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PMStick
06-20-2009, 07:43 AM
Which of these guys get into The Hall in your opinions?

Forwards
Modano
Jagr
Shanahan
Selanne
Fedorov
Sundin
Roenick
Sakic
Forsberg

Defense
Lidstrom
Pronger

Goalies
Belfour
Hasek

May be way off base but I'm thinking YES to Modano, Jagr, Sakic, Lidstrom, Hasek. Anyone else? Exclusions?

Spartan
06-20-2009, 07:59 AM
Forwards
Modano - YES best US born player
Jagr - Borderline, I'd guess no because he is not well liked.
Shanahan - NO
Selanne - YES, he was incredible when he entered the league.
Fedorov - NO
Sundin - NO, not enough numbers didn't win anything.
Roenick - NO
Sakic - YES
Forsberg - NO

Defense
Lidstrom - Easily
Pronger - YES

Goalies
Belfour - YES
Hasek - Easily

Doctego
06-20-2009, 08:32 AM
Someone like Shanahan really makes us have no idea how this will turn out. He is 11th all-time in goals scored. That alone makes him a tough cut. That said, you need to draw the line at the compiler types. He was a very solid goal scorer in his prime but was he 1 of the best in the NHL over a given period?? Possibly but he doesn't jump out for me. 4 seasons of 40+ goals scored and 2 more at 50+ is nice but he seems to be the poster child for a compiler. 656 goals scored is tough to keep out, though. Oh well.

Doctego
06-20-2009, 08:36 AM
Whether Jagr is liked or not, keeping him out of the HOF would be a travesty. He is 9th all-time in points scored and 1 mediocre season notwithstanding, he left the NHL with a lot of game left.

PMStick
06-20-2009, 08:41 AM
Forwards
Modano - YES best US born player
Jagr - Borderline, I'd guess no because he is not well liked.
Shanahan - NO
Selanne - YES, he was incredible when he entered the league.
Fedorov - NO
Sundin - NO, not enough numbers didn't win anything.
Roenick - NO
Sakic - YES
Forsberg - NO

Defense
Lidstrom - Easily
Pronger - YES

Goalies
Belfour - YES
Hasek - Easily

Good assessment. I was thinking the same thing about Modano, his stats are pretty HOF-average but the fact that he is a U.S. born player and one of those career with one team guys gets him in.

I disagree about Jagr, he dominated the late-90s and came back really strong for the Rangers. Has a cup, a Hart, and has a very high pt total for a guy that shaved two years due to the lockout/Russia.

Selanne kinda flies under the radar having a crazy rookie season in 92-93 when almost everyone else had career years and he did a lot of his best work out west. Great games-to-points ratio.

I don't know about Belfour either.There's not much to go on. The most recent HOF goaltender was Roy who was automatic, Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr were on dynasty teams more recognized for the Cups they won with their teams. The best HOF goalie to compare him with is Tony Esposito and Belfour sizes up pretty well but in a different generation. An interesting year was that 92-93 when scoring was way up Belfours numbers remained solid. Another sleeper.

Motorcat
06-20-2009, 08:49 AM
I like Spartan's list as well.....but NHL marketing has a love affair with Forsberg - I bet money talks and he gets in.

Doctego
06-20-2009, 09:02 AM
I like Spartan's list as well.....but NHL marketing has a love affair with Forsberg - I bet money talks and he gets in.

So, you think that Forsberg gets in and Jagr doesn't?? I can't see any scenario where that happens. They have roughly the same PPG average over their career but Jagr has almost 7 full seasons of games played on him.

phaneuf6
06-20-2009, 11:17 AM
I think you can make an argument for everybody on that list. They're all great players and all deserve to be in there for one reason or another.

b_illin
06-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Which of these guys get into The Hall in your opinions?

Forwards
Modano
Jagr
Shanahan
Selanne
Fedorov
Sundin
Roenick
Sakic
Forsberg

Defense
Lidstrom
Pronger

Goalies
Belfour
Hasek

May be way off base but I'm thinking YES to Modano, Jagr, Sakic, Lidstrom, Hasek. Anyone else? Exclusions?

The other guys are all close maybes I think

PS: Modano being 'the best American-born player' should have no bearing on whether he gets into the HOF - maybe the US HOF, but not the HOF. That's my 2 cents. (does Nik Antropov get in for being the best Kazakhi-born player? A silly argument example, but I think you see my point!)

PPS: Forsberg does not deserve to get in - sorry, but there have been lots of amazing players that had their careers ended early, so I don't see how Forsberg is any different. Sorry Peter!

Dubz
06-20-2009, 12:02 PM
Which of these guys get into The Hall in your opinions?

Forwards
Modano
Jagr
Shanahan
Selanne
Fedorov
Sundin
Roenick
Sakic
Forsberg

Defense
Lidstrom
Pronger

Goalies
Belfour
Hasek

May be way off base but I'm thinking YES to Modano, Jagr, Sakic, Lidstrom, Hasek. Anyone else? Exclusions?

Good or bad example....If Modano is the best US player to ever play hes a shoe-in. B_ its sounds like you are saying there should be NO US born players in the HHOF:eek:

I think Selanne/Belfour squeek in and Shannahan/Pronger are on the edge. Of course Prongs has time left to make his case....there are factors that could be used against him as well.

b_illin
06-20-2009, 12:14 PM
Good or bad example....If Modano is the best US player to ever play hes a shoe-in. B_ its sounds like you are saying there should be NO US born players in the HHOF:eek:

I think Selanne/Belfour squeek in and Shannahan/Pronger are on the edge. Of course Prongs has time left to make his case....there are factors that could be used against him as well.

