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alias
01-14-2011, 07:24 PM
That time of year again. Last year chicagohockey and I led the way getting 4 correct guesses. Last year's thread was really fun too.


Yeah that's a ballsy pick for sure. There is no way Sid wins the Rocket over some of the other guys in the league.....

I'm sure you're fine with how it really turned out eh Sponge? :p

So what are your predictions this year? This year's predictions seem easier. Here's mine....


Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Plekanec (more of a wish)
Norris - Byfuglien (it hurt typing that)
Vezina - Price
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Crawford (Dallas)

Raja
01-14-2011, 08:24 PM
I kinda want to make ballsy picks, but kinda want to get them right too haha. The hell with it though, I'll go for surprise picks even if they're unlikely

Art Ross - Ovechkin
Rocket Richard - Stamkos
Hart - Thomas
Lady Byng - Kaberle
Selke - M. Richards
Norris - I wanted to say Enstrom, but Yandle!
Vezina - Lundqvist
Calder - Stepan
Jack Adams - Boucher

I don't expect to get any right.

phaneuf6
01-14-2011, 08:54 PM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Datsyuk
Norris - Lidstrom
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Ramsay

two24four
01-14-2011, 09:07 PM
Art Ross- Crosby
Rocket- Stamkos
Hart- Crosby
Lady Byng- Kaberle
Selke- Dats
Norris- Lidstrom
Vezina- Thomas
Calder- Couture
Jack Admas- Crawford

boredguy
01-14-2011, 09:25 PM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Stamkos
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Letang
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Crawford
Jack Adams - Crawford

HT9
01-15-2011, 01:30 AM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - Who cares
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Letang
Vezina - Rinne
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Crawford

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
01-15-2011, 02:52 AM
That time of year again. Last year chicagohockey and I led the way getting 4 correct guesses. Last year's thread was really fun too.



I'm sure you're fine with how it really turned out eh Sponge? :p



Absolutely! That's a mighty fine tasting crow. :yesyes:

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
01-15-2011, 02:56 AM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - J. Staal
Norris - Big Buff
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Couture
Jack Adams - Crawford

boredguy
01-15-2011, 03:11 AM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - J. Staal
Norris - Big Buff
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Couture
Jack Adams - Crawford

Now there's a homer pick, can't see anyone winning an award while missing half the season.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
01-15-2011, 03:15 AM
Now there's a homer pick, can't see anyone winning an award while missing half the season.

Well yeah but I don't wanna throw all the names in here that everyone else has already picked. I had to add a little spice. It isn't like we're betting money here so let's chalk it up to wishful thinking ? :lol:

Not like it's some huge stretch though, the guy will get his eventually and despite missing the 1st half I bet his name is at least thrown into some conversations.

HT9
01-15-2011, 05:37 AM
Well yeah but I don't wanna throw all the names in here that everyone else has already picked. I had to add a little spice. It isn't like we're betting money here so let's chalk it up to wishful thinking ? :lol:

Not like it's some huge stretch though, the guy will get his eventually and despite missing the 1st half I bet his name is at least thrown into some conversations.

no, not at all, that is ridiculous.

Hamsterkill
01-15-2011, 11:40 AM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Letang
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Laviolette (Philly)

pjm
01-15-2011, 04:17 PM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Stamkos
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Lidstrom
Vezina - Rinne
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Ramsay (ATL)

Hockeyis#1
01-15-2011, 04:34 PM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Stamkos
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Byfuglien
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Ramsay (ATL)

habsfan1
01-15-2011, 04:53 PM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Datsyuk
Norris - Byfuglien
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Hall
Jack Adams - Boucher

Jake
01-15-2011, 06:52 PM
Art Ross- Crosby
Rocket- Crosby
Hart- Crosby
Lady Byng- St. Louis
Selke- Zetts
Norris- Lidstrom
Vezina- Thomas
Calder- Crawford
Jack Admas- Boucher

CayugaPosse
01-16-2011, 02:23 AM
Time to go off the board just because I like to although frankly alot of this is pretty plausible as much as none of us would like to admit it...

Art Ross - Daniel Sedin
Rocket - Steven Stamkos
Hart - Ryan Kesler
Lady Byng - Marty St.Louis
Selke - Ryan Kesler
Norris - Niklas Lidstrom
Vezina - Tim Thomas
Calder - Corey Crawford
Jack Adams - Alain Vigneault

Obviously that assumes Crosby's concussion situation holds him out for an extended time frame.

Worth noting, Ryan Kesler deffinitely deserves MVP consideration, although it's Crosby's if he makes it back sometime soon, what Kesler's done in Vancouver cannot be overstated.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
01-16-2011, 02:34 AM
Love the Crawford pick. Silly, he didn't even cross my mind while I was making up a list. Definitely should have. :yes:

alias
01-16-2011, 11:53 AM
I just can't see Thomas winning the Vezina. He's on pace for 55 games and it seems they are playing Rask more and more, so he may not even hit that. I don't think Thomas will get enough games in to win it. Then again, Thomas is the only guy in the last 15 years to win it with less than 65 games ( he played 54). He will have to finish the season with the best GAA and SV% by a huge margin (which admitedly, he currently is) to win it this year if he doesn't get in more than 55 games. If he doesn't hit 50 games there's no chance they give it to him.

If he can keep Anaheim in the playoffs Hiller could be a real dark horse here. Tied for the most wins, has about 100 more saves than the next best guy, a .926 sv% and 4 shutouts. If he can get his GAA down a bit from 2.49 into the 2.3's he could take it.

Hamsterkill
01-16-2011, 01:58 PM
If Thomas is still in the race for the most wins like he is right now while starting less than 50 games, there's no way he doesn't win the Vezina.

two24four
01-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Thomas picked up his 7th shutout on the season today.

alias
01-17-2011, 07:37 PM
Thomas picked up his 7th shutout on the season today.

figures :lol:

Jake
01-18-2011, 10:02 PM
For Calder I couldn't decided on Crawford or Bob, but when I figured Bob lost his starting job I went with Crawford... I may have buyers remorse on that decision though

alias
03-21-2011, 04:12 PM
That time of year again. Last year chicagohockey and I led the way getting 4 correct guesses. Last year's thread was really fun too.



I'm sure you're fine with how it really turned out eh Sponge? :p

So what are your predictions this year? This year's predictions seem easier. Here's mine....


Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Plekanec (more of a wish)
Norris - Byfuglien (it hurt typing that)
Vezina - Price
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Crawford (Dallas)

hmmm....looks like the only ones I might get right are St. Louis & Skinner. Maybe Price & Byfuglien too. Hard to believe 4 of the top 5 scoring d-men are Vis, Yandle, Enstrom & Buff. He'll probably hit 20 goals too so has a good chance of taking it home but if they take defense into account at all Vis has just as good of a chance too.

alias
03-21-2011, 04:15 PM
As for the Vezina, Thomas still is leading in GAA & sv%, but has fallen behind in wins. Tough call here. Rinne could end up taking it too, he is 2nd in GAA & sv% and plays on a worse team, but he's behind Thomas in wins too.

Raja
03-21-2011, 05:04 PM
Rocket Richard - Stamkos
Hart - Thomas
Lady Byng - Kaberle
Selke - M. Richards
Norris - I wanted to say Enstrom, but Yandle!
Jack Adams - Boucher

I don't expect to get any right.

All of these are still possible, but I'd only bet money on 1 :\

boredguy
03-21-2011, 05:45 PM
Crosby's injury screwed up most people's picks. He stays healthy there's no doubt in my mind he takes Art Ross and Hart.

I have no idea who gets the Vezina, Thomas/Rinne are the front runners but you can make a good case for Price, Lundqvist and Luongo as well. Fleury's the main reason the Pens haven't crashed after Crosby and Malkin went out so could get some consideration too. Hiller's also been spectacular but his GAA probably keeps him from being considered.

For Norris i'm betting it'll be between Yandle, Lidstrom and Weber. Visnovsky, Enstrom and Buff just aren't strong enough defensively, and points alone aren't enough or Green would have a couple of trophies already. Letang's numbers have slid way down since the Crosby/Malkin injuries, which is understandable but has pretty much put him out of the running.

