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Dubz
04-12-2012, 01:28 AM
Yesh anybody can win this on. Im going with Kane after the Dats shootout move.

alias
04-12-2012, 11:32 PM
another game goes to OT? ugh....I'm going to bed....

Dubz
04-13-2012, 12:23 AM
HEY REFS.... When the other team has more than five guys playing hockey at the same time its actually a penalty. Watched alot of this game. Mike Smith and the yotes looked really good and deserved this win despite the bad call imo

alias
04-13-2012, 10:13 PM
didnt realize how good Mike Smith is handling the puck....better than Marty....

Doctego
04-15-2012, 09:43 AM
I am really finding myself pulling for Phoenix here but they have to do a better job clearing the puck late in these games. 2 games with 2 late goals against to tie. Game 2 could very well kill them.

Kyle
04-15-2012, 01:40 PM
Reminds me of that shorthanded goal with 8 seconds left to extend Chicagos playoff season that one year (I think it was the year they lost to Det before they won). Totally undeserved, but fun to watch.

canuckthug
04-16-2012, 04:49 PM
I am really finding myself pulling for Phoenix here but they have to do a better job clearing the puck late in these games. 2 games with 2 late goals against to tie. Game 2 could very well kill them.

Yup, those late goals are killers. Its gonna be interesting to see how Phoenix responds here on out.

Kyle
04-17-2012, 12:35 PM
Shaw is trash. Might've stolen a series for the Hawks by headhunting Smith. Smith was playing brickwall goaltending.

dw13
04-17-2012, 08:31 PM
Finger crossed for Hossa. Torres deserves to be punished for that one, no doubt.

This game is going to get real nasty. Real quickly.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
04-17-2012, 09:28 PM
wow. what is with all the nastiness in the playoffs this year? Seems to be out of control more so than ever... or is it just me being guilty of a short term memory ?

Kyle
04-17-2012, 09:32 PM
Torres left his feet big time. The launching motion probably provided the extra force it took to injure Hossa. Bullshit hit.

two24four
04-17-2012, 09:37 PM
Torres is a douche. I hope he gets 20 games.

Hamsterkill
04-18-2012, 11:13 AM
Torres probably gets suspended for about a round for that one.

two24four
04-18-2012, 11:20 AM
Kypreos just said on the radio that he better at least get the rest of the playoffs, no matter how far they go. I agree with that.

Hamsterkill
04-18-2012, 01:28 PM
Kypreos just said on the radio that he better at least get the rest of the playoffs, no matter how far they go. I agree with that.

The hit was dirty, caused an injury, and he is a repeat offender -- so he'll get a nice suspension. Even so, suspending for potentially between 12 and 21 playoff games for that hit seems excessive.

b_illin
04-18-2012, 02:37 PM
I don't like that hit, but I find it ironic that 5-10yrs ago that would be considered a great hit and then in April 2012 everyone is acting like it is the worst thing ever.

(and this is where I get lit up and called names)


wow. what is with all the nastiness in the playoffs this year? Seems to be out of control more so than ever... or is it just me being guilty of a short term memory ?

Honestly, I think it's short-term memory. Everything/one is so fucking politically correct these days that we are all 'so shocked' at the level of violence in hockey these days. Yes, there have been some dirty (dirty) plays, but ppl, this is nothing new in the NHL! The difference in 2012 is that instead of shaking it off like they used to do, the players now go through a lot of scrutiny to prove they are ok to play again. That's a good thing for sure (keeping them out until they are cleared to play), but it also has led to the media making such a huge deal out of all of this, that we are all now making a big deal too. Personally, I am getting irritated by it all. The Weber incident was stupid. The Torres incident too as he shouldn't have left his feet (but I don't think he went for Hossa's head). The PIT/PHI antics? Not at all. That's fucking hockey. What's a fucking joke imo is that in the past, players would fight, not cross check each other in the face. Is this (the cheapie retaliation stuff) due to the rules (instigator) or the players lacking respect for each other? I don't know, but I don't like how this is what everyone is talking about when there has been some great hockey going on as well.

two24four
04-19-2012, 10:09 AM
Sounds like Brandon Saad will play tonight for CHI after his Jr season just came to an end.

alias
04-21-2012, 11:20 AM
torres suspended for 25 games....seems a little excessive comapred to some other things we've seen. I think 10-15 games would have been fair.

two24four
04-21-2012, 11:22 AM
Torres is a douche. I hope he gets 20 games.

