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saveur
10-22-2010, 05:15 PM
Lesnar
Kampmann
Sanchez
Ortiz
Schaub

Hockeyis#1
10-23-2010, 01:40 AM
Lesnar
Shields
Thiago
Hamill
Shaub

dw13
10-23-2010, 10:29 AM
Surprised everyone is picking Schaub.

Cain over Lesnar
Shields over Kampmann
Thiago over Sanchez
Hamill over Tito
Zaga over Schaub

two24four
10-23-2010, 12:12 PM
Surprised everyone is picking Schaub.

Cain over Lesnar
Shields over Kampmann
Thiago over Sanchez
Hamill over Tito
Zaga over Schaub

Not me, you and I are the only ones so far to pick Gonzaga.

I hope Cain puts Lesner in his place tonight.

dw13
10-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Just watched Dana's latest video blog, didn't realize how intense the stare-down between Zaga/Schaub was.

two24four
10-23-2010, 12:23 PM
Just watched Dana's latest video blog, didn't realize how intense the stare-down between Zaga/Schaub was.

haha, yeah I watched that last night, I love Dana's video blogs.

Going to be some good fights tonight.

dw13
10-23-2010, 12:24 PM
haha, yeah I watched that last night, I love Dana's video blogs.

Going to be some good fights tonight.

Should be one of the best cards of the year, IMO.

mrtybrodur30
10-23-2010, 01:01 PM
I just dont get the hype on Cain except for his great win vs Nog. I still think it should have been Dos Santos/ Velasquez for #1 contender. Dos Santos has left a path of destruction and has faced much tougher competition than Cain has.

I think its funny Cain's camp is saying they will have such a HUGE advantage in the 4th and 5th rounds if it goes that far. Yeah cause hes fought that deep in a fight before. :rolleyes: Brock hasnt been past the 3rd either im just saying there's no guarantee Cain will be fine if it gets past the 3rd. Brock's fights usually last longer than Cain's too lol. Im not saying Brock has an advantage but I think Brock could hold his own if it went later into the fight, I didnt think this when he first started fighting but the guy truly is a freak.

I just dont see Cain winning. If Lesnar rocks him he wont be able to fall into a weak takedown like he did vs Kongo. If he starts to get the better of Brock standing up, Brock will find a way to gain the takedown. Cain's best chance to win is by pulling off some sort of submission on Brock. Which is tough already cause after his defeat to Mir he has been pretty good on the ground making sure to stay safe and out of danger. Will be interesting for sure though, but I see the Champion retaining the belt. Like Brock said Cain is just not as good as Brock Lesnar.


I also agree that was a great staredown with Gonzaga and Schaub, I hope Gonzaga wins.
Want Kampmann to win but he is very much against the odds facing Shields.
Although Tito looks in great shape I hope Hamill shuts him up.
I like Diego but I think Thiago will win this one.

If I was betting for parlays:
Lesnar over Velasquez
Shields over Kampmann
Tito over Hamill
Gonzaga over Schaub
Thiago over Sanchez

Will be going for Lawlor over Cote too should be a great fight.

Jake
10-23-2010, 02:38 PM
WHITE PRIDE..... Never thought I would go for Brock, but I bet on him tonight. Should be a great card, but I have fallen for that assumption more than once.

dw13
10-23-2010, 09:35 PM
I'll eat crow. Very impressive by Schaub.

saveur
10-23-2010, 10:37 PM
That was an awesome performance by Sanchez.

mrtybrodur30
10-23-2010, 10:52 PM
lol im 0 for 3 so far but atleast happy Hamill and Sanchez won especially Hamill.

saveur
10-23-2010, 11:06 PM
Eh, I don't really agree with that Shields decision. Sure, he controlled Kampmann on the ground... but he did pretty much no damage while there and didn't even threaten with submissions. Not to mention he seemed to get rocked a few times. But I guess it's not a terrible decision.

dw13
10-23-2010, 11:06 PM
How was that Shields/Kampmann a split decision? Didn't see any round Kampmann won. A normal Shields lay and pray fight though.

Main event coming...

dw13
10-23-2010, 11:25 PM
I couldn't be more happy to see Brock get dominated. Thank you Cain!!!!

mrtybrodur30
10-23-2010, 11:47 PM
Wow! Well Cain proved me wrong tonight, very VERY impressive. Great win for him. Cant wait to see the fight everyone has been waiting for Dos Santos vs Velasquez, gonna be good. Even after tonight I like JDS. whats everyone else think? Also who's next for Brock? Should be interesting to see how he rebounds from this. Gotta love MMA anything can happen and usually does.

keyboard
10-24-2010, 12:26 AM
I forgot to post in this thread. You guys were posting too many TUF spoilers.

I went 3/4 on my parlay, losing the last fight on the card of course!

Schaub/Sanchez/Shields/Lesnar

two24four
10-24-2010, 12:30 AM
Cain !!!! that was awesome.

Zangetsu
10-24-2010, 01:28 AM
Velasquez over Lesnar
Shields over Kampmann
Sanchez over Thiago
Hamill over Ortiz
Schaub over GonzagaMaybe I should start betting on fights.

Great night overall. Cain was amazing. The Shields fight was tough to judge. Kampmann could have won a couple of rounds based on damage, but Shields dictated the fight throughout. Sanchez/Thiago was amazing. If Thiago didn't gas in the third, that had FOTY potential through two.

Hockeyis#1
10-24-2010, 01:51 AM
Wow, Brock looked pretty bad imo. From the bits and pieces I've seen of his camp, he looks like he'd be better off somewhere better.....idk

Did Shields even hit Kampmann once while they were on the ground? Seriously, Kampmann's going to the bar, Shields is going to the hospital, but somehow Shields won the fight?!?

Glad to see Diego Sanchez act like Diego Sanchez again. That had FOTY written on it after two rounds, sadly Thiago gassed in the third. Still def FOTN.