Art Ross is pretty much D. Sedin's at this point, and Rocket to Stamkos.

Hart...is the same as Vezina i think, plenty of good choices. I'm sure Stamkos and D. Sedin get a fair share of votes. Toews late run will get some consideration if the Hawks are in the playoffs. Ovechkin has the Caps playing great hockey at the right time but his poor numbers (for him) at the start of the season will seriously hurt his chances. Iginla might get looked over but he really put the Flames on his back and carried them to playoff contention. Then there's Thomas/Rinne, but goalies really need to have insane years and i don't think either was quite at that level.

Jack Adams is a no brainer to Lemaire if the Devils get into the playoffs, otherwise Boucher is the most likely i think.

Calder is basically between Skinner, Couture and Crawford. I'd say Crawford is in the lead right now.

Lady Byng - meh, who cares

Selke - Kesler still seems most likely to me, Toews probably will get some consideration. I think the injury probably knocks Datsyuk out of it.

Hamsterkill
03-21-2011, 05:45 PM
Art Ross - Crosby
Rocket Richard - Crosby
Hart - Crosby
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Letang
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Skinner
Jack Adams - Laviolette (Philly)
Hm. My Art Ross, Richard, and Hart are obviously going to be wrong. My Adams pick is still technically possible, but I certainly wouldn't bet on it. The rest look fine, though.

Hamsterkill
03-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Calder is basically between Skinner, Couture and Crawford. I'd say Crawford is in the lead right now.
I really don't think Crawford has done well enough to merit ROTY. And the forwards field is extremely crowded after Skinner (Couture, Ennis, Grabner all with about the same point totals).

Skinner is the easy favorite to me, still. Grabner with an outside chance just because of his +15 with the Isles.

boredguy
03-21-2011, 06:01 PM
Forgot about Grabner, he's definitely in it too. Ennis is up there in points but not close in goals so probably won't be much of a threat for Calder.

NeelyDan
03-22-2011, 11:33 AM
Art Ross - Daniel Sedin
Rocket - Steven Stamkos
Hart - Jonathan Toews
Lady Byng - Martin St.Louis
Selke - Ryan Kesler
Norris - Niklas Lidstrom
Vezina - Tim Thomas
Calder - Jeff Skinner
Jack Adams - Should really be Jacques Lemaire

two24four
03-24-2011, 12:52 AM
I'm with Kypreos that Perry has to at least be in the talks for MVP, he's kicking some ass for ANA. Scored his 40th goal of the season tonight. If not for Perry I don't think the Ducks are in the spot they are, if they make the playoffs I think he get's some votes, if he does not win it.

He's 5th in league scoring with 40 goals, 40 assists for 80 Pts, he has 9 GWG 2nd only to OV, oh and he's done this while racking up 100 PIM's.

canuckthug
03-24-2011, 01:17 AM
I'm with Kypreos that Perry has to at least be in the talks for MVP, he's kicking some ass for ANA. Scored his 40th goal of the season tonight. If not for Perry I don't think the Ducks are in the spot they are, if they make the playoffs I think he get's some votes, if he does not win it.

He's 5th in league scoring with 40 goals, 40 assists for 80 Pts, he has 9 GWG 2nd only to OV, oh and he's done this while racking up 100 PIM's.

D. Sedin has 10 GWG.

Kyle
03-24-2011, 01:19 AM
if he does not win it.



Agreed with you up til here. There is 0% chance he wins it, Lets not take the discussion any farther. He deserves it. Hes earned it. He might steal a few votes. But he won't win it, we all know that.

alias
03-24-2011, 10:15 AM
I'm with Kypreos that Perry has to at least be in the talks for MVP, he's kicking some ass for ANA. Scored his 40th goal of the season tonight. If not for Perry I don't think the Ducks are in the spot they are, if they make the playoffs I think he get's some votes, if he does not win it.

He's 5th in league scoring with 40 goals, 40 assists for 80 Pts, he has 9 GWG 2nd only to OV, oh and he's done this while racking up 100 PIM's.

I don't think 100 PIM's helps his case. If anything it hurts it. An MVP doesn't put his team shorthanded that many times.

chgorman
03-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Yeah, if there was an award for fantasy hockey MVP, Perry would be right at the top of my list due to the pims he brings (although those have been few and far between recently), but I don't see him winning the Hart. Should he be in the discussion? Yeah, I think so, but I don't see him winning it.

phaneuf6
03-24-2011, 01:30 PM
He really has put that team on his back though... most people had the Ducks bottom feeding this year. Not saying he was alone in it, but he's a big part of it.

Raja
03-24-2011, 04:58 PM
Perry shouldn't be mentioned at all. When you have 3 ppg+ forwards and another hitting 70+, in addition to a likely Norris candidate and a goalie who may have been up for the Vezina/Hart himself if he was healthy, you can't award a player as most valuable on that team.

Agreed 100% he'd be up there for fantasy MVP, but without him Anaheim would still be decent in terms of marquee players. It's stupid that Hart basically goes to the highest scorer anyways nowadays, but it is what it is.

phaneuf6
03-24-2011, 05:18 PM
Perry shouldn't be mentioned at all. When you have 3 ppg+ forwards and another hitting 70+, in addition to a likely Norris candidate and a goalie who may have been up for the Vezina/Hart himself if he was healthy, you can't award a player as most valuable on that team.

Agreed 100% he'd be up there for fantasy MVP, but without him Anaheim would still be decent in terms of marquee players. It's stupid that Hart basically goes to the highest scorer anyways nowadays, but it is what it is.


By that rationale you knock a lot of guys out of the running including anyone on Tampa, Vancouver, Detroit, Chicago, etc.. you see where I'm going with this.

dw13
03-24-2011, 05:22 PM
Just give it to Stammer and shut up.

two24four
03-24-2011, 05:47 PM
By that rationale you knock a lot of guys out of the running including anyone on Tampa, Vancouver, Detroit, Chicago, etc.. you see where I'm going with this.

Agreed.

I think when it's all said and done D. Sedin will end up winning it, but I think my vote would be for Perry, as of right now anyways.

Hamsterkill
03-24-2011, 06:02 PM
By that rationale you knock a lot of guys out of the running including anyone on Tampa, Vancouver, Detroit, Chicago, etc.. you see where I'm going with this.
Normally I would preclude the guys on those teams for the Hart unless one had a player that truly stood out. But then, there's always been debate about whether the Hart should go to the best player in the league or to the player most valuable to his team. I'm generally on the latter side of the debate since there's already the Lester Pearson for the former category.

two24four
03-24-2011, 07:58 PM
Pierre LeBrun twitter.


Corey Perry with No. 41 tonight. Late charge at the Hart.

Raja
03-25-2011, 11:03 AM
By that rationale you knock a lot of guys out of the running including anyone on Tampa, Vancouver, Detroit, Chicago, etc.. you see where I'm going with this.

and I agree with that. When there's 3~ players on a team that could win a trophy of their own it's hard to pin point a most valuable in the league. It should almost always go to a goalie but hardly ever does.

canuckthug
03-25-2011, 03:41 PM
and I agree with that. When there's 3~ players on a team that could win a trophy of their own it's hard to pin point a most valuable in the league. It should almost always go to a goalie but hardly ever does.

I don't share the same sentiment for a few reasons. If a goalie clearly deserves the MVP and does not get recognized as the years best player, then i would ask questions but i don;t recall goalies getting screwed for the Hart. Goalies have the Vezina, D-Men have the Norris and any forward/defensemen/goalie can take the Hart. The vast majority of the league consists with Forwards so mathematically they have the better shot. When Bobby Orr was the best player, he won the Hart.

