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Chilly_Willy
02-11-2011, 11:48 AM
Anyone think Crosby should just call it a season? Not sure I would want to rush a top 3 player back. Why not let the symptoms totally clear, and then some. Come back next fall. Just hope he makes it through hope that wasn't a career changing injury.

abusiveninja
02-11-2011, 12:03 PM
I wonder if Malkin's injury has him saying FUCK IT.

madsci
02-11-2011, 12:29 PM
I'd love to see Crosby pull a Jacques Plante and wear a full face shield when he comes back. Send a signal to the league and other players that it's time to take hits to the head seriously.

I'm glad he's not rushing back.

nyrblue2
02-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Except for direct facial injuries (broken nose, orbital bone, teeth, etc.), a full face shield won't do anything to protect head injuries like concussions.

madsci
02-11-2011, 12:47 PM
Face shields don't seem to reduce # of concussions but do seem to reduce their severity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724466/


The impact of face shield use on concussions in ice hockey: a multivariate analysis
B Benson, M Rose, W Meeuwisse, J Kissick, and W Roberts
Faculty of Medicine, University of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

Conclusions: The use of a full face shield compared with half face shield by intercollegiate ice hockey players significantly reduced the playing time lost because of concussion, suggesting that concussion severity may be reduced by the use of a full face shield.

Also these:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19433427?ordinalpos=1&itool=PPMCLayout.PPMCAppController.PPMCArticlePage .PPMCPubmedRA&linkpos=5

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10612320?ordinalpos=1&itool=PPMCLayout.PPMCAppController.PPMCArticlePage .PPMCPubmedRA&linkpos=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11798994?ordinalpos=1&itool=PPMCLayout.PPMCAppController.PPMCArticlePage .PPMCPubmedRA&linkpos=2

canuckthug
02-11-2011, 12:52 PM
^
interesting study but at the NHL level, hits are harder!


When Mark Messier retired, he was part of a team making new & improved helmets to reduce concussions. He was working with NFL people or something along those lines.. not sure if this project went ahead or fell to the wayside.


edit:

cool, here it is... the messierproject.com i'd wear that no questions asked but do NHLers?
http://themessierproject.com/

Hamsterkill
02-11-2011, 12:54 PM
Anyone think Crosby should just call it a season? Not sure I would want to rush a top 3 player back. Why not let the symptoms totally clear, and then some. Come back next fall. Just hope he makes it through hope that wasn't a career changing injury.
It's not as if they're rushing him. They're going to be careful with him.

I wonder if Malkin's injury has him saying FUCK IT.
I don't think "Aw, fuck it..." is something Crosby has ever said in his life. The Kid has no quit in him.

NeelyDan
02-11-2011, 12:55 PM
love madsci for busting out scholarly articles lol

well played sir

madsci
02-11-2011, 12:58 PM
love madsci for busting out scholarly articles lol

well played sir

That's how I roll :cool:

:lol:

phaneuf6
02-11-2011, 01:18 PM
Crosby is not going to want to wear a jizz-shield when he comes back.

Also, I laughed when Chilly started things by saying "top 3 player"... are we still at the point where we can't acknowledge that he's the best player in the world?

two24four
02-11-2011, 01:21 PM
He would be smart to sit the rest of the season, just look at what happend to Savard for rushing back in last years playoffs, then he missed the 1st part of this season, gets hit again when he comes back and he's out again, his career might even be over.

Chilly_Willy
02-11-2011, 01:22 PM
I think he is the best player in the world, I just had rather the thread be about his injury and not a flame fest about everyone's pet #1 LOL.

I remember hearing about the Messier helmet. Peter Mueller was supposed to try one and it was going to be ready shortly after he got his preseason concussion.

phaneuf6
02-11-2011, 01:25 PM
Not sure how many of you will remember Alan McCauley, he played for the Leafs, among others. He had concussion issues and he came back with a specially designed helmet. I wonder if he's still in that business, he's only 33 and he's been retired for awhile.

two24four
02-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Not sure how many of you will remember Alan McCauley, he played for the Leafs, among others. He had concussion issues and he came back with a specially designed helmet. I wonder if he's still in that business, he's only 33 and he's been retired for awhile.

He's a scout for the LA Kings now.