I was close. I say good,maybe he will learn.

Hamsterkill
04-21-2012, 12:19 PM
torres suspended for 25 games....seems a little excessive comapred to some other things we've seen. I think 10-15 games would have been fair.

Wow. Yeah, I'd say that's excessive for the hit that he threw.

b_illin
04-21-2012, 12:26 PM
25 games is about 15 too many (at the least)

canuckthug
04-21-2012, 02:22 PM
25 games!! Should have been 15 max and that includes his history. Shanny can't win, but its his fault for having zero consistency.

habsfan1
04-21-2012, 07:17 PM
Just finished watching Coach's Corner and they showed Torre's history. This is the exact thing that needs to be taken out of the game. I'm all for hard hitting clean hockey but I'm sick of seeing all the stars injured with concussions. Torres is a head hunter and got what he deserved. They needed to send him a message and hopefully he gets it.

pjm
04-21-2012, 11:48 PM
These two teams refuse to play 60 minutes of hockey

bearcats
04-22-2012, 12:31 AM
Shaw is trash. Might've stolen a series for the Hawks by headhunting Smith. Smith was playing brickwall goaltending.

Torres for Hossa(point leader)? No comments of that exchange?

Kyle
04-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Torres left his feet big time. The launching motion probably provided the extra force it took to injure Hossa. Bullshit hit.

Look, quoting my post before the Torres hit even existed and pointing out my lack of criticism is fair. I just think its a little more fair to quote my criticism of the hit after it actually occurred. Just saying. ;)

If we really need to compare which career-threatening hit was more critical to their teams, Hossa is a career PPG player who regularly under-performs come playoff time (1 of 12 seasons over a PPG, only 1 other season was close). Your point leader had 0 points at the time of his exit in game 3. Without Hossa the Hawks are still among the most potent offenses in the league. Mike Smith had a phenomenal career year, carried a struggling Coyotes offense into a fantastic position in the league standings. His backup went 3-9 as opposed to his 38-18. Without him, the Coyotes are doomed to the ultimate failure and obscurity. The star goalie that carries a team means more than 1 leading forward (Who we know is not the best forward on that team, perhaps 4th place even). But this is dumb, because they're both garbage hits we need to never see again.

Kyle
04-24-2012, 12:24 AM
I don't like that hit, but I find it ironic that 5-10yrs ago that would be considered a great hit and then in April 2012 everyone is acting like it is the worst thing ever.

(and this is where I get lit up and called names)



Honestly, I think it's short-term memory. Everything/one is so fucking politically correct these days that we are all 'so shocked' at the level of violence in hockey these days. Yes, there have been some dirty (dirty) plays, but ppl, this is nothing new in the NHL! The difference in 2012 is that instead of shaking it off like they used to do, the players now go through a lot of scrutiny to prove they are ok to play again. That's a good thing for sure (keeping them out until they are cleared to play), but it also has led to the media making such a huge deal out of all of this, that we are all now making a big deal too. Personally, I am getting irritated by it all. The Weber incident was stupid. The Torres incident too as he shouldn't have left his feet (but I don't think he went for Hossa's head). The PIT/PHI antics? Not at all. That's fucking hockey. What's a fucking joke imo is that in the past, players would fight, not cross check each other in the face. Is this (the cheapie retaliation stuff) due to the rules (instigator) or the players lacking respect for each other? I don't know, but I don't like how this is what everyone is talking about when there has been some great hockey going on as well.

Man man man man. Manly man man man. Man man man man. Thats all I can think when I read this.

