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dw13
08-25-2009, 07:53 PM
Well it's almost September and its starting to get interesting in Baseball, and for the first time this season I'm extremely stoked for a series. My Dodgers head to Coors to face the steaming Rockies.

Kershaw needs to give us a huge boost in game one, and we definitely need to win the series.

Good luck eff!

two24four
08-25-2009, 10:36 PM
In the AL right now the best race for a playoff spot is the Wild Card spot, with BOS leading the way by 1.5 games over TEX, & TB 3 games back.

The Rockies really are kicking some ass right now thou, & as I type this it's 4-4 LA vs COL in the 9th.

dw13
08-25-2009, 11:13 PM
Pen really let us down tonight, even after we came back in the 9th. Disappointing game, hope it doesn't get the boys down.

eff1ngham
08-25-2009, 11:31 PM
Fun game, that's for sure.

And congrats to EY Jr on his 1st hit :yes:

dw13
08-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Glad to take the Series from the Rockies.

two24four
09-01-2009, 12:11 PM
I like watching teams battle it out for playoff spots, we are not getting alot of that this year...

NY is up 6.5 games on BOS in the AL East.

LAAAA are up 6 games on TEX in the AL West.

Philly is up 7.5 games on ATL in the NL East.

St. Louis is up 10 games on CHI in the NL Central.

Up till a few nights ago the NL West was closer, but now the LAD have there lead up abit again to 5.5 games on SF & COL.

Really the only close battles are in the AL Central DET is only 3.5 games up on Minny, & in the NL Wild Card, COL & SF are tied for it, with ATL only 3 GB, & FLA 4 GB.

IN the AL Wild Card BOS is now up 4 games on TEX, with T-Bay 5 GB.

eff1ngham
09-01-2009, 12:44 PM
Jeez, rough games against SF. Good thing the Rocks have a 10-game homestand coming up, they need to get their hitting back on track. Heh, and this may be the first time I've ever rooted for the Phillies :lol:

eff1ngham
09-25-2009, 07:32 PM
Should be a good close finish for the NL wild card. The Rockies haven't been playing well, and have a big series against the Cards this weekend. The Giants are still hanging in there, and have some big games ahead of them as well. And Atlanta has a chance to throw 7 no-hitters in their next 10 games. It'll probably come down to the last day again

Motorcat
09-25-2009, 10:39 PM
Braves win tonight - the dim hopes are still alive.

dw13
09-26-2009, 09:43 PM
It's funny how quickly I've fallen out of Baseball. Since I've stopped working for the Dodgers, I could really careless.

Motorcat
09-26-2009, 10:49 PM
Braves win - Rockies lose

Only 2 games back now !

Roy Hinske
09-27-2009, 01:17 PM
Hope the Braves can stay on a roll.

eff1ngham
09-27-2009, 03:34 PM
Well they get 7 guaranteed wins playing the Nationals. That helps

two24four
09-27-2009, 03:45 PM
Ever since football & hockey have started, I can not get into baseball, I'm sure I will once the playoffs start.

eff1ngham
10-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Rocktober!! :D

canuckthug
09-26-2011, 02:24 AM
The AL Wild Card is coming down to the wire... Rays are 1 game back with 3 left. I think Boston will get in but TBay is pulling hard.

dw13
09-26-2011, 02:43 AM
The AL Wild Card is coming down to the wire... Rays are 1 game back with 3 left. I think Boston will get in but TBay is pulling hard.

They're really not. 5-5 over their past 10, playing extremely average baseball. Only difference is the Red Sox have been downright awful. It'll be a good finish.

The team in a Wild Card hunt that's pulling hard is the Cardinals. Playing unreal baseball and closing in on the faltering Braves. That'll be damn interesting.

canuckthug
09-26-2011, 03:10 AM
They're really not. 5-5 over their past 10, playing extremely average baseball. Only difference is the Red Sox have been downright awful. It'll be a good finish.

I couldn't disagree more, the Rays play in the toughest division in baseball.

Point number 2 which should be #1, The Rays had 7 MUST WIN games vs the Red Sox in September and won 6 just to get back in this (3 outta 4 in Boston). Do or die games. TBay are 14-9 this month, only problem, the final 3 games are vs The Yankees...

dw13
09-26-2011, 11:30 AM
They're 14-10 and that's nothing to be going crazy about. This is all about Boston's collapse if Tampa gets in.

canuckthug
09-26-2011, 03:49 PM
I cant deny a possible collapse if the Red Sox fail to make it because on September 3rd they were 9 games ahead of TBay and tied with the Yankees for the AL East. BUT im giving the Rays who are 88-71 which took 6 of 7 against a team they were chasing some credit!