Chilly_Willy
02-11-2011, 01:29 PM
If I understand concussions right its basically the brain collides with the skull on an impact. Think of the brain like an egg, the egg hits a surface and the yoke inside can smash against the shell and bruise but the shell is not broken. I once heard that the brain is similar to the constancy of jello.

I wonder if you could design like a mini airbag like devise for sever impacts, after deployed have a light or signal that it went off then on shift change they can recharge the unit on the bench. Need to find a way to distribute the impact and slow the sudden stop where the brain collides with the bone.

phaneuf6
02-11-2011, 01:31 PM
If I understand concussions right its basically the brain collides with the skull on an impact. Think of the brain like an egg, the egg hits a surface and the yoke inside can smash against the shell and bruise but the shell is not broken. I once heard that the brain is similar to the constancy of jello.

I wonder if you could design like a mini airbag like devise for sever impacts, after deployed have a light or signal that it went off then on shift change they can recharge the unit on the bench. Need to find a way to distribute the impact and slow the sudden stop where the brain collides with the bone.

Pretty sure you can get a concussion from impact with an airbag too, :lol:. Everybody reacts differently from concussions. I played hockey with a guy when we were only 12 and he had 3 or 4 concussions in one season, to the point where he could take an innocent looking hit and he'd be in the dressing room throwing up immediately. It's scary stuff, and I think the Pens management will have a long hard look at the cost-benefit of bringing Crosby back this year.

madsci
02-11-2011, 01:54 PM
Yeah, the problem with concussions is that they're still really poorly understood. The biology of the brain is complicated - it's more than just a bruise that heals. There seems to be a buildup of weird proteins that can occur over time and be persistent in the brain, which looks like what you see in Alzheimer's, and you can have problems with dementia or memory over time, but not always. And it isn't always more concussions = worse outcomes, though that's often the case.

That's why it's really great that many athletes are now donating their brains to research, like Tony Proudfoot of the CFL, who just died of ALS at 61 years old.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Former+Alouette+Proudfoot+loses+battle+with/4045473/story.html

What we do know, though, is that it's serious business and these guys could end up debilitated for life. And it's a bigger and bigger issue as the guys get faster and bigger. The league has to deal with it.

Chilly_Willy
02-11-2011, 02:15 PM
The electrochemical function of the brain would be easily disrupted so yeah a buildup of proteins would short circuit a lot of activity. A lot of athletes report confusion and slowness as symptoms of concussion. Pretty cool what the athletes like Probert and Proudfoot are doing. Researchers will learn a ton about sports related brain injuries that way.

Yes airbags can give concussions also. Really any sudden stop or jerking motion can do it actually. The knockout blow in fighting sports is actually the skeletal structure of the head spinning faster than the brain, think the egg analogy again. Just totally short circuits the brain function and causes the body goes limp.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
02-12-2011, 04:39 AM
Grab a beach chair and go chill, Sid. Fuck it. Potentially out for the rest of the year. I know there is no quit in him or this team but sometimes you got to set aside the short term vision for the sake of a long term one. This obviously isn't a Stanley Cup Contending team without two of the best in the game, and you know what? I don't care.

Crosby and the Pens have handled this just right so far. If it comes down to it, continue to be as careful as possible and get this guy healthy and back out there next year. I know he gets a lot of hate from fans of other teams and what not but say what you will, the guy really is the best in the game. He's been out what, a month now? Still 2nd in goal scoring and just BARELY got dropped down to number 4 in total league points.

Yes. He is that good. You don't rush a guy like this and I am totally good with seeing him take the rest of the season off. Major drag to what seemed to be a promising season for the Penguins but whatever. Live to die another day.

Rest up, kid. If it's a matter of health and longevity? See you next year. :beer:

canuckthug
03-13-2011, 02:51 AM
They showed Sid a bunch of times during their home game vs the Habs. He was signing autographs and taking pics with some fans. I still think he will be back this season but im not basing that on anything, just an opinion.

edit: There were some rumors about his Family telling him to retire. Im not sure if he squashed those or if there was truth to that.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
03-13-2011, 03:50 AM
He is still experiencing headaches and post concussion symptoms. It is very frustrating. He took one, two cheap ass shots and those hits have his season and imo career in jeopardy.. sad.