The Philly/Flyers game was hockey? How can you say that in the same paragraph that you acknowledged how dirty the crosscheck was? Nonsense. That game was garbage. Punches behind the heads, players headhunting smaller targets and avoiding fair fights, classless childish pre-fight foreplay ("teehee, your gloves over there now!" - Sidney Crosby) instead of just directly initiating a fight like old school hockey worked, and thats besides the damn crosscheck and ridiculous two head shots by Neal. You can't acknowledge how ridiculous and bullshit it is that players have resorted to outrageous head hunting and crosschecking (Neal, asham) in place of real fights and refer to the game where those took place as "Fucking hockey." Thats a goon mentality besides the obvious glaring contradiction. Don't you get that it would've been an amazing game if it were, like old school games, filled with legit fights and legal big hits instead of the pussywhipped scraps that took place in between dirty, cheap bullshit. Those things happened and those things made it a crappy game for hockey.

We've all watched a lot of hockey a really long time. We remember perfectly well what this league has been and that game doesn't qualify for the category you're putting it in. It was so very childish, pussywhipped, and dirty.

Also, "Its just short term memory." Not at all. This has been one of the most disgusting opening rounds in playoff history. You're off if you think its normal for suspensions to occur at this rate. If you don't think more people are getting injured through horrible dirty boarding hits and head shots, you're insane. If you think its all a result of players leaving the game earlier than they used to, I again have to say no way at all. Player safety is more of an issue than it was previously, but whatever efforts the league makes to push safety is offset by the sheer speed of today's game and the sheer athleticism of the skaters compared to 30-40 years ago. The league is more dangerous, injuries are more common (Not just more commonly reported, more commonly occurring) and the increasing decline in player respect has been catastrophic paired with these.

alias
04-24-2012, 08:25 AM
Also, "Its just short term memory." Not at all. This has been one of the most disgusting opening rounds in playoff history. You're off if you think its normal for suspensions to occur at this rate.

Not that I disagree with you, but I will say that a huge reason that there are more suspensions is that there are more suspendable offences today than there were even 10 years ago. There are a ton of hits that Scott Stevens laid out would have been suspended for if he played today. The other reason, as you mentioned, is the sheer speed & athleticism of todays players. They're bigger and stronger than ever and that will result in more injuries, especially when someone has their head down, or is admiring a pass.

two24four
04-24-2012, 09:19 AM
With the way Luongo and Fluery have looked, Smith gets my early vote for starting at the next Olympics for Canada. Sean Burke has done some great work with him.

alias
04-24-2012, 10:42 AM
With the way Luongo and Fluery have looked, Smith gets my early vote for starting at the next Olympics for Canada. Sean Burke has done some great work with him.

I've got to see more than one great season before backing him for Olympic starter. At this point I think you can only discuss who candidates could be. A couple years ago we were saying how Steve Mason would be an Olympian. :scared:

WIS
04-24-2012, 10:47 AM
With the way Luongo and Fluery have looked, Smith gets my early vote for starting at the next Olympics for Canada. Sean Burke has done some great work with him.

He reminds me a lot of the way Burke played. He has done a nice job.

phaneuf6
04-24-2012, 10:49 AM
Not that I disagree with you, but I will say that a huge reason that there are more suspensions is that there are more suspendable offences today than there were even 10 years ago. There are a ton of hits that Scott Stevens laid out would have been suspended for if he played today. The other reason, as you mentioned, is the sheer speed & athleticism of todays players. They're bigger and stronger than ever and that will result in more injuries, especially when someone has their head down, or is admiring a pass.

This is bang on. Hockey's been reduced to a game where any sort of contact is immediately under scrutiny and up for suspension. It's pathetic.

Dubz
04-24-2012, 11:33 AM
This is bang on. Hockey's been reduced to a game where any sort of contact is immediately under scrutiny and up for suspension. It's pathetic.

Yeah pretty soon women will be allowed in the NHL becuase the contact will be like two hand touch football that you play in the school yard. I am being overly sarcastic but im on the side of a cheap shot is policed on the ice by the players. If you dont let that happen they will continue to take the 2500 fines or trade out Torres for Hossa or Hagelin for Alfredsson etc. Its pathetic, really it is. Imagine if Lucic ran Miller now!! Id bet he would be gone for 5-10. Anyways, i gotta stop, getting worked up haha

Oh and this was a funny ass suspension



Matt Carkner
OTT
04/15/2012
1 game for fighting




I thought it was 5 minutes? :banghead:

Kyle
04-24-2012, 01:13 PM
This is bang on. Hockey's been reduced to a game where any sort of contact is immediately under scrutiny and up for suspension. It's pathetic.