Not at all. I am saying someone nationality should not influence the decision to induct them as one of the game's greatest players or not.

MrScientist
06-20-2009, 12:21 PM
Forwards
Modano
Jagr
Shanahan
Selanne
Fedorov
Sundin
Roenick
Sakic
Forsberg

Defense
Lidstrom
Pronger

Goalies
Belfour
Hasek

keys2aFranchise
06-20-2009, 01:02 PM
I think you can make an argument for everybody on that list. They're all great players and all deserve to be in there for one reason or another.

agreed.

two24four
06-20-2009, 01:22 PM
Forwards
Modano - YES best US born player
Jagr - Borderline, I'd guess no because he is not well liked.
Shanahan - NO
Selanne - YES, he was incredible when he entered the league.
Fedorov - NO
Sundin - NO, not enough numbers didn't win anything.
Roenick - NO
Sakic - YES
Forsberg - NO

Defense
Lidstrom - Easily
Pronger - YES

Goalies
Belfour - YES
Hasek - Easily

I'm not saying Sundin should get into the HHOF, but what's wrong with his numbers?

Sundin career numbers: Reg season, GP- 1346, G- 564, A- 785, Pts- 1349.....playoffs, GP- 91, G- 38, A- 44, Pts 82.

He's 20th all-time in Goals. 25th all-time in Pts. 32nd all-time in assists (1 assist behind Modano)

phaneuf6
06-20-2009, 01:25 PM
I'm not saying Sundin should get into the HHOF, but what's wrong with his numbers?

Sundin career numbers: Reg season, GP- 1346, G- 564, A- 785, Pts- 1349.....playoffs, GP- 91, G- 38, A- 44, Pts 82.

He's 20th all-time in Goals. 25th all-time in Pts. 32nd all-time in assists (1 assist behind Modano)

Yeah I was going to bring that issue up too.. he was also the first Euro to go first overall if we're using nationality 'achievements' as one of Modano's arguments is.

two24four
06-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Yeah I was going to bring that issue up too.. he was also the first Euro to go first overall if we're using nationality 'achievements' as one of Modano's arguments is.

He was also the Captain for Sweden when they won gold at the Olympics in '06.

As well as the longest serving european Captain of an NHL franchise in league history.

eykwingnut
06-20-2009, 01:50 PM
Forwards
Modano - yes
Jagr - yes
Shanahan - yes
Selanne - no
Fedorov - no
Sundin - borderline
Roenick - yes
Sakic - yes
Forsberg - no

Defense
Lidstrom - yes
Pronger - yes

Goalies
Belfour - yes
Hasek - yes

Doctego
06-20-2009, 02:36 PM
Forwards
Modano - yes
Jagr - yes
Shanahan - yes
Selanne - no
Fedorov - no
Sundin - borderline
Roenick - yes
Sakic - yes
Forsberg - no

Defense
Lidstrom - yes
Pronger - yes

Goalies
Belfour - yes
Hasek - yes

This is all subjective but can you please explain why Roenick gets a YES while Sundin and Selanne are borderline, at best??

Lucca Brazzi
06-20-2009, 03:03 PM
[quote=PMStick;693168]Which of these guys get into The Hall in your opinions?

Forwards
Modano
Jagr
Shanahan
Selanne
Sakic


Defense
Lidstrom
Pronger

Goalies
Hasek

They are all excellent players but I think these guys get in. And I think Belfour will probably go in as well. I don't see Roenick in the Hall. Sundin is borderline, I guess he is kind of "vanilla" and an under the radar superstar and that may delay (or end) his potential induction. Still I like him better than Roenick. Forsberg needed to put in some more time IMO.

Hamsterkill
06-20-2009, 03:04 PM
I think you can make an argument for everybody on that list. They're all great players and all deserve to be in there for one reason or another.
Yeah... I wouldn't be so surprised if that eventually happens.

Hockeyis#1
06-20-2009, 03:04 PM
Someone like Shanahan really makes us have no idea how this will turn out. He is 11th all-time in goals scored. That alone makes him a tough cut. That said, you need to draw the line at the compiler types. He was a very solid goal scorer in his prime but was he 1 of the best in the NHL over a given period?? Possibly but he doesn't jump out for me. 4 seasons of 40+ goals scored and 2 more at 50+ is nice but he seems to be the poster child for a compiler. 656 goals scored is tough to keep out, though. Oh well.

It appears that Doc and I agree about who qualifies for the HHOF and who doesn't. This is more than just 9th all time this and 15th all time that. It's who was the dominating best and who wasn't. As much as I love them, guys like Shanny, Roenick, Selanne and Sundin just aren't in the "best in there generation" argument the way Sakic and Jagr are.

Think of it this way, if you had a fantasy All Time draft with 30 teams in it. Where do you think Jeremy Roenick goes? Late 2nd round....maybe 3rd? Does that sound worthy?



Not at all. I am saying someone nationality should not influence the decision to induct them as one of the game's greatest players or not.

100% agree

I'd say Jagr, Sakic, Lidstrom, and Hasek are all clear cut. Pronger, Fedorov and Forsberg are very, very marginal with Fedorov being the closest.

Dubz
06-20-2009, 05:04 PM
Not at all. I am saying someone nationality should not influence the decision to induct them as one of the game's greatest players or not.