Overall, fantastic card.

keyboard
10-24-2010, 10:46 AM
Maybe I should start betting on fights.I think you should for sure look into it. You seem to always be fairly accurate. Next card I'll PM you and figure out some parlay options. I'll give you a 10% cut. :lol:

two24four
10-24-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm still pumped that Cain beat Brock, that made my night.

keyboard
10-24-2010, 03:24 PM
I'm still pumped that Cain beat Brock, that made my night."Beat" is putting it lightly. I am still a huge Brock fan, not so much as a fighter but as a personality. His post fight interview makes it really hard to hate the guy.

dw13
10-24-2010, 08:51 PM
"Beat" is putting it lightly. I am still a huge Brock fan, not so much as a fighter but as a personality. His post fight interview makes it really hard to hate the guy.

Did you just not watch his post match interviews in his previous fights or something?

keyboard
10-24-2010, 09:10 PM
Did you just not watch his post match interviews in his previous fights or something?I've seen them all. Him nearly dying has humbled him, you can see it now. Saw it after Carwin, saw it more last night.

snoopzen
10-24-2010, 09:15 PM
Did you just not watch his post match interviews in his previous fights or something?Meh. I take all that posturing with a grain of salt. Controversy sells, and as a former pro wrestler Brock knows better than anyone that someone who's good on the stick is going to make money in this business.

Look at Rampage vs. Rashad. Before TUF 10 started there is no way that fight should have been that hyped or anticipated, but the obvious (and honest) bad blood between them, plus all that commentary flying between them, made that fight. Would you have guessed before that season of TUF that this would end up being the 6th-highest grossing UFC gate of all time?

I think that Brock's UFC personality and his true personality are quite different, and I think his comments following the Velasquez fight were more him than the ones around, say, the Mir fight.

dw13
10-24-2010, 09:23 PM
Meh. I take all that posturing with a grain of salt. Controversy sells, and as a former pro wrestler Brock knows better than anyone that someone who's good on the stick is going to make money in this business.

Look at Rampage vs. Rashad. Before TUF 10 started there is no way that fight should have been that hyped or anticipated, but the obvious (and honest) bad blood between them, plus all that commentary flying between them, made that fight. Would you have guessed before that season of TUF that this would end up being the 6th-highest grossing UFC gate of all time?

I think that Brock's UFC personality and his true personality are quite different, and I think his comments following the Velasquez fight were more him than the ones around, say, the Mir fight.

I think completely different. Think he's (was) a genuine asshole, anyone who says the things he did previously in an interview has a couple screws missing.

Thought he handled himself very well last night and hope to see more of it.

Jake
10-24-2010, 09:31 PM
I think Brock was an arrogant asshole and he may have been humbled in the past year due to everything. Anyway, he hs been offered a match vs. the Undertaker in the WWE.
http://www.fanhouse.com/2010/10/24/brief-staredown-may-mean-much-more-between-lesnar-and-undertaker/?synd=1

snoopzen
10-24-2010, 10:15 PM
I think completely different. Think he's (was) a genuine asshole, anyone who says the things he did previously in an interview has a couple screws missing.You may well be right... I did hear an interview with Lesnar's corner team, and when they saw Rogan heading over to Lesnar after he still jacked up about the fight, they would have slapped the mike out of his hand if they could. In all likelihood nothing good was going to come out at that particular moment.

I do know that if I was a 6'2" 270-pound Viking-incarnate genetic freak, I might be a tad arrogant too.

dw13
10-24-2010, 10:22 PM
You may well be right... I did hear an interview with Lesnar's corner team, and when they saw Rogan heading over to Lesnar after he still jacked up about the fight, they would have slapped the mike out of his hand if they could. In all likelihood nothing good was going to come out at that particular moment.

I do know that if I was a 6'2" 270-pound Viking-incarnate genetic freak, I might be a tad arrogant too.

Shane Carwin is really a genetic freak as well, but he's as humble as it comes. Just saying.

Like I said, very happy to hear Brock after the fight and I hope he has put things into perspective after his scare in the hospital.

keyboard
10-24-2010, 10:37 PM
I think completely different. Think he's (was) a genuine asshole, anyone who says the things he did previously in an interview has a couple screws missing.

Thought he handled himself very well last night and hope to see more of it.Have you seen his UFC special? Guy lives a simple life, hardly comes off as an asshole when the spotlight isn't on him. And even when it is, he isn't that bad. He just really enjoyed beating Mir up, I think.

dw13
10-24-2010, 10:40 PM
Have you seen his UFC special? Guy lives a simple life, hardly comes off as an asshole when the spotlight isn't on him. And even when it is, he isn't that bad. He just really enjoyed beating Mir up, I think.

Could all of been his WWF act before, but still, he's a grown man and in a new profession. His couple of post-match interviews (and UFC specials before) were complete jokes.

keyboard
10-28-2010, 01:35 PM
UFC and WEC merge


http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/WEC-to-merge-with-the-UFC-fighters-surprised-an;_ylt=AtP688MH_V9ANRvVYTmePGA5nYcB?urn=mma-280677

Zangetsu
10-29-2010, 02:39 PM
It was only a matter of time. After Zuffa eliminated almost all mentions of the WEC from the Aldo/Faber PPV card, I knew we weren't far from a merger. It'll be interesting to see if Zuffa decides to go with more PPVs or just airs as many free shows as WEC was holding each year. Either way, I'm glad that the WEC guys will finally get the recognition ($) that they deserve.

dw13
10-29-2010, 02:40 PM
It was only a matter of time. After Zuffa eliminated almost all mentions of the WEC from the Aldo/Faber PPV card, I knew we weren't far from a merger. It'll be interesting to see if Zuffa decides to go with more PPVs or just airs as many free shows as WEC was holding each year. Either way, I'm glad that the WEC guys will finally get the recognition ($) that they deserve.