Wrong. You'd just prefer the league made no adjustment to the superior speed and athleticism of it's players and act like we could safely keep pace with the way it was played before. We can't. Open your eyes, if the league didn't have a mass, "pussywhipped" collective effort to suspend hits that were okay 10 years ago, we would have MUCH more injuries and specifically concussions than we did 10 years ago. NOT just because those concussions are more documented now, but because they actually are occurring at a much higher rate because of the way the game has progressed.

Its incredibly narrow-sighted to imply that these hits were okay before, therefor the only difference now is the league is more sissywhipped. Honestly, its ridiculous. The difference now is the game is more dangerous and more likely to result in an injury and adjustments were sorely needed. Get over it or come up with a miracle solution to reduce the likelyhood that these guys end their careers a fucking braindead retard at 40. If you can't do that, you should realize you're bitching and moaning about a collective effort to save human lives. To give these guys who start their adult lives spending 22 years traveling an extra 10-15 years with their families before going braindead because we didn't address the concussion inssue. Not being overdramatic in the slightest. Its fucked up that you guys want to see people go through that shit just to entertain yourselves, like the game isn't maddeningly entertaining already without all the bullshit.

This 1st round was among the dirtiest in the 25 years I've watched hockey, if not the single very worst. With or without the suspensions. It was a fucking disgusting, brutal 1st round all around and anyone who calls that playoff hockey is a total dipshit. Torres, Shaw, Asham, Neal, Weber, Bitz, Hagelin, Carkner, Backstrom, all made the league look shitty in less than 1 month and all of those were plays we should never see in the game. Those aren't examples of the league's sissywhipped direction, they were simply terrible hockey plays occurring more frequently than most have ever seen.

Spike TV just needs to start catching slaves and pitting them in gladiator style fights to the death. Because between this silly shit I'm reading now, and all the dumbass nonsense I read from people thinking the NFL bounty scandal wasn't such a huge deal, its very obvious a large chunk of hockey/football fans would like to watch nothing else.

phaneuf6
04-24-2012, 04:00 PM
Well I mean, the fact that the leagues adjustments actually caused the problem in the first place kind of discounts that whole post...

Kyle
04-24-2012, 04:27 PM
Its truly staggering how smart and knowledgeable you are about hockey but how ignorant and naive you're acting in regards to the issue of violent hits/suspensions. You're playing so dumb.

Lets address your absolutely insane insinuation that the league is responsible for the violence currently occurring. The league did what it had to do to make itself appealing and entertaining. Now those changes have changed the violence and danger in the sport. The next logical step is to rewrite whats acceptable and what isn't for the sake of protecting players and bringing injuries in line and on a scale that doesn't guarantee everybody in the league goes braindead by 40-50. The league immediately stepped in and made these adjustments post-lockout. You, and other stubborn purists, oppose this in literally every way imaginable. Its all the pussification of the NHL and no matter what changes in the game, acceptable hits 10-15 years ago should be just as acceptable today. AKA - "Change is hard so I'll just cry and bitch about it instead of adjusting." Get over it. Stop sitting there and sympathizing with reckless assholes who have failed to adjust in 5-6 years now. That might be difficult though because you've failed to adjust just as much.

The faster paced, higher-flying NHL was a necessity because the league wasn't just dying - It was dead. Hockey was getting lower ratings than bowling on ESPN, and the league and its players were not considered significant to a USA market that the league is completely dependent on. So, please suggest what the league could have done to fix this (And they did brilliantly fix it, the game is so much more exciting, skillful, and competitive than hockey has ever been. More balanced than any sport) while maintaining a niche for Scott-Stevens like players? The NHL eliminated clutch and grab, the game doubled in speed, and adjustments were inevitable. You sound so whiny sitting there saying "Its like you can't hit anybody without immediate scrutiny." Sorry players are getting concussed every day, the NHL will certainly try to make a smaller deal out of it for the sake of your senseless bitching.:rolleyes:

Sure, they could've NOT made the changes and this new injury/violent fad likely would not have erupted to such an extent because the league would've stayed consistent with how hockey has always been played...But then you'd be preferring trap-style clutching and grabbing. Good luck finding many to agree with that dude.