Thats not my point....my point is if there is a US player in the HHOF and Modano is better than them...he is a shoe-in. It is a nationality thing with Modano though. I am not dancing around that. Pretty much just stating the obvious....it is an influence and he will be inducted. I wouldnt cheapen it by mentioning Antropov is all.

alias
06-20-2009, 05:26 PM
Forwards
Modano - yes, as stated earlier, better than other Americans already in the hall
Jagr - yes
Shanahan - no
Selanne - yes
Fedorov - no
Sundin - no, his stats are borderline but no Stanley Cup hurts him here
Roenick - no, just not enough of a standout....unless there's a hall for mouthy fuckers
Sakic - yes
Forsberg - no, if he gets in Lindros gets in and that's not right

Defense
Lidstrom - yes
Pronger - yes

Goalies
Belfour - yes
Hasek - yes

Motorcat
06-20-2009, 07:48 PM
So, you think that Forsberg gets in and Jagr doesn't?? I can't see any scenario where that happens. They have roughly the same PPG average over their career but Jagr has almost 7 full seasons of games played on him.


..... my post was not about merit it was about the money NHL marketing has invested in Forsberg.

phaneuf6
06-20-2009, 10:56 PM
Whats with people saying Sundin's stats aren't there and that having no Cup hurts him? Last time I checked, the Stanley Cup isn't something an individual can win alone..it should have no bearing on a player's HOF prospects.

two24four
06-21-2009, 12:12 AM
Whats with people saying Sundin's stats aren't there and that having no Cup hurts him? Last time I checked, the Stanley Cup isn't something an individual can win alone..it should have no bearing on a player's HOF prospects.

Yeah just ask a guy like Bernie Federko. If he can get in, I dont see why Sundin cant. Sundin has done way more both in the NHL & in International play.

PMStick
06-21-2009, 01:38 AM
Yeah just ask a guy like Bernie Federko. If he can get in, I dont see why Sundin cant. Sundin has done way more both in the NHL & in International play.

I'm glad you brought up Bernie Federko. Looking at his numbers it's hard to understand why he's in...after reading up on the HHOF site, he was inducted as a fan-favorite in STL and for being a respected individual, both taken into serious consideration when voting.

When looking at these "bubble guys" it seems like the HHOF is looking for character or something that stands out. It'll be interesting to see. Thre are so many variables and it is so subjective

I think this speaks for Modano. Guy's spent his whole career with the Min/Dal franchise, won a cup, has better numbers than Federko and is a Yankee. Consistent, stays out of trouble, always competes at the International level, and has maintained good health/attendance.

Whomever said about Roenick gtting picked in the 2nd round of a 30-team fantasy draft brings up a good point. When I think of HOF players I think of guys who dominated. Some of these guys may have been dominating but for not long enough to become Hall-worthy.

Jagr did for quite a few years between PIT and NYR...IN
Sakic has been consistently atop and possesses great leadership...IN
Lidstrom has steadily taken over as a top dman for a long time on a great team...IN
Forsberg won't get in but he did for a short while, maybe two years.
Selanne had the great rookie season and an excellent second tenure with the Ducks but not sustained long enough IMO.
Roenick had a great start to his career and was easily the top guy in NHLPA '93 for Sega Genesis but won't get him enough votes.
Pronger great defenseman that was held high at his position with the Blues through much of the late 90s, he has a 50/50 shot. I wonder how the crap he's been up to with suspensions will impact his candidacy.
Shanahan great at times but not dominant. Sundin the same. Shanny and Sundin have a legitimate chance as guys known not for dominating but for longevity but could easily be grouped with the waiting-room guys like Gilmour and Oates.

Eddie the Eagle's intriguing but I just don't see him getting in. He has played for a lot of good teams which works to your advantage as a goaltender (right Osgood?). He's good, has played a long time, but dominant? I think of guys like Roy, Hasek and Brodeur not EB. I also put Cujo in Belfour's category. Tough one...

b-illin ease up on USA Hockey bro. Our ground freezes less often and there is far less interest in hockey here in the states. Don't think it's a big deal where your from? Watch my man John Candy's Jamaican Bobsledding Team (Cool Runnings). Another extreme example but you know what I mean. Here in CT we worship Chris Drury for growing up in Trumbull, CT and making it in the bigs. Not an easy thing to do.

Doctego
06-21-2009, 01:56 AM
Yeah just ask a guy like Bernie Federko. If he can get in, I dont see why Sundin cant. Sundin has done way more both in the NHL & in International play.

This has nothing to do specifically with whether Federko or Sundin is HOF worthy but I hate it when someone compounds a "mistake" because a "mistake" is already made. I would rather them realize their mistake than make the same 1 again. This is a general thought process and nothing against either of these players personally.

CayugaPosse
06-21-2009, 07:06 AM
Forwards
Modano - No.
Jagr - Obviously.
Shanahan - No.
Selanne - Yes.
Fedorov - No.
Sundin - No.
Roenick - No.
Sakic - Yes.
Forsberg - No.

Defense
Lidstrom - Obviously.
Pronger - No.

Goalies
Belfour - Yes.
Hasek - Obviously.

That.

Doctego
06-21-2009, 08:40 AM
Personally, I think that Pronger has too much hockey left to make a definitive call on him right now. The rest are either done or much closer to it.

phaneuf6
06-21-2009, 12:38 PM
Pronger is a resounding YES in my books. He dominates every game he plays in and its noticeable when he's not on the ice. The only question mark for me are his suspensions.

b_illin
06-21-2009, 01:15 PM
Yeah just ask a guy like Bernie Federko. If he can get in, I dont see why Sundin cant. Sundin has done way more both in the NHL & in International play.

While I don't disagree, getting into the HOF is as much about who else is eligible at that time as it is how well you played, etc. -- there will be a lot of great players eligible in all likelihood around the time Sundin is and that might be what keeps him out.


I'm glad you brought up Bernie Federko. Looking at his numbers it's hard to understand why he's in...after reading up on the HHOF site, he was inducted as a fan-favorite in STL and for being a respected individual, both taken into serious consideration when voting.