Miller, last season should have been a candidate, so maybe he was robbed but Ovy, Crosby, H.Sedin were worthy. But your right, it doesn't happen much in the regular season. This year, Thomas and Price are possible league MVP candidates (definite MVP's of their team). Past winners include
JoseTheodore and Hasek .. ,

In the playoffs its a different story. Goalies can take conn smythe and are often considered heavy favorites (rightly so), off the top of my head:
Bill Ranford (1990), Cam Ward, J.S. Giguere (non-cup year), Roy
Vernon
(5 winners in the last 20 years.. roughly 25% of the time -->)

Hamsterkill
03-25-2011, 03:48 PM
In the playoffs its a different story. Goalies can take conn smythe and are often considered heavy favorites (rightly so), off the top of my head:
Bill Ranford (1990), Cam Ward, J.S. Giguere (non-cup year), Roy
Vernon
(5 winners in the last 20 years.. roughly 25% of the time -->)
Honestly, this is one reason why the Hart trophy selections bug me. The Conn Smythe is supposed to be given for the same reasons as the Hart just for the playoffs instead of regular season, yet while the Smythe is routinely won by all positions (forward, defenseman, goalie), the Hart is generally ruled solely by forwards.

Kyle
03-25-2011, 03:50 PM
Honestly, this is why the Hart trophy selections bug me. The Conn Smythe is supposed to be given for the same reasons as the Hart just for the playoffs instead of regular season, yet while the Smythe is routinely won by all positions (forward, defenseman, goalie), the Hart is generally ruled solely by forwards.

Because remarkable defensemen/goalie streaks tend to not drag over a full season like a forward's does.

Look at the statistical dominance of the goalies who've won conn smythes. It just doesn't happen over 82 games.

canuckthug
03-25-2011, 03:55 PM
Honestly, this is one reason why the Hart trophy selections bug me. The Conn Smythe is supposed to be given for the same reasons as the Hart just for the playoffs instead of regular season, yet while the Smythe is routinely won by all positions (forward, defenseman, goalie), the Hart is generally ruled solely by forwards.

Bigger saves are amplify'd in the playoffs. Goalies play OT period after OT period, rack up the saves and become the story of the game.. in the regular season, its just different.

iceHOLE
03-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Art Ross - D.Sedin
Rocket Richard - Stamkos
Hart - Thomas
Lady Byng - St. Louis
Selke - Kesler
Norris - Lidstrom
Vezina - Thomas
Calder - Grabner
Jack Adams - Guy Boucher
Ted Lindsay- Stamkos

I think the most difficult choices to be made will be with the Hart and Jack Adams with alot of players and coaches who fit that bill this year I put Thomas because of his stellar play early in the season and consistency throughout...

Raja
03-25-2011, 06:25 PM
I don't share the same sentiment for a few reasons. If a goalie clearly deserves the MVP and does not get recognized as the years best player, then i would ask questions but i don;t recall goalies getting screwed for the Hart. Goalies have the Vezina, D-Men have the Norris and any forward/defensemen/goalie can take the Hart. The vast majority of the league consists with Forwards so mathematically they have the better shot. When Bobby Orr was the best player, he won the Hart.

Goalies have Vezina, Dmen have Norris, forwards have Lindsay, any should have Hart. Of course they have a better shot but because there are so many of them, but more often than not they're more easily replaceable because of that, which makes them less valuable doesn't it? In the past few years it's become fairly obvious you don't need good goalies to succeed, but when your team succeeds because of dominance at a certain position (Miller last year), it should at least be considered.

I'm not implying I think no forward should ever win, because it's obvious Crosby was on a clear path to winning while he was destroying everyone. Even if Malkin was playing ppg plus I still might think that, but because he was doing so poorly and Crosby was seriously carrying that team is the major reason he deserved it. Defenseman get screwed because it's hard to see them physically dominate games like you can see forwards and goalies do, but it's hard enough to find people admiring defensive plays as it is. (Top 10 defensive plays of the week anyone? Not enough appresh)

Smythe is a total wild card, last year I thought Keith should have won it but can't really remember if I agreed in previous years. Because of so many eliminations though, that becomes easier to choose since it's narrowed down to so few players.

canuckthug
03-26-2011, 10:53 AM
Goalies have Vezina, Dmen have Norris, forwards have Lindsay, any should have Hart. Of course they have a better shot but because there are so many of them, but more often than not they're more easily replaceable because of that, which makes them less valuable doesn't it? In the past few years it's become fairly obvious you don't need good goalies to succeed, but when your team succeeds because of dominance at a certain position (Miller last year), it should at least be considered.

I'm not implying I think no forward should ever win, because it's obvious Crosby was on a clear path to winning while he was destroying everyone. Even if Malkin was playing ppg plus I still might think that, but because he was doing so poorly and Crosby was seriously carrying that team is the major reason he deserved it. Defenseman get screwed because it's hard to see them physically dominate games like you can see forwards and goalies do, but it's hard enough to find people admiring defensive plays as it is. (Top 10 defensive plays of the week anyone? Not enough appresh)

Smythe is a total wild card, last year I thought Keith should have won it but can't really remember if I agreed in previous years. Because of so many eliminations though, that becomes easier to choose since it's narrowed down to so few players.

I hear what your saying.. and
I agree with Miller not getting a nominee but where do you draw the line. Who gets the axe? Ovechkin wasnt going to win in the end because of his suspensions but how could the voters/members of the associated press ignore the season he had. Ovechkin was leading the whole way until the end and Crosby was Crosby but Henrik had an amazing year.

I also agree with Crosby winning pretty much every award if healthy this season. I dont think anyone is gonna dispute that.

Conn Smythe can be questionable.. but IMO its usually right. Out of curiosity, which years has it gone wrong? I wouldn't call it a "total wildcard". If memory serves, i thought Khabibulin maybe could have won the trophy over Richards. (but in the end, Richards contribution, mainly his crazy GWG totals were hard to overlook). I know the Russians were pissed about it.

edit: you said you couldn't remember if you agreed with the past years.. im the same way. I have my opinion/vote penciled in at the time and when Bettman calls the winner, i see what happens. Last year i did have Toews FWIW.


Just give it to Stammer and shut up.
Nobody has dignified a response here for a few reasons but i'll respond because Stamkos is cold. IMO, Stamkos is not more valuable to his team than Marty St. Louis... (and im not saying this because Marty overtook him in the race yesterday). But again, Stamkos is cold.. He has what? 5 goals since the all-star break. His pace has dwindled in the 2nd half bigtime. He was on pace for 70 and now struggling to reach 50. The lightning have won something like 3 games in the last 12. At this moment, Stamkos is not in the runnings. Stamkos needs to get 50 or start piling assists like mad, and the Lightning have to start winning games down the stretch. Easier said then done but this is the Only way he gets back in the MVP talks.

Raja
03-26-2011, 05:53 PM
I hear what your saying.. and
I agree with Miller not getting a nominee but where do you draw the line. Who gets the axe? Ovechkin wasnt going to win in the end because of his suspensions but how could the voters/members of the associated press ignore the season he had. Ovechkin was leading the whole way until the end and Crosby was Crosby but Henrik had an amazing year.

I also agree with Crosby winning pretty much every award if healthy this season. I dont think anyone is gonna dispute that.

Conn Smythe can be questionable.. but IMO its usually right. Out of curiosity, which years has it gone wrong? I wouldn't call it a "total wildcard". If memory serves, i thought Khabibulin maybe could have won the trophy over Richards. (but in the end, Richards contribution, mainly his crazy GWG totals were hard to overlook). I know the Russians were pissed about it.

edit: you said you couldn't remember if you agreed with the past years.. im the same way. I have my opinion/vote penciled in at the time and when Bettman calls the winner, i see what happens. Last year i did have Toews FWIW.

I dunno, I'm not saying any of those players were necessarily undeserving, because they all did play amazingly, but they weren't relied on in the same fashion that a guy like Miller was. I mean, theoretically the art ross/vezina winners should generally at least be top 3 you'd think, being the best at their positions and all.

I just said wild card for Conn Smythe because I do think any position can win it, not because they just pick a random player. I'll be sure to post here who I think'll win the Smythe before to see if I get it wrong again.

boredguy
03-26-2011, 06:37 PM
One thing to remember is that it isn't actually done by nominations. The voting is conducted at the end of the regular season by members of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, and each individual voter ranks their top five candidates on a 10-7-5-3-1 points system. They show 3 finalists for the awards show, but that's just the top 3 vote getters, no new voting is done.