So, no, the leagues adjustment caused no problems. Failure by a lot of players to adjust created problems. The league had to change the game the way it did, there simply is no question about that from anybody short of a fool who'd prefer to not watch hockey at all. Now the league is slamming down (albeit inconsistently and improperly) on the idiots who can't make this adjustment. The league is literally perfectly in the right in all of this. The players and ogre-minded fans who insist on infusing dangerous old-school elements of hockey with the new way the game is to be played (Which makes those old-school elements MUCH more dangerous like those scott stevens hits which would be a death sentence to throw around today's faster game) are in the wrong, completely.

The only thing the NHL has done wrong is hand out inconsistent suspensions and fail to punish the earlier offenses harsh enough, opening the floodgates for irresponsible players to follow suit. The suspensions handed out are borderline outrageously senseless. But every single suspended hit, should be suspended, should be eliminated from the game.

Hockey is no more safe than its ever been because of all the pussification efforts you complain about. Its simply being brought in line with the violence/danger we've always accepted, simply delivered differently and more within the context of a legal hockey play (Rather than deliberate efforts to hurt players like we used to constantly see). Hilarious to me that anybody has any issue with that.

Kyle
04-24-2012, 04:41 PM
PS - The last handful of playoff seasons have been so incredibly entertaining and successful. Its so funny that anyone could deny how horribly awful this first round has been from the violence perspective when we've seen what the playoffs should look like year after year. The Penguins vs Washington 7 game series was one of the best all time, Detroit vs Penguin 7 game series one of the best all time, the 3-0 comebacks, the Montreal Cinderella story... playoff hockey has been so fucking entertaining and NONE of this bullshit was occurring in those series at even 10% the frequency its occurring right now. Player discipline collapsed this season and the onus is on them to change it or deal with increasingly harsh suspensions.

Doctego
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
A lot of what I see has to do with a mentality and not the fact that players are bigger and stronger now. Players have less regard for each other than in years past. Shit like what Asham did, for example, have nothing to do with bigger and stronger. There are a lot more incidents like that.

Kyle
04-24-2012, 07:35 PM
But the issues with concussions aren't hits like Ashams Doc. That bullshit doesn't get people concussed by default, it breaks bones and looks stupidly brutal. Thats just an example of this particularly nasty playoff year. The entire issues of concussions stemmed from the faster pace of the game. For every incident like Weber where he could've concussed Zetterberg by disregarding player respect, the next 10 concussions are simply the result of players throwing the same hits they used to be able to throw at much faster speeds than they used to be delivered. The concussion issue is definitely the result of opening the game and making it faster and the NHL has appropriately adjusted headshot rules to compensate. Players simply haven't listened.

Hits from behind along the boards is the other golden example of the type of collision thats become dangerous due to today's faster game. These hits didn't used to cause concussions as often as they do today.

Nicklas Kronwall is what the NHL wants their biggest hits to look like. Torres butchered that mold to the highest extent and hits like that are the big issues with the game today. Maybe when Torres did that 10 years ago he never had the opportunity to build up quite so much momentum because it was way harder to find open space and get away from grabbing. The sheer speed of his hit elevated it from a violent high hit to a potential career-ender. It didn't cause damage like it did to Hossa often enough to make a big deal of it in the past. Now its not rare. The NHL had to address it and its a bit outrageous IMO for people to ignore that and say "Its so lame the way they scrutinize every hit now." The hits are scrutinized because more players are getting hurt, if that doesn't matter, what else does?!