When looking at these "bubble guys" it seems like the HHOF is looking for character or something that stands out. It'll be interesting to see. Thre are so many variables and it is so subjective

I think this speaks for Modano. Guy's spent his whole career with the Min/Dal franchise, won a cup, has better numbers than Federko and is a Yankee. Consistent, stays out of trouble, always competes at the International level, and has maintained good health/attendance.

Whomever said about Roenick gtting picked in the 2nd round of a 30-team fantasy draft brings up a good point. When I think of HOF players I think of guys who dominated. Some of these guys may have been dominating but for not long enough to become Hall-worthy.

Jagr did for quite a few years between PIT and NYR...IN
Sakic has been consistently atop and possesses great leadership...IN
Lidstrom has steadily taken over as a top dman for a long time on a great team...IN
Forsberg won't get in but he did for a short while, maybe two years.
Selanne had the great rookie season and an excellent second tenure with the Ducks but not sustained long enough IMO.
Roenick had a great start to his career and was easily the top guy in NHLPA '93 for Sega Genesis but won't get him enough votes.
Pronger great defenseman that was held high at his position with the Blues through much of the late 90s, he has a 50/50 shot. I wonder how the crap he's been up to with suspensions will impact his candidacy.
Shanahan great at times but not dominant. Sundin the same. Shanny and Sundin have a legitimate chance as guys known not for dominating but for longevity but could easily be grouped with the waiting-room guys like Gilmour and Oates.

Eddie the Eagle's intriguing but I just don't see him getting in. He has played for a lot of good teams which works to your advantage as a goaltender (right Osgood?). He's good, has played a long time, but dominant? I think of guys like Roy, Hasek and Brodeur not EB. I also put Cujo in Belfour's category. Tough one...

b-illin ease up on USA Hockey bro. Our ground freezes less often and there is far less interest in hockey here in the states. Don't think it's a big deal where your from? Watch my man John Candy's Jamaican Bobsledding Team (Cool Runnings). Another extreme example but you know what I mean. Here in CT we worship Chris Drury for growing up in Trumbull, CT and making it in the bigs. Not an easy thing to do.

Holy shit guys, I am not giving USA hockey shit, I simply am saying that someone's nationality should not play into the decision making process that decided if they get in or not. That's it, nothing more.

PS: then I guess Drury should easily get into the Conn. HOF. I fail to see how where someone comes from should influence whether they are good enough to get in. Should Modano get in say partly because he is American while Gilmour doesn't because, while he was awesome as well, he's Cdn and as such he gets penalized? That's the same thing as getting extra credit for your nationality...and it's a ludicrous suggestion!

PPS: I will say clearly again, I have nothing against USA hockey...at all!

eykwingnut
06-21-2009, 01:56 PM
have u guys seen where bernie is located in the hall? pretty funny actually. tucked away in a spot where it doesnt look like ur allowed to go. i had to ask a staff member where he was because hes an inside joke with me and a buddy of mine that i went with.

Dubz
06-21-2009, 07:17 PM
Modano will get in partly because he is the best US player to ever play in the NHL.


Quote b_illin

ludicrous suggestion!

Sorry its jmo

nyrblue2
06-21-2009, 09:38 PM
have u guys seen where bernie is located in the hall? pretty funny actually. tucked away in a spot where it doesnt look like ur allowed to go. i had to ask a staff member where he was because hes an inside joke with me and a buddy of mine that i went with.
Where exactly is it? I can't say I was looking for him or anything, but as far as I can remember, all of the plaques are on that little semi-circle wall in the Great Hall, no?

toronto1979
06-21-2009, 09:45 PM
Where exactly is it? I can't say I was looking for him or anything, but as far as I can remember, all of the plaques are on that little semi-circle wall in the Great Hall, no?
Yeah that's what I thought? The etched glass.

there's displays on certain players, and pieces of history (ie: contracts, sticks, trophies, pucks, microphones, etc). But the actual wall of plaques is where they are, in chronological order.

If there's a display on Federko, I'd be surprised, I don't think there's even one for every player, builder, coach, etc.

nyrblue2
06-21-2009, 09:49 PM
Yeah that's what I thought? The etched glass.

there's displays on certain players, and pieces of history (ie: contracts, sticks, trophies, pucks, microphones, etc). But the actual wall of plaques is where they are, in chronological order.

If there's a display on Federko, I'd be surprised, I don't think there's even one for every player, builder, coach, etc.
Yea, same here. That's why I thought he was taking about the plaques.

toronto1979
06-21-2009, 09:52 PM
Which of these guys get into The Hall in your opinions?

Forwards
Modano
Jagr
Shanahan
Selanne
Fedorov
Sundin
Roenick
Sakic
Forsberg

Defense
Lidstrom
Pronger

Goalies
Belfour
Hasek

May be way off base but I'm thinking YES to Modano, Jagr, Sakic, Lidstrom, Hasek. Anyone else? Exclusions?

I'd say most if not all would get in eventually. The debate will be if they're first ballot or not. Without looking up career stats on anything, this is who i would vote for on first ballot (yes my votes are subjective, but so are the people who vote on the HOF members).

PMStick
06-21-2009, 10:19 PM
I'm asking bc I'm trying to get an RC, auto, and LC (last card preferably w/career stats on the back) for every HHOFer in my lifetime 1979-

Would be good to ebay some of these before the eventual jump in price when they get nominated but there is some speculation.

Paid way too much on a really cool HHOF binder for them all and got the wife's permission to spend the eventual ~$1,000 on this project. The Gretzky, Roy, Yzerman and Lemieux are all going to be expensive bitches. I have most of the RCs it's just the Autos that are tough. Fun to bid on though.