So if someone votes for a goalie they're not eliminating a Crosby or Ovechkin from the award. Miller and Bryzgalov were 4th and 5th in votes and both got 13 votes as the top pick of a writer.

two24four
03-26-2011, 09:58 PM
Perry with two more goals tonight, he now leads the NHL with 44 goals.

I'm telling you, he's making a strong, strong case for MVP.

canuckthug
03-26-2011, 10:11 PM
Agreed.

I think when it's all said and done D. Sedin will end up winning it, but I think my vote would be for Perry, as of right now anyways.

Huge win for the Ducks. Corey Perry scores the only 2 goals, one late in the 3rd. The other day on Yahoo.sports they had a front page story about Perry and his late MVP surge. I agree, I think he is making a case for sure. Ryan, Getz and Perry is the most dangerous line in the league IMO. I would like to say Sedin Sedin Burrows but they can't match the physicality of the Ducks #1. Ducks sit in 7th and i would not like it if they matched up with Vancouver in round 1.

canuckthug
03-26-2011, 10:14 PM
One thing to remember is that it isn't actually done by nominations. The voting is conducted at the end of the regular season by members of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, and each individual voter ranks their top five candidates on a 10-7-5-3-1 points system. They show 3 finalists for the awards show, but that's just the top 3 vote getters, no new voting is done.

So if someone votes for a goalie they're not eliminating a Crosby or Ovechkin from the award. Miller and Bryzgalov were 4th and 5th in votes and both got 13 votes as the top pick of a writer.

Good to know.. thanks for clarifying that.

mrtybrodur30
03-26-2011, 10:29 PM
Couture with another 2 goals tonight and an assist. This guy is unreal, I really think the Calder is his. He plays like he has been in the league for years and is very vital to the Sharks. Ive watched a decent amount of Grabner and Crawford, havent watched as much of Skinner. But Couture is just a beast out there and is much more polished than Grabner or Skinner(tough to compare Crawford, hes been great though also).

I know Grabner's +/- is crazy especially on the Islanders but Couture is currently at +19 on a team where alot of guys are at a minus . 30 G, 23 A, +19. Plus the 8 game winners he has this year. Kid has been clutch all year.

alias
03-26-2011, 10:43 PM
Couture with another 2 goals tonight and an assist. This guy is unreal, I really think the Calder is his. He plays like he has been in the league for years and is very vital to the Sharks. Ive watched a decent amount of Grabner and Crawford, havent watched as much of Skinner. But Couture is just a beast out there and is much more polished than Grabner or Skinner(tough to compare Crawford, hes been great though also).

I know Grabner's +/- is crazy especially on the Islanders but Couture is currently at +19 on a team where alot of guys are at a minus . 30 G, 23 A, +19. Plus the 8 game winners he has this year. Kid has been clutch all year.

Couture has mostly played with Clowe & Heatley. Skinner's mostly played with Ruutu & Larose. He's done more with less, and he's 3 years younger than Couture. He's been more impressive IMO.

mrtybrodur30
03-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Doesnt matter who Couture plays with, hes been playing with Pavelski and Mitchell for awhile and they are all on fire even Mitchell has been producing. I still like Grabner over Skinner. Skinner has been good but not as impressive as Couture or Grabner imo, no matter what the age or linemates are. it's really too bad Hall got hurt would have been interesting to see what he would have done.

two24four
03-27-2011, 12:53 AM
Skinner is the youngest player in the NHL this season, and right out of Jr, he will get alot of votes because of that, he has not looked out of place in the NHL at all.

Hamsterkill
03-28-2011, 08:22 AM
I don't see Couture taking it over Grabner at this point. With comparable points totals, Grabner I believe has more goals. Grabner has a more impressive plus/minus (not saying Couture's isn't impressive -- but why the the heck are most of the Sharks minus? SJ is without doubt the better team of the two). Grabner also has far inferior linemates in Frans Nielsen and... I don't even know, Okposo, maybe?

Skinner's still got the inside track, though, with more points and less age.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
03-28-2011, 06:20 PM
I would love to see Couture win it, he has been everything we had hoped and more but I gotta give it to Skinner as well.

Kyle
03-28-2011, 06:26 PM
SJ is probably struggling for 8th seed without Couture. Hes been huge.

phaneuf6
03-28-2011, 07:39 PM
SJ is probably struggling for 8th seed without Niemi. Hes been huge.

fyp.

dw13
03-30-2011, 08:43 PM
Give it to Jeff Skinner.

bearcats
03-30-2011, 08:54 PM
skinner has likely locked it up with his performance tonight

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
04-06-2011, 03:32 PM
What about MAF for the Vezina or MVP ? Not likely but it deserves some consideration. After his shitty fucking start good god this kid has saved the Pens bacon this season. No Crosby, No Geno and the Pens still have a shot to wrap up the Atlantic division. Flower has also posted some of the best numbers in his NHL career. Very happy with his performance this season. He has really matured into a solid franchise goaltender.

Kyle
04-06-2011, 03:48 PM
What about MAF for the Vezina or MVP ? Not likely but it deserves some consideration. After his shitty fucking start good god this kid has saved the Pens bacon this season. No Crosby, No Geno and the Pens still have a shot to wrap up the Atlantic division. Flower has also posted some of the best numbers in his NHL career. Very happy with his performance this season. He has really matured into a solid franchise goaltender.

Just a decent Sv % and GAA. 3 SO. 10 more losses than Thomas, same wins.

Fleury has had a remarkable season and has been the Penguin's MVP without a doubt. But he gets no consideration for the hart or the vezina. Not even close. As a Pens fan you're obviously just crediting his incrediby large role hes played in your success. But to the NHL they can't just look past those numbers. Hes hardly a top 20 goalie by the numbers.

moans
04-06-2011, 03:53 PM
Just a decent Sv % and GAA. 3 SO. 10 more losses than Thomas, same wins.

Fleury has had a remarkable season and has been the Penguin's MVP without a doubt. But he gets no consideration for the hart or the vezina. Not even close.

I'll agree with that. If the pens are able to snatch the division away from Philly, I see Bylsma winning the Jack Adams

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
04-06-2011, 04:06 PM
Good point Kyle. I can't argue any of that. I also agree about Bylsma potentially winning the Jack Adams. IMO, he deserves it. He has been nothing short of spectacular since he got here and the way he has kept this team moving along and focused all year has been pretty impressive.

Kyle
04-06-2011, 05:21 PM
Maybe someday they'll reflect the criterias to look past strictly numbers for the most part. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

two24four
04-06-2011, 10:37 PM
Perry with 3 goals and 1 assist so far tonight.

That is 50 goals and 97 Pts, only 3 Pts back of D. Sedin now.

Just saying :D

His 1st goal tonight was a highlight real goal.

MVP !!!!

Hamsterkill
04-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Okay, I'm finally willing to go there. Perry's reaching of the 50-goal plateau tonight and pulling to within 4 points of Sedin's total makes it believeable that he could now win the Hart.

two24four
04-06-2011, 10:41 PM
Okay, I'm finally willing to go there. Perry's reaching of the 50-goal plateau tonight and pulling to within 4 points of Sedin's total makes it believeable that he could now win the Hart.

He's now only 3 points back of D. Sedin.

Hamsterkill
04-06-2011, 10:42 PM
He's now only 3 points back of D. Sedin.
Yeah, that was a typo on my part.

szuturon
04-06-2011, 10:47 PM
Games not over :P Maybe he'll be even close even more ground on D.Sedin before the end

canuckthug
04-07-2011, 02:14 AM
Fuck You Perry!
(but congrats on the 50.. at least somebody hit the mark)

Personally, it doesn't bother me who wins the Hart, but if Perry Steals the Art Ross in the last 2 games ----> it will be a dark day/tough pill to swallow for Canuck fans.

Kyle
04-07-2011, 02:31 AM
Perry is MVP now. He wasn't even close when people started the talks here. Since then hes seemed to score 2 goals every game. Its changed a lot. Hes obviously the MVP now.