NHL athletes exploded physically much the same as NFL athletes and violent collisions have exponentially grown just the same.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
04-25-2012, 04:08 AM
Wrong. You'd just prefer the league made no adjustment to the superior speed and athleticism of it's players and act like we could safely keep pace with the way it was played before. We can't. Open your eyes, if the league didn't have a mass, "pussywhipped" collective effort to suspend hits that were okay 10 years ago, we would have MUCH more injuries and specifically concussions than we did 10 years ago. NOT just because those concussions are more documented now, but because they actually are occurring at a much higher rate because of the way the game has progressed.

Its incredibly narrow-sighted to imply that these hits were okay before, therefor the only difference now is the league is more sissywhipped. Honestly, its ridiculous. The difference now is the game is more dangerous and more likely to result in an injury and adjustments were sorely needed. Get over it or come up with a miracle solution to reduce the likelyhood that these guys end their careers a fucking braindead retard at 40. If you can't do that, you should realize you're bitching and moaning about a collective effort to save human lives. To give these guys who start their adult lives spending 22 years traveling an extra 10-15 years with their families before going braindead because we didn't address the concussion inssue. Not being overdramatic in the slightest. Its fucked up that you guys want to see people go through that shit just to entertain yourselves, like the game isn't maddeningly entertaining already without all the bullshit.

This 1st round was among the dirtiest in the 25 years I've watched hockey, if not the single very worst. With or without the suspensions. It was a fucking disgusting, brutal 1st round all around and anyone who calls that playoff hockey is a total dipshit. Torres, Shaw, Asham, Neal, Weber, Bitz, Hagelin, Carkner, Backstrom, all made the league look shitty in less than 1 month and all of those were plays we should never see in the game. Those aren't examples of the league's sissywhipped direction, they were simply terrible hockey plays occurring more frequently than most have ever seen.

Spike TV just needs to start catching slaves and pitting them in gladiator style fights to the death. Because between this silly shit I'm reading now, and all the dumbass nonsense I read from people thinking the NFL bounty scandal wasn't such a huge deal, its very obvious a large chunk of hockey/football fans would like to watch nothing else.

Well said Kyle. I tend to think along similar lines when it comes to this stuff.


A lot of what I see has to do with a mentality and not the fact that players are bigger and stronger now. Players have less regard for each other than in years past. Shit like what Asham did, for example, have nothing to do with bigger and stronger. There are a lot more incidents like that.

Doc I totally agree that this is a huge part of the problem. Respect among opponents, honor among thieves, etc.. just seems to be a thing of the past. But why? Any thoughts on why the fuck this has happened? What the heck has changed?

habsfan1
04-25-2012, 08:43 AM
Concussion List (just a few)

Syndey Crosby
Chris Pronger
Carey Price
Daniel Sedin
Jonathan Toews
David Perron
Ryan Miller
Niklas Backstrom
Taylor Hall
Andy McDonald
Nathan Horton
Kris Letang
Simon Gagne
Alex Steen
Marc Savard

And there is plenty more.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/injuries/nhl/all/ (currently as per rotoworld there are 24 players suffering with concussions right now)

This is why the NHL wants to do away with hits to the head.

Kyle
04-25-2012, 12:24 PM
This is where purists say "Nothing new, they're just more documented now." :rolleyes: Its obviously an incredibly huge problem, Habsfan, its amazing to me that some people don't want to see every step taken to reverse this trend.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
04-25-2012, 04:06 PM
Concussion List (just a few)

Syndey Crosby
Chris Pronger
Carey Price
Daniel Sedin
Jonathan Toews
David Perron
Ryan Miller
Niklas Backstrom
Taylor Hall
Andy McDonald
Nathan Horton
Kris Letang
Simon Gagne
Alex Steen
Marc Savard

And there is plenty more.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/injuries/nhl/all/ (currently as per rotoworld there are 24 players suffering with concussions right now)

This is why the NHL wants to do away with hits to the head.

Yet the league seem to be sending mixed messages with their inconsistency in punishments. It is simply mind boggling.

Kyle
04-25-2012, 05:14 PM
Yeah. The harsh punishments are fine. Its the lack of punishment on a lot of hits that clearly violates the new direction the NHL is trying to move in, that baffles me. Homerism aside, the Weber nonsense is a great example. Inconsistency has reduced the league to a joke in the public eye.