Doctego
09-26-2011, 03:55 PM
I can give the Rays credit but, based on how the Sox have played against everyone else this month, it has to be more about their collapse than anything else.

Snipes16
09-26-2011, 05:15 PM
As bad as it has been for the Sox this month and they are getting killed all over the airways around here, I'm sticking with them especially after Ellsbury's huge HR last night in the 14th.

The Yanks saved the Sox' asses last week by taking 3 of 4 but I have little faith in them beating the Rays once this week with nothing to play for. So if the Rays sweep, then the Sox need to take 2 of 3 vs the O's to force a play in game vs the Rays. They cant lose tonight with Beckett vs Hunter...cant

Speaking of Ellsbury, have you seen his numbers out of the leadoff spot..

.322 AVG - 31 HR's - 103 Ribs - 117 Runs - 208 Hits - .377 OBP - .928 OPS - 38 SB

Verlander my arse

CayugaPosse
09-27-2011, 05:31 AM
As bad as it has been for the Sox this month and they are getting killed all over the airways around here, I'm sticking with them especially after Ellsbury's huge HR last night in the 14th.

The Yanks saved the Sox' asses last week by taking 3 of 4 but I have little faith in them beating the Rays once this week with nothing to play for. So if the Rays sweep, then the Sox need to take 2 of 3 vs the O's to force a play in game vs the Rays. They cant lose tonight with Beckett vs Hunter...cant

They did.

As for Ellsbury, there was a good chunk of the season where this debate started and ended with Jose Bautista. Even until a few weeks ago, I thought he was the guy.

I should say I'm ruling out Verlander for the opposite reason most would. Pitchers are TOO valuable to be in the MVP discussion. If they can win it, they should win it yearly. Yes, they only start one in 5 games, but the average pitcher affects more at bats than an every day player does. The pitcher also has a much, much, bigger impact and control on the outcome in his 1 game every 5 days than position players do in 5 games.

Now I think I might be on the Ellsbury train though. It's a shame the Sox are collapsing because if they lose out, it'll be like David Wright the year of the Mets epic collapse, where no one will vote for him because of what happened down the stretch to his team.

Ellsbury actually leads Bautista in fangraphs WAR now, which I take pretty heavy stock in.

The thing that alarms me about the Red Sox is Terry Francona. I know it's easy to pick on the manager when this is going down, but he's really done a bad job this year.

I know no one expected this power from Jacoby Ellsbury, but when you've seen it, STOP BATTING HIM LEADOFF.

He has his lineup bass ackwards.

Ellsbury and his 31 HR batting leadoff. Dustin Pedroia and his higher OBP, lower BA and less power than Ellsbury batting third. Carl Crawford and his .290 OBP batting 2nd, Marco Scutaro and his reliable as ever .360 OBP batting 9th.

The whole thing is a nightmare.

Doctego
09-27-2011, 07:50 AM
He's panicking now. I don't blame him for trying new things. Crawford has only hit 2nd in 10 games. Boston had the best record in the league for most of the season and is now in the midst of a terrible month. I can't blame that on their batting order, especially when they were winning for so long.

Doctego
09-27-2011, 02:00 PM
I find it interesting that a team that won't sniff the playoffs might have the MVP and CY Young winners. Of course, I am talking about Kershaw and Kemp.

Snipes16
09-27-2011, 04:35 PM
I have a hard time believing this is Framcona's fault. He's way down the food chain in the blame game as far as I'm concerned and no way should he be canned.

You can start with the players first. They were up 9 games over Tampa on Sept 3rd which was when Beckett went down with the ankle. Since that time Francona has had no choice but to trot out nothing but tomato cans after Lester...Lackey, Wake, Miller, Bedard and Weiland. Daniel Bard had a 28 inning scoreless streak from May untill August but in September he has an ERA over 10 and 4 blown holds. Lester and Beckett are a combined 0-5 in their last 5 starts. The Sox also rank 28th in MLB in quality starts this year...and this is the managers fault?

Management gave him no help at the dealine either by picking up Bedard who hadn't pitched in September in over 4 years and lo and behold he got hurt after 2 starts. The only bat they gave him was Connor Jackson and it took all of 3 games to see that he sucks....they also whiffed on 4 of their 5 highest over paid guys this year who combined cost the club 550 million in guaranteed dough.