Personally? I think he is done for the year and to be quite honest with you all -- I fucking hope that he is. Weeks ago I said that I hope they shut him down for the year.

Retirement suggestions ? Could be true but I can't see the kid just shutting it down like that. It def. won't happen by choice.... for a guy like this, the passion of this sport is in the soul and the blood, you don't just give up on that. It will be a Marc Savard or Eric Lindros type situation. He will come back, experience issues, get knocked out again, whatever... but there is no way Sidney Crosby just says it's over without major attempts to come back and continue to play. No fucking way.

He is young but the brain is a tricky thing. I pray and hope he can recover. I know there is a lot of hate for the kid amongst fans of the game but set that aside and respect the talent -- hopefully he can come back healthy and strong, this is a rare and premiere skill set on display.. and it is always a sad shame to see such a special thing ended way too soon.

canuckthug
03-13-2011, 04:02 AM
^
agreed.. no way he shuts it down without giving it another shot at some point. And if Crosby happens to have a short NHL career,
a) that would suck bigtime and
b) it would be the biggest loss to the game. He cannot be replaced.



side note.. not everybody hates Crosby!

edit: i use the word 'everybody' which is obviously not true.. the way it was worded, i just wanted to comment on it.
I know there is a lot of hate for the kid amongst fans of the game but set that aside and respect the talent --

I agree, a lot of people hated Crosby in his rookie campaign because he chirped too much but i dont think alot of people still hate him. (he did back up his rookie year chirping witha 100 point season) However, i think more people have respect for him than hatred as the years went on. Having said that, In Canada, he is definitely not hated!! --->not even close. Golden Goal cemented that legacy!!

Raja
03-13-2011, 09:13 AM
I believe the retirement rumors were squashed by Dreger and somebody else, saying his family has been nothing but supportive for his passion for the game or something like that. I hope he's out for the season too, and shouldn't even start next season unless he feels 100%. If he decides to retire or doesn't come back at nearly the same level, there will be a huge fiasco on headshots and concussions more so than there is now.

Rocklobster
03-13-2011, 11:06 AM
I think he's improving more than what they lead people to believe.
They are resting him for the playoffs IMO because why bring him back if they are going to make the playoffs anyway. not worth the risk to injury their #1 guy especially since their #2 guy is out. Yahoo notes just says symptoms include "headaches"

Didn't gretzky years ago have a concussion and he stayed out purposely longer because it was proving a point you don't go after the face of the league? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else... but I've been hearing things like that in discussions.
Crosby could be doing that too, he brings a lot of fans to the game and revenue for the league and the whole league should be thanking him, not trying to take him out.

Kyle
03-13-2011, 11:03 PM
Crosby could be doing that too, he brings a lot of fans to the game and revenue for the league and the whole league should be thanking him, not trying to take him out.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

What the fuck? Dirty hits are bullshit. But they're everywhere. Crosby is not a target. He plays in grimey areas way too often to even insinuate the league should give him some sort of special treatment because he raises average player salaries. Absolutely ridiculous, could not disagree anymore. Times have changed since Gretzky's era. You pretty much had to go out of your way to nail Gretzky. Crosby lives on the boards and in front of the net. He uses his size to his advantage constantly and of course hes going to get smashed through the years.:rolleyes:

phaneuf6
03-13-2011, 11:37 PM
Of course Crosby's a target. Just because he plays in the 'dirty areas', doesn't negate that fact. He's more likely to get hit yea, but guys are going to try hit 87 a lot harder than usual IMO.

Kyle
03-13-2011, 11:40 PM
History more than speaks for itself. Crosby is obviously not any more frequent a target of dirty hits than anyone else who plays his minutes. People clearly don't go out of their way to attack him specifically. And Crosby has acted like a punk on the ice many times. That kind of behavior gets you targeted to an extent with or without your star status. Hes toned it down lately but reputations take more time than that to change leaguewide. Theres nothing unfair about the physical treatment Crosby gets on the ice as a result of his star status. The league owes him no sort of change in demeanor.

canuckthug
03-14-2011, 12:49 AM
History more than speaks for itself. Crosby is obviously not any more frequent a target of dirty hits than anyone else who plays his minutes. People clearly don't go out of their way to attack him specifically. And Crosby has acted like a punk on the ice many times. That kind of behavior gets you targeted to an extent with or without your star status. Hes toned it down lately but reputations take more time than that to change leaguewide. Theres nothing unfair about the physical treatment Crosby gets on the ice as a result of his star status.

what about the hit(s) in question, the ones that put him out, were they clean hits?