Doctego
04-25-2012, 10:48 PM
It works both ways, though. I completely agree that hits, especially high and with bad intentions, have no place in the game but the players receiving the hits have to also be aware of their surroundings. While there are many instances that there is nothing that they can do, there are instances like the Boyle hit where you have to know where you are and not have your head down in that situation.

phaneuf6
04-25-2012, 11:13 PM
Its truly staggering how smart and knowledgeable you are about hockey but how ignorant and naive you're acting in regards to the issue of violent hits/suspensions. You're playing so dumb.

While I'm in no way backing down from my previous posts, a lot of it is to create some debate over the game today...it gets boring when everybody agrees all the time.


Lets address your absolutely insane insinuation that the league is responsible for the violence currently occurring. The league did what it had to do to make itself appealing and entertaining. Now those changes have changed the violence and danger in the sport. The next logical step is to rewrite whats acceptable and what isn't for the sake of protecting players and bringing injuries in line and on a scale that doesn't guarantee everybody in the league goes braindead by 40-50. The league immediately stepped in and made these adjustments post-lockout. You, and other stubborn purists, oppose this in literally every way imaginable. Its all the pussification of the NHL and no matter what changes in the game, acceptable hits 10-15 years ago should be just as acceptable today. AKA - "Change is hard so I'll just cry and bitch about it instead of adjusting." Get over it. Stop sitting there and sympathizing with reckless assholes who have failed to adjust in 5-6 years now. That might be difficult though because you've failed to adjust just as much.

What was wrong with clean hits 10-15 years ago? By definition, none of these heads are necessarily dirty by today's "new" rules. The headshot/blindside rule is the biggest change that may affect some of those old hits.

However, consider this for a moment. The NHL has installed these rules that essentially protect any player who wants to skate across the middle of the ice with their head down. Pre-lockout, you had defensemen like Scott Stevens who esssentially made sure players had their heads up because they were aware of the consequences otherwise. These same players now skate over the blue-line knowing that nobody will hit them because they'll face league punishment. Then you get the Torres' of the league who do hit them and you have potentially career threatening injuries.



The faster paced, higher-flying NHL was a necessity because the league wasn't just dying - It was dead. Hockey was getting lower ratings than bowling on ESPN, and the league and its players were not considered significant to a USA market that the league is completely dependent on. So, please suggest what the league could have done to fix this (And they did brilliantly fix it, the game is so much more exciting, skillful, and competitive than hockey has ever been. More balanced than any sport) while maintaining a niche for Scott-Stevens like players? The NHL eliminated clutch and grab, the game doubled in speed, and adjustments were inevitable. You sound so whiny sitting there saying "Its like you can't hit anybody without immediate scrutiny." Sorry players are getting concussed every day, the NHL will certainly try to make a smaller deal out of it for the sake of your senseless bitching.:rolleyes:


I can't speak to how the league was "dead" because I have grown up and lived in Toronto my whole life, where hockey will never be dead. This is what I will say though. Success on the ice equals success in the stands and on the balance sheet. The rule changes, while they certainly changed the product and could be argued turned around the market in the US, were not solely responsible for reviving hockey.

The salary cap is what made hockey more of a success in the US because it allowed any and all markets to compete. When there's a winning team in town, regardless of what sport, people want to go and watch. Nashville, Phoenix, Tampa, to name a few, started drawing bigger crowds when, surprise surprise, they were winning. The Islanders drew crowds when they were winning Cups, and now that they're a perennial bottom feeder they don't get any fans at all. They're all playing with these same new rules, the same exciting, new brand of hockey. The only difference is their position in the standings and it has, in many US markets, a direct correlation to their attendance numbers and their fan bases.


So, no, the leagues adjustment caused no problems. Failure by a lot of players to adjust created problems. The league had to change the game the way it did, there simply is no question about that from anybody short of a fool who'd prefer to not watch hockey at all. Now the league is slamming down (albeit inconsistently and improperly) on the idiots who can't make this adjustment. The league is literally perfectly in the right in all of this. The players and ogre-minded fans who insist on infusing dangerous old-school elements of hockey with the new way the game is to be played (Which makes those old-school elements MUCH more dangerous like those scott stevens hits which would be a death sentence to throw around today's faster game) are in the wrong, completely.

