalo missing out on him. I understand there's probably not any better options out there right now, but I think patience for one would serve better than Oduya for the Sabres.

two24four
07-15-2015, 10:27 AM
I'm honestly fine with Buffalo missing out on him. I understand there's probably not any better options out there right now, but I think patience for one would serve better than Oduya for the Sabres.

Cody Franson is still unsigned.

Hamsterkill
07-15-2015, 11:19 AM
Cody Franson is still unsigned.
Perhaps, but I think Buffalo's looking more for a defense-first guy.

Kyle
07-15-2015, 10:46 PM
7 mill for Ryan Kesler?? It's time for another episode of "Why the fuck are NHL teams so stupid?" 6 years at 30 years old when he's been regressing for years now? 150 pts in his last 250 and only 70 goals during that 3+ seasons worth of time. That's under 50 pts and 24 goals per season from a pure offensive specialist.

I know he had a legit playoff run, but holy shit what an overreaction to 16 games. Outside of that he's been all of a 5 million dollar player for Anaheim, and I'm being very generous in calling him that. Extremely generous. Why Anaheim would even want him for 6 years, I'll never know, but this contract is almost guaranteed to look toxic before those years are done.

Desperate move by a Ducks team that has bordered on the Shark's level of yearly disappointment since their cup 9 years ago. I'd understand overpaying for 3 years if they didn't think they'd need the money for anything more important, but 6 years is crazy when he's 30 and has been regressing since 27.

Sure makes me feel like the Wings got a mega steal from Nyquist, at least. I would take a one legged Nyquist using a dildo as a hockey stick on my team before Kesler.

WIS
07-15-2015, 10:56 PM
7 mill for Ryan Kesler?? It's time for another episode of "Why the fuck are NHL teams so stupid?" 6 years at 30 years old when he's been regressing for years now? 150 pts in his last 250 and only 70 goals during that 3+ seasons worth of time. That's under 50 pts and 24 goals per season from a pure offensive specialist.

I know he had a legit playoff run, but holy shit what an overreaction to 16 games. Outside of that he's been all of a 5 million dollar player for Anaheim, and I'm being very generous in calling him that. Extremely generous. Why Anaheim would even want him for 6 years, I'll never know, but this contract is almost guaranteed to look toxic before those years are done.

Desperate move by a Ducks team that has bordered on the Shark's level of yearly disappointment since their cup 9 years ago. I'd understand overpaying for 3 years if they didn't think they'd need the money for anything more important, but 6 years is crazy when he's 30 and has been regressing since 27.

Sure makes me feel like the Wings got a mega steal from Nyquist, at least. I would take a one legged Nyquist using a dildo as a hockey stick on my team before Kesler.
:lol:

I do agree with you. What an overpayment. What have the Sabres and O'Reilly set :nono:

Hamsterkill
07-15-2015, 11:51 PM
The term is the bigger problem there. His regression coincided with an injury and he's currently still a very strong 2nd C play. Signing a 30 year old that plays his style and has his injury history to a long contract is very risky, though.

Kyle
07-16-2015, 12:24 AM
Whatever the reason, it's a regression that has lasted four years so it's safe to say 20-25 goals and 45-50 pts is the new max you expect out of Ryan Kesler, with common sense suggesting it should only get worse into his 30's.

I'm with you on the term, at 2-3 years overpaying Kesler doesn't cripple a team because it's very easy to project your cap breakdown for a few years. But six years is impossible to project and its nearly guaranteed that at some point in those six years, they will miss out on the chance to sign someone better than Kesler at a cap hit lower than Kesler's.

Also, very strong 2nd C play is pretty crazy flattering. Tons of teams have a 20 goal center on their 2nd line. How is Kesler better than any of them? Doesn't play two ways, is a bit frail, scores a barely-good 20-24 goals a year, doesn't set up plays well, forechecks hard but awful on the backcheck. He's a middle of the pack 2nd line center.There are a lot of really good 2nd line centers, and some amazing ones that are better than many 1st line centers, and Kesler doesn't belong in the same breath as a lot of them. Overall, it's a struggle to rank Kesler in the top 40 NHL centers, but easy to rank him in the top 50, so that situates him neatly as a solid 2nd line center.

Unless we're just using 16 playoff games this year to forget about his last 260 season+playoff games played at a mediocre quality, I can't call him more than a solid NHL 2nd line player worth 4-5mill.

Hamsterkill
07-16-2015, 01:24 AM
Whatever the reason, it's a regression that has lasted four years so it's safe to say 20-25 goals and 45-50 pts is the new max you expect out of Ryan Kesler, with common sense suggesting it should only get worse into his 30's.

I'm with you on the term, at 2-3 years overpaying Kesler doesn't cripple a team because it's very easy to project your cap breakdown for a few years. But six years is impossible to project and its nearly guaranteed that at some point in those six years, they will miss out on the chance to sign someone better than Kesler at a cap hit lower than Kesler's.