Crosby is obviously not any more frequent a target of dirty hits than anyone else who plays his minutes.
-almost sounds like your justifying dirty hits. nobody should be a target for dirty hits.. no excuse for that in the game today.

I've always thought the Washington hit was late..(outdoor classic hit). Gonna have to take a closer look... I have no problem if the hits were legal. I havent seen the 2nd one he took (next game) but Steckel is a bum. Crosby could use an enforcer so this stuff won't happen. Steckel should have been beat down IMO regardless. Clean or not Clean, Crosby is a star and you dont get away with hitting stars. Gretzky had McCsorley to prevent this. If somebody touched Gretzky, you were getting beat up and that threat does not exist for Crosby. Its open season on him. Having said that, here is a closer look at the 1st hit. Dirty or Clean. I underline nothing unfair statement because i say Dirt.

-this one (sounds like Eddie .O.) says Crosby was blindsided and from this 'convincing' angle it appears that way. The media perpetuates the circumstances of the event whether right or wrong.
YouTube - 2011 Winter Classic - Sidney Crosby Concussion Hit

same hit, different angle, different announce team = different viewpoint. having seen this one Crosby doesnt touch the puck. (attempts to kick it)
YouTube - 2011 Winter Classic - David Steckel's Hit On Sidney Crosby
and this angle it appears Steckle is just skating his route and bumps into him inadvertently (according to CBC). To define inadvertent not to say anyone doesnt know what it means but .... - 1. Not duly attentive. 2. Marked by unintentional lack of care. Unintentional lack of care makes it more dirty than clean in my books.
YouTube - 2011 Winter classic - David Steckel blind side hit on Sindey Crosby
and finally, Don Cherry/Ron's take. (usually lol @ Don but hes often right IMO-->big teflon shoulder pads are a problem )
YouTube - David Steckel Blindside Hit On Sidney Crosby

Kyle
03-14-2011, 01:05 AM
what about the hit(s) in question, the ones that put him out, were they clean hits?


Your comphrension is terrible if you thought I said he never recieved a dirty hit. Do you know how few players make it through a career without being on the recieving end a handful of times, if not much more?




-almost sounds like your justifying dirty hits. nobody should be a target for dirty hits.. no excuse for that in the game today


What?! Almost sounds like you're bat-shit crazy. Whos words are you even reading? Where did I even begin to address the morality behind dirty hits and jusify them? Again, the comprehension on display here is extraordinarily offbase. You make some of the most ridiculous points of anybody I've debated with. The point is, dirty hits occur. And in this league where they occur, Crosby in his young career has not been specifically targetted any worse than the average player in this league. Hes clearly not been a target through his early years.

I never said the league doesn't need to continue to address and fight to eliminate dirty hits. I said Crosby specifically has no reason to recieve some leguewide memo telling players to back off. Players don't headhunt him specifically. Grinders try to send messages to top stars of every team. Crosby recieves no specifically dirty treatment in the league, hes just an unfortuate victom of universal percentages. Some players get less lucky than others.

And steckels hit was clearly not dirty, IMO.

Crosby's skating path was an odd half-moon. His trajectory was curved and he began skating even farther into Steckels path AFTER Steckel had turned on the burners and started up ice.

Farther more, Steckels shoulder clearly wasn't preparing for a hit. The only reason he even somewhat moved up with the hit is because he coincidentally happened to be stepping off of his right foot in that moment. But it was obviously a natural and straightforward skating motion, not an attempted hit.

Crosby could've been equally aware and made an easy dodge on the play. I mean, all he had to do was not skate into it. Steckel bears the blunt of the blame for being reckless but to somehow use that garbage as evidence that hes head hunted? Please.

canuckthug
03-14-2011, 01:41 AM
^
The first quote was just a question. Nothing more. I just wanted to know if people think the hit was dirty or not.