I'm curious of the same things, and I'm really interested to see the WEC/UFC LW belts unite. I'd love to see Benson get past Pettis, and Edgar get past Maynard. Benson/Edgar would be a really intriguing fight, imo.

saveur
11-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Pretty weak card tomorrow, but it's free! Will be shown LIVE on Sportsnet ONE in Canada, and on tape delay on Spike TV.

Chilly_Willy
11-15-2010, 09:22 AM
The WEC last Thursday was pretty sweet. Couple of amazing action packed fights. Looking forward to Jorganson v Aldo

The UFC event was so so. The Christof Shosinski fight was good. I am glad Okami got the decision.

keyboard
11-15-2010, 10:48 AM
The MMA Encyclopedia: Amazon.ca: Jonathan Snowden, Kendall Shields: Books

Hockeyis#1
11-15-2010, 10:54 AM
Suprised to see Dana White be so critical of Greg Jackson and his corner advice, although I 100% agree with him. Marquardt blew that fight.

Chilly_Willy
11-15-2010, 01:41 PM
I am not sure even if Marquardt brought it he would have beat Okami but I 100% agree with Dana on Marquardt simply not bringing it and the judges decision was right on. I am glad it was unanimous. I can't beleive Marquardt beleives he won the fight because his strikes were "harder" and he did more "damage". I can kinda see what he is talking about but Okami pushed the pace, controlled the ring and constantly got out of any trouble Marquardt put him in. At the end of the fight you could see the disappointment and concern in each fighters face but at the end of the day the right fighter won IMO.

dw13
11-19-2010, 05:56 PM
Very excited to see Phil Davis, and obviously the main event tomorrow.

Chilly_Willy
11-20-2010, 12:08 PM
Jackson v Machida
Hughes v Penn
Harris v Falcao
Phil Davis v Boetsch
Sotiropoulos v Lauzon

Zangetsu
11-20-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm pretty excited about this one.

Rampage/Machida
Hughes/Penn
Harris/Falcao
Davis/Boetsch
Sotiropoulos/Lauzon

dw13
11-20-2010, 01:49 PM
Rampage/Machida
Hughes/Penn
Harris/Falcao
Davis/Boetsch
Sotiropoulos/Lauzon

CayugaPosse
11-20-2010, 07:19 PM
I cannot fucking wait for Sotiropoulos vs Lauzon, has all the potential to be a FOTY contender.

Rampage/Machida - Something just tells me Rampage wins this fight. I know Machida's a heavy favourite and should be because odds are he just picks apart the careless Rampage, but I have a feeling we see something different from Rampage(take down/ground and pound?) and he surprises Machida.

Hughes/Penn - I'm still a huge fan of BJ Penn, him losing to Edgar twice doesn't change how good he is. Rumours of Hughes' revival are greatly exaggerated, he hasn't beaten anyone yet.

Harris/Falcao - I like Harris alot, don't know much about Falcao to be honest.

Davis/Boetsch

Sotiropoulos/Lauzon - Fight of the night. Pretty sure I've said this before on this board, if I haven't allow me to do it now. I firmly believe that George Sotiropoulos is possibly the best wrestler in the UFC today. He's put on absolute CLINICS against top flight wrestlers like Joe Stevenson. He's become one of my favourite fighters to watch, and Joe Lauzon is a fantastic opponent. This should be fun, but I really don't think Lauzon can hang with Soto on the ground, despite how good Lauzon is on the ground himself.

Chilly_Willy
11-20-2010, 08:20 PM
LOL at rampage prefight comments "I'm a fighter, this is the ultimate fighting championship, not ultimate elusive guy"

Not a big fan of rampage and his 3 IQ points but that was pretty funny :lol:

two24four
11-20-2010, 09:32 PM
Rampage over Machida
Penn over Hughes (I will be cheering for Hughes though)

dw13
11-20-2010, 10:05 PM
I cannot fucking wait for Sotiropoulos vs Lauzon, has all the potential to be a FOTY contender.

Rampage/Machida - Something just tells me Rampage wins this fight. I know Machida's a heavy favourite and should be because odds are he just picks apart the careless Rampage, but I have a feeling we see something different from Rampage(take down/ground and pound?) and he surprises Machida.

Hughes/Penn - I'm still a huge fan of BJ Penn, him losing to Edgar twice doesn't change how good he is. Rumours of Hughes' revival are greatly exaggerated, he hasn't beaten anyone yet.

Harris/Falcao - I like Harris alot, don't know much about Falcao to be honest.

Davis/Boetsch

Sotiropoulos/Lauzon - Fight of the night. Pretty sure I've said this before on this board, if I haven't allow me to do it now. I firmly believe that George Sotiropoulos is possibly the best wrestler in the UFC today. He's put on absolute CLINICS against top flight wrestlers like Joe Stevenson. He's become one of my favourite fighters to watch, and Joe Lauzon is a fantastic opponent. This should be fun, but I really don't think Lauzon can hang with Soto on the ground, despite how good Lauzon is on the ground himself.

I'm not sure that Sotrio is one of the best wrestlers but he's certainly one of the slickest from the top, no question about that.

I don't think Lauzon has big enough balls to make this a FOTY, but could be FOTN, for sure. I think we could see alot of fights being ended early tonight.

two24four
11-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Wow Penn.

dw13
11-21-2010, 12:32 AM
Solid night. I would of given the decision in the main event differently, but guess you can argue both ways no doubt.

two24four
11-21-2010, 12:36 AM
Iam a huge Rampage fan, but good for him for saying he will give Machida a rematch, classy, even he know's he prob did not win this fight.

CayugaPosse
11-21-2010, 01:44 AM
Solid night. I would of given the decision in the main event differently, but guess you can argue both ways no doubt.

I think it was fair, I thought Rampage won 1+2.

dw13
11-21-2010, 01:49 AM
I think it was fair, I thought Rampage won 1+2.

Definitely razor sharp and can see both ways. Lyoto more damage, Rampage more aggressive, IMO. Can't blame their decision.

Zangetsu
11-21-2010, 03:41 AM
Yeah, I was torn on the first round of the main event. I though rounds 2 and 3 were decisive, with each guy taking one. The first really could've gone either way.