Hamsterkill
04-07-2011, 08:57 AM
It's still not a foregone conclusion. Especially if the Ducks miss the playoffs. I'd give him even odds against Sedin now, though, assuming the Ducks make the playoffs.

two24four
04-07-2011, 09:29 AM
I agree that if they don't make the playoffs he should not win, but if they do make it, which it's looking like they will, it's all his.

The pace he has been on the last little while is unreal.

Kyle
04-07-2011, 01:34 PM
19 goals, 29 points in his last 14 games. Quite a tear to end the season.

wendel_
04-07-2011, 05:57 PM
Maybe someday they'll reflect the criterias to look past strictly numbers for the most part. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Agreed. Personally, I think by the definition of the term MVP, Iginla should win it. He plays with Tanguay and Jokinen instead of Getzlaf and Ryan, or H Sedin. His second line has Rene Borque instead of Selanne or Kesler (who has almost 40 goals himself). Kipper's not having a great year, unlike Luongo who is in Vezina discussions (discussions for second place at least, haha). If you take Iggy away from Calgary, they're fighting for a lottery pick instead of a playoff spot.

I'd vote for Price ahead of Perry and Sedin too, as the Habs would suck ass if it weren't for Price.

But, based on the way the league votes, I'd bet Perry gets it as long as the Ducks make the playoffs

EDIT: I'm not trying to take away from Perry or Sedin, as they are both having amazing seasons and deserve tons of praise. Just commenting on the award only

HT9
04-08-2011, 04:25 AM
Kesler with a hatty tonight, Selke should be his.

alias
04-08-2011, 05:57 PM
Kesler with a hatty tonight, Selke should be his.

I hate how they award the Selke now. It's supposed to be for best defensive forward.


"The Frank J. Selke Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League (http://forums.hockeyinformer.com/wiki/National_Hockey_League) forward (http://forums.hockeyinformer.com/wiki/Forward_(ice_hockey)) who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game. "

What does scoring a hatty have to do with that? Now it's awarded to the best defensive forward with at least 70 points :rolleyes: Not saying Kesler doesn't deserve it because he does based on his defensive game, but they put too much emphasis on scoring when it's purely a defensive trophy.

Did anyone notice David Backes is a +30? I don't see many Blues games but perhaps he deserves some consideration too seeing as the next best Blue is a +17. Kesler doesn't even have the best +/- on the Canucks, not even top 5. But Backes won't get consideration since he only has 61 points :nono: Mikko Koivu would be a good candidate too, but the rest of the Wild are so terrible his numbers aren't where they deserve to be.

Hockeyis#1
04-08-2011, 06:17 PM
Surprised no one has been more vocal of Crawford for Calder. He's 6th in the NHL with 2.27 GAA, has booked 2 less wins than TT, and the big push Chicago made in Feb was on the shoulders of Toews and Crawford.

Skinner has been rather ordinary since the ASG as well.

habsfan1
04-08-2011, 06:59 PM
For the Calder, looking at Grabner's stats the thing that sticks out to me is his +/-. The islanders have a -31 goal differential and he is a +14, that's pretty amazing. And not only is he leading rookies in goals, he's leading them in short-handed points.

phaneuf6
04-08-2011, 10:14 PM
Skinner has been rather ordinary since the ASG as well.

...wait, what?

canuckthug
04-10-2011, 12:54 AM
Perry is MVP now. He wasn't even close when people started the talks here. Since then hes seemed to score 2 goals every game. Its changed a lot. Hes obviously the MVP now.

I don't think its clear cut. It could go anyway and IMO its close and it should be. I've read a few articles (one by puckdaddy) and listened to radio shows and people in the media are still saying Sedin. Perry was solid no questions but the NHL media* (who do the voting) are not handing Perry the trophy as clearly as you suggest. I think the final 3 will be Thomas, Perry, Sedin. (maybe St. Louis and Price could get recognition as well).


edit: *NHL media = members of the Professional Hockey Writers Association

Hockeyis#1
04-11-2011, 12:31 PM
...wait, what?
From the ASG to March 18, Skinner put up 10 pts in 20 games despite getting increased ice time. While he finished the season strong, in Feb and the first half of March, the Canes basically sunk their playoff chances (went 7-14 in that span) as the majority of the team seemed to suffer from ASG hangover.

Raja
04-11-2011, 12:39 PM
Howard couldn't win it with better numbers than Crawford this year, he won't win it either, especially with a superior rookie class. All rookies have had scoring droughts just like that, it's still hard to call a 42 point pace for a rookie a slump.

chgorman
04-11-2011, 03:06 PM
From the ASG to March 18, Skinner put up 10 pts in 20 games despite getting increased ice time. While he finished the season strong, in Feb and the first half of March, the Canes basically sunk their playoff chances (went 7-14 in that span) as the majority of the team seemed to suffer from ASG hangover.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. First you seem to imply that it was Skinner's fault that they missed the playoffs due to his small slump (if you could even call it that), then you seem blame it on the rest of the team... what's your point? Despite a small slump (you have to expect that from most 18 yr old rookies not named Crosby), he was money pretty much all season regardless of any ASG hangover and the team missing the playoffs.

Would you be saying the same thing about Crawford if CHI had've missed the playoffs (which they only made with help from Minny on the final day of the season) after Crawford struggled a bit to start January and had a pretty mediocre start to March?

By the way, Crawford is a 26 yr old 'rookie', i.e he has EIGHT YEARS of experience on Skinner. That should be taken into consideration as well.

Hockeyis#1
04-11-2011, 10:21 PM
I don't get what you're trying to say here. First you seem to imply that it was Skinner's fault that they missed the playoffs due to his small slump (if you could even call it that), then you seem blame it on the rest of the team... what's your point? Despite a small slump (you have to expect that from most 18 yr old rookies not named Crosby), he was money pretty much all season regardless of any ASG hangover and the team missing the playoffs.

Would you be saying the same thing about Crawford if CHI had've missed the playoffs (which they only made with help from Minny on the final day of the season) after Crawford struggled a bit to start January and had a pretty mediocre start to March?

By the way, Crawford is a 26 yr old 'rookie', i.e he has EIGHT YEARS of experience on Skinner. That should be taken into consideration as well.
My point is that Skinner trailed off when his team needed him.

I also don't think he should be considered a more favorable candidate because he's "rookier" than Crawford. The award is best rookie, they both qualify.

With Turco in net, the Hawks don't make the playoffs, no question. The Canes didn't make it with Skinner. I can't fathom they do better w/o him.

boredguy
04-11-2011, 11:53 PM
By the way, Crawford is a 26 yr old 'rookie', i.e he has EIGHT YEARS of experience on Skinner. That should be taken into consideration as well.

It really shouldn't, award is for rookie with the best season, not best player who is the youngest. While i do consider it more impressive it really has no bearing on who had the better season.

Neither should if the team made the playoffs or not, you're looking at how a player performed, not the team.

chgorman
04-12-2011, 10:00 AM
Fair enough. I just feel that what Skinner has done as an 18 yr old straight out of Junior with only two yrs experience in Junior, zero AHL seasoning/experience and a lesser team around him (IMO) is much more impressive than what Crawford has done playing behind the reigning Stanley Cup champs with a full 4 yr Junior career and 5 yrs in the AHL under his belt. That's all. If you guys don't care about that stuff then fair enough, but to me, it makes what Skinner has accomplished in his rookie season much more impressive.

Hamsterkill
04-12-2011, 11:26 AM
I imagine the voters are liable to take age of rookie into account as a factor as well. Just because you age makes you eligible, doesn't mean it's not a factor in the voting.

two24four
04-12-2011, 11:27 AM
Fair enough. I just feel that what Skinner has done as an 18 yr old straight out of Junior with only two yrs experience in Junior, zero AHL seasoning/experience and a lesser team around him (IMO) is much more impressive than what Crawford has done playing behind the reigning Stanley Cup champs with a full 4 yr Junior career and 5 yrs in the AHL under his belt. That's all. If you guys don't care about that stuff then fair enough, but to me, it makes what Skinner has accomplished in his rookie season much more impressive.