Also, very strong 2nd C play is pretty crazy flattering. Tons of teams have a 20 goal center on their 2nd line. How is Kesler better than any of them? Doesn't play two ways, is a bit frail, scores a barely-good 20-24 goals a year, doesn't set up plays well, forechecks hard but awful on the backcheck. He's a middle of the pack 2nd line center.There are a lot of really good 2nd line centers, and some amazing ones that are better than many 1st line centers, and Kesler doesn't belong in the same breath as a lot of them. Overall, it's a struggle to rank Kesler in the top 40 NHL centers, but easy to rank him in the top 50, so that situates him neatly as a solid 2nd line center.

Unless we're just using 16 playoff games this year to forget about his last 260 season+playoff games played at a mediocre quality, I can't call him more than a solid NHL 2nd line player worth 4-5mill.

?? He's a former Selke winner and plays a shutdown role for the Ducks.

Kyle
07-16-2015, 01:42 AM
How long ago was that? What's the voting looked like since? In his last three years, he's gotten no votes, no votes, 67 votes (Which is basically just "We didn't know who to vote for but recognized his name"). He isn't even a defensive forward anymore. That's not in his skill set today.. The fact that a recent winner receives basically no votes today shows he simply doesn't perform well defensively anymore, because the Selke always leans on recent winners due to the scarcity of elite two-way forwards. It says A LOT that Kesler doesn't even get those default votes you'd expect from a recent winner.

A shut down role for the Ducks? He was a negative player on a positive team. Just because Getzlaf/Perry suck on defense doesn't make Kesler a shut down guy. He's just the guy they trust more than those two against guys like Toews. That only makes him the best defensive forward on the Ducks, a team with shit two-way players. But that doesn't actually make him a shut down guy unless he performs that job well. He does not. Toews absolutely embarrassed him and made him his bitch during the playoff series this year. Kesler didn't have a bad series, but Toews had a brilliant series. So Kesler is no shut down guy. Not every team has a true shut down forward that's still a threat to score. Kesler/The Ducks are not one.

Kesler was a very different player when he won his selke. He has looked slow and dull for the last three years and has certainly not been an effective two way player in that stretch. Being a two way player requires a motor and legs that Kesler simply doesn't have anymore. The connotation attached to "a two way player" simply does not accurately describe Kesler today, I consider that a very misleading and inaccurate description. Like calling Ryan Miller a vezina caliber goalie still. Shit changes. Kesler is very good proof of that.

Kyle
07-16-2015, 01:57 AM
Since you're better at looking this stuff up than me, how does he rank on the advanced stats metrics, specifically vs top competition,? I find that to be the most important metric for a top shut down player. I have absolutely no idea how the numbers will look, you may very well end up finding something that proves I'm wrong and Kesler is still great defensively. I'm just curious.

Hamsterkill
07-16-2015, 10:38 AM
It's rather difficult to analyze defensive forwards with advanced stats. About the only thing you can count on is Bergeron to come out on top with Toews not far behind. Kesler rates among the top players for his quality of competition. which shows how he is used. His possession statistics are more middle of the pack. He's basically an older Sean Couturier, statistically. At least as far as last season goes.

By the way, I wasn't arguing that he's a top defensive forward now. I was arguing that to not even call him two-way is unfair.

Kyle
07-16-2015, 01:03 PM
I'll admit that, and even admit I had totally forgotten he had won a Selke when I typed that. But that's also an indication of how poorly he's played since, at least compared to the three years surrounding his selke win. I just remember his last season in Vancouver specifically and that dude was anything but a selke player. And then this year he got pretty embarrassed against Toews. I agree with you that it was unfair to say not a two-way player at all, but he's certainly no longer a good one.

He tries, but his legs just don't seem to have the life left in them. Which is why I was careful to call him slow and dull earlier and not lazy because he is anything but a lazy guy. The physical ability just isn't there anymore. Probably the injury you alluded to (It was a knee, right?) but it is what it is - he just can't hustle anymore and it's really hard to be a solid two-way guy when you can't skate up and down the ice quickly, especially in today's transition game.

phaneuf6
07-16-2015, 02:13 PM
I'll admit that, and even admit I had totally forgotten he had won a Selke when I typed that. But that's also an indication of how poorly he's played since, at least compared to the three years surrounding his selke win. I just remember his last season in Vancouver specifically and that dude was anything but a selke player. And then this year he got pretty embarrassed against Toews. I agree with you that it was unfair to say not a two-way player at all, but he's certainly no longer a good one.

He tries, but his legs just don't seem to have the life left in them. Which is why I was careful to call him slow and dull earlier and not lazy because he is anything but a lazy guy. The physical ability just isn't there anymore. Probably the injury you alluded to (It was a knee, right?) but it is what it is - he just can't hustle anymore and it's really hard to be a solid two-way guy when you can't skate up and down the ice quickly, especially in today's transition game.

Knee and shoulder.

The term sucks but the Ducks are in a win-now window and it won't matter if they win a Cup in the next 2-3 seasons.

b_illin
07-16-2015, 03:56 PM
Whatever the reason, it's a regression that has lasted four years so it's safe to say 20-25 goals and 45-50 pts is the new max you expect out of Ryan Kesler, with common sense suggesting it should only get worse into his 30's.