Here's to havin a hobby :beer:

toronto1979
06-21-2009, 10:25 PM
I'm asking bc I'm trying to get an RC, auto, and LC (last card preferably w/career stats on the back) for every HHOFer in my lifetime 1979-
I think I have the RC of most of those guys. I was also born in 1979 and collected cards A LOT as a kid. Even got the Jagr Upper Deck rookie in french!

What's an auto card?

*nevermind* I think you mean autographed?

Snipes16
06-21-2009, 10:36 PM
Tier 1...Lidstrom, Sakic, Jagr, Hasek

Tier 2...Shanahan, Sundin, Forsberg, Modano

Tier 3...Selanne, Federov, Pronger

Tier 4...Roenick, Belfour

Seems to be some anti Foppa sentiment but he was one of the best in traffic players I've ever seen. In his prime he was a top 5 player imo. Took the chicken out of Swede as well. Who nowadays compares to him? Bobby Clarke was the closest I've seen.

Pronger needs a few more years but I'd take Chelios over him right now even though he wasn't in the conversation.

two24four
06-21-2009, 10:53 PM
Pronger is a resounding YES in my books. He dominates every game he plays in and its noticeable when he's not on the ice. The only question mark for me are his suspensions.

Agreed, I really have not doubt in my mind that one day Pronger will be in the HHOF.

Dubz
06-21-2009, 11:03 PM
I'm asking bc I'm trying to get an RC, auto, and LC (last card preferably w/career stats on the back) for every HHOFer in my lifetime 1979-

Would be good to ebay some of these before the eventual jump in price when they get nominated but there is some speculation.

Paid way too much on a really cool HHOF binder for them all and got the wife's permission to spend the eventual ~$1,000 on this project. The Gretzky, Roy, Yzerman and Lemieux are all going to be expensive bitches. I have most of the RCs it's just the Autos that are tough. Fun to bid on though.

Here's to havin a hobby :beer:

Well I got a few cards....I have a Brodeur Auto but unfortunately it has MA Fleury's Auto on it too :lol: My new Fav card.

If you need certain cards let me know and I'll see what I have for you. Of course Ill give you a decent deal. Doc has the Mario (doubt he will sell) I have the good Jagr (OPC Premier) but its in a set (would want to sell the whole set) notables Feds, Sundin, Roenick, and some others. Lmk if your interested.

b_illin
06-21-2009, 11:35 PM
Tier 1...Lidstrom, Sakic, Jagr, Hasek

Tier 2...Shanahan, Sundin, Forsberg, Modano

Tier 3...Selanne, Federov, Pronger

Tier 4...Roenick, Belfour

Seems to be some anti Foppa sentiment but he was one of the best in traffic players I've ever seen. In his prime he was a top 5 player imo. Took the chicken out of Swede as well. Who nowadays compares to him? Bobby Clarke was the closest I've seen.

Pronger needs a few more years but I'd take Chelios over him right now even though he wasn't in the conversation.

I don't think anyone doubts him as a player or his abilities or whatever, I think it's because he didn't have an amazing career due to injuries, and that, unfortunate as it may be, is why he likely will not make it in. Too bad for him...but there's lots of guys like him who missed the boat for similar reasons.

Doctego
06-22-2009, 05:50 AM
Seems to be some anti Foppa sentiment but he was one of the best in traffic players I've ever seen. In his prime he was a top 5 player imo. Took the chicken out of Swede as well. Who nowadays compares to him? Bobby Clarke was the closest I've seen.

He clearly had HOF talent. Just not enough games played for me.

moans
06-22-2009, 07:43 AM
I think foppa will get in as well. His international achievements make up for his lack of NHL games IMO.

Spartan
06-22-2009, 07:59 AM
Yeah thinking more about Forsberg he is a hall of famer. He was probably the best player in the game in the early 2000's Calder, Hart and Ross agree with this as well.

He's in.

Spartan
06-22-2009, 08:34 AM
Updated my list, expanded on some players based on responses.


Forwards
Modano - YES best US born player, and yes that matters when most of the league is here. He was robbed of the Calder (Makarov), Selke and Byng nominee, he was in The Mighty Ducks, Won a cup led his team to 2 other finals.
Jagr - Borderline, I'd guess no because he is not well liked. Let me expand on this a little tying to PM Stick mentioning character. Jagr is certainly statistically HOF, has the recognitions as well. However he has always had work ethic questions and was never a complete player, nor aspired to be. He had a Barry Bonds type attitude about him, add to that public gambling and tax problems. Whenever you get character issues and have to convince 14 of 18 people to vote for you, its tough. He could very well get but it will take more than one try and hinge on HOF trends. The current trend is stingy.
Shanahan - NO, the accumulator argument is spot on.
Selanne - YES, he was incredible when he entered the league.
Fedorov - NO
Sundin - NO, not enough numbers didn't win anything. Never nominated for a major award. Playoff numbers steep drop from his regular season averages. Only one deep run in the playoffs. Never among the best three or four at his position at any time in his career.
Roenick - NO
Sakic - YES
Forsberg - YES, post below

Defense
Lidstrom - Easily
Pronger - YES

Goalies
Belfour - YES , multiple Vezina awards was the best in the league in for a five year run early 90's.
Hasek - Easily

b_illin
06-22-2009, 09:23 AM
Updated my list, expanded on some players based on responses.