1) JD Drew - 75 million - this year 4 HR's 23 RBI's
2) Dice K - 100 million - snake eyes
3) Lackey - 84 million - ERA over 8
4) Crawford - 140 million - sounds right for a 7th/8th guy in the order, cant hit.
5) Gonzalez - 150 million - awful September

Cayuga, how can you realistically criticize Francona's decision to bat Ellsbury at the top? 208 hits, 117 runs, .322 Avg, 38 Bags, .377 OBS. Thats exactly what you could only hope for in a leadoff guy who's arguably the fastest guy in the bigs. Dont blame Francona for his 31 knocks, he's right where he should be batting in the order, right in front of Pedroia and Gonzalez.

CayugaPosse
09-27-2011, 07:55 PM
Cayuga, how can you realistically criticize Francona's decision to bat Ellsbury at the top? 208 hits, 117 runs, .322 Avg, 38 Bags, .377 OBS. Thats exactly what you could only hope for in a leadoff guy who's arguably the fastest guy in the bigs. Dont blame Francona for his 31 knocks, he's right where he should be batting in the order, right in front of Pedroia and Gonzalez.

Yes. Yes I can.

This is like the Alfonso Soriano circa-2006 argument again.

Jacoby Ellsbury has been unbelievable, he's hitting the ball everywhere, he's doing it with power we've never before seen.

Just because he's fast doesn't mean he belongs at the top of the order.

Think of it like this, if Albert Pujols were faster than Jacoby Ellsbury, should he lead off for the Cardinals?

Someone who is hitting as well as Ellsbury is has no business at the top of the order assuming you have any adaquete replacements for him up there. They have 2. Marco Scutaro and Dustin Pedroia, both of whom are no slouches on basepaths, work deep into counts and have great bat control, which is also everything you want from a leadoff guy.

Leading him off wastes his hitting so far this year.

Jacoby Ellsbury bases empty : 20 HR and 26 2B
Jacoby Ellsbury runner on base : 11 HR, 20 2B

And that's not skewed based on the fact that he's hitting better with bases empty, his AVG/OBP/SLG and OPS are all way higher with runners on.

He does not belong in the leadoff position.

Frankly I'm surprised I'm saying that because I always thought he was a brilliant leadoff hitter, but this year his game has changed drastically, he's showing power and an ability to hit he never showed before.

Now he's more in lines talent wise with a Matt Kemp or Ryan Braun. Do either of them belong leading off? Kemp even has more SB than Ellsbury.

eff1ngham
09-28-2011, 11:27 AM
I don't know Jacoby Ellsbury personally, and I don't think anyone here does. But their manager does know him, and maybe there's a reason he's not hitting 3rd. Some players, Soriano was one, and Carlos Gonzalez last year was another, would rather hit leadoff than 3rd. Ellsbury is having an amazing season, maybe they don't want to mess with his mojo by moving him down in the order. Personally I'd say "you're a major league hitter, you should be able to hit where I tell you to hit," but things don't always work that way, especially in the middle of the season

dw13
09-28-2011, 12:25 PM
I agree with what you said eff, the whole 'don't want to mess with what is working' type deal. I mean they could experiment with it, but I wouldn't even bother. He's a fine leadoff hitter, clearly. I understand what you're saying though Cayuga.

b_illin
09-28-2011, 12:30 PM
I think Theo's to blame the most, although everyone (Francona, players, etc.) deserves a share of the blame.

Doctego
09-28-2011, 02:48 PM
It's amazing how we tend to 2nd guess situations like this. How about a 1st guess? I don't recall anyone criticizing anyone when Ellsbury was leading off and Boston had the best record in the AL. That happened to be as recent as September 1st.

I don't see the issue here with Ellsbury. When healthy, Boston has a stacked lineup. Who gets moved? Youk? Gonzalez? Ortiz? I know that Youk has been hurt but they have a ton of guys that could hit 3rd. Shit. They were trying to give Ellsbury away last season for a bag of balls.

two24four
09-28-2011, 03:00 PM
Sportsnet in Canada is showing all four games that mean something tonight. Playoffs pretty much start tonight, if they have not for some already.

dw13
09-28-2011, 11:11 PM
:lol:

two24four
09-28-2011, 11:13 PM
WOW, what a night of baseball.

Doctego
09-28-2011, 11:14 PM
What an amazing few minutes.

FlyGuy78
09-28-2011, 11:14 PM
Wow that was an insane night of baseball!

canuckthug
09-28-2011, 11:19 PM
Sportsnet in Canada is showing all four games that mean something tonight.Playoffs pretty much start tonight, if they have not for some already.

Hell Yeah. What an end to a season. Wow. If you dont like that, you dont like Baseball.

tampa Bay down 7-0 early. fast forward to the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs2 strikes, down by 1...

canuckthug
09-28-2011, 11:22 PM
Sorry Boston! You guys have dominated the Sports scene for sometime.. I feel ZERO sympathy for your collapse.