The second quote.. I used the word, 'Almost.' indicating i know you dont condone Dirty hits in any shape or form... settle down chief,. the part about nobody should be a target for dirty hits.. no excuse for that in the game today is just a comment on the state of the game today and i could have put that anywhere in the said post. It wasnt a personal attack on your argument although it could appear that way.. Having said that, it doesnt matter how many minutes one plays( universal percentages )when speaking of dirty hits. Clean hits, hit the guy 1000 times, i dont care..

Stuff happens when playing in the dirty areas of the rink but to call it a "victim of universal percentages" as you put it--- is 'almost' sugar coating it. There is that word again..almost. Im just saying, this stuff happens all the time--- in open ice. dirty hits should be eliminated from the game and the league does not do justice IMO. They are not regulating the game properly. Maybe the steckel hit is not the best example but its happening too often...

Kyle
03-14-2011, 03:48 AM
Having said that, it doesnt matter how many minutes one plays( universal percentages )


It matters a ton. You play 20 minutes a night, you should be roughly twice as likely to recieve a dirty hit as someone who plays 10. The point was he shouldn't be compared to the entire league to determine how often hes targetted, he should be compared to players who play 20+ minutes for the sake of an accurate comparison.



Maybe the steckel hit is not the best example but its happening too often...


You should really look around a bit. I'm almost always the one aguing the hit was dirty. That the league didn't do enough. You don't need to tell me its happening too often. I don't like cheap shots in this league but I do NOT think that players need to stop and rethink their approach towards Sidney Crosby specifically. He is not some helpless victom of a game for ogres. Hes had his ogre moments. And hes recieved his share too. Theres nothing unique about the physical treatment Crosby has gotten from others.

My disagreement is that Crosby should get some special treatment to help keep him in the game longer. Fuck that nonsense. Play your heart out against everybody. Doesn't mean cheap shot him. Thats never right, and should always be harshly punished. But I don't want to see anyone looking like they ease off of hits for the kid's sake.

chgorman
03-14-2011, 08:27 AM
and this angle it appears Steckle is just skating his route and bumps into him inadvertently (according to CBC). To define inadvertent not to say anyone doesnt know what it means but .... - 1. Not duly attentive. 2. Marked by unintentional lack of care. Unintentional lack of care makes it more dirty than clean in my books.

This comment would make sense if you replaced the word 'unintentional' with 'intentional'.

Intentional lack of care would be more dirty than clean, no doubt. How can a hit be 'more dirty than clean' if it was a result of unintentional/inadvertent contact? I guess maybe you could call it dirty if it was a reckless play on Steckel's part, but I don't think it was.

To me, 'unintentional lack of care' implies it was an accident, i.e. no malicious intent. How can a hit be considered dirty if it was an accident, unless it was a result of extremely reckless play?

Gern Blansten
03-14-2011, 09:26 AM
Would appear he back on this ice.

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=555960

Rocklobster
03-14-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm gonna try and not make a huge long reply, don't have time but kyle, holy shit have a beer and chill dude. I don't know if you're trolling half the time or what but you seem really angry. You can put as many of those lol's out but I am just making conversation because people are talking about those things I've mentioned. You'd have to be really naive to think crosby is not a target because it comes with the territory when you're the #1 player in the league. I'm not saying players should take it easy on him either.... but it's not good for the league and the players if he was gone. Of course he plays in the tough spots and he's going to get bumped around, and yes he retaliates and acts like an idiot too. However, I don't think it's totally out of the question that they are sending a message to the whole league with what they are doing. I'm not saying that is true, but like I said earlier, what I really think is they are just resting him for the playoffs so he doesn't get injured beforehand. why risk it?

Kyle
03-14-2011, 12:06 PM
How did I seem angry towards you at all? I was amazed by your words. Nothing more or less. I honestly don't see the slightest bit of anger projected towards you at all.

:lol: So amazing how long reputations follow you on a message board of all places. I simply have trouble believing you'd have accused anyone else of being angry or trolling had they said what I said to you.

Since its apparently not obvious (somehow), the point is its absolutely ludicrious to insinuate anyone needs to treat Crosby differently for the sake of the league or to show appreciation for their salaries. Thats absolutely asinine. Whatever the NHL/Players association do to eliminate/maintain dirty hits and cheapshots, it should be universal and it should accomplish equal protection leaguewide. Crosby needs no specific inclusion.