Chilly_Willy
11-21-2010, 02:35 PM
It was an OK night. The penn fight was FOTN IMO. Nice to see Penn looking hungry again.

Someone needs to sit down with Falcao, that fight was completley unacceptable. I am getting real tierd of these types of brazillian fighters that dominate the ring but then don't try to finish the fights and or only come on when there is absolutely no risk of taking damage. Its a frick'n fight not a video game for points. I am so glad the Detroit crowed booed their hearts out, that was some hard core booing.

Along those lines I am really happy rampage won, maybe Machida did more damage but Rampage pushed the fight, I don;t want to go back to the original ufc no talent brawls but I am really getting tired of "Elusive wait and counter"/"layNpray" fights in the upper cards.

saveur
11-21-2010, 04:28 PM
Someone needs to sit down with Falcao, that fight was completley unacceptable. I am getting real tierd of these types of brazillian fighters that dominate the ring but then don't try to finish the fights and or only come on when there is absolutely no risk of taking damage. Its a frick'n fight not a video game for points. I am so glad the Detroit crowed booed their hearts out, that was some hard core booing.

I was more dissappointed in Harris. He should have known that he was losing the fight going into the 3rd round, but he still didn't try to get the win.

Fight should have been over in the 1st round anyways. The bell seemed to ring early.

dw13
11-21-2010, 04:29 PM
I was more dissappointed in Harris. He should have known that he was losing the fight going into the 3rd round, but he still didn't try to get the win.

Fight should have been over in the 1st round anyways. The bell seemed to ring early.

Yeah I agree with this completely.

Chilly, you said it yourself it's a FIGHT not a video game. Why would Falcao put himself in a position to be knocked out when he had the fight sealed up? It was a huge fight and he clearly won it, I see no problems with him. Harris on the other hand, didn't even attempt to go win the fight in the 3rd.

keyboard
11-21-2010, 06:08 PM
Didn't much care for that card. Liked what I saw from Falcao.

Chilly_Willy
11-21-2010, 08:13 PM
Falcao looks like an impressive fighter indeed, when he fights lol. Would hate to see him take a stray punch and loose the fight but to throw only 1 or 2 strikes in the whole 3rd round come on. Harris did pull him in right at the end and if the there was any more time Haris was going to sleep Falcao was impressive when engaged. Dana is not going to count the loss on a fluke knockout especially if he's pushing the fight. Dana wants guys that push the fight he says so in almost every interview and its why the UFC is so entertaining. So even though he won that 3rd round hurt his future in the UFC IMO

Yeah shame on Harris too getting choked out after the bell and then instead of making the most of an opportunity just standing around looking like a drunk elephant with his arm all dangling.

dw13
11-21-2010, 09:22 PM
Falcao looks like an impressive fighter indeed, when he fights lol. Would hate to see him take a stray punch and loose the fight but to throw only 1 or 2 strikes in the whole 3rd round come on. Harris did pull him in right at the end and if the there was any more time Haris was going to sleep Falcao was impressive when engaged. Dana is not going to count the loss on a fluke knockout especially if he's pushing the fight. Dana wants guys that push the fight he says so in almost every interview and its why the UFC is so entertaining. So even though he won that 3rd round hurt his future in the UFC IMO

Yeah shame on Harris too getting choked out after the bell and then instead of making the most of an opportunity just standing around looking like a drunk elephant with his arm all dangling.

Beating Gerald Harris is a HUGE notch in Falcao's belt. Dana is much more mad at Gerald then Falcao. Harris was one of the hottest UFC prospects in the organization.

saveur
11-23-2010, 09:37 PM
Beating Gerald Harris is a HUGE notch in Falcao's belt. Dana is much more mad at Gerald then Falcao. Harris was one of the hottest UFC prospects in the organization.
Harris just got released by the UFC today, according to MMAjunkie.

dw13
11-23-2010, 11:09 PM
Harris just got released by the UFC today, according to MMAjunkie.

Exactly my point. Was highly touted, didn't show up and then was cut for not putting a show on atleast.

Hockeyis#1
11-24-2010, 04:05 AM
Would hate to see him take a stray punch and loose the fight but to throw only 1 or 2 strikes in the whole 3rd round come on. Harris did pull him in right at the end and if the there was any more time Haris was going to sleep Falcao was impressive when engaged. Dana is not going to count the loss on a fluke knockout especially if he's pushing the fight. Dana wants guys that push the fight he says so in almost every interview and its why the UFC is so entertaining.
Winning clearly for two rounds and then getting TKO'd doesn't help you. Just ask Todd Duffee

Chilly_Willy
11-24-2010, 02:16 PM
I'll concede to you guys and your longer history of watching MMA I just think Falcao was part of the issue too. He went in did his damage in the first realized he had a wounded tiger in the cage and just decided to stare at it for 2 rounds and get the win. Harris is more to blame though since he lost the first and second round it was his job to bring it and Falcao had the luxury of waiting to counter. I just get really frustrating watching fights where both fighters want to counter. In order to counter someone has to attack or you just get 2 guys staring at each other for 15 min. Maybe I am being hard on Falcao because I do realize the stakes, but another fight of him doing some damage then sitting on the sidelines gets him cut too probably. I would have cut both fighters, send a message someone pushes the fight or go to another league.

I am really glad at least one fighter got cut. Not glad in a dick way because that really sucks for Harris, just Glad Danna sent the message.

Chilly_Willy
12-05-2010, 10:56 AM
stephan bonnar has to be my favorite fighter. He has really stepped up his game and looks awesome. I hope he keeps climbing the latter and gets another fight soon. Was really good free event.

As much as the Garcia decision was disagreed by everyone I am really glad he won. Nam Famn sat back a lot in the 3rd and Garcia was still pushing the fight. IMO pushing the fight matters to me and Garcia pushed it all 3 rounds. So many fighters now lay and pray or pick there shots all fight to a decision, smart tactics but boring fights. I'd like to see more and more horrible decisions so fighters know to finish the fight. The 10 point must scoring system also needs to go.

CayugaPosse
12-05-2010, 07:29 PM
Nam Phan was robbed.

There's some talk that they may try Brookins at 145...because he's one of the few people that can actually say they had a competitive fight with Jose Aldo(he took Aldo to three rounds before being KO'ed, and at times looked like he should have won the fight). Now that he's more polished, who knows what would happen?

That said, Aldo's alot more polished now too...

Glad to see Brookins win regardless of where he goes, he's one of the most likable guys to ever come through the house, and the first guy I really think has a future in the last several seasons of the show.

two24four
12-07-2010, 01:14 PM
1st UFC event in Toronto will be UFC 131 April 30th at the Rogers Centre.

keyboard
12-10-2010, 12:11 PM
Good article on St. Pierre: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/georges-st-pierre-making-opponents-beg-for-mercy/article1832310/

Zangetsu
12-10-2010, 04:40 PM
I've heard some criticism of this card, but I think it's going to be solid.

GSP over KOS
McCorkle over Struve
Danzig over Stevenson
Alves over Howard
Oliveira over Miller

I can't wait to see more of do Bronx. Both of his UFC fights so far have been really impressive.

Chilly_Willy
12-10-2010, 06:30 PM
GSP over KOS
Struve over McCorkle
Stevenson over Danzig
Alves over Howard
Oliveira over Miller

should be a solid show some wrestling in a few matches but I don't think we'll see a lot of evasion and coasting.

saveur
12-10-2010, 07:27 PM
GSP
McCorkle
Stevenson
Howard
EDIT: Miller

saveur
12-11-2010, 04:29 PM
GSP
McCorkle
Stevenson
Howard
EDIT: Miller
Figures. I change my pick to Miller, and it seems this morning he woke up with the flu (he's still fighting though).

b_illin
12-12-2010, 12:21 PM
Anyone have a link to that GSP or have they already taken them all down?

two24four
12-12-2010, 12:26 PM
GSP baby, good fight for him.

Now I hope it's GSP vs Sheilds at the Rogers Centre in April in front of 60,000 people like Dana was hinting at this week if GSP won last night.

dw13
12-12-2010, 12:45 PM
Now I hope it's GSP vs Sheilds at the Rogers Centre in April in front of 60,000 people like Dana was hinting at this week if GSP won last night.

Talk about a fucking snoozefest.

Shields has nothing to offer.

two24four
12-12-2010, 12:47 PM
Talk about a fucking snoozefest.

Shields has nothing to offer.

I hate to say it, but alot of GSP's fights the last little while have been snoozefest's.

habsfan1
12-12-2010, 01:03 PM
For the experts here, do you guys think we'll ever see GSP vs Silva?

dw13
12-12-2010, 01:11 PM
I hate to say it, but alot of GSP's fights the last little while have been snoozefest's.

I enjoyed watching GSP technically pick Koscheck apart last night.

two24four
12-12-2010, 01:22 PM
I enjoyed watching GSP technically pick Koscheck apart last night.

Lats nights fight was pretty good I agree, GSP owned Kos, but GSP's last few fights before last night where pretty boring.

habsfan1, GSP has said a few times that if he was going to fight Silva that he would want about a year to train for him, not sounding like they will fight anytime soon.

dw13
12-12-2010, 01:23 PM
Lats nights fight was pretty good I agree, GSP owned Kos, but GSP's last few fights before last night where pretty boring.

habsfan1, GSP has said a few times that if he was going to fight Silva that he would want about a year to train for him, not sounding like they will fight anytime soon.

I think he wants a year not to just train for him but more for the fact that he needs to gain alot of weight. He doesn't want to just get to the weight limit, but above it and then cut the weight down to the weight they fight at. It puts him on a level playing field in terms of weight, ya know.

Yeah GSP tends to be boring but last night was a very good fight to watch!!

keyboard
12-12-2010, 02:41 PM
Being technical isn't really about being entertaining.

dw13
12-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Being technical isn't really about being entertaining.

Who said those two automatically go together? I enjoyed watching GSP methodically beat Koscheck on his feet by outclassing him technically. GSP has pillow fists and still wrecked his face because of that.

I'm not saying anyone else had to be entertained by it, I was though.

keyboard
12-12-2010, 04:11 PM
Who said those two automatically go together? I enjoyed watching GSP methodically beat Koscheck on his feet by outclassing him technically. GSP has pillow fists and still wrecked his face because of that.

I'm not saying anyone else had to be entertained by it, I was though.
I was, too. I also enjoyed his Hardy fight. I often think people who find certain fights "boring" just aren't appreciating the actual technical aspects of the game. This isn't a blood sport.

Chilly_Willy
12-12-2010, 05:57 PM
I do appreciate GSP's technical superiority but watching the same jab over and over for 20 minutes gets menotonous. Smart? yes, boring? likewise. Maybe GSP can gain some wait and fight Machida I could use some good REM rest. Irony is how many fighters are now going to emulate "jab to a decision" Zzzzzz.....

Who the heck do you get to beat GSP guy is untouchable and doesn't mind hen pecking opponents to decision. Needs to be dethroned.

CayugaPosse
12-12-2010, 07:28 PM
Like Joe Rogan said last night, that fight actually lends alot of weight to many boxers in all their trash talk about MMA, who have always said the jab is the most vital thing in boxing, and MMA guys are terrible at it, and anyone with a good jab could eat an MMA fighter alive on the feet.

GSP just proved it. Koscheck looked like a moron swinging wildly while GSP landed 136 jabs to his face and busted it up.

keyboard
12-12-2010, 07:55 PM
How you don't appreciate an evolution to the sport by one of the best to ever step in the octagon is beyond me.

Hockeyis#1
12-13-2010, 10:59 AM
While GSP is clearly the best WW on the planet and a legend and so on, he's not the best fighter. 4 of his 5 last five have gone to decision. The world's best fighter finishes his fights.

Let me phrase it like this,

If Anderson Silva had his opponent basically blind in one eye after the 3rd round, do you think that guy makes it to a decision? Silva has that killer instinct that GSP lacks. He sees that weakness and pounces on it. GSP made very little effort to finish Koscheck with his timid (yet highly effective) gameplan. While Silva has had his share of goofy performances and oddball cage theatrics, he is at the end of the day, still the best because of his ability to finish. GSP hasn't finished a guy in 2 and 1/2 years.

Chilly_Willy
12-13-2010, 11:50 AM
While GSP is clearly the best WW on the planet and a legend and so on, he's not the best fighter. 4 of his 5 last five have gone to decision. The world's best fighter finishes his fights.

Let me phrase it like this,

If Anderson Silva had his opponent basically blind in one eye after the 3rd round, do you think that guy makes it to a decision? Silva has that killer instinct that GSP lacks. He sees that weakness and pounces on it. GSP made very little effort to finish Koscheck with his timid (yet highly effective) gameplan. While Silva has had his share of goofy performances and oddball cage theatrics, he is at the end of the day, still the best because of his ability to finish. GSP hasn't finished a guy in 2 and 1/2 years.

I share your view, if it were up to me fights going to decision would be an immediate draw where fighters split 25% of the purse. I don't understand how coasting to a decision is tolerated as a skillful fighting technique. Let these guys form a wrestling league if they just want to fight for points.

However what you say about Silva is not entirely true. He stood to a decision in front of a broken Demian Maia and danced around like a goofball for at least 3 rounds. GSP wants a year to train because he wants to study tapes on Silva and formulate how he can least engage with Silva and still win a decision and Silva will likely be doing the same.

keyboard
12-13-2010, 12:26 PM
So the guy who can't be touched isn't the best fighter? I can't say I share your logic.

Chilly_Willy
12-13-2010, 12:35 PM
Not the best fighter, just the best point getter. Winning a fight by points is lame when the sport allows a fighter to intentionally hold back becuase they know they already won by decision. I got no problem if 2 fighters cant finish but they tried. GSP had 4 rounds to finish a guy with what looked like a broken eye socket.

Maybe every time GSP lands a jab we can get a super mario coin collection effect and then the winner will be the guys with the most coins at the end. In fact just pull the punches and the judges can gauge if he would have followed through he would have hit him and that is a coin. Or maybe they just play ping pong.

keyboard
12-13-2010, 01:28 PM
Winning a fight by points is lame when the sport allows a fighter to intentionally hold back becuase they know they already won by decision.If you thought you saw a fighter who has a lead intentionally holding back, you weren't watching the same fight as I was.

dw13
12-13-2010, 01:46 PM
If you thought you saw a fighter who has a lead intentionally holding back, you weren't watching the same fight as I was.

x2. GSP never held back. Not once.

I think Backyard Brawling is what you need Chilly, youtube some of it before you watch a UFC event. Maybe that'll get you perked up enough to enjoy what you see on the PPV.

Chilly_Willy
12-13-2010, 02:54 PM
lol, nah I'm just being a smart ass, I respect GSP's talent. He didn't sit back as much as I make it look, but he never crossed the line to make any risky effort to avoid a decision which I think is a problem with the sport. There is no real incentive for someone that has won 2/3 or 3/5 rounds to really take any chances and you can fight smart (or boring). I understand the technical prowess of winning the right to play it safe in the fight but I don't consider it entertaining and I think Dana would be the first to admit his business is entertainment. Decision wins should be wins with an asterisk and treated as such especially in a title bout but the way the sport is designed decisions are just as good as finishing.

keyboard
12-13-2010, 02:58 PM
He stood in front of his opponent several times, but because of how skilled he is, Kosheck didn't know what to do. If you can't appreciate that, you might just want to go on YouTube and look up Kimbo Slice's fights and stick with that.

Chilly_Willy
12-13-2010, 03:08 PM
Kos also stood infront of GSP for 5 rounds and got a black eye booboo.


It was a really great UFC, I enjoyed just have a beef with decisions that aren't really actively avoided.

Hockeyis#1
12-13-2010, 08:34 PM
I'm not trying to argue that GSP isn't supremely talented, or the best WW in the world. I'm not trying to argue that he didn't win the fight or that his strategy is flawed.

I'm arguing that the world's best fighters look to FINISH fights! This is NOT what GSP did vs Koscheck. GSP avoided danger en route to a victory, like he always does. Yes, he stood infront of Kos and jabbed him to death and there was nothing Kos could do to stop it. Completely indisputable! Don't try to feed me the BS that GSP and Greg Jackson did saying GSP tried to KO Koscheck, because he didn't.

"Koscheck is a very tough guy, KOing him isn't easy"
The best in the world finish tough guys, GSP...
Silva-Griffin, Leben, Franklin (2x), Henderson, Sonnen, Marquardt
Aldo-Gamburyan, Brown, Swanson, Perez, Brookins, and God knows how Faber made it 5 rounds
Shogun-Liddell, Rampage, Machida, Overeem, Arona, Lil Nog

GSP hasn't won via ref stoppage/submission since Matt Serra in 08, failing to finish Koscheck, Hardy, Alves, Fitch, and BJ Penn.

If you want to see what a world class guy trying to finish a fight looks like youtube "chuck liddell tito ortiz 2"

keyboard
12-13-2010, 11:00 PM
You are going to say Liddell is a more world class MMA fighter than St. Pierre? I can't believe this discussion.

We are talking about mixed martial arts, not street brawling. If you don't want to watch technique at a world class level then stop pretending to be a UFC fan and say you like blood and knock outs and buy the DVD compilations.

snoopzen
12-13-2010, 11:37 PM
Haters gonna hate, I guess.

How anyone knowledgeable about the fight game can look at that fight and equate that with some kind of a failure on GSP's part is beyond me.

This is like someone hating on a skilled hockey team that wins its games without regularly beating the living snot out of the other team.

"Sure they win, but that's not a REAL hockey team!"

Hockeyis#1
12-14-2010, 01:23 AM
You are going to say Liddell is a more world class MMA fighter than St. Pierre? I can't believe this discussion.


How anyone knowledgeable about the fight game can look at that fight and equate that with some kind of a failure on GSP's part is beyond me.

This is like someone hating on a skilled hockey team that wins its games without regularly beating the living snot out of the other team.

"Sure they win, but that's not a REAL hockey team!"


I'm not trying to argue that GSP isn't supremely talented, or the best WW in the world. I'm not trying to argue that he didn't win the fight or that his strategy is flawed.

Did you guys not read that part?!

Liddell looked to finish every fight he was in. That was my point.

GSP is the old NJ Devils with the trap and the defensive system. Anderson Silva is the late 90s early 2000s Red Wings. Both very dominate teams, but where Devils bore everyone to death with superior gameplans, the Red Wings wow crowds with offense and complete destruction of teams, but every once in a while get out of character and get swept by the Ducks in the first round.

snoopzen
12-14-2010, 02:54 AM
I'm not trying to argue that GSP isn't supremely talented, or the best WW in the world. I'm not trying to argue that he didn't win the fight or that his strategy is flawed.

Did you guys not read that part?!

Liddell looked to finish every fight he was in. That was my point. I certainly did read that part. I didn't say that you thought that GSP wasn't talented or that he wasn't a great fighter. What I said was this:
How anyone knowledgeable about the fight game can look at that fight and equate that with some kind of a failure on GSP's part is beyond me.

... because what you said was this:
GSP hasn't won via ref stoppage/submission since Matt Serra in 08, failing to finish Koscheck, Hardy, Alves, Fitch, and BJ Penn.

If you want to see what a world class guy trying to finish a fight looks like youtube "chuck liddell tito ortiz 2"Maybe I'm wrong, but I come away from that thinking that in your estimation GSP somehow failed in that fight, just as he did against Hardy, Alves, Fitch and BJ Penn. AND because of that he's not a world class guy, unlike Chuck Liddell.

Listen, I'm not saying that you're wrong in thinking that. Everyone has their preferences. But I do think that this does come down to how you (and by "you" I mean the general public) look at MMA. Is it a sport, or is it a bloodsport? Do you appreciate the ground game? Or as soon as the fighters hit the canvas do you start calling for the ref to stand them back up?

Because the real fighters are the ones that knock other fighters out, right?



GSP is the old NJ Devils with the trap and the defensive system. Anderson Silva is the late 90s early 2000s Red Wings. Both very dominate teams, but where Devils bore everyone to death with superior gameplans, the Red Wings wow crowds with offense and complete destruction of teams, but every once in a while get out of character and get swept by the Ducks in the first round.This is a good analogy, EXCEPT I wouldn't say that GSP bores everyone to death. That's a pretty sweeping statement that obviously isn't true... to be sure, many people don't care for GSP's style, but equally as many are big fans and/or appreciate his fighting style.

When I saw the fight I was impressed with a facet of GSP's game that I had never seen developed to that devastating point. All that work with Freddie Roach really paid off, I guess... GSP was tactical, economical, and the right side of Koscheck's face was proof of how effective he was. I came away from that fight both impressed and entertained, and most importantly (for him, anyway) GSP kept the strap as well.

keyboard
12-14-2010, 09:43 AM
Haters gonna hate, I guess.:lol:

It's funny you should say that because I've been saying that for months now regularly. Mostly because of this:

http://www.pp2g.tv/vZnB6Y3c_.aspx

The "hate, hate, hate" chant started it.

Anyway, I agree with what you said. A lot of pseudo-MMA fans.

Hockeyis#1
12-14-2010, 01:00 PM
I certainly did read that part. I didn't say that you thought that GSP wasn't talented or that he wasn't a great fighter. What I said was this:

... because what you said was this:Maybe I'm wrong, but I come away from that thinking that in your estimation GSP somehow failed in that fight, just as he did against Hardy, Alves, Fitch and BJ Penn. AND because of that he's not a world class guy, unlike Chuck Liddell.

Listen, I'm not saying that you're wrong in thinking that. Everyone has their preferences. But I do think that this does come down to how you (and by "you" I mean the general public) look at MMA. Is it a sport, or is it a bloodsport? Do you appreciate the ground game? Or as soon as the fighters hit the canvas do you start calling for the ref to stand them back up?

Because the real fighters are the ones that knock other fighters out, right?


This is a good analogy, EXCEPT I wouldn't say that GSP bores everyone to death. That's a pretty sweeping statement that obviously isn't true... to be sure, many people don't care for GSP's style, but equally as many are big fans and/or appreciate his fighting style.

When I saw the fight I was impressed with a facet of GSP's game that I had never seen developed to that devastating point. All that work with Freddie Roach really paid off, I guess... GSP was tactical, economical, and the right side of Koscheck's face was proof of how effective he was. I came away from that fight both impressed and entertained, and most importantly (for him, anyway) GSP kept the strap as well.
GSP did fail to finish them. Which was HIS goal. GSP in his own mind kinda considers it a failure.

I appreciate MMA and all facets of it. The ground game, dirty boxing, submissions, etc. I stared in slack jawed amazement when McLovin got dominated on the ground via sweet triangle and did the same when Struve sweeped McCorkle into the full mount. I appreciate many of the technical aspects. I don't simply think of the UFC as backstreet brawls with a ref, judges and a cage.

I appreciate guys who try to finish, and not even strictly by KO/TKO. Guys like Maia or even Diaz (even though I don't like him, I respect his ability) who look to finish on the ground. I like that warrior mentality of kill or be killed. GSP fights to not lose first and win second, that's what I don't like about him.

CayugaPosse
12-14-2010, 01:01 PM
Kos also stood infront of GSP for 5 rounds and got a black eye booboo.


It was a really great UFC, I enjoyed just have a beef with decisions that aren't really actively avoided.

By "black eye booboo" I can only assume you mean a shattered orbital bone that will require surgery....which he can't have yet until the enormous swelling around his eye goes down?

Ya, that "booboo".

CayugaPosse
12-14-2010, 01:11 PM
GSP fights to not lose first and win second, that's what I don't like about him.

That's pure nonsense, he fights to win. He came in with a perfect game plan to win, and won the fight. I hate this "he didn't try and finish the fight" bullshit that, in keyboard's words, pseudo-MMA fans are using to try and throw gas on the fire.

Here's the cold hard facts about that fight. GSP in their first fight had the element of surprise, Kos didn't expect him to wrestle, and got tricked essentially. This time GSP didn't have that, and Kos is a world class wrestler(GSP landed what, 87% of takedowns before this fight, but Kos stuffed 5 of 9 takedown attempts and the other 4 times got right back up with no damage done?).

So GSP gameplanned different, he went to recruit Freddy Roach, and trained boxing. Freddie taught him what he's been saying about MMA forever, the jab is the most important punch in boxing, and any good boxer could easily win a standup war in MMA by merely controlling the fight with a jab.

GSP came in and controlled, and inflicted massive damage to Koscheck using simply a jab. Once Koscheck was injured, GSP started to throw alot of headkicks and crosses to the side that was blinded, and tried to finish the fight. That in itself is kind of careless because throwing those kicks and stronger punches could let Kos counter with either a takedown or a counter punch. None of them landed because Koscheck did a very good job of protecting himself to his blind eye from any power punches.

Koscheck survived, GSP didn't fail to finish. Do any of you guys ever consider that? That maybe you shouldn't rip on GSP for failing to finish, but commend Koscheck for surviving and doing an excellent job of protecting himself from the big shots considering he could only see out of one eye? Do you ever think instead of immediately blasting someone for not finishing a fight and saying some of the most absolutely horrendous, non-sensical garbage I have ever heard in my entire life(any fight that goes to a decision should immediately be a draw and they split 25% of the prize pool), that maybe Josh Kosheck just did a really, really good job of surviving?

For 4 rounds GSP looked for the killshot, and for 4 rounds Koscheck did a great job of avoiding it.

keyboard
12-14-2010, 01:39 PM
This kind of reminds me of when I play NHL with my friends. I own time on attack, shots on goal, and of course have more goals and win the game.

The first thing they say?

"I had more hits than you."

It's easy to hit players who have already passed the puck, controlling the game isn't about protecting players, it's above protecting the puck, moving it, and shooting it.

Same general idea in MMA. It isn't about landing the hardest or even the most shots (though GSP did both) for the KO, it's about controlling your opponent, dominating them, and breaking down their will.

GSP evolved not only his own game but possibly the sport and a bunch of jokers are upset he didn't finish a guy like Koschek who would have passed out before ever tapping in that fight.

dw13
12-14-2010, 01:48 PM
Calling Koscheck's eye injury a 'booboo' is the exact reason why I will not continue in this conversation.

snoopzen
12-14-2010, 02:14 PM
I appreciate guys who try to finish, and not even strictly by KO/TKO. Guys like Maia or even Diaz (even though I don't like him, I respect his ability) who look to finish on the ground. I like that warrior mentality of kill or be killed. GSP fights to not lose first and win second, that's what I don't like about him.All I can say is that if that's what you're taking away from GSP's fights, then the discussion's kind of over. After the utter domination that was that Koscheck fight, I don't know how you come away from that saying that GSP was simply trying not to lose. I think you'd agree that GSP was the more dominant striker... or do you more respect the wild overhands that Kos was throwing as from someone who was trying to "kill or be killed?"

You simply have your preference about what kind of fighter you like. GSP doesn't fit that mold, and therefore doesn't get your respect. Fair enough. I'd agree that the slugfest between Liddell and Ortiz was probably more exciting than the GSP/Kos fight. I'd say that the Griffin/Bonnar fight was even more exciting, but I wouldn't say that either of those guys was a better fighter than GSP.

Hockeyis#1
12-14-2010, 02:59 PM
Koscheck survived, GSP didn't fail to finish. Do any of you guys ever consider that? That maybe you shouldn't rip on GSP for failing to finish, but commend Koscheck for surviving and doing an excellent job of protecting himself from the big shots considering he could only see out of one eye? Do you ever think instead of immediately blasting someone for not finishing a fight and saying some of the most absolutely horrendous, non-sensical garbage I have ever heard in my entire life(any fight that goes to a decision should immediately be a draw and they split 25% of the prize pool), that maybe Josh Kosheck just did a really, really good job of surviving?



"Koscheck is a very tough guy, KOing him isn't easy"
The best in the world finish tough guys, GSP...
Silva-Griffin, Leben, Franklin (2x), Henderson, Sonnen, Marquardt
Aldo-Gamburyan, Brown, Swanson, Perez, Brookins, and God knows how Faber made it 5 rounds
Shogun-Liddell, Rampage, Machida, Overeem, Arona, Lil Nog

Other elite, well respected fighters who ARE on GSP's level of dominance finish the world class guys that are put infront of them. Why can't GSP? This is the only question I have. Not, GSP isn't world class, or I don't respect him, or anything like that which everyone seems to want to imply that I said or imply that I'm implying or whatever.

Guys who either ARE the best P4P today (Shogun, Aldo, Silva) or at their peak were (Fedor, Liddell, Penn) were/are all guys that dominated their competition, controlled their opponents, (or whatever other re-phrasing you want to use) and FINISHED fights. When any of them saw a wounded fighter struggling to survive on the other side of the cage, they put them away. Why can't GSP?

This isn't just about the Koscheck fight, this is about GSP's fights since he regained the WW championship.

CayugaPosse
12-14-2010, 03:43 PM
GSP's last 10 fights :

Knocked Matt Hughes out, probably twice in the same fight but the round ending saved Hughes once.

Got knocked out by Matt Serra.

Won a