The only thing the NHL has done wrong is hand out inconsistent suspensions and fail to punish the earlier offenses harsh enough, opening the floodgates for irresponsible players to follow suit. The suspensions handed out are borderline outrageously senseless. But every single suspended hit, should be suspended, should be eliminated from the game.

Hockey is no more safe than its ever been because of all the pussification efforts you complain about. Its simply being brought in line with the violence/danger we've always accepted, simply delivered differently and more within the context of a legal hockey play (Rather than deliberate efforts to hurt players like we used to constantly see). Hilarious to me that anybody has any issue with that.

To wrap it up, I basically think all accountability has been removed from the players' shoulders because the rulebook is so thick nowadays that they're protected from basically every angle. The way I grew up playing, and the way the NHL used to be was, you skated through the middle with your head down, or you turned your back at the last second in the corner, you got decked. And the next time you had to make a similar play, you remembered that time and you adjusted. Ultimately, it should be the players dictating the way the game is played, and more importantly the way they're going to play. With this many rules and so much uproar over every single borderline hit, there's essentially no onus on the players to be accountable for the positions they put themselves in on the ice and as a result, people are getting seriously injured.

Kyle
04-26-2012, 12:00 AM
Good post Phaneuf. I can respect your position now that you've explained yourself a bit beyond "Its like you can't hit anybody without immediate scrutiny." I'm still firmly planted where I stand but know that I agree with putting more responsibility on players to protect themselves and play more safely. Even when we were discussing the Neil/Pacioretty hits just a day or two back I mentioned the clear irresponsibility of the two victims in both cases. I hate how naive and careless the victims in a lot of these hits have acted.

But, lately, specifically this playoffs, I'm simply seeing more deliberate headhunting than I feel I ever did in this sport, and more senselessly dirty plays in a month than we should expect in a full playoff season. Players can do whatever they want to avoid dangerous areas but a lot of these suspended plays are simply unavoidable by the victims, more-so than I've ever seen.

phaneuf6
04-26-2012, 09:45 AM
Good post Phaneuf. I can respect your position now that you've explained yourself a bit beyond "Its like you can't hit anybody without immediate scrutiny." I'm still firmly planted where I stand but know that I agree with putting more responsibility on players to protect themselves and play more safely. Even when we were discussing the Neil/Pacioretty hits just a day or two back I mentioned the clear irresponsibility of the two victims in both cases. I hate how naive and careless the victims in a lot of these hits have acted.

But, lately, specifically this playoffs, I'm simply seeing more deliberate headhunting than I feel I ever did in this sport, and more senselessly dirty plays in a month than we should expect in a full playoff season. Players can do whatever they want to avoid dangerous areas but a lot of these suspended plays are simply unavoidable by the victims, more-so than I've ever seen.

Sorry I haven't really had time to commit to actually explaining myself lately, got some stuff going on.

But in terms of Sponge's question about the increasing lack of respect, if that's what we're going to call it, I can see where it's coming from.

Take a look at your favourite NHL team's roster. Look at today's version, and go back about 2 years and look at it. There's a lot more turnover in the NHL nowadays in the bottom 6 forwards and bottom 4 defensemen than there was 10 years ago, or at least IMO. With the younger generation coming up with the speed and skill that they have, it's really hard for a guy like Asham, Torres, etc to hold onto a full-time NHL gig. Therefore they need to differentiate themselves and show their value to the team, or else why would you keep a guy like that over an up and coming 21 year old? I think that's where you see a lot of these hits coming from. Guys trying to carve a role for themselves out of pure desperation for keeping a job. This is their livelihood we're talking about here after all.

Granted, you do have guys like Duncan Keith and Shea Weber pulling some of these hits off now, which is unfortunate, but that's hockey too. When you get men playing against eachother constantly over an 82 game season, over 'x' number of seasons, you're going to grow to like some of your opponents, and dislike others. Just a part of being human I suppose.