Agreed, this is a kid who just three years ago was 15 years old playing midget hockey, to this season playing in the NHL AS game.

phaneuf6
04-12-2011, 12:08 PM
My point is that Skinner trailed off when his team needed him.

I also don't think he should be considered a more favorable candidate because he's "rookier" than Crawford. The award is best rookie, they both qualify.

With Turco in net, the Hawks don't make the playoffs, no question. The Canes didn't make it with Skinner. I can't fathom they do better w/o him.

Should a team really be relying on the production of an 18 year old to get them into the playoffs? You're holding him to an incredibly high standard that nobody outside of Crosby and Ovechkin has been able to meet in the last 8 years.

Kyle
04-12-2011, 02:16 PM
Agreed. And the "slump" is rather laughable. 10 points in 20 games is not a slump for a rookie. Just reaching a bit too hard IMO.

Hockeyis#1
04-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Should a team really be relying on the production of an 18 year old to get them into the playoffs?
The Hurricanes sure did


You're holding him to an incredibly high standard that nobody outside of Crosby and Ovechkin has been able to meet in the last 8 years.
What standard? Do I think that the Canes should have needed his production that badly? No, I don't. I don't think it's fair to put that much pressure on basically a high school senior and expect greatness out of him. Had he risen to the occasion, this conversation never happens. He runs away with the Calder no questions asked.

I said he looked ordinary during that stretch, because HE DID.
Crawford did the opposite during that late season stretch, and his team made the playoffs because of his and Toews efforts. That sways me to Crawford's side in this close contest.

Hamsterkill
04-12-2011, 04:50 PM
The Calder is for the "best" rookie. Not the "most valuable". Crawford had a good year. Better than I expected out of him, that's for sure. Not good enough to beat out Skinner, Couture, and Grabner in my opinion, though. I'd give him the nod over Ennis, though, probably.

phaneuf6
04-12-2011, 05:09 PM
Not worth replying since this is only going to go in circles. I can respect you picking Crawford but your argument against Skinner is retarded.

And if you want to get technical about it, it was Minnesota's effort that got the Hawks into the playoffs, not Crawford or Toews.

Hockeyis#1
04-12-2011, 05:13 PM
The Calder is for the "best" rookie. Not the "most valuable".
That's a very good point. :chin:

Kyle
04-12-2011, 05:31 PM
That's a very good point. :chin:

It wasn't a good point the first few times someone mentioned it in this argument? Thats all people have been trying to tell you.:rolleyes:

Hockeyis#1
04-12-2011, 11:02 PM
It wasn't a good point the first few times someone mentioned it in this argument? Thats all people have been trying to tell you.:rolleyes:
Where has someone else noted the difference between most valuable best? Everyone argued that Skinner won the award based on stats and platitudes about him being rookier.

Kyle
04-13-2011, 12:39 AM
It really shouldn't, award is for rookie with the best season, not best player who is the youngest. While i do consider it more impressive it really has no bearing on who had the better season.

Neither should if the team made the playoffs or not, you're looking at how a player performed, not the team.

This post makes the exact same point. But I thought more people had mentioned it. Not important anyway.

Hamsterkill
04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
Skinner, Couture, and Grabner are your Calder finalists.

two24four
04-22-2011, 11:06 AM
Thomas, Rinne, Luongo are the Vezina finalists.

bearcats
04-25-2011, 11:16 AM
chara, lidstrom and weber are the norris finalists.....


I really think Visnovski deserved a nomination....

Hockeyis#1
04-25-2011, 11:29 AM
chara, lidstrom and weber are the norris finalists.....


I really think Visnovski deserved a nomination....
No Vish-nasty, Yandle, Buff, etc.

I mean Nik Lidstrom had a very good year, but he was a minus for the first time ever in his career.

Don't get me wrong, Shea Weber had a good year and is a franchise dman, but best in the NHL this year :\

I really don't see how Chara gets nominated. What? because he's first in +/- despite being 19th in points and outside the top 20 in PPP?

phaneuf6
04-25-2011, 11:30 AM
Shea Weber gets my vote here pretty easily.

boredguy
04-25-2011, 11:30 AM
It doesn't go by nominations, it goes by total votes, they just announce the top 3 vote getters.
I'd also say Yandle is more deserving then Visnovsky.

moans
04-25-2011, 12:15 PM
I don't understand how Yandle isn't up there. He had a better season than Chara. My vote goes to Lidstrom here

Snipes16
04-25-2011, 03:58 PM
Shea Weber gets my vote here pretty easily.

1. Weber
2. Chara
3. Letang

I'm on board with Phaneuf....Lidstrom is still solid but top 3? not for me. Yandle was worthy over Lidstrom imo but he's not better overall than Chara or Weber.

I thought Letang was the best defenceman I saw over a long stretch during the middle of the season. He doubled his point total to 50 and finished +15 without Sid and Geno for a good stretch as well.

Chara's getting picked on in here but his numbers are similar to when he won 2 years ago. Take goaltenders out of the mix and he's arguably the most valuable skater in the entire league and was voted most difficult tp play against by the players in a land slide. If the players voted for the Norris he'd probably win.

I think Weber wins in a tight vote over Chara.

spelled his name wrong 3 times, yeah I know what I'm talkin about...pffft

two24four
04-25-2011, 04:09 PM
Weber and his beard should win.

chgorman
04-25-2011, 09:19 PM
Yandle deserved a nomination over Weber and Chara IMO. This is Lidstroms to lose. If he plays in front of Tim Thomas or Pekka Rinne, he finishes with a much better +/- to go along with top offensive production, to say nothing of doing it all while accumulating only 20 pims.

I'm all for the best defensive defenceman winning the Norris, always have been, and in this case, Lidstrom was still a rock defensively, IMO just as good as the other two regardless of what +/- says, and noticeably outperformed the other two offensively, which is the clincher. I know I'm biased being a Wings fan, so interpret my comments however you want, but those are my thoughts.

I'm surprised Vis wasn't nominated given his offensive totals, but aside from Yandle being snubbed, I'm okay with the Chara and Weber (and obviosuly Lidstrom) nominations

Hamsterkill
04-25-2011, 09:47 PM
I'm baffled that Visnovsky didn't even get enough votes for a top-3 position. Huge offensive numbers and from what I've been able to tell, his best defensive season as well.

I can understand Chara being there. He's a beast for a Boston team that was great this year and even lacking offensive totals, he does a whole lot for that team.

Weber, I don't get. Nashville might have one of the deepest group of defensemen in the league. I'm sure Weber was great, but I don't see how he's Norris-worthy ahead of Visnovsky.

phaneuf6
04-26-2011, 12:17 AM
The only reason Weber isn't considered a top 3 defenseman in this league by the majority of hockey fans is because of the lack of exposure the Preds get. If he played in Toronto, Boston, Detroit, etc he'd have a lot more of you on board.

Kyle
04-26-2011, 12:37 AM
The only reason Weber isn't considered a top 3 defenseman in this league by the majority of hockey fans is because of the lack of exposure the Preds get. If he played in Toronto, Boston, Detroit, etc he'd have a lot more of you on board.

I think conversely, people would simply prefer to not see more success for the Wings or more trophys for Lidstrom. He had the best season of the 3 nominated. I don't know how Vissy didn't get more votes.

Hockeyis#1
04-26-2011, 05:14 PM
I thought Letang was the best defenceman I saw over a long stretch during the middle of the season. He doubled his point total to 50 and finished +15 without Sid and Geno for a good stretch as well.
I couldn't disagree more.

He had 14pts in the 41 games after Crosby went down and was utterly invisible on the ice (except for when he was screwing up) during that time.

Snipes16
04-26-2011, 06:13 PM
Maybe "middle" of the season was a bit off but he did have 40 pts in his 1st 45 games of the season which is more accurate when I claimed he looked like the best defenceman. If you go back further into this thread you'll see I wasn't the only one that felt that way at the time.