Forwards
Modano - YES best US born player, and yes that matters when most of the league is here. He was robbed of the Calder (Makarov), Selke and Byng nominee, he was in The Mighty Ducks, Won a cup led his team to 2 other finals.
Jagr - Borderline, I'd guess no because he is not well liked. Let me expand on this a little tying to PM Stick mentioning character. Jagr is certainly statistically HOF, has the recognitions as well. However he has always had work ethic questions and was never a complete player, nor aspired to be. He had a Barry Bonds type attitude about him, add to that public gambling and tax problems. Whenever you get character issues and have to convince 14 of 18 people to vote for you, its tough. He could very well get but it will take more than one try and hinge on HOF trends. The current trend is stingy.
Shanahan - NO, the accumulator argument is spot on.
Selanne - YES, he was incredible when he entered the league.
Fedorov - NO
Sundin - NO, not enough numbers didn't win anything. Never nominated for a major award. Playoff numbers steep drop from his regular season averages. Only one deep run in the playoffs. Never among the best three or four at his position at any time in his career.
Roenick - NO
Sakic - YES
Forsberg - YES, post below

Defense
Lidstrom - Easily
Pronger - YES

Goalies
Belfour - YES , multiple Vezina awards was the best in the league in for a five year run early 90's.
Hasek - Easily

Two actually and a few close calls where they lost 4-3 in the Conference Semi's....but I agree, he won't make it in.

mrtybrodur30
06-22-2009, 10:12 AM
Im surprised its almost all NO's for Fedorov, he has had a great career, has a Hart trophy himself, played great two way hockey and also has a couple Selke trophies, has 3 cups and was clutch time and time again when it mattered most in the playoffs. Also holds alot of records for Russian players as well. But the 3 cups and his playoff performances are alot better than others on the list.


Anyways i agree all of them deserve to be on for one reason or another, especially Shanahan i would have a hard time leaving him off with the kind of career numbers he has, even tough he may not have had alot of outstanding single season's the guy had ALOT of good season's. Kept himself healthy and kept producing.

eykwingnut
06-22-2009, 10:16 AM
federko is right by the elevator that is across from the gift shop. the elevator is tucked in a corner next to the stairs that lead to the major trophies.

here ya go guys!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/eykwingnut/hhofberniefederko.jpg

Spartan
06-22-2009, 11:05 AM
I would endorse Shanahan as a builder. The committee he put together during the lockout made recommendations on how to improve the game and were nearly entirely adopted by the league. The hockey pre-lockout was unwatchable especially during the playoffs.

chgorman
06-22-2009, 02:17 PM
I would endorse Shanahan as a builder. The committee he put together during the lockout made recommendations on how to improve the game and were nearly entirely adopted by the league. The hockey pre-lockout was unwatchable especially during the playoffs.

I think this ^, combined with his career numbers and his consistency, make Shanny HOF worthy. He was never what I would consider "superstar" calibre, but his career numbers are pretty damn solid, he was a consistent threat for 30 goals pretty well every season until the last two, and he's definitely made the game better (IMO) through his off ice efforts. I def don't see him as a first ballot kinda guy, and I don't think he'd get in on numbers alone if he does get in at all, but I think when you look at the whole package, his entire career and consider his goal scoring consistency as well as overall numbers and Stanley Cup rings, and what he's done to help improve the game, I think he deserves to be inducted. I'm biased though, being a wings fan.

I'm on the fence on Fedorov. Prior to the trade to ANA, I woulda said hell yeah he's a HOF'er, without question, but his game has deteriorated so much since he left DET that I'm not sure now. I realize that his deterioration has been partially due to injuries, but he just hasn't been the same player for about 6 yrs now. His numbers for the 1st 6 yrs of his career are phenominal, and he was pretty reliable for 60-70 pts for years after that in a low scoring NHL on a DET team where scoring was spread around a lot, his career playoff numbers are solid, he's got a Hart (from what IMO was one of the best single seasons ever for a player who played both ends of the ice as well as he did), and he's got rings too, but I'm a little hesitant on him just because his level of play has dropped off so much in the past while.

It's tough 'cause Shanny's play has dropped off significantly in the past couple seasons too, so I guess I can't really use that as reasoning against Feds if I'm gonna say that Shanny should get in but Feds shouldn't. I think Shanny has a little more going for him, and kept up his productivity up a little longer (although never quite reached the 'superstar' status that Feds did early in his career), and I'd love to see both make it in at some point, but I can't really say for sure that one or the other or both/neither truly deserve to be there without question. They were both great players in different ways and both at least deserve mention, IMO.

How's that for a cop-out? :lol:

I think one of the problems both those guys will face is the fact that there are is such a huge glut of Hall worthy guys who have either retired in the past few yrs or are retiring in the next couple years that they're gonna be up against a lot of great players, whereas there will be a couple of 'down' years after the next few where there won't be too many (what I would consider) Hall worthy guys retiring, and it might be easier for them. That said, I'm talking like they've retired already and yet both could still have a few good yrs left in 'em, so maybe by the time they do retire, there'll be less competition for 'em and they're more likely to get in. Tough to say.

eykwingnut
06-22-2009, 02:56 PM
I think this ^, combined with his career numbers and his consistency, make Shanny HOF worthy. He was never what I would consider "superstar" calibre, but his career numbers are pretty damn solid, he was a consistent threat for 30 goals pretty well every season until the last two, and he's definitely made the game better (IMO) through his off ice efforts. I def don't see him as a first ballot kinda guy, and I don't think he'd get in on numbers alone if he does get in at all, but I think when you look at the whole package, his entire career and consider his goal scoring consistency as well as overall numbers and Stanley Cup rings, and what he's done to help improve the game, I think he deserves to be inducted. I'm biased though, being a wings fan.