MrScientist
03-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Glad to see The Kid back on the ice. That being said, it baffles me that folks call the Hedman hit dirty. It happens 20 times a game and is of no consequence to someone who isn't already concussed.

Hamsterkill
03-14-2011, 12:28 PM
For the record, I don't know many Pens fans complaining much about either of the hits on Crosby. Steckel probably could have done more to avoid Crosby, but the hit was not entirely his fault and thus not dirty. I saw nothing terribly wrong with the Hedman hit, either. I think most Pens fans are accepting of these facts, though we obviously don't like them.

Even my old roommate, the most unreasonable Pens fan I know, never said much after he saw the replay of the Steckel hit a few times.

phaneuf6
03-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Glad to see The Kid back on the ice. That being said, it baffles me that folks call the Hedman hit dirty. It happens 20 times a game and is of no consequence to someone who isn't already concussed.

It was just the contact at the back of his head I think that might classify it as dirty. IMO, it's just a result of Hedman's height, so it's not necessarily a dirty hit. He was simply finishing a check.

canuckthug
03-14-2011, 12:44 PM
I don't like cheap shots in this league but I do NOT think that players need to stop and rethink their approach towards Sidney Crosby specifically. He is not some helpless victom of a game for ogres. Hes had his ogre moments. And hes recieved his share too. Theres nothing unique about the physical treatment Crosby has gotten from others.

My disagreement is that Crosby should get some special treatment to help keep him in the game longer. Fuck that nonsense. Play your heart out against everybody. But I don't want to see anyone looking like they ease off of hits for the kid's sake.

See, i disagree with the above viewpoint. Im not starting something new. I've already said Gretz had McCsorley. Players should be held accountable for hitting Crosby or held accountable for trying to hit him if they choose to go down that path.. Warning, Warning..Alarms, Sirens and the fear of god should sound off in those "grinders heads"---> who are just doing 'their jobs'... Crosby should have special treatment (within and according to the Pittsburgh Pens hierarchy). Opposing teams should be well aware of this and players should have to think twice... Crosby is no slouch, he can handle himself, but it should not be open season on him. If Mike Richards hit Crosby like that, Im sure Crosby would have dealt with the matter personally but Steckel is some bum. Crosby should not have to defend himself against that clown. Just because he can endure more doesn't mean should have to. The Pittsburgh Penguin organization should be smart enough to know this.. Crosby is skilled like Gretzky, Yzerman and just as important to his team like those superstars but IMO he doesn't get the same protection.. thats nonsense!


Do you know how few players make it through a career without being on the recieving end a handful of times, if not much more?
Yzerman had Probert. Nobody touched Yzerman. As an observer and fan of the game...I thought it was unofficially written in the scoresheet as code of conduct, and well known amongst the players back in the day not to hit the Yzerman's of the league. Im not saying Yzerman was granted the green light and was impervious to all physical contact, thats is ludicrous and insulting to Stevie Y... But the Red Wings would hurt you bad, and it was well known. They had McCarty as well. When willy Mitchell hit Toews, the Canucks knew hatred and accountability came with the territory but the hit was still delivered. Thats hockey. Mike Peca(canuck) clobbered Selanne (jet) and Vancouver had to deal with the consequences & wrath of Kris King and Tie Domi.

The Penguins can fight. They have fought in the past but they traded Laraque and dont have a George Parros or somebody like that. Not to my knowledge anyway. I think Max Talbot throws down occasionally but nobody defends Crosby on the regular which is perplexing to me.


This comment would make sense if you replaced the word 'unintentional' with 'intentional'.

Intentional lack of care would be more dirty than clean, no doubt. How can a hit be 'more dirty than clean' if it was a result of unintentional/inadvertent contact? I guess maybe you could call it dirty if it was a reckless play on Steckel's part, but I don't think it was.

To me, 'unintentional lack of care' implies it was an accident, i.e. no malicious intent. How can a hit be considered dirty if it was an accident, unless it was a result of extremely reckless play?