Cant deny his tailoff in the second half but when you lose Sid and then Malkin and play a bunch of 1-0, 2-1 games the points are going to dry up pretty fast. I'll even agree that defensively he's been a bit rough but for me he's probably the closest thing I've seen to Nieds and arguably the most improved player I've seen from last year...fucken shoot me for placing him 3rd, still not nearly outrageous as claiming Crawford for the Calder

Hamsterkill
04-27-2011, 03:55 PM
Selke finalists are Datsyuk, Kesler, and Toews. Nothing too surprising here. Bergeron and Nielsen were likely 4th and 5th.

Raja
04-27-2011, 05:21 PM
I think it's ridiculous Datsyuk can play 56 games and still get nominated.

chgorman
04-27-2011, 08:30 PM
I think it's ridiculous Datsyuk can play 56 games and still get nominated.

Why? He showed outstanding defensive prowess in those 56 games. If he had played less than half a season or just a few games and still got nominated then I could see your point, but he played over two thirds of the season and was a defensive machine the entire time.

The fact that he was able to put up the defensive numbers he did in fewer games than the other two just speaks to how good he was in the games he did play in.

Hockeyis#1
04-27-2011, 10:08 PM
Cant deny his tailoff in the second half but when you lose Sid and then Malkin and play a bunch of 1-0, 2-1 games the points are going to dry up pretty fast.
Or your point earning was nicely padded by simply making the outlet pass to Sid & Geno and watch them put it in or pass to someone who then puts it in.

phaneuf6
04-27-2011, 11:18 PM
Or your point earning was nicely padded by simply making the outlet pass to Sid & Geno and watch them put it in or pass to someone who then puts it in.

Or you could make that argument for any defenseman in the league.. most defensemen have heavy assist totals, ie other players finishing on their passes. :rolleyes:

two24four
04-28-2011, 11:08 AM
D. Sedin, Perry, St. Louis all up for the Hart.

Go Perry !!

Raja
04-28-2011, 10:07 PM
Why? He showed outstanding defensive prowess in those 56 games. If he had played less than half a season or just a few games and still got nominated then I could see your point, but he played over two thirds of the season and was a defensive machine the entire time.

The fact that he was able to put up the defensive numbers he did in fewer games than the other two just speaks to how good he was in the games he did play in.

Well, I meant it in both the context you took it, and that it's ridiculous Datsyuk is so good he deserves a nomination, but honestly I was pretty torn on it.

He missed 26 games. Crosby missed 41 but was still the leading scorer on his team, does he deserve Hart? Absolutely not. Thomas doesn't get Hart consideration from most people because he didn't play enough games either. You can't give awards out to people missing over a quarter of the season.

Hockeyis#1
04-29-2011, 12:37 PM
Bylsma, Trotz, and Vigneault for Jack Adams.

I'm surprised Vigneault finished in the top 3 for votes with how loaded his team is and all.

dw13
04-29-2011, 12:39 PM
No Boucher?

Unreal.

Hamsterkill
04-29-2011, 12:47 PM
No Boucher?

Unreal.
I think more people credit Yzerman with Tampa's return to the postseason than they do Boucher.

Yeah, I'd say Bylsma or Trotz wins it, but it's never a surprise to see the President's Trophy team's coach up for the Adams.

Raja
04-29-2011, 01:10 PM
It's also the first time ever/in a long time that a team was top 5 in goals for, goals against, PP, and PK all at the same time. Including the man games lost on D between Bieksa, Salo, Ballard, Edler, and Hamhuis, it's still impressive. Really does suck Boucher didn't get it though. If Devils made the playoffs I'd have expected Lemaire too.

Out of those 3 I'd give it to Bylsma

chgorman
04-29-2011, 01:15 PM
It's also the first time ever/in a long time that a team was top 5 in goals for, goals against, PP, and PK all at the same time. Including the man games lost on D between Bieksa, Salo, Ballard, Edler, and Hamhuis, it's still impressive. Really does suck Boucher didn't get it though. If Devils made the playoffs I'd have expected Lemaire too.

Out of those 3 I'd give it to Bylsma

Agreed. I hate the Pens, but what he was able to do with that team without Cros or Malkin for large chunks of the season is pretty impressive.

Kyle
04-29-2011, 03:15 PM
It's also the first time ever/in a long time that a team was top 5 in goals for, goals against, PP, and PK all at the same time.

Off the top of my head, thats even selling them short. They were number 1 in 3/4 of those Cats and #2 at the 4th.

Raja
04-29-2011, 04:20 PM
I didn't know specifics and didn't feel like looking them up, but yeah that's pretty ridiculous.

Hockeyis#1
05-02-2011, 03:05 PM
Yeah, I'd say Bylsma or Trotz wins it, but it's never a surprise to see the President's Trophy team's coach up for the Adams. Last coach to win the President's Trophy and the Jack Adams in the same year was Quenneville in 2000. I don't even think Babcock has been nominated let alone won.

Hamsterkill
05-02-2011, 04:36 PM
Last coach to win the President's Trophy and the Jack Adams in the same year was Quenneville in 2000. I don't even think Babcock has been nominated let alone won.
Is there a reason you quoted me?

Anyways, Babcock was a finalist for the Adams in 2007-2008 -- Detroit's President's Trophy year.

chgorman
05-02-2011, 06:53 PM
Is there a reason you quoted me?

Pretty sure he quoted you because he was addressing your comment directly. I thought that was pretty clear in his response, no?

Kyle
05-02-2011, 08:32 PM
Pretty sure he quoted you because he was addressing your comment directly. I thought that was pretty clear in his response, no?

Agreed.

I think the logic that a presidents winning coach shouldn't get the adams is asinine.

Hamsterkill
05-02-2011, 08:50 PM
Pretty sure he quoted you because he was addressing your comment directly. I thought that was pretty clear in his response, no?


Agreed.

I think the logic that a presidents winning coach shouldn't get the adams is asinine.
I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I said that it's never a surprise for a coach of the President's-winning team to be a finalist. It happens quite often. H#1 then said something about them hardly ever winning the Adams, which had nothing to do with my comment that I can see. Please explain it to me if I'm missing it.

If you guys are trying to say that AV should be Adams-winner this year, I don't necessarily disagree with you there, either. I said I expected Bylsma or Trotz to take it and H#1's comment supported that statement kind of... Is that the reason he quoted me? If so, fine. It's just that from the tone of his post it seemed like he was disagreeing with someone or just presenting information.

Kyle
05-03-2011, 12:20 AM
Hamster, you're honestly all sorts of lost right now. ;)

All me and Chg are saying is that he quoted you because his comment obviously directly related to what you were saying. You said its never a surprise to see a Presidents coach nominated for the Adams and Hockeyis#1 very obviously refuted that by presenting a fact about the last time a coach has won both. Me and Chg are both simply perplexed by you choosing to ask "Why did you chose to quote me."

Neither one of me or Chg was actually disagreeing/addressing your points on the subject.

I went on to randomly express my thoughts (This wasn't aimed at you in any way) on whether a presidents coach should get Adams consideration or not. I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Hamsterkill
05-03-2011, 06:16 AM
Hamster, you're honestly all sorts of lost right now. ;)

All me and Chg are saying is that he quoted you because his comment obviously directly related to what you were saying. You said its never a surprise to see a Presidents coach nominated for the Adams and Hockeyis#1 very obviously refuted that by presenting a fact about the last time a coach has won both. Me and Chg are both simply perplexed by you choosing to ask "Why did you chose to quote me."

Neither one of me or Chg was actually disagreeing/addressing your points on the subject.

I went on to randomly express my thoughts (This wasn't aimed at you in any way) on whether a presidents coach should get Adams consideration or not. I wasn't disagreeing with you.
Okay, that clears up a little.

I still don't see how he was refuting what I was saying, though. How frequently a Presidents' coach wins the Adams has nothing to do with how frequently they are a finalist. His and mine are completely separate and both true comments. This is why I was confused that he quoted me.

Hockeyis#1
05-05-2011, 01:25 PM
I imagine they can't WIN the trophy unless they are NOMINATED....

Kyle
05-05-2011, 02:12 PM
Okay, that clears up a little.