I'm with you on the term, at 2-3 years overpaying Kesler doesn't cripple a team because it's very easy to project your cap breakdown for a few years. But six years is impossible to project and its nearly guaranteed that at some point in those six years, they will miss out on the chance to sign someone better than Kesler at a cap hit lower than Kesler's.

Also, very strong 2nd C play is pretty crazy flattering. Tons of teams have a 20 goal center on their 2nd line. How is Kesler better than any of them? Doesn't play two ways, is a bit frail, scores a barely-good 20-24 goals a year, doesn't set up plays well, forechecks hard but awful on the backcheck. He's a middle of the pack 2nd line center.There are a lot of really good 2nd line centers, and some amazing ones that are better than many 1st line centers, and Kesler doesn't belong in the same breath as a lot of them. Overall, it's a struggle to rank Kesler in the top 40 NHL centers, but easy to rank him in the top 50, so that situates him neatly as a solid 2nd line center.

Unless we're just using 16 playoff games this year to forget about his last 260 season+playoff games played at a mediocre quality, I can't call him more than a solid NHL 2nd line player worth 4-5mill.

He's a strong 2C - brings a lot of intangibles. Whether those intangibles will be as significant in 3+ yrs is the debate.

Kyle
07-16-2015, 11:21 PM
He's a strong 2C - brings a lot of intangibles. Whether those intangibles will be as significant in 3+ yrs is the debate.

To me, that's not the debate because that's not something people are disagreeing on. We all agree the term sucks and is way too long. The debate is, do you think whatever Ryan Kesler offers over the next few years is worth this long-term commitment beyond his useful years? As in, does he really help a team's chances of winning a cup so much that he's worth overpaying and keeping well beyond his useful years for the sake of boosting their cup chances this year?

To me, the answer is no, Kesler does not offer Anaheim enough to justify the long-term issues they'll deal with surrounding this contract. There will be far more worthy free agents of receiving this type of contract and Anaheim won't be able to move on any of them over the next few years. To others here, the answer is yes, Kesler is one of Anaheim's keys to a deep playoff run and whatever it takes to win within their small window is worth it.

I'm curious where you stand on that. Do you think Anaheim needed Kesler badly enough to justify the overpayment and exuberant term? As in, would you have done the same in their shoes if the only other option was to let him walk?

Kyle
07-22-2015, 06:53 AM
Continuity: When Bob Murray is explaining that Ryan Keslerís new $42 million contract makes sense because he is one of the most effective centers in the league, Murray should be much more woozy from the time travel that has apparently just brought him back from 2010.

:lol: From a spoof review of last year's season.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nhls-imdb-goofs-page/

Doctego
07-24-2015, 03:10 PM
Holtby re-signs for 5/$30.5M. Semin to Habs for 1/$1.1M. Interested to see if this wakes him up.

Kyle
07-24-2015, 03:51 PM
Holtby re-signs for 5/$30.5M. Semin to Habs for 1/$1.1M. Interested to see if this wakes him up.

Both of those are great deals for both teams. Holtby getting paid just north of Jimmy Howard is a major steal. Guy is clearly a top 3 goalie already, and although things change quick in the goalie world, Holtby is young enough to be confident in at least a few years of consistent greatness.

Semin is a no-risk at that price with potential major rewards. Who knows if he'll decide to score 30 goals this year.

Dubz
07-24-2015, 07:47 PM
Holtby was asking for more money. So it must be a good deal lol. Lets hope he keeps up the good play.

Semin is a tough one. Kinda like Hodgson i suppose. Guess we will see where they fit in. Both players were on the books for alot more than 1 mil last year.

Kyle
07-26-2015, 12:15 AM
Holtby was asking for more money. So it must be a good deal lol. Lets hope he keeps up the good play.

Semin is a tough one. Kinda like Hodgson i suppose. Guess we will see where they fit in. Both players were on the books for alot more than 1 mil last year.

1 mill is basically nothing. If he's dogshit, stash him away and bite the cheap bullet. It's an amazing move for the Habs because of that.

At the end of the day, outside one bad year with a new coach, Semin had 86 points in 109 games the two years before in Carolina. The four years before last year, he averaged about a 28 goal pace (With injuries considered). Any GM should've been happy to pay 1 mill for even the slight chance of that production, and I think it's better than a slight chance that Semin scores 20+ goals for Montreal.

Dubz
07-26-2015, 09:31 AM
Honestly? where do you think he fits in the line up? Im pretty sure he is a liability. The only way i see 20 goals is if he plays the PP.

Kyle
07-26-2015, 04:29 PM
Honestly? where do you think he fits in the line up? Im pretty sure he is a liability. The only way i see 20 goals is if he plays the PP.

I can't write off a career star for one bad year and call him a liability. He was a liability last year, a major one, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt until it happens again. For now I think the safe bet is that the change of scenery inspires some sort of increased production - The extent of which is very debatable. I think we can all agree he won't put up last year's numbers again. That was like, Selanne on Colorado bad. Just a really random crap year.