More nitpicking here on my part.. Agreed, No malicious intent. Reckless maybe... but the "lack of care" part to me meant careless. Unintentional definitely means no-intent but combined with lack of care those 2 words together create a paradox. Ive heard color commentators say, "he hit him, accidentally-on-purpose." Same deal. Its the way the word was defined... to me it came across as more negative because i know what lack of care means.

phaneuf6
03-14-2011, 12:49 PM
As long as there is an instigator rule, nobody can do what you're suggesting.

Steckel didn't even hit him, it was an unfortunate collision. Some are suggesting the environment of the WC threw off Crosby's depth perception because he's usually very aware of the ice and those around him.

dw13
03-14-2011, 12:56 PM
It was just the contact at the back of his head I think that might classify it as dirty. IMO, it's just a result of Hedman's height, so it's not necessarily a dirty hit. He was simply finishing a check.

Agreed.

Kyle
03-14-2011, 01:48 PM
See, i disagree with the above viewpoint. Im not starting something new. I've already said Gretz had McCsorley. Players should be held accountable for hitting Crosby or held accountable for trying to hit him if they choose to go down that path.. Warning, Warning..Alarms, Sirens and the fear of god should sound off in those "grinders heads"---> who are just doing 'their jobs'... Crosby should have special treatment (within and according to the Pittsburgh Pens hierarchy). Opposing teams should be well aware of this and players should have to think twice... Crosby is no slouch, he can handle himself, but it should not be open season on him. If Mike Richards hit Crosby like that, Im sure Crosby would have dealt with the matter personally but Steckel is some bum. Crosby should not have to defend himself against that clown. Just because he can endure more doesn't mean should have to. The Pittsburgh Penguin organization should be smart enough to know this.. Crosby is skilled like Gretzky, Yzerman and just as important to his team like those superstars but IMO he doesn't get the same protection.. thats nonsense!



You didn't disagree with me at all. I said the league and the players association should extend no extra effort to protect Crosby specifically. You're saying the Penguins organization needs to pay somebody to scare people away from laying huge hits on him. You didn't even address my point, let alone disagree with it.

canuckthug
03-14-2011, 04:14 PM
You didn't disagree with me at all. I said the league and the players association should extend no extra effort to protect Crosby specifically. You're saying the Penguins organization needs to pay somebody to scare people away from laying huge hits on him. You didn't even address my point, let alone disagree with it.

how would the league intervene to protect Crosby that way? longer suspensions for offending players who hit Crosby? is that the extra effort of protection you are concerned about? this doesn't address the problem anyway... and i agree then, it would look real bad for the league to cater to one specific player (even if its Sid Crosby).


I'll go back to saying,

If Crosby wants to get less run-ins with major collisions, they need an enforcer.. gotta have somebody to hold a player in check for attempting to take out the best player. clean hit or not.

Hamsterkill
03-14-2011, 04:37 PM
how would the league intervene to protect Crosby that way? longer suspensions for offending players who hit Crosby? is that the extra effort of protection you are concerned about? this doesn't address the problem anyway... and i agree then, it would look real bad for the league to cater to one specific player (even if its Sid Crosby).


I'll go back to saying,

If Crosby wants to get less run-ins with major collisions, they need an enforcer.. gotta have somebody to hold a player in check for attempting to take out the best player. clean hit or not.
Pittsburgh has Engelland, Godard and Rupp on their payroll. They are not without enforcers. It just doesn't matter like it did in Gretzky's day.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
03-14-2011, 06:08 PM
Yeah pitt fights more than any team in the league I believe... so the enforcer suggestion... just not real practical, really. Pens have plenty of guys who will punish other teams for taking liberties with their stars. Also, I don't think protecting Crosby, specifically, should be the league concern, but protecting all players. Maybe go the route of the NFL with hefty player fines for head shots, etc ?

This was an interesting article on the concussion discussion --

Concussions: Which way from here?


http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=nc-concussions031211

two24four
03-14-2011, 10:26 PM
I still think the Pens are nuts if they let Crosby play again this season/playoffs, again I say just look at Savard last year when he came back for the playoffs, he later said he came back too soon.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
03-14-2011, 11:42 PM
I still think the Pens are nuts if they let Crosby play again this season/playoffs, again I say just look at Savard last year when he came back for the playoffs, he later said he came back too soon.

I agree.... :(