I'm on the fence on Fedorov. Prior to the trade to ANA, I woulda said hell yeah he's a HOF'er, without question, but his game has deteriorated so much since he left DET that I'm not sure now. I realize that his deterioration has been partially due to injuries, but he just hasn't been the same player for about 6 yrs now. His numbers for the 1st 6 yrs of his career are phenominal, and he was pretty reliable for 60-70 pts for years after that in a low scoring NHL on a DET team where scoring was spread around a lot, his career playoff numbers are solid, he's got a Hart (from what IMO was one of the best single seasons ever for a player who played both ends of the ice as well as he did), and he's got rings too, but I'm a little hesitant on him just because his level of play has dropped off so much in the past while.

It's tough 'cause Shanny's play has dropped off significantly in the past couple seasons too, so I guess I can't really use that as reasoning against Feds if I'm gonna say that Shanny should get in but Feds shouldn't. I think Shanny has a little more going for him, and kept up his productivity up a little longer (although never quite reached the 'superstar' status that Feds did early in his career), and I'd love to see both make it in at some point, but I can't really say for sure that one or the other or both/neither truly deserve to be there without question. They were both great players in different ways and both at least deserve mention, IMO.

How's that for a cop-out? :lol:

I think one of the problems both those guys will face is the fact that there are is such a huge glut of Hall worthy guys who have either retired in the past few yrs or are retiring in the next couple years that they're gonna be up against a lot of great players, whereas there will be a couple of 'down' years after the next few where there won't be too many (what I would consider) Hall worthy guys retiring, and it might be easier for them. That said, I'm talking like they've retired already and yet both could still have a few good yrs left in 'em, so maybe by the time they do retire, there'll be less competition for 'em and they're more likely to get in. Tough to say.
how about leadership qualities on and off the ice? that played a significant role in my decision process. shanahan seems to stick up for his teammates on the ice and is a big voice in the locker room. i dont see these qualities in fedorov.

chgorman
06-22-2009, 03:03 PM
how about leadership qualities on and off the ice? that played a significant role in my decision process. shanahan seems to stick up for his teammates on the ice and is a big voice in the locker room. i dont see these qualities in fedorov.

Good point eyk. I was gonna mention Shanny's leadership qualities, but then forgot. He's got that going for him too.

phaneuf6
06-22-2009, 05:53 PM
I think one of the problems both those guys will face is the fact that there are is such a huge glut of Hall worthy guys who have either retired in the past few yrs or are retiring in the next couple years that they're gonna be up against a lot of great players, whereas there will be a couple of 'down' years after the next few where there won't be too many (what I would consider) Hall worthy guys retiring, and it might be easier for them. That said, I'm talking like they've retired already and yet both could still have a few good yrs left in 'em, so maybe by the time they do retire, there'll be less competition for 'em and they're more likely to get in. Tough to say.

That's the biggest factor right there.

As for the leadership bit, who knows who's the leader in the room and who's not. None of us are in the room with these guys so we don't really know. I mean, I never pegged Dany Heatley to be one of those guys but my buddy was out with Cody Bass the other night and he told him that Heatley is the most vocal guy in the room, he's always firing the others up and he looks/acts like the captain in there, on the ice, and on the bench. Just goes to show you that unless you're in there with the guys, you'll never really know.

keys2aFranchise
06-23-2009, 07:02 AM
As far as Pronger - there is only one winner in the history of the Norris trophy who is eligible and not been inducted into the Hall of Fame and I doubt Pronger becomes #2.

eff1ngham
06-23-2009, 12:53 PM
Out of the players you've listed, the only one I see a definite no is Roenick.

Sundin has a great list of accomplishments, none of them involves an major NHL award or a stanley cup, but he's one of the best in international play. I don't think he'll get in on his first try though.

I was surprised there wasn't much love for Federov and Forsberg. Forsberg may have had an injury-shortened NHL career, but he's got some impressive hardware, he was dominant in the playoffs, and his international play more than makes up for the rest. And Federov also has a big list of hardware and was dominant in the playoffs (he was amazing in the mid to late 90s). I think both of them easily make it in

Chilly_Willy
06-25-2009, 09:13 AM
I think Fedorov gets in. If you look at his wiki page it lists more impressive resume than people may originally think. He has lots of championships with international play, he was one of handful of early players the to actually defect from USSR once players like Larionov paved the way, highest scoring russian player of all time, selke hart and cup, dont forget he also played defense many times which is notable. Also consider his playoff performance 4 strait seasons with 20 pts or more, a few decimals under a ppg playoff carear. His career and performance were hurt in the many moves but I don't think it stops him. I hope he plays one more year and acheives 500 goals.

alias
06-25-2009, 04:45 PM
I think Fedorov gets in. If you look at his wiki page it lists more impressive resume than people may originally think. He has lots of championships with international play, he was one of handful of early players the to actually defect from USSR once players like Larionov paved the way, highest scoring russian player of all time, selke hart and cup, dont forget he also played defense many times which is notable. Also consider his playoff performance 4 strait seasons with 20 pts or more, a few decimals under a ppg playoff carear. His career and performance were hurt in the many moves but I don't think it stops him. I hope he plays one more year and acheives 500 goals.

he just signed in the khl so that wont happen

Chilly_Willy
06-25-2009, 07:13 PM
he just signed in the khl so that wont happen

Dooo! Oh well wish him the best. May be downloading some KHL games this year and see what its all about LOL!!!

Dubz
06-25-2009, 08:57 PM
Dooo! Oh well wish him the best. May be downloading some KHL games this year and see what its all about LOL!!!

Doubt that:wtf:

PMStick
04-17-2010, 07:40 PM
Is Pavel Bure a definite NO to the HHOF?

