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phaneuf6
11-12-2010, 11:45 AM
Some nice free agents out there this year so this thread is probably necessary.

Anybody hear about this one?

http://www.terezowens.com/jayson-werth-caught-sleeping-with-chase-utleys-wife/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TerezOwens+%28Terez+Owens%29

b_illin
11-12-2010, 12:19 PM
Uh oh!

secol
11-12-2010, 02:03 PM
lol, good thing he was never on the same team as benson

Motorcat
11-16-2010, 09:58 PM
Braves traded Omar Infante and LHP Mike Dunn to Marlins for Dan Uggla.


I really like this trade and thought Uggla would of costed much more than what was given.

Now - Uggla at 2nd and Prado at 3rd or does Chipper return to 3rd/maybe 1st.

Uggla and Prado could also be used in LF

I don't think the Braves are done yet .................. Crawford or Werth might be on their X-mas list.

dw13
11-16-2010, 10:07 PM
Still think the Braves should nut up and go after Fielder. They should of kept big Teix. They need a big bat on the corner of the infield.

I think Prado will go to 1st, along with Freddie Freeman? That is of course until Chipper gets hurt again.

I'm not a big fan of Uggla but it's a cheap tag because his contract is a bit high.

two24four
11-17-2010, 12:06 AM
Uggla can mash that's for sure, but he's not a very good feilding 2nd basemen, alot of GM's said if they where to sign or trade for him they would want to move him over to 3rd. Just shows you what the Marlins think of him trading him to team in the NL East.

Also John Buck signed a three year deal with the Marlins, Red Sox wanted him pretty bad I know as well.

Motorcat
11-17-2010, 12:40 AM
Just shows you what the Marlins think of him trading him to team in the NL East.

I am not buying that .............. Same could be said for the Braves trading Infante within the division. I doubt they (Braves) think he will have another career year like he just had but they were still high on him.

This move has more to do with new Braves manager ex Marlins manager Freddie Gonzalez being familiar with Uggla than a swap of players not well thought of.

secol
11-17-2010, 01:32 AM
i also thought uggla would fetch more

two24four
11-17-2010, 12:52 PM
i also thought uggla would fetch more

Here is the Jays offer for Uggla.

Ken Rosenthal twitter.



Blue Jays had most early interest in Uggla. Jays' offer: RHP J. Roenicke, RHP D. Farquhar and either SS R. Goins or OF D. Mastroianni

secol
11-17-2010, 01:16 PM
yeah i saw that, definitely the braves offered more but still surprised the jays didn't up their offer a little more

Motorcat
11-17-2010, 03:04 PM
Continuing with the conversation at hand ............

I saw Frank Wrenn on MLB network today - he said the infield was Chipper third, Uggla second, Freeman first, no mention of SS. Prado will play left as he has been playing their during fall leagues.

two24four
11-17-2010, 04:36 PM
Ken Rosenthal twitter.



Blue Jays on verge of getting Rajai Davis from A's. Not sure of other players involved


Here is more from Ken.



Padres also had interest in R. Davis before acquiring Maybin. Davis could play RF for Blue Jays if Bautista moves to 3B. A's.

Solid leadoff hitter who can swipe bases with the best of them, I wonder what this means for Lewis.

dw13
11-17-2010, 05:41 PM
Davis is a bum, but he's better then Maybin ever will be.

Maybin has one of the worst batters eyes I think I've ever seen.

Edit: How did Lewis play when he signed with TOR? I remember saying I thought you guys would enjoy him.

secol
11-17-2010, 08:06 PM
i like davis in CF with Wells moving to RF and bautista to third

two24four
11-17-2010, 08:35 PM
Davis is a bum, but he's better then Maybin ever will be.

Maybin has one of the worst batters eyes I think I've ever seen.

Edit: How did Lewis play when he signed with TOR? I remember saying I thought you guys would enjoy him.

He was great when he frist game to Toronto, but then near the end of the season he was lucky to start a game.


i like davis in CF with Wells moving to RF and bautista to third

I like this idea as well, I always liked Bautista better at 3rd anyways.

I dont mind AA picking up Davis, he brings tons of speed to the lineup something we need, cant just be a team with guys who mash.

It's a done deal, Davis is a Jay.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=341642

secol
11-18-2010, 01:53 AM
also looking at their career splits CF/RF with lewis against RHP in RF and davis against LHP in CF would maximize their AVG as well as having whoever is off as a fourth OFer to rotate with wells/snider for rest or pinch runner/defensive sub

two24four
11-18-2010, 12:57 PM
Jays showing interest in Justin Upton.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-GM-meetings-trade-rumors-Justin-Upton-Boston-Red-Sox-Arizona-Diamondbacks

phaneuf6
11-18-2010, 01:59 PM
I would cream myself if Upton became a Jay.

secol
11-18-2010, 02:36 PM
i don't see how we would get him without severely overpaying

b_illin
11-18-2010, 04:06 PM
Snider + Drabek?? (not sure how much they expect if they want to 'win' the trade)

two24four
11-18-2010, 06:18 PM
ARI is saying they want at least four top prospects for Upton.

I'm guessing Snider would have to be in the deal for sure.

I dont know if AA would be willing to trade Drabek, he wanted him pretty bad, and they traded one of, if not the best Blue Jays pitcher ever to get him.

Maybe something like Snider, Hechavarria, Roenicke, and maybe Marcum would get it done.

secol
11-18-2010, 07:24 PM
definitely not a price i'd want to pay for upton.....

Motorcat
11-18-2010, 09:39 PM
Hearing that the Braves may have something in the works with the Yankees for B.Gardner

two24four
11-18-2010, 09:41 PM
Yanks would be stupid to trade Gardner IMO.

secol
11-19-2010, 01:21 AM
braves OF is getting crowded.....they already have to move prado to OF after the uggla deal and they already have heyward, mclouth there

dw13
11-19-2010, 01:29 AM
braves OF is getting crowded.....they already have to move prado to OF after the uggla deal and they already have heyward, mclouth there

Prado can play 1st and 3rd as well.

CayugaPosse
11-19-2010, 02:58 AM
Yanks would be stupid to trade Gardner IMO.

They'll only do it if they land Justin Upton IMO.

secol
11-19-2010, 11:42 AM
i think they're ready for freeman to start at 1b and once chipper is healthy he'll be a 3b

dw13
11-19-2010, 11:54 AM
i think they're ready for freeman to start at 1b and once chipper is healthy he'll be a 3b

Can't imagine they'll play Chipper daily, and I'd even think Freeman would get every so often days off as well. Prado will definitely see some time in the outfield, but they do have room for another one since Prado will more then likely end up playing more games in the infield then outfield, IMO.

two24four
11-19-2010, 02:44 PM
They'll only do it if they land Justin Upton IMO.

That would be one of the only way's I would trade Gardner if I'm the Yanks.

Wont matter anyways, Justin Upton will be a Jay before long :D

Motorcat
11-19-2010, 04:49 PM
Can't imagine they'll play Chipper daily, and I'd even think Freeman would get every so often days off as well. Prado will definitely see some time in the outfield, but they do have room for another one since Prado will more then likely end up playing more games in the infield then outfield, IMO.


You missed this ...................Motorcat: I saw Frank Wrenn on MLB network today - he said the infield was Chipper third, Uggla second, Freeman first, no mention of SS. Prado will play left as he has been playing their during fall leagues

dw13
11-19-2010, 04:54 PM
You missed this ...................Motorcat: I saw Frank Wrenn on MLB network today - he said the infield was Chipper third, Uggla second, Freeman first, no mention of SS. Prado will play left as he has been playing their during fall leagues

I understand that's what they want, but will they stick with Freeman everyday even if he goes into a slump? How about when Chipper when he goes down?

Opening day that's what it'll be but I just can't imagine a scenario where Prado doesn't see a good chunk of games in the infield.

Then again, I'm not a Braves fan and I should shut up and listen to you. :lol:

two24four
11-20-2010, 12:45 AM
Ken Rosenthal says the four teams on Justin Upton's no trade list are, A's, KC, DET and CLE, he can go any where else without ARI asking.

two24four
11-23-2010, 01:05 AM
Nice to see the Canadian boy Votto win the NL MVP.

Now I hope Hamilton wins the AL MVP.

eff1ngham
11-23-2010, 11:43 AM
So V-Mart's going to the Tigers? That should certainly help out Cabrera next year

two24four
11-23-2010, 02:06 PM
Josh Hamilton named AL MVP, awesome.

Jose Bautista got one 1st place vote, while Cano had 0 1st place vote's, haha.

keys2aFranchise
11-23-2010, 09:21 PM
Reports about the negotiations between Jeter and Yanks have been interesting.

two24four
11-23-2010, 10:03 PM
Reports about the negotiations between Jeter and Yanks have been interesting.

Yeah really, Yanks GM telling him to look at other teams if he wants.

Sign with the Red Sox Jeter, haha.

Snipes16
11-25-2010, 01:12 AM
Couldn't believe the sweetheart of a deal at 3 years and 45 million they offered Jeter.

Even more dumbfounded that he snubbed his nose at it...37 years old in June coming off a career low .270 avg? Who's gonna offer him 50?

He oughta apologize to Hankie before it's too late and off the table completely...dumbass

phaneuf6
11-25-2010, 01:47 AM
Rosenthal made a good point. Jeter, with that deal, would make less than AJ Burnett at the same age. Relatively speaking, it's insulting to Jeter, the face of the franchise. I agree it's a pretty decent deal considering his age and inevitable decline over the 3 years, but still, he's earned the right to hold out for now, IMO.

two24four
11-25-2010, 01:58 AM
Yeah no way is Jeter signing for less then what Burnett makes.

I dont like Jeter or the Yanks, but how crazy would it be to see him wearing another teams jersey.

dw13
11-25-2010, 10:46 AM
I have no problem with what the Yankees are doing. It's a fair deal to Jeter. It's above market value for a SS of his qualities at his age. I hope the Yankees don't budge, where else is Jeter going to go?

eff1ngham
11-25-2010, 07:51 PM
Jeter does bring more to the table than just his abilities on the field. There's leadership qualities. And not that the Yankees need help filling their park or selling merchandise, but he does certainly help there as he's one of the most popular players in baseball.


Who's gonna offer him 50?

Depends on how desperate teams are. I've heard Baltimore or St Louis thrown around. Or what about Detroit, LAA or even San Fran? There are certainly teams that could use him, just depends on how much they'll pay

Snipes16
11-25-2010, 08:42 PM
He just finished up a 10 year 189 million dollar deal. He was well taken care of by the Boss with that deal and I still cant believe he turned down this one at 45 million for 3.

How much dough does one need...let him go to Baltimore, as a Sox fan I dont want him at that dough and age regardless of intangibles

eff1ngham
11-25-2010, 09:50 PM
I've always thought he was an overrated SS defensively, but there's no question he was a great hitter. If he can't hit any more, then no he's not worth that kind of money. However, lots of players aren't worth the money they ask for, and yet still get it

two24four
11-25-2010, 10:06 PM
I've always thought he was an overrated SS defensively, but there's no question he was a great hitter. If he can't hit any more, then no he's not worth that kind of money. However, lots of players aren't worth the money they ask for, and yet still get it

:yesyes:

I'm sure if he was to not resign with the Yanks, he might be willing to sign with DET seeing as he's from the area.

Doctego
11-25-2010, 11:34 PM
Couldn't believe the sweetheart of a deal at 3 years and 45 million they offered Jeter.

Even more dumbfounded that he snubbed his nose at it...37 years old in June coming off a career low .270 avg? Who's gonna offer him 50?

He oughta apologize to Hankie before it's too late and off the table completely...dumbass

LOL. You are completely wrong on all counts. If we just looked at the money, it's pretty fair. It's about more than that with him. I don't blame the Yankees for offering that but I do for the way that they have gone about things in the press.

Doctego
11-25-2010, 11:37 PM
He just finished up a 10 year 189 million dollar deal. He was well taken care of by the Boss with that deal and I still cant believe he turned down this one at 45 million for 3.

How much dough does one need...let him go to Baltimore, as a Sox fan I dont want him at that dough and age regardless of intangibles

As I said, it's about more than the money here but it is also really easy for us to sit her on our computers and question how much money someone wants or needs. If that's the case, everyone should just play for the minimum.

Snipes16
11-26-2010, 10:43 AM
As I said, it's about more than the money here but it is also really easy for us to sit her on our computers and question how much money someone wants or needs. If that's the case, everyone should just play for the minimum.

Please do tell what exactly it is that you think he's looking for? More years? Does he plan on playing into his early 40's? Respect? Is the baboon next to him at 3rd making so much more than him that it's disrespectful to be offered 3 and 45?

I brought up the 10 year 189 million deal to suggest that he was treated more than fairly from George 10 years ago in the first place. Now they offer him 3 years at 15 million per to stay on at 36 and retire as a top 4 Yankee of all time like he should and he says no way? I say retire because by the time that 3 years is up he likely wont be playing short anymore and I cant see the guy moving over to second base ever.

Where does he get the ego to turn that down? He's not a 15 million dollar a year player anymore, let alone for 3 more years at that dough even with MLB's ridiculously overinflated salaries.

moans
11-26-2010, 12:28 PM
HAHAHAHAHA. Jeter wants a 6 year deal worth 150 million. Good luck with that.
http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=342923

Free agent shortstop Derek Jeter (http://tsn.ca/mlb/teams/players/?name=derek+jeter) is reportedly asking the New York Yankees for a new six-year, $150 million deal

dw13
11-26-2010, 12:31 PM
:lol::lol::lol:

two24four
11-26-2010, 01:32 PM
I just read that as well, that's F-ing crazy, good luck dude.

Snipes16
11-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Suddenly Bernie Madoff doesn't seem like such a bad shit

Doctego
11-26-2010, 03:46 PM
Please do tell what exactly it is that you think he's looking for? More years? Does he plan on playing into his early 40's? Respect? Is the baboon next to him at 3rd making so much more than him that it's disrespectful to be offered 3 and 45?

I brought up the 10 year 189 million deal to suggest that he was treated more than fairly from George 10 years ago in the first place. Now they offer him 3 years at 15 million per to stay on at 36 and retire as a top 4 Yankee of all time like he should and he says no way? I say retire because by the time that 3 years is up he likely wont be playing short anymore and I cant see the guy moving over to second base ever.

Where does he get the ego to turn that down? He's not a 15 million dollar a year player anymore, let alone for 3 more years at that dough even with MLB's ridiculously overinflated salaries.

His last contract was extremely inflated and he should thank A-Rod every minute of the day for it but that last contract has nothing to do with his next contract. Now, I am obviously not in on all of the details but I would think that there are numerous factors in play here. Jeter is the captain, was a big part of their 4-in-5 from 1996-2000, and is only 1 year older than A-Rod. A-Rod signed a contract through the 2017 season. Now, I am not saying that Jeter should be signed through that season but I can see him having a problem with being offered a 3 year deal at a pay decrease, being told that it was a take it or leave it offer, and then being told to shop for another offer in the press if he wasn't happy. I agree that 3/45 is more than fair for his on the field talents but this is about more. It's about the Yankee brand. As a hater, you might not want to discuss that but it is real. He is the face of the most prosperous franchise in (American) sports. I didn't see the need for them to alienate him like that. Sure, they can do what they want but what purpose does it serve?? He is their captain and I don't see a way for this to end pretty unless they end up offering him more money or years. If he comes back at 3/45, it will look like he came back with his tail between his legs. Is that really necessary?? Eventually, all will be forgotten but it really wasn't something that needed to be done. They knew all along that they would need to overpay him because of his name, his status, the brand, and what he has done for it so I don't know why this couldn't just be done privately, as they initially said they would.

Snipes16
11-28-2010, 01:48 AM
So on the one hand you admit that he was overpaid with his last deal but instead of thanking Arod shouldn't he really be thanking the Yankees for forking over that 189 million because they were the one's with pockets deep enough to even make it happen 10 years ago. They dont owe him a damn thing for what he's done in the past, he has been compensated, that bill is paid.

Using the Arod is 1 year younger than Jeter defense doesn't hold water because Arod's deal came at age 31 on the heels of a monster MVP season which was his 2nd in 3 years with NY pre roids.

.314 - 54 hr - 156 rbi - 143 runs - 24 steals = 25 million per. He was arguably the best player in the game at that time and not 36 yrs old coming off a year in which he hit .270.

Not disagreeing that he is the face of the franchise or all the intangibles he brings to the Yanks but at what cost? Again, he's been taken care of in a big way by the Steinbrenner's and for him to try and bend the club over with this 150 million ransom is so horse shit that its laughable. Is there even a doubt that Hank is chapped as shit after hearing those demands? He potentially isn't going to retire as a Yankee over money after they paid him in excess of 200 million...nice

It's pure greed on Jeter's part because in reality the tip of the iceberg for him at his age is 60 million guaranteed and if Hankie decides to say fuck him, he wont even see that on the open market. Christ, his ego is only rivaled by Kim Kardashian's and they both look like whore's.

Doctego
11-28-2010, 08:06 AM
So on the one hand you admit that he was overpaid with his last deal but instead of thanking Arod shouldn't he really be thanking the Yankees for forking over that 189 million because they were the one's with pockets deep enough to even make it happen 10 years ago. They dont owe him a damn thing for what he's done in the past, he has been compensated, that bill is paid.

Using the Arod is 1 year younger than Jeter defense doesn't hold water because Arod's deal came at age 31 on the heels of a monster MVP season which was his 2nd in 3 years with NY pre roids.

.314 - 54 hr - 156 rbi - 143 runs - 24 steals = 25 million per. He was arguably the best player in the game at that time and not 36 yrs old coming off a year in which he hit .270.

Not disagreeing that he is the face of the franchise or all the intangibles he brings to the Yanks but at what cost? Again, he's been taken care of in a big way by the Steinbrenner's and for him to try and bend the club over with this 150 million ransom is so horse shit that its laughable. Is there even a doubt that Hank is chapped as shit after hearing those demands? He potentially isn't going to retire as a Yankee over money after they paid him in excess of 200 million...nice

It's pure greed on Jeter's part because in reality the tip of the iceberg for him at his age is 60 million guaranteed and if Hankie decides to say fuck him, he wont even see that on the open market. Christ, his ego is only rivaled by Kim Kardashian's and they both look like whore's.

If that bill is paid, why do you keep bringing it up?? He should thank A-Rod because his crazy contract inflated the going rate for superstar SS at that time. The Yankees were actually quite stupid because George got cold feet or they could have signed him for about $70M less. Either way, I stand by my point that his last contract has nothing to do with this 1.

Let me try to get you away from your apparent hardon for money that he was already paid. Jeter is their captain. The Yankees have always been a team that celebrates it's past and Jeter is the face of this run (1996-present). Both sides want a reunion (I refuse to say wanted as of this point). Why would you want to alienate the face of your franchise?? Shit, he is a handful of hits away from doing something that no Yankee has ever done. Not a huge record in a MLB sense but with all of their history, no one has ever done it in a Yankee uniform. I reiterate that I don't think that the 3/45 was a bad offer on it's own. If they just made the offer and kept their mouths shut, I would have no issue. I just question why they needed to make the offer and then go to the press with it and the fact that it was a take-it-or-leave-it offer. That was completely unnecessary. Well within their rights but completely unnecessary.

I don't fault Jeter/Close for wanting more. I brought up the age comparison with A-Rod to show that it isn't crazy talk for him to want more years. Sure, A-Rod had the regular season numbers but he hadn't proven shit in the postseason. 3/45 or 4/60 isn't much different to them. They have thrown bad money away in the past for dogshit. There's no reason to make Jeter look like this in the press.

I don't know if you just like saying Hankie or what but he has little to nothing to do with this or any other baseball signings.

two24four
11-28-2010, 01:09 PM
With Jeter and the Yanks being about $80M apart I wonder what's going to happen, will one side give in abit, or will Jeter really be walking away from the Yanks, that would shock me.

b_illin
11-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Jeter is making it real easy for the Yanks to walk away...and not take a bunch of shit from the fans.

Doctego
11-29-2010, 12:01 AM
With Jeter and the Yanks being about $80M apart I wonder what's going to happen, will one side give in abit, or will Jeter really be walking away from the Yanks, that would shock me.

I don't see them as being that far apart. I really don't believe those $120M reports, TBH. If anything, that's his agent doing what fantasy owners do when they get a shit offer: he responded with an equally shitty offer.

Doctego
11-29-2010, 12:03 AM
Jeter is making it real easy for the Yanks to walk away...and not take a bunch of shit from the fans.

I disagree completely. Upper management will get killed if Jeter doesn't come back. I have seen no better than a 90%-10% split on this matter in favor of keeping Jeter. Some of that 10% number is probably Met fans trying to stir the pot.

keyboard
11-29-2010, 12:06 PM
I don't see them as being that far apart. I really don't believe those $120M reports, TBH.Me neither.

two24four
12-03-2010, 12:28 PM
Adam Dunn signed with the White Sox, guess we will get to see how he does in the AL.

two24four
12-04-2010, 11:28 AM
Sounds like the Red Sox have finally got A-Gon from the Padres, sounds like 4 prospects going the other way.

Nice deal for the Red Sox, now they can move Youk over to 3B full time.

Boston just got alot better.

Sounds like they are still going to try and land Crawford as well.

Motorcat
12-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Braves resigned Hinske the other day and traded some prospects for Scott Linebrink ......... Both of these moves make the Braves deeper on the bench and pen IMO.


Other news (some mentioned and some not) from this past week

* Adam Dunn to the ChiSox for 4yrs/$56million.

* Adrian Gonzalez tentatively traded to Red Sox for highly touted Red Sox minor leaguers, trying to work out extension. (Looks like Beltre's days in Boston are over, Youk to 3B).

* Jeter deal on the horizon, 3yrs/$51million with potential for a 4th year.

* Victor Martinez to the Tigers for 4yrs/$50million.

* Red Sox re-signed Jason Varitek to 1yr/$2milion.

* Pat Burrell re-upped with the Giants on a 1 year, incentive/performance heavy contract.

* Plenty of names on the trading block: Mark Reynolds, Jose Reyes, Heath Bell, Zack Greinke.

* Non-tenders: Bobby Jenks, Matt Diaz, Lastings Milledge, Russell Martin, Andrew Miller (yes, that one, just threw him in there because he has been described as a "project" for whoever picks him up).

keyboard
12-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Insert obligatory AL East complaining from a Toronto fan.

two24four
12-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Insert obligatory AL East complaining from a Toronto fan.

Makes AA job real tough.

phaneuf6
12-04-2010, 12:58 PM
Makes AA job real tough.

Well yea, how do you compete with 2 teams that can continually trade big prospects for big name talent and continually repeat the cycle year after year?

two24four
12-04-2010, 01:01 PM
Well yea, how do you compete with 2 teams that can continually trade big prospects for big name talent and continually repeat the cycle year after year?

Like I said it's really tough.

Rosenthal now also thinks the Red Sox should go after Werth as well.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Boston-Red-Sox-San-Diego-Padres-Adrian-Gonzalez-deal-affects-Hot-Stove-120410

boredguy
12-04-2010, 04:20 PM
Oh man, A-Gon in Boston is a scary thought. He could put up Pujols type numbers outside of Petco and in a decent lineup.

two24four
12-04-2010, 05:47 PM
Berkman signed a one year $8M deal with St. Louis today.

Motorcat
12-04-2010, 05:54 PM
Well yea, how do you compete with 2 teams that can continually trade big prospects for big name talent and continually repeat the cycle year after year?

Tampa has found a way

keyboard
12-04-2010, 05:56 PM
Makes AA job real tough.
I don't know if you hated Ricciardi or love Anthopoulos but you have a really annoying bias when you talk about him.

It's always been a tough job, was tough for Ricciardi but the guy got very little credit because of his public persona.

keyboard
12-04-2010, 05:56 PM
Tampa has found a waySucking balls for a fucking decade is not a way to manage a franchise in Toronto, buddy. Get a clue or stay out of the conversation.

two24four
12-04-2010, 06:03 PM
Tampa has found a way

That's what happens when they draft 1st or near the top every year.


I don't know if you hated Ricciardi or love Anthopoulos but you have a really annoying bias when you talk about him.

It's always been a tough job, was tough for Ricciardi but the guy got very little credit because of his public persona.

That pretty much sums it up.

Motorcat
12-04-2010, 06:15 PM
Kam

- first off, I am not your buddy.

- next, just like you .......wanted or unwanted I'll join any conversation I want to around here.

And finally you have really been pushing the boundaries here lately. I think you were warned earlier today by another mod but I'll make it perfect clear.
You are real close to getting some time off and given your repeated history here it could be a significant one.

Baiting and being insulting to others is just simply not going to be allowed.

keyboard
12-04-2010, 06:22 PM
Kam

- first off, I am not your buddy.

- next, just like you .......wanted or unwanted I'll join any conversation I want to around here.

And finally you have really been pushing the boundaries here lately. I think you were warned earlier today by another mod but I'll make it perfect clear.
You are real close to getting some time off and given your repeated history here it could be a significant one.

Baiting and being insulting to others is just simply not going to be allowed.Maybe I should have put "buddy" in italics. I figured my sarcasm would get across without it. At least other moderators have the decency to PM me. :lol:

And nice job replying to the actual comment, pal.

Motorcat
12-04-2010, 06:33 PM
At least other moderators have the decency to PM me. :lol:

You addressed your comments to me in public so I did the same.

Plus I just want to make sure everyone know we (the mods) are aware of the situation and are addressing it.

-- So as not to disrupt the thread further feel free to PM me any concerns

keyboard
12-04-2010, 06:38 PM
You addressed your comments to me in public so I did the same.
I addressed TB's ability to compete in the AL East in public, so you power trip as a response and think it's the same thing. No need to get into PMs, nothing more to talk to you about.

Motorcat
12-04-2010, 06:48 PM
Get a clue or stay out of the conversation.

This is not addressing TB ability to compete ....... its insulting and baiting for a reply. No power trip involved - thats why you were warned.


With that said lets stay off the thread unless on topic or if you feel the need to respond further just PM me but like you said "no need" cause I really don't want to lock a good thread

Thanks

Apologies everybody.........

I am going to lock this up for a bit while some things are discussed - hopefully we can get back on topic very soon.

heliosj
12-05-2010, 08:44 AM
Unlocked.

b_illin
12-05-2010, 01:25 PM
Tampa has found a way

Ok, so add in sucking for a decade and building up a ridiculous farm full of talent!

b_illin
12-05-2010, 01:27 PM
Kam

- first off, I am not your buddy.

- next, just like you .......wanted or unwanted I'll join any conversation I want to around here.

And finally you have really been pushing the boundaries here lately. I think you were warned earlier today by another mod but I'll make it perfect clear.
You are real close to getting some time off and given your repeated history here it could be a significant one.

Baiting and being insulting to others is just simply not going to be allowed.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/DSN/DSN111/child-flexing-muscles_%7E1502024.jpg
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/14151135/2/istockphoto_14151135-tough-kid-flexing-muscles.jpg
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/DSN/DSN111/child-flexing-muscles_%7E1502024.jpg

dw13
12-05-2010, 01:39 PM
I love how most of you guys call the MLB draft a crapshoot and then proceed to say the only reason the Rays got competitive is because of drafting near the top.

They got there because of drafting well period. Yeah, having the #1 pick helped alot but that's not the end all.

b_illin
12-05-2010, 01:45 PM
I love how most of you guys call the MLB draft a crapshoot and then proceed to say the only reason the Rays got competitive is because of drafting near the top.

They got there because of drafting well period. Yeah, having the #1 pick helped alot but that's not the end all.

It was from good drafting, but look at the number of top picks they had and tell me that didn't help more - Price, Longoria, Upton, etc.

keyboard
12-05-2010, 02:01 PM
I love how most of you guys call the MLB draft a crapshoot and then proceed to say the only reason the Rays got competitive is because of drafting near the top.

They got there because of drafting well period. Yeah, having the #1 pick helped alot but that's not the end all.They made some great moves, no doubt, but a few great moves with no payroll aren't enough to compete in the AL East, otherwise the Jays would have made the playoffs by now.

They would have not been even remotely competitive without those picks, that isn't up for debate.

And I think if the Jays were in the basement as long as the Rays were, the team would have likely been moved. So, you're a GM of a team in a division with the two bigger payrolls in baseball, you cannot put a bad product on the field to build for the future, nor can you spend enough to compete with two other teams...

What do you do? You have to make amazing signings and trades, right? Great. Now ask yourself what players want to play in Canada knowing what kind of chance their team will have in the AL East?

So, what do you do?

dw13
12-05-2010, 02:21 PM
They made some great moves, no doubt, but a few great moves with no payroll aren't enough to compete in the AL East, otherwise the Jays would have made the playoffs by now.

They would have not been even remotely competitive without those picks, that isn't up for debate.

And I think if the Jays were in the basement as long as the Rays were, the team would have likely been moved. So, you're a GM of a team in a division with the two bigger payrolls in baseball, you cannot put a bad product on the field to build for the future, nor can you spend enough to compete with two other teams...

What do you do? You have to make amazing signings and trades, right? Great. Now ask yourself what players want to play in Canada knowing what kind of chance their team will have in the AL East?

So, what do you do?

What I said was not to criticize, make fun or playdown what the Jays do/have done. I was merely saying that the Rays have done very well with FA's, trades and drafts (over then the top picks) to put themselves in very good positions. It's obvious Longo and Price really helped them out but other good moves played into their success.

You simply cannot say the Rays drafting #1 for a long period of time is the sole reason why they are competing with the top of the AL East now. Who wanted to play for the Rays when they sucked? Who wants to play in Tampa indoors and in-front of 100 fans every night the Yanks/Sox are not in town? Joe Madden had a lot to do with making the Rays more appealing as well.

So yes, Longo, Price and Upton play a huge role in the Rays success but how about players like Crawford, Shields and Zobrist who played who roles in the Rays success. As well as highly touted prospects like Hellickson and Wade Davis who weren't first round picks either.

Like I said, my post wasn't to knock the Jays it was more to praise the Rays. They've done alot of things well.

secol
12-05-2010, 03:05 PM
don't forget rescuing carlos pena from the scrap heap

dw13
12-05-2010, 03:08 PM
Sounds like A-Gon and the Sox cannot reach a deal and it could fall through.

keyboard
12-05-2010, 03:18 PM
What I said was not to criticize, make fun or playdown what the Jays do/have done. I was merely saying that the Rays have done very well with FA's, trades and drafts (over then the top picks) to put themselves in very good positions. It's obvious Longo and Price really helped them out but other good moves played into their success.

You simply cannot say the Rays drafting #1 for a long period of time is the sole reason why they are competing with the top of the AL East now. Who wanted to play for the Rays when they sucked? Who wants to play in Tampa indoors and in-front of 100 fans every night the Yanks/Sox are not in town? Joe Madden had a lot to do with making the Rays more appealing as well.

So yes, Longo, Price and Upton play a huge role in the Rays success but how about players like Crawford, Shields and Zobrist who played who roles in the Rays success. As well as highly touted prospects like Hellickson and Wade Davis who weren't first round picks either.

Like I said, my post wasn't to knock the Jays it was more to praise the Rays. They've done alot of things well.Crawford was a draft pick.

Draft: 1999 - 2nd round by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6870

Anyway, not saying you're knocking the Jays, I just use them as a comparison.

Here are trades made by TB:

Víctor Zambrano and Bartolomé for Scott Kazmir and Joselo Diaz
Aubrey Huff and cash for Ben Zobrist and Mitch Talbot
Seth McClung for Grant Balfour
Ty Wigginton and cash for Dan Wheeler
Brendan Harris, Delmon Young* and Jason Pridie for Jason Bartlett, Matt Garza and Eduardo Morlan
Jeff Ridgway for Willy Aybar and Chase Fontaine
Toby Hall, Mark Hendrickson for Dioner Navarro, Jae Seo, Justin Ruggiano
Joyce
Scott Kazmir for Alex Torres, Matt Sweeney, and a PTBNL: Sean Rodriguez
Akinori Iwamura for Jesse Chavez

Here are signings:
Akinori Iwamura 3 years/ $7.7M
Carlos Pena 1 year/ $800K
David Price 6 years/8.5M
Cliff Floyd 1 year/3M
Pat Burrell 2 years/16M
Rafael Soriano 1 year/ $7.25M

And now the draft picks:
Carl Crawford 1999
Rocco Baldelli 2000
B.J. Upton 2002
Delmon Young 2003
Jeff Niemann 2004
Evan Longoria 2006
David Price 2007

So, I just grabbed a random game from the 2008 World Series against PHI, just so we can see how much impact these picks actually had on their lineup.

Iwamura
Crawford (draft pick)
Upton (draft pick)
Pena
Longoria (draft pick)
Navarro
Baldelli (draft pick)
Bartlett (acquired via trade for draft pick)
Price (draft pick)

Well, I think that speaks for itself. Now, I'm ignoring the rotation and bullpen, and maybe I will analyze that later, but for now, I think that lineup is disgustingly influenced by a team that was a piece of shit for a decade.

And let's not forget that all these picks means less of a toll on payroll, which is a huge deal, too.

dw13
12-05-2010, 03:38 PM
I know Crawford was selected, he was in the second round which means other teams had a chance at him as well not just the #1 pick! That furthers my point, they have drafted very well (outside the #1 pick) and that's a huge reason why they've done so well!

Those trades are amazing!

The Rays ran more successfully then the Jays have been recently. It's just a fact. When you draft so well and make the moves they have, you put yourself in position to be good regardless of payroll! (Twins, too)

keyboard
12-05-2010, 03:55 PM
When you draft so well and make the moves they have, you put yourself in position to be good regardless of payroll! (Twins, too)I can't tell if you're purposely missing the point or not anymore.

dw13
12-05-2010, 03:57 PM
I just saw the Berkman to Cards deal. I guess he's going to play full time in the outfield? Interesting. He's still a nice bat in the NL.

boredguy
12-05-2010, 03:58 PM
Crawford was drafted 52nd overall, any team coulda had him with a good amount having 2 or more chances at him so them sucking doesn't have that much to do with drafting him. Baldelli pobably had a negative WAR in 2008 so you could say him being a draft pick there was a negative. Love how you try to include Bartlett as kind of a draft pick, especially when you can't trade draft picks in MLB.

The Rays rotation and bullpen in 2008 had 1 player drafted in the 1st round by the Rays, everyone else was either drafted late (10th round and later) or was acquired by trade/signed as FA.

There's no doubt that having high draft picks helped the Rays, there's no way they could build a team without using the draft. Sucking and getting high picks isn't close to a guarantee of success though or the Pirates, Royals and Orioles would be powerhouses as well. The MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of the four major sports and has more high pick busts then any of the others.

dw13
12-05-2010, 04:00 PM
Crawford was drafted 52nd overall, any team coulda had him with a good amount having 2 or more chances at him so them sucking doesn't have that much to do with drafting him. Baldelli pobably had a negative WAR in 2008 so you could say him being a draft pick there was a negative. Love how you try to include Bartlett as kind of a draft pick, especially when you can't trade draft picks in MLB.

The Rays rotation and bullpen in 2008 had 1 player drafted in the 1st round by the Rays, everyone else was either drafted late (10th round and later) or was acquired by trade/signed as FA.

There's no doubt that having high draft picks helped the Rays, there's no way they could build a team without using the draft. Sucking and getting high picks isn't close to a guarantee of success though or the Pirates, Royals and Orioles would be powerhouses as well. The MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of the four major sports and has more high pick busts then any of the others.

Pretty much what I was getting at.

boredguy
12-05-2010, 04:00 PM
Sounds like A-Gon and the Sox cannot reach a deal and it could fall through.

They should just give him Howards contract, can't see him wanting more then that and he's worth it.

dw13
12-05-2010, 04:04 PM
They should just give him Howards contract, can't see him wanting more then that and he's worth it.

You'd think so. 5/125 was Howards right? I've heard the Sox have offered 6/125 and he wants Teixeira numbers. I also thought the Sox would still take the deal and then keep talking a contract with him... but sounds like they won't do that.

keyboard
12-05-2010, 04:13 PM
Crawford was drafted 52nd overall, any team coulda had him with a good amount having 2 or more chances at him so them sucking doesn't have that much to do with drafting him. Baldelli pobably had a negative WAR in 2008 so you could say him being a draft pick there was a negative. Love how you try to include Bartlett as kind of a draft pick, especially when you can't trade draft picks in MLB.

The Rays rotation and bullpen in 2008 had 1 player drafted in the 1st round by the Rays, everyone else was either drafted late (10th round and later) or was acquired by trade/signed as FA.

There's no doubt that having high draft picks helped the Rays, there's no way they could build a team without using the draft. Sucking and getting high picks isn't close to a guarantee of success though or the Pirates, Royals and Orioles would be powerhouses as well. The MLB draft is the biggest crapshoot of the four major sports and has more high pick busts then any of the others.
Delmon Young, a first round draft pick was traded for Bartlett and Garza, if you want to get into the rotation discussion. Not sure what's so cryptic about that.

Like I said, luck is a big part of it but putting yourself in a position to get lucky for over a decade is kind of a huge deal.

dw13
12-05-2010, 04:43 PM
Rumor is that Jayson Werth is close to agreeing with the Nats. The Nats are slowly but surely improving. I think they can win some real games next season.

two24four
12-05-2010, 04:49 PM
Rumor is that Jayson Werth is close to agreeing with the Nats. The Nats are slowly but surely improving. I think they can win some real games next season.

Losing Dunn was a big loss though, to bad they could not resign him.

Sounds like a 7 year deal for Werth.

dw13
12-05-2010, 04:59 PM
Losing Dunn was a big loss though, to bad they could not resign him.

Yeah, Werth would help but I agree.

b_illin
12-05-2010, 07:55 PM
That is way too much for werth given the number of years

dw13
12-05-2010, 07:57 PM
That is way too much for werth given the number of years

They are the Nats. Gotta overpay to get talent.

two24four
12-05-2010, 08:02 PM
From reading some things on twitter, I guess alot of MLB GM's/big wigs cant believe they gave him that much.

boredguy
12-05-2010, 08:05 PM
That Werth contract is definitely gonna look ugly in a few years. Overpaying is fine but not for that long on a player who isn't very young.

two24four
12-05-2010, 08:07 PM
So why could they not give Dunn a big contract, or did he want out?

dw13
12-05-2010, 08:19 PM
7 years / $126? That's disgusting.

boredguy
12-05-2010, 09:22 PM
Apparently the A-Gon trade is a done deal now. Don't think there's any extension yet though.

secol
12-06-2010, 12:55 AM
the pirates draft picks are starting to surface......supplemented with some good moves in the next few seasons and i could see them bouncing back.

dw13
12-06-2010, 11:30 AM
Apparently the A-Gon trade is a done deal now. Don't think there's any extension yet though.

Yeah, what I thought would happen did. They accepted the deal and will not talk the deal with him.

b_illin
12-06-2010, 01:51 PM
I think Reynolds is headed to Baltimore for Hernandez and another arm.

phaneuf6
12-06-2010, 03:11 PM
Pretty cheap to get Mark Reynolds..I mean I know his BA sucks and he K's a lot, but he's got a lot of pop.

two24four
12-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Pretty cheap to get Mark Reynolds..I mean I know his BA sucks and he K's a lot, but he's got a lot of pop.

He can mash that's for sure, but you think he K's alot in the NL West, wait till he's going up against CC, Price, Shields, Garza, Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Morrow, Romero, and if the Yanks land Lee, or the Jays land Greinke or someone else.

dw13
12-06-2010, 03:19 PM
He's going to hit 50 at Camden.

two24four
12-06-2010, 03:20 PM
He's going to hit 50 at Camden.

That helps I agree, but on the road in the AL East might hurt him.

He might get K-ed 230-240 times in this divsion.

dw13
12-06-2010, 03:29 PM
That helps I agree, but on the road in the AL East might hurt him.

He might get K-ed 230-240 times in this divsion.

In the NL West he faced the likes of Lincecum, Cain, Ubaldo, Kershaw and Latos. I'd say that's comparable/better then the AL East. Plus he'll be playing in more Pitcher parks.

He's going to K his fairshare but I'm not ready to say anymore then he did with the DBacks, IMO.

eff1ngham
12-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Or Sanchez or Billingsly or Lilly or De La Rosa. There are a lot of K artists in the NL West

dw13
12-06-2010, 03:39 PM
Or Sanchez or Billingsly or Lilly or De La Rosa. There are a lot of K artists in the NL West

Agreed. It'll be a transition for Reynolds but I think he'll deal with it fine. Like I said, I predict 50 HR's for him.

eff1ngham
12-06-2010, 03:43 PM
7 years / $126? That's disgusting.

Yeah. Tulo's extension was 7/$134 I believe (that's in addition to what he already was getting paid, but still). But as someone said when you're a team like the Nats you probably have to overpay to get someone to go there.

Gotta say though, I'm pretty excited about the Rockies signing De La Rosa, and the trade for Jose Lopez. I like out youth options at 2B and 3B, but a guy like Lopez is a nice addition

two24four
12-06-2010, 03:45 PM
With Werth getting that much, wait till Crawford signs with someone.

eff1ngham
12-06-2010, 03:45 PM
Agreed. It'll be a transition for Reynolds but I think he'll deal with it fine. Like I said, I predict 50 HR's for him.

I think so as well. He upgrades from having to play his away games in SF or Petco to playing in Yankee stadium and Fenway, so that's a chance for a lot more homers

keyboard
12-06-2010, 05:55 PM
Depends on his protection in that lineup.

dw13
12-06-2010, 06:07 PM
Depends on his protection in that lineup.

Similar lineups, IMO.

eff1ngham
12-06-2010, 06:33 PM
Agreed. I don't really see Markakis, Jones, Scott, Roberts and Weiters as being that much different from the crew he had around him in Arizona

two24four
12-08-2010, 12:48 PM
Sounds like Carlos Pena is going to sign a one year deal with the Cubs for $10M.

Doctego
12-08-2010, 01:35 PM
Sounds like Carlos Pena is going to sign a one year deal with the Cubs for $10M.

I thought that he already did.

two24four
12-08-2010, 01:40 PM
I thought that he already did.

Yeah it is now, last I heard when I wrote that was that it was a report.

dw13
12-08-2010, 11:41 PM
Confirmed: Red Sox in agreement with Crawford. 7 yrs/142M. First reported by Boston Globe

Really thought that the Angels were going to land him.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:06 AM
Red Sox are going to be much better with A-Gon and Crawford.

Yanks made an offer to Lee today, but wont say for how much, most think it's a 7 year deal. Lee camp is saying they will prob sign with someone by the end of the week.

dw13
12-09-2010, 12:07 AM
Red Sox are going to be much better with A-Gon and Crawford.

Yanks made an offer to Lee today, but wont say for how much, most think it's a 7 year deal. Lee camp is saying they will prob sign with someone by the end of the week.

Would love to see them get Russ Martin. Would really round that team up. Great defensively and has offensive potential.

I can't imagine the Yanks losing out on Lee now.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Would love to see them get Russ Martin. Would really round that team up. Great defensively and has offensive potential.

I can't imagine the Yanks losing out on Lee now.

Look for the Yanks to go after Scott Downs as well, lefty out of the pen for players like A-Gon and Crawford.

dw13
12-09-2010, 12:11 AM
Look for the Yanks to go after Scott Downs as well, lefty out of the pen for players like A-Gon and Crawford.

Good point. If anything the Sox will be weaker against lefties.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:13 AM
I wonder what this means for Ellsbury.

Gambit
12-09-2010, 12:15 AM
Alright I don't pay much attention to baseball anymore, but deep down I'm still a Red Sox fan. So give me a good comparison here, fellas...The Red Sox signing Crawford and Gonzalez is like what NHL team signing which two players? Try to put that one together for me, so I can understand its significance.

dw13
12-09-2010, 12:21 AM
I wonder what this means for Ellsbury.

Nothing. He stays in center-field.

Gambit: Both are good moves. I have no idea how to compare it though. Two allstars though

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:25 AM
Yeah that's tough to compare the two sports like that, you will like it though, Boston is ALOT better now then when the season ended.

How crazy would it be if they landed Lee, haha, but I doubt they have the money for that now.

dw13
12-09-2010, 12:37 AM
Yeah that's tough to compare the two sports like that, you will like it though, Boston is ALOT better now then when the season ended.

How crazy would it be if they landed Lee, haha, but I doubt they have the money for that now.

John Henry needs to put some of this money he's blowing into Liverpool :lol:

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:44 AM
Sox lineup could look something like this.

Batting order

LF Crawford- Bats left.
2B Pedroia
3B Youkilis
1B Gonzalez- Bats left.
DH Ortiz- Bats left
RF Drew
SS Scutaro
C Veritek/Saltalmacchia
CF Ellsbury- Bats left.

Wow, scary.

Gambit
12-09-2010, 12:46 AM
Eh....it doesn't have to be dead on or anything, nobody is going to hold you to this..lol Just try to think of something. Sheesh!! ;)

for example:

The Miami Heat signing Lebron & Bosh is like the Washington Capitals signing Crosby + Malkin.

dw13
12-09-2010, 12:49 AM
Eh....it doesn't have to be dead on or anything, nobody is going to hold you to this..lol Just try to think of something. Sheesh!! ;)

for example:

The Miami Heat signing Lebron & Bosh is like the Washington Capitals signing Crosby + Malkin.

Crawford is like getting Rick Nash and A-Gon is like getting Zach Parise.

Have at it.

Doctego
12-09-2010, 07:30 AM
Confirmed: Red Sox in agreement with Crawford. 7 yrs/142M. First reported by Boston Globe

Really thought that the Angels were going to land him.

So did I. I like him but that's a lot of money. He won't hit a ton of HR and I am interested in seeing how his speed ages. Either way, they had the money to burn and he makes that lineup even better.


Red Sox are going to be much better with A-Gon and Crawford.

Yanks made an offer to Lee today, but wont say for how much, most think it's a 7 year deal. Lee camp is saying they will prob sign with someone by the end of the week.

I heard 6 years was their offer but you never know with these things.


Would love to see them get Russ Martin. Would really round that team up. Great defensively and has offensive potential.

I can't imagine the Yanks losing out on Lee now.

It's all rumors at this point but I have heard about Yankee interest in Martin as well. I can't find the article but I remember hearing that the Yankees told Posada that he won't be catching much if at all this season. He will be the regular DH until he comes off the books after the season. I can't see the Yankees going with Cervelli/Montero behind the plate.


Look for the Yanks to go after Scott Downs as well, lefty out of the pen for players like A-Gon and Crawford.

I would love to see them get him but the compensation rules really need to be changed. No way should a signing team lose a 1st rounder for a MR.


Eh....it doesn't have to be dead on or anything, nobody is going to hold you to this..lol Just try to think of something. Sheesh!! ;)

for example:

The Miami Heat signing Lebron & Bosh is like the Washington Capitals signing Crosby + Malkin.

No. It's hard enough to compare, let alone over 2 sports. The Heat had shit before they signed those players. Washington already has a nice team. Using dawinna's players, you could equate them to signing with the Caps. Not the best players but excellent players going to an already contending team.

b_illin
12-09-2010, 11:01 AM
Sox lineup could look something like this.

Batting order

LF Crawford- Bats left.
2B Pedroia
3B Youkilis
1B Gonzalez- Bats left.
DH Ortiz- Bats left
RF Drew
SS Scutaro
C Veritek/Saltalmacchia
CF Ellsbury- Bats left.

Wow, scary.

I know it's playing the same broken record, but man it's tough trying to compete in the AL East!

Gambit
12-09-2010, 11:40 AM
No. It's hard enough to compare, let alone over 2 sports. The Heat had shit before they signed those players.

Dwayne Wade is shit?

dw13
12-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Dwayne Wade is shit?

Dorrell Wright, Jermaine O'Neal, Rafer Alston, Jamaal Magloire and Chris Quinn are shit.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:14 PM
It's all rumors at this point but I have heard about Yankee interest in Martin as well. I can't find the article but I remember hearing that the Yankees told Posada that he won't be catching much if at all this season. He will be the regular DH until he comes off the books after the season. I can't see the Yankees going with Cervelli/Montero behind the plate.


Martin has said he wants to play with one of the Red Sox, Yanks or Jays to be closer to home, which is in Toronto, so I guess we will find out soon where he signs.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:17 PM
I heard 6 years was their offer but you never know with these things.


I read that the Red Sox got into the Lee talks without ever even wanting to sign him, just to drive the price up knowing the Yanks would have to offer 7 years + more $$$$. I read that they made an offer for 7 years, but for less money knowing Lee would not take that offer, but once the Yanks would find out that a team made an offer for 7 years they would have to do the same.

dw13
12-09-2010, 12:19 PM
Russ Martin is a great fit with the Yanks or Sox. Great locker room guy, really great defensive and has the upside at the plate.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:30 PM
Alot of people are reporting that Texas is heading out to meet with Lee today to offer him a better contract, more then then the five year offer they made already.

Also both the Yanks and Red Sox are going hard after Martin.

keyboard
12-09-2010, 12:32 PM
That BOS lineup is as nasty as their rotation is shitty.

phaneuf6
12-09-2010, 12:40 PM
That BOS lineup is as nasty as their rotation is shitty.

Their rotation will be better than it was last year IMO. Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K? I'd take it.

two24four
12-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Their rotation will be better than it was last year IMO. Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K? I'd take it.

Agreed, they are a scary team all round now IMO, even more so if they land Martin.

keyboard
12-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Their rotation will be better than it was last year IMO. Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K? I'd take it.
Beckett is old and busted, Lackey is fat and overrated, and Matsuzaka is a bum. That rotation is in trouble, bank on it.

nyrblue2
12-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Martin has said he wants to play with one of the Red Sox, Yanks or Jays to be closer to home, which is in Toronto, so I guess we will find out soon where he signs.
The Mets can sign him and send him to AAA Buffalo.

b_illin
12-09-2010, 12:56 PM
MLB needs a salary cap.

two24four
12-09-2010, 01:00 PM
MLB needs a salary cap.

I dont see it anytime soon.

Maybe DET can move to the AL East and Toronto can move to the AL Central :D

b_illin
12-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I dont see it anytime soon.

Maybe DET can move to the AL East and Toronto can move to the AL Central :D

I don't either...and I'm not just saying that as a TOR fan in the AL East. This isn't good for the sport or the league. The longer this continues, the more the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. brands continue to grow...to the point where they will be able to dictate the terms to the league sorta like we are about to see with European Football/Soccer.

As a fan in TOR (or a fan in KC...or MIN...or SD...etc) it sucks knowing that basically my team might maybe make the playoffs every 5-10 yrs if they draft really well, etc. and catch lightning in a bottle where as the Yanks, BoSox, etc. will keep making it the postseason because they can outspend everyone. $20mm/yr, 7-yr contracts are being handed out like halloween candy it seems and without a cap, I simply cannot see how MLB can continue to be 'competitive' in this kind of landscape. On top of this, when dudes are making that kind of money, I feel like I have nothing at all in common with them as a fan. I realize this sounds silly, but seriously, it's unbelievable how much money these fuckers make...why would I want to support that by buying a ticket to an MLB game knowing I am just supporting a fucked up system that will only get less competitive with every dollar I spend!

(end rant)

dw13
12-09-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't either...and I'm not just saying that as a TOR fan in the AL East. This isn't good for the sport or the league. The longer this continues, the more the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. brands continue to grow...to the point where they will be able to dictate the terms to the league sorta like we are about to see with European Football/Soccer.

As a fan in TOR (or a fan in KC...or MIN...or SD...etc) it sucks knowing that basically my team might maybe make the playoffs every 5-10 yrs if they draft really well, etc. and catch lightning in a bottle where as the Yanks, BoSox, etc. will keep making it the postseason because they can outspend everyone. $20mm/yr, 7-yr contracts are being handed out like halloween candy it seems and without a cap, I simply cannot see how MLB can continue to be 'competitive' in this kind of landscape. On top of this, when dudes are making that kind of money, I feel like I have nothing at all in common with them as a fan. I realize this sounds silly, but seriously, it's unbelievable how much money these fuckers make...why would I want to support that by buying a ticket to an MLB game knowing I am just supporting a fucked up system that will only get less competitive with every dollar I spend!

(end rant)

MLB makes all their money from the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies. They are happy when they dominate.

This year along with the Rays, Cardinals, Rockies and Astros of just a few years back are proof that you can win in Baseball without being one of the traditional powers. The AL East might be another monster but it's not out of the realm of possibilities to build a team and an organization that can compete in the East on a limited budget (must be willing to spend though).

two24four
12-09-2010, 03:10 PM
One good thing to think about, just look at how well and how far Texas got this season, and who they beat in the playoffs with the pay roll they had this past season, there pay roll was know near the Yanks, not even close.

keyboard
12-09-2010, 03:15 PM
The AL East might be another monster but it's not out of the realm of possibilities to build a team and an organization that can compete in the East on a limited budget (must be willing to spend though).So you either try to spend on the same levels with teams that laugh off luxury tax or you try to get a lot of draft picks and hope they pan out.

And if they do pan out, you hope you make the playoffs.

And if you do make the playoffs, you hope you make the World Series.

And if you do make the World Series, you hope you don't lose to the Phillies.

And if you do lose to the Phillies, you hope all your players don't run off and sign with teams that laugh off luxury tax.

And if you do lose your players to those teams, you hope your fans stick around for another decade of sucking balls.

The life of a team in the AL East not named BOS or NYY. :lol:

b_illin
12-09-2010, 06:02 PM
MLB makes all their money from the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies. They are happy when they dominate.

This year along with the Rays, Cardinals, Rockies and Astros of just a few years back are proof that you can win in Baseball without being one of the traditional powers. The AL East might be another monster but it's not out of the realm of possibilities to build a team and an organization that can compete in the East on a limited budget (must be willing to spend though).

It helps being in the AL West or NL West, etc.

And I realize they make all their money from those teams and I'm sure they're happy with all the money they bring in, but if salaries continue to increase the way they are, this league will not be anywhere near as competitive in future and that may drive a lot of fans away. I think the NFL has shown how much better parity is amongst the teams.


So you either try to spend on the same levels with teams that laugh off luxury tax or you try to get a lot of draft picks and hope they pan out.

And if they do pan out, you hope you make the playoffs.

And if you do make the playoffs, you hope you make the World Series.

And if you do make the World Series, you hope you don't lose to the Phillies.

And if you do lose to the Phillies, you hope all your players don't run off and sign with teams that laugh off luxury tax.

And if you do lose your players to those teams, you hope your fans stick around for another decade of sucking balls.

The life of a team in the AL East not named BOS or NYY. :lol:

Pretty much! :(

keyboard
12-09-2010, 06:39 PM
I'm not sure how much salary caps have to do with it, but the NBA and NFL both have lockouts looming.

two24four
12-10-2010, 12:44 AM
Sounds like Texas had a good meeting with Lee today, they even upped there offer for him, and said they felt really good leaving the meeting.

How great would it be if the Yanks lost out on both Crawford and Lee.

Doctego
12-10-2010, 07:27 AM
Sounds like Texas had a good meeting with Lee today, they even upped there offer for him, and said they felt really good leaving the meeting.

How great would it be if the Yanks lost out on both Crawford and Lee.

They really didn't need or want Crawford. Lee would be a huge loss, though.

dw13
12-10-2010, 12:40 PM
Red Sox needs to stop spending. The owners have a football club they need to take care of. :D

two24four
12-10-2010, 01:11 PM
Sounds like the Red Sox are trying to sign Scott Downs.

Also Russell Martin is going over offers from four teams, Red Sox, Yanks, Blue Jays and know one seems to know who the 4th team is, most seem to think the Red Sox are the front runners right now.

eff1ngham
12-10-2010, 02:58 PM
Colorado was talking to Martin for a little while. Not sure if they're still interested or if they've moved on to their other C targets

two24four
12-10-2010, 03:48 PM
Colorado was talking to Martin for a little while. Not sure if they're still interested or if they've moved on to their other C targets

Martin has said he wants to be closer to his home in the East, which is in Toronto.

two24four
12-10-2010, 09:42 PM
Scott Downs signed with the LAAAAA.

two24four
12-13-2010, 10:29 PM
Alot of talk tonight is that Lee might be signing with Philly before long, that would be crazy.

Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Oswalt

:eek:

phaneuf6
12-14-2010, 12:22 AM
Lee confirmed to Phillies, 100 over 5.

moans
12-14-2010, 12:22 AM
Crazy

dw13
12-14-2010, 12:31 AM
:lol:

Any whispers that Hamels could be out of town? I can't imagine them keeping all 4... but I guess it's Philly.

What a fucking steal. Even more so that it's a 5 year deal!

phaneuf6
12-14-2010, 12:33 AM
Phillies pitching > Boston hitting.

two24four
12-14-2010, 12:37 AM
Buster Onley was just on ESPN radio, he said Lee turned down $154M from the Yanks to sign in Philly for $100M

I love that the Yanks missed out on both Crawford and Lee, look for the Yanks to do what ever they can now to land Greinke.

dw13
12-14-2010, 12:39 AM
Buster Onley was just on ESPN radio, he said Lee turned down $154M from the Yanks to sign in Philly.

I love that the Yanks missed out on both Crawford and Lee, look for the Yanks to do what ever they can now to land Greinke.

The Yanks did not want Crawford, but they definitely missed out on Lee. That's tough.

two24four
12-14-2010, 12:41 AM
Word is Philly is trying to trade Joe Blanton now to free up some $$$$, I think they plan on going with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt.

FlyGuy78
12-14-2010, 07:36 AM
Word is Philly is trying to trade Joe Blanton now to free up some $$$$, I think they plan on going with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt.

God Bless the Phillies organization!! We should have never let him go in the first place. Good to see you back Cliff! Is that not one of the sickest rotations you have ever seen on a team?!? :D

Motorcat
12-14-2010, 08:54 AM
Lee is a Philly .......

Lee,Oswalt,Halladay and Hamels - thats about as good as it gets.

Season is over before spring training gets here

Guess the Braves will be playing for the wildcard - :blah:

dw13
12-14-2010, 10:55 AM
Sounds like the Sox are going to help out the Phillies and take Blanton.

They're also on the verge of Russ Martin.

b_illin
12-14-2010, 11:28 AM
Word is Philly is trying to trade Joe Blanton now to free up some $$$$, I think they plan on going with Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt.

I wonder if they'd ever consider a 4-man rotation :evilgrin:

two24four
12-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Philly has Kyle Kendrick who can be the 5th starter.

Sounds like the Yanks are close to signing Russell Martin.

two24four
12-14-2010, 01:00 PM
Also I read Overbay is close to signing with the Pirates.

phaneuf6
12-14-2010, 02:17 PM
Matsui to the A's.

two24four
12-14-2010, 02:21 PM
Matsui to the A's.

Saw that, one year $4.25M. I guess he likes the warm weather out west.

Also Overbay is now a done deal, he signed with the Pirates.

Matt Stairs signed with the Nats.

secol
12-14-2010, 02:26 PM
Philly has Kyle Kendrick who can be the 5th starter.

Sounds like the Yanks are close to signing Russell Martin.
you mean he wasn't traded for kobayashi iwamura? :lol:

two24four
12-14-2010, 02:31 PM
you mean he wasn't traded for kobayashi iwamura? :lol:

haha, that was great.

For those of you who did not see this....

YouTube - Kyle Kendrick traded to Japan

two24four
12-14-2010, 06:53 PM
Yanks signed Mark Prior today to a minor league deal.

A's signed Rich Harden.

two24four
12-15-2010, 01:29 PM
Lee said one of the reasons he picked Philly is because he feels he has a better chance at winning there, I wonder how the Yanks feel about that, haha.

b_illin
12-15-2010, 01:56 PM
I know Doc would never make a fuss, but why is Lee worth $4mm/yr (edit) more than him?? (that's a lot of inflation)

dw13
12-15-2010, 02:12 PM
I know Doc would never make a fuss, but why is Lee worth $4mm/yr than him?? (that's a lot of inflation)

The price of players always go up, year after year. Lee wanted to be the highest paid pitcher.

Snipes16
12-15-2010, 02:15 PM
I know Doc would never make a fuss, but why is Lee worth $4mm/yr than him?? (that's a lot of inflation)

He's not worth more but when there were 2 other teams offering more dough you could argue that Lee actually took a discount

b_illin
12-15-2010, 02:28 PM
The price of players always go up, year after year. Lee wanted to be the highest paid pitcher.

That's 20% inflation yr/yr though! :eek:

boredguy
12-15-2010, 02:41 PM
It's not even inflation as much as there was a bidding war. If Doc had waited till he was a FA he would've gotten more as well.

dw13
12-15-2010, 02:43 PM
That's 20% inflation yr/yr though! :eek:

No it's not. Compare it to CC's contract, not Doc's. Doc never hit the market.

two24four
12-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Red Sox signed Bobby Jenks.

secol
12-16-2010, 03:43 PM
kinda makes me think they're moving papelbon

b_illin
12-16-2010, 04:09 PM
Bard is the closer going forward in BOS. Isn't Papelbon a FA?

phaneuf6
12-16-2010, 04:35 PM
Bard is the closer going forward in BOS. Isn't Papelbon a FA?

No.

I think it'll be..

7th: Jenks
8th: Bard
9th: Papelbon

dw13
12-16-2010, 04:50 PM
No.

I think it'll be..

7th: Jenks
8th: Bard
9th: Papelbon

:lol:

Jenks out of the pen in the 7th?

I think they're done with Papelbon and just got their insurance for Bard with Jenks. I'll be stunned if Jenks works out of the pen (especially before the 8th) and that's just a recipe for failure, IMO.

Maybe Snipers will come in here and help us out.

keyboard
12-16-2010, 04:57 PM
Jenks is done, he'll be working mop up duty in no time, the fat fuck.

two24four
12-16-2010, 06:49 PM
I think if they can trade Papelbon they will, because Bard will be there closer before long.

b_illin
12-16-2010, 09:13 PM
No.

I think it'll be..

7th: Jenks
8th: Bard
9th: Papelbon

Wait and see

secol
12-16-2010, 10:40 PM
that was why i thought papelbon was gonna be moved.......

Doctego
12-16-2010, 11:52 PM
kinda makes me think they're moving papelbon

I bet they're trying. Not sure that anyone will take that contract, though, especially with his meltdowns last season.

keyboard
12-17-2010, 02:22 AM
And his stupid face.

http://popculturehasaids.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/papelbon7.jpg

Doctego
12-17-2010, 08:42 AM
And his stupid face.

http://popculturehasaids.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/papelbon7.jpg

Agreed. And that other stupid face that makes him look like he's blowing smoke rings.

two24four
12-17-2010, 08:21 PM
Zack Greinke has asked for a trade out of KC.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Zack-Greinke-asks-Kansas-City-Royals-for-trade-fires-agent-121710

Winger72
12-19-2010, 09:34 AM
Zack Greinke has asked for a trade out of KC.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Zack-Greinke-asks-Kansas-City-Royals-for-trade-fires-agent-121710

Looks like he's going to Milwaukee.

dw13
12-19-2010, 10:31 AM
Good trade for both sides. The Brew Crew have a nice roto now.

two24four
12-19-2010, 11:55 AM
Nice trade for the Brewers.

Most thought AA was trying to block the Brewers from getting Grenike by trading for Lawrie.

dw13
12-19-2010, 12:06 PM
Nice trade for the Brewers.

Most thought AA was trying to block the Brewers from getting Grenike by trading for Lawrie.

What? What do the Jays have to do with the Brewers? Besides both wanting Greinke?

phaneuf6
12-19-2010, 12:07 PM
What? What do the Jays have to do with the Brewers? Besides both wanting Greinke?

KC was rumored to have interest in Lawrie.

dw13
12-19-2010, 12:07 PM
KC was rumored to have interest in Lawrie.

But why would your GM be trying to block the Brewers from making a move? Because the Jays wanted Greinke as well?

phaneuf6
12-19-2010, 12:10 PM
But why would your GM be trying to block the Brewers from making a move? Because the Jays wanted Greinke as well?

Oh, can't answer that, lol.

Update that goddamn commissioners note ps.

two24four
12-19-2010, 12:18 PM
But why would your GM be trying to block the Brewers from making a move? Because the Jays wanted Greinke as well?

It was in a Toronto paper the other day saying the Jays might have picked up Lawrie because KC wanted him pretty bad if they where going to trade with the Brewers, and yes the rumor was AA might have been trying to block the Brewers from getting Greinke, Jays wanted him pretty bad, if all this is true, then that went for not.

dw13
12-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Just found it interesting they'd try to block a move with the Brewers who have nothing to do with the Jays, not even in the same league. I guess I understand, though.

Conor, I'm doing it now. Sorry.

b_illin
12-19-2010, 12:55 PM
What? What do the Jays have to do with the Brewers? Besides both wanting Greinke?

A) the Brewers needed a solid arm and they got one in Marcum which made many think MIL might not need Greinke any more.
B) KC had a hard-on for Lawrie apparently so the thought was AA was taking MIL out of the running taking the prospect KC wanted and in providing MIL with that solid arm.

Just found it interesting they'd try to block a move with the Brewers who have nothing to do with the Jays, not even in the same league. I guess I understand, though.

Conor, I'm doing it now. Sorry.

Block is a strong word...it was more like influence MIL's level of interest

keyboard
12-19-2010, 01:07 PM
Very nice 1-2-3 for MIL now. Team just became legitimate contenders.

two24four
12-27-2010, 01:17 PM
Brandon Webb signed with the Rangers.

eff1ngham
01-03-2011, 11:22 AM
Sounds like Beltre and the Rangers are close to a deal. Somewhere around 6 years and 90 mil +

dw13
01-03-2011, 11:36 AM
Sounds like Beltre and the Rangers are close to a deal. Somewhere around 6 years and 90 mil +

Overrated!

eff1ngham
01-03-2011, 11:54 AM
His two best seasons in terms of average, homers and RBIs were right before he became a free agent right? I don't necessarily believe the "contract year" argument, but he would certainly be the definition of a "contract year player" :lol:

b_illin
01-03-2011, 12:49 PM
Sounds like Beltre and the Rangers are close to a deal. Somewhere around 6 years and 90 mil +

Wow, 6 years...think they'll regret that one??

two24four
01-03-2011, 12:52 PM
Wow, 6 years...think they'll regret that one??

Yeah I would think so.

I think they are trying to make there fans happy by signing someone because they lost Lee, they might want to find some SP.

phaneuf6
01-03-2011, 01:00 PM
Derek Lee to the Orioles a couple days ago for those who missed it.

eff1ngham
01-03-2011, 05:32 PM
Sounds like cargo is close to signing a 7 year 80 mil extension with the Rockies

boredguy
01-04-2011, 07:56 AM
His two best seasons in terms of average, homers and RBIs were right before he became a free agent right? I don't necessarily believe the "contract year" argument, but he would certainly be the definition of a "contract year player" :lol:

He also put up the worst stats of his career, minus his rookie year, in a contract year. His last season in LA was definitely a huge aberration but his main problem after that was playing in Seattle. His home/away splits are hugely favoured to away. I can see him putting up pretty similar numbers to last season minus about 30 points of avg. I'm surprised Texas is willing to go to 6 years though.

keyboard
01-04-2011, 01:33 PM
Beltre to me was one of the more obvious steroid users.

dw13
01-04-2011, 01:34 PM
Beltre to me was one of the more obvious steroid users.

He had one season where his stats really rose, and that was a contract year. The rest of the seasons he's always between 20-30 HR's, right around the same slugging % as well.

two24four
01-04-2011, 03:07 PM
Kevin Gregg signed a two year deal with the O's.

keyboard
01-04-2011, 03:41 PM
Awesome. It'll be nice watching the Jays maul that shitballer.

b_illin
01-07-2011, 04:46 PM
Garza to the Cubs


CHICAGO - The Chicago Cubs have a tentative trade in place to obtain right-hander Matt Garza from the Tampa Bay Rays, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
The Rays would receive outfielder Sam Fuld, minor league outfielder Brandon Guyer and several other prospects for Garza, who would be sent to Chicago along with prospects, the two people told The Associated Press on Friday.
They spoke on condition of anonymity because the trade was not yet final. It is subject to physicals for some players and approval of medical records for others, the two people said.
The 27-year-old Garza pitched a no-hitter against Detroit last season, when he went 15-10 with a 3.91 ERA. He spent his first two major league seasons with the Twins and the last three with the Rays.
Garza has a 42-44 career record with a 3.97 ERA. He beat Boston twice in the 2008 AL championship series to help the Rays advance to their first World Series, where they lost to the Phillies.
Garza would give the Cubs a top-of-the-rotation starter and join a rotation that also includes Carlos Zambrano and Canadian Ryan Dempster.
He follows several other stars in leaving Tampa Bay, including first baseman Carlos Pena, who agreed to a $10 million, one-year contract with the Cubs. Others who departed the Rays include outfielder Carl Crawford, who received a $142-million, seven-year contract from Boston, and reliever Joaquin Benoit, who got a $16.5-million, three-year deal with Detroit.

two24four
01-14-2011, 12:04 AM
Sounds like Rafael Soriano is signing with the Yanks.

two24four
01-18-2011, 01:26 PM
Gil Meche called it a career today.

keyboard
01-18-2011, 01:55 PM
Gil Meche called it a career today.
What a sack of shit he was.

secol
01-19-2011, 12:38 AM
he had a great year or two

dw13
01-19-2011, 01:21 AM
he had a great year or two

:lol:

Doctego
01-19-2011, 11:01 AM
What a sack of shit he was.

Maybe, maybe not. I do respect him much more for walking away, though.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/18/2593700/money-meche-have-been-linked-throughout.html

two24four
01-19-2011, 11:06 AM
Maybe, maybe not. I do respect him much more for walking away, though.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/18/2593700/money-meche-have-been-linked-throughout.html

Same here, good for him for giving back the $12M that was owed to him this season.

Doctego
01-19-2011, 11:25 AM
I love that Cashman told Pettitte "don't 'Brett Favre' us".

keyboard
01-19-2011, 12:16 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I do respect him much more for walking away, though.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/01/18/2593700/money-meche-have-been-linked-throughout.html
Can't respect a guy who played the game to not win.

b_illin
01-19-2011, 12:28 PM
^ I feel that way as well. Nice gesture to forgo that $12mm, but given that he made $43mm already coasting with the Royals, it's hard to get my full respect.

Doctego
01-19-2011, 03:58 PM
Can't respect a guy who played the game to not win.

How do you figure??

dw13
01-19-2011, 04:53 PM
How do you figure??

I guess taking money to play for the Royals instantly means he wasn't playing the game to win.

keyboard
01-19-2011, 04:54 PM
How do you figure??
Signed with a low exposure team because he couldn't handle the pressure of a competitive environment. Pretty much the definition of a loser.

phaneuf6
01-19-2011, 04:58 PM
I find it hard to call anybody who played their sport professionally and made a living out of it, a loser.

boredguy
01-19-2011, 05:08 PM
^ I feel that way as well. Nice gesture to forgo that $12mm, but given that he made $43mm already coasting with the Royals, it's hard to get my full respect.

Coasting? How do you know how much effort he put into the job. He was actually a pretty good pitcher for the Royals till he got injured, was a top 20 pitcher in war in 2007 and top 15 in 2008. Then he got injured and he couldn't recover well enough to play decent ball which is why he retired now. While he mighta been overpaid i don't see how it's his fault the Royals gave him that contract.

boredguy
01-19-2011, 05:10 PM
Signed with a low exposure team because he couldn't handle the pressure of a competitive environment. Pretty much the definition of a loser.

I would imagine that the Royals tossing more money and years at him then any other team had nothing to do with it.

b_illin
01-19-2011, 05:18 PM
Coasting? How do you know how much effort he put into the job. He was actually a pretty good pitcher for the Royals till he got injured, was a top 20 pitcher in war in 2007 and top 15 in 2008. Then he got injured and he couldn't recover well enough to play decent ball which is why he retired now. While he mighta been overpaid i don't see how it's his fault the Royals gave him that contract.

this


Signed with a low exposure team because he couldn't handle the pressure of a competitive environment.

keyboard
01-19-2011, 05:34 PM
I would imagine that the Royals tossing more money and years at him then any other team had nothing to do with it.
Signing with a team you know for a fact has zero chance to win the World Series for the last good years of your career makes you a loser. I have no idea how anyone is debating this.

Roy Halladay took a pay cut and played with the Jays because he thought they had a chance to make the playoffs and win a World Series in the AL East and that he could help. That's a winner and a heart of a champion.

Meche is a fucking loser.

dw13
01-19-2011, 05:43 PM
You sure do put yourself on some pedestal, Kam.