-signed Canuck fan

moans
09-28-2011, 11:38 PM
LOL, collapse complete!

canuckthug
09-28-2011, 11:46 PM
The team in a Wild Card hunt that's pulling hard is the Cardinals. Playing unreal baseball and closing in on the faltering Braves. That'll be damn interesting.

The Braves collapsed just as hard. I believe they were 8.5 games up at one point in September. [King Killah and Motorcat gotta feel that one.] Schedule worked out nicely for the Cards. Braves had Philly (best) while the Cards had the Astros (worst team in baseball). It was 'a little' less dramatic in the NL.. St. Louis got it done, Atlanta faltered. but still crazy day night for baseball to say the least..


all i know is the Tigers play the Yanks on Friday. Verlander vs Sabathia
-The Brewers locked up home field today.
-Not sure about the other matchups.. find out later!

eff1ngham
09-29-2011, 11:44 AM
Awesome night of baseball, I'm hoping the playoffs provide as much excitement each night :beer:

Snipes16
09-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Sorry Boston! You guys have dominated the Sports scene for sometime.. I feel ZERO sympathy for your collapse.

-signed Canuck fan

nobody's looking for any sympathy...we're too busy moving onto Brady's next 4 TD game come this Sunday and hanging some laundry from the rafters next Thursday :lol:

dw13
09-29-2011, 02:39 PM
nobody's looking for any sympathy...we're too busy moving onto Brady's next 4 TD game come this Sunday and hanging some laundry from the rafters next Thursday :lol:

Don't you mean next 4 INT game? :):beer:

two24four
09-30-2011, 08:45 AM
Sounds like Boston and Francona are going to go there own ways.

Not the right move IMO.

He won't be looking for a job for long I would think.

Snipes16
09-30-2011, 08:56 AM
not too shabby 13

although it could be suggested that Marco's villa in Balty this weekend may not exactly be a glassproof structure

canuckthug
10-02-2011, 03:50 AM
Speaking of Ellsbury, have you seen his numbers out of the leadoff spot..

.322 AVG - 31 HR's - 103 Ribs - 117 Runs - 208 Hits - .377 OBP - .928 OPS - 38 SB

Verlander my arse


no love for Curtis Granderson??

136 R , 41 Hr, 119 RBI, 25 SB.

CayugaPosse
10-02-2011, 07:26 AM
It's amazing how we tend to 2nd guess situations like this. How about a 1st guess? I don't recall anyone criticizing anyone when Ellsbury was leading off and Boston had the best record in the AL. That happened to be as recent as September 1st.

I don't see the issue here with Ellsbury. When healthy, Boston has a stacked lineup. Who gets moved? Youk? Gonzalez? Ortiz? I know that Youk has been hurt but they have a ton of guys that could hit 3rd. Shit. They were trying to give Ellsbury away last season for a bag of balls.

I've been complaining about it for a bit, just no reason or outlet to really post it here.

It's also easy to mask it and say "don't recall anyone complaining when they were winning". Well, even if that were the case which it's not in this instance, circumstances change as well. When they were winning, they had Youk/Gonzalez/Ortiz etc going.

The last game of the season they had a middle of the lineup of Ortiz batting third(1 HR 8 RBI in September), Adrian Gonzalez batting 4th, and Ryan Lavarnway batting 5th(who went 0/5 with 9 men left on base). Jacoby Ellsbury who was hitting .358 with 8 HR in September, was leading off.

Ellsbury had an OPS of 1.000 post-all star break. You know how many guys posted an OPS higher than that this year? 2. Miguel Cabrera and Jose Bautista.

For the whole year his OPS only trailed Cabrera, Bautista, Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Matt Kemp, Lance Berkman, David Ortiz, Adrian Gonzalez and Joey Votto.

His SLG% was even higher in the league. Ahead of Adrian Gonzalez.

It's not hard, no one who is hitting the ball that hard belongs leading off for a team. There is certainly something to be said for his ability on the bases(although frankly, this year, he was pretty terrible on them, 39 SB and 15 CS is a horrible ratio).

Even 2nd would work, that's where Granderson hit this year and I have no problem with that.

But you can't have your best hitter for the 2nd half of the season, and main run producer for the 2nd half of the season, keep coming up either to lead off the game, or after the 8/9 hitters.

Obviously this is a minor gripe compared to other complaints about the Red Sox organization this year(especially if the drinking in the clubhouse rumors are true), but I felt like it was noteworthy.