Dubz
04-17-2010, 08:02 PM
Is Pavel Bure a definite NO to the HHOF?

I have his RC if your looking:D

PMStick
04-18-2010, 02:36 PM
I have his RC if your looking:D

Is it serial numbered to /999,999,999? Everything that year was.

Haha...actually card trading is part of the reason for my question about Pavel.

PMStick
04-18-2010, 02:40 PM
Tier 1...Lidstrom, Sakic, Jagr, Hasek

Tier 2...Shanahan, Sundin, Forsberg, Modano

Tier 3...Selanne, Federov, Pronger

Tier 4...Roenick, Belfour

Seems to be some anti Foppa sentiment but he was one of the best in traffic players I've ever seen. In his prime he was a top 5 player imo. Took the chicken out of Swede as well. Who nowadays compares to him? Bobby Clarke was the closest I've seen.

Pronger needs a few more years but I'd take Chelios over him right now even though he wasn't in the conversation.

I thing Selanne moved up a rung this year with all the milestones. Do they have a section of the HHOF for players that kick ass on the Power Play?

alias
04-18-2010, 04:11 PM
I thing Selanne moved up a rung this year with all the milestones. Do they have a section of the HHOF for players that kick ass on the Power Play?

Dave Andreychuk hopes so.

pjm
04-18-2010, 09:44 PM
EDIT: nevermind this thread is old news

PMStick
03-22-2012, 10:45 PM
Congrats to Ciccarelli, M.Howe, Gilmour, Nieuwendyk and Belfour.

How did players move around since this thread was enacted in 2010?

Any new guys to mention? Bure? Lindros?

How about later guys that are just finishing up like Elias, Alfredsson, Hejduk? Anyone not mentioned that should be?

Kyle
03-22-2012, 11:36 PM
NO to Alfredsson. Too much of a compiler as mentioned early. He simply has never been great, just steadily good for an Ungodly long time. I love what he does but he doesn't get in.

Elias - Nope. Exact same reason as Alfy. Elias has literally no chance, hes just been good for a long time and not as much as Alfy even.

Hejduk - Absolutely not. His ship came and sailed in a three year span. From 2000-2003 we thought this guy might be a top sniper in this league but he reverted to mediocrity since. Hes simply a productive player, theres really nothing better about his career to be said than that. Has only reached 30 goals twice since reaching 50 8 years ago and won't reach 20 goals now at 36, an age many still reach 20 goals, let alone a guy who arrived as a "pure sniper." Hejduk has been too consistently average to ever get considered.

Now, I know this thread is old, but I missed it so to share some thoughts:

Federov is easily a HoF worthy player. Depriving him would be one of the greatest crimes in NHL history. He is easily one of the very best hockey players of all time. A 1st round pick in an all-time fantasy draft. You build a team around this guy in his prime. Electrifying is the first word anyone could've used to describe Federov throughout the 90s. He dominated highlight reels when he couldn't dominate scoring in an era where Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr posted up nearly unreachable numbers. Its not easy to earn a reputation as an offensive star in light of those 3's accomplishments through that era but Federov carved himself some respect with his truly unique set of talents. He dominated both halves of the ice whenever he stepped out there, had an absolute ROCKET at 100+ MPH, had a wrist-shot just a lethal, has the major Russian records, has won at every level multiple times, NEARLY 200 PLAYOFF POINTS! (This is huge) and a noted big-game performer. He was a leader, attitude or not. This guy can not be kept out of the HoF.

Look, I know the deal with his attitude and not being so liked in the long run, but Federov is every bit as much a sure-in as Jagr in my book. He is as good of a hockey player all-around. I build my team around him just as soon. And in his prime, choosing him over Jagr probably gave you a better chance to win a game and a better chance for your team to win a cup because he was that important in all areas of the ice, not just the offensive zone. Federov is one of the best hockey players ever and will be in the HoF without any sort of doubt.

People here kept talking about "Did he dominate, was he the best." Well Federov was the best in the NHL when the Red Wings lost Steve Yzerman. He stayed a top 5ish player for 2-3 years, and overall was a dominant all star over about a decade. This stretch included four consecutive 20 point playoff seasons. In 4 years time he compiled a stupid high 84 points in 78 games, setting a benchmark for postseason success and performance that no player in the NHL has accomplished since. He got 19 points two years later. Whatever statistical shortcomings Federov might've suffered in the latter half of his career will absolutely be outweighed in the voter's eyes by his dominant defensive play over two decades. Federov is way ahead of Shanny in line too. Shanny never approached the best players in the NHL even when he scored 50 goals twice. He was always good but never dominated this league like Federov did for nearly a decade. Shanahan will get an edge for the off-ice comparison and all his goals but overall Federov was simply way better and should get in first.


In a 2009 interview, former Red Wings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Red_Wings) Head coach Scotty Bowman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotty_Bowman) recalled a conversation between Gretzky and him: "I talked to Wayne Gretzky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Gretzky) about that six or seven years ago and he said to me: 'I couldn't play forward and defence. Mario couldn't do it. Jagr couldn't play defense. But Sergei could. He was a hell of a player'."

He didn't just "play forward and defense." He is a 50 goal, 100 point scorer, and possibly the best two-way forward in NHL history. Hes one of the best skaters in NHL history. He was so good at defense that he spent very large sums of time throughout his career actually playing as a defender on the blueline. Such a guaranteed HoF decision!

And anyone who even questioned or thought about Pronger is insane. Hes just as certain as Jagr to get in. I've been dead sure he'd be in the hall of fame well over 5 years now, what league have you guys been watching?! This guys as studly as it gets behind Lidstrom. Easily right alongside Scott Nieds as the second-best D-man of this generation.