I still don't see how he was refuting what I was saying, though. How frequently a Presidents' coach wins the Adams has nothing to do with how frequently they are a finalist. His and mine are completely separate and both true comments. This is why I was confused that he quoted me.

He was making the point that it almost never happens to disagree with your point that its "never a surprise." Your interpreting his point correctly, but not all the way. You're half right, but the other half of the argument (and the half that refutes you) is that he finds it unlikely to even see them nominated.

Hamsterkill
05-05-2011, 05:45 PM
He was making the point that it almost never happens to disagree with your point that its "never a surprise." Your interpreting his point correctly, but not all the way. You're half right, but the other half of the argument (and the half that refutes you) is that he finds it unlikely to even see them nominated.
But I don't see how his comment makes that argument. Who wins a trophy has no bearing on who the top-3 are except that they have tio be one of the three. That argument is like saying it's a surprise to see Russia's hockey team medal at the Olympics since they haven't won a gold since 1988.

Anyways... Since the lockout, the President's Trophy winning coach has also been a finalist for the Adams every year except for 2 (2010 and 2006).

Kyle
05-05-2011, 09:40 PM
He introduced that argument when he said "I don't think Babcock's even been nominated, let alone won." The point of that comment is, if its not surprising to see the Presidents coach up for the Adams, Babcock would be nominated (every year Detroit won the Presidents trophy) because I think anyone here would agree he is easily the top coach among that bracket of teams consistently competing for the trophy. Hes using Babcock's lack of nominations to refute your point that its never a surprise.

Haha, not that it even somewhat matters anymore. I guess I just enjoy explaining things.

Hamsterkill
05-05-2011, 10:11 PM
He introduced that argument when he said "I don't think Babcock's even been nominated, let alone won." The point of that comment is, if its not surprising to see the Presidents coach up for the Adams, Babcock would be nominated (every year Detroit won the Presidents trophy) because I think anyone here would agree he is easily the top coach among that bracket of teams consistently competing for the trophy. Hes using Babcock's lack of nominations to refute your point that its never a surprise.

Haha, not that it even somewhat matters anymore. I guess I just enjoy explaining things.
If that's true that that's how he was trying to introduce the point, he went about it in a bad way.

First of all, Babcock was nominated one of the two times he coached the Wings to a Pres Trophy. Secondly, just because he wasn't a finalist in 2006 doesn't mean it would have been a surprise if he had been. And finally, using such a specific example, even if the example worked, is a weak way to refute something that allows for counterexamples.

Kyle
05-05-2011, 10:22 PM
I'm won't disagree with that, my intentions were only to input on why I felt he quoted you, since you seemed curious.

Hockeyis#1
05-05-2011, 11:43 PM
Jack Adams winners seem to come from two different criteria:
1) they turn around a team that struggled and make them into a contender in a short period of time
Examples-Boundreau, Julien, Vigneault, Burns

2) Coaches that get the most from a roster lacking star power
Examples-Ruff, Tippett, Barber, Francis, Lemaire, Quenneville, Martin, Burns, Nolan,

That covers 13 of the last 14 Jack Adams winners. Torts being the odd man out, but the system that TB ran that year caused them to win, but it wouldn't work with lesser talented players (namely in net).

Which is why its unusual for a Jack Adams winner to win the President's trophy, or even coach a top talent team, because they're typically a team loaded with talent making it (supposedly) easier on the coach. This probably also has to do with why there's only ever been 1 back to back Jack Adams winner ever.

Hamsterkill
05-06-2011, 12:36 AM
This time you didn't quote me, but I still feel like it might be a repsonse to me after what Kyle said, so if not, then disregard...

Jack Adams winners seem to come from two different criteria:
1) they turn around a team that struggled and make them into a contender in a short period of time
Examples-Boundreau, Julien, Vigneault, Burns

2) Coaches that get the most from a roster lacking star power
Examples-Ruff, Tippett, Barber, Francis, Lemaire, Quenneville, Martin, Burns, Nolan,

That covers 13 of the last 14 Jack Adams winners. Torts being the odd man out, but the system that TB ran that year caused them to win, but it wouldn't work with lesser talented players (namely in net).

Which is why its unusual for a Jack Adams winner to win the President's trophy, or even coach a top talent team, because they're typically a team loaded with talent making it (supposedly) easier on the coach. This probably also has to do with why there's only ever been 1 back to back Jack Adams winner ever.
All true. But it's still no surprise to see a Pres Trophy coach in the *top 3* for a season. I *never* said AV would or even should *win*. But it's not a surprise that he's among the finalists, and you still haven't said anything that actually argues that fact.

Doctego
05-06-2011, 10:28 AM
Hamster.......Please give it up and tell me WTF is wrong with my laptop.:D

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
06-23-2011, 02:25 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/201106/20110623penguins_500.jpg

Hell yes! Happy for Dan Bylsma. He is an incredible coach who did a truly spectacular job with this team. Nevermind the fact that you lose two of the best in the game in Crosby and Geno + Stall for about a half a season each but the Pens team as a whole lost 350 man-games to injuries in 2010-11, and, at one point, the top seven scorers from minor league affiliate Wilkes-Barre/Scranton were on the NHL roster. Nearly won the East and put together the best record in franchise hx. Well done coach. Well deserved imho. So happy for him n his family!


Just glancing through but looks to me like they got most of the awards right this time around.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11174/1155631-61.stm

szuturon
06-23-2011, 08:06 AM
Weber was sooooo close...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/How-Corey-Perry-won-the-Hart-and-other-revealing?urn=nhl-wp7746&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Kyle
06-23-2011, 12:30 PM
Weber shouldn't have been so close, IMO. He had the Vezina runner-up (Destroyed Luongo in the voting) backing him up all year and still barely squeaked by with a +7. Lidstrom's -2 was inaccurate in reflecting the defense he played all year. The team's structure defensively was shaky all season and Howard never really strung together anything great through the season. +/- is and always will be a team stat first and foremost. Lidstrom should've ran with the voting, a +/- difference of 9 should not have weighed so heavily on voter's minds.

Hamsterkill
06-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Weber shouldn't have been so close, IMO. He had the Vezina runner-up (Destroyed Luongo in the voting) backing him up all year and still barely squeaked by with a +7. Lidstrom's -2 was inaccurate in reflecting the defense he played all year. The team's structure defensively was shaky all season and Howard never really strung together anything great through the season. +/- is and always will be a team stat first and foremost. Lidstrom should've ran with the voting, a +/- difference of 9 should not have weighed so heavily on voter's minds.
I think it's more a stat that has be weighted depending on how it compares with the rest of the team. Since both Weber and Lids fell in average territory for their team I agree it shouldn't weight that heavily, but I'm not so certain it did anyways. I imagine Weber's blocked shots and hits played into the votes more. Possibly also PK time since I can't find what the difference in that stat was right now.

Kyle
06-23-2011, 12:46 PM
Yeah, fair game, I'll admit I got biased and didn't consider other numbers enough. Though I will say hits aren't entirely fair because guys like Lidstrom and Nieds play styles of defense just as effective (if not moreso) than physical players who throw their body around but don't necessarily get measured in numbers.

Overall the Norris trophy is pretty grossly inconsistent in its criteria.

Hamsterkill
06-23-2011, 12:48 PM
Overall the Norris trophy is pretty grossly inconsistent in its criteria.
I don't think anyone will argue that. Same can often be said of the Selke, too.

Kyle
06-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Absolutely. The Selke is rather outrageous in particular. The dramatic shifts in valuing offense+defense vs just defense is pretty insane.

abusiveninja
06-23-2011, 01:07 PM
Why do they have presenters who can't properly pronounce the players' names? Insulting, embarrassing and pathetic.

habsfan1
06-24-2011, 12:57 PM
Absolutely. The Selke is rather outrageous in particular. The dramatic shifts in valuing offense+defense vs just defense is pretty insane.

I hate the selke trophy for that reason. Offense should have no factor in the determination of the trophy. It should go to the best shutdown forward, the one that goes out there against the top line, the great penalty killer.

I think it's just easier for the voters to give it to the best two-way player, because using points can factor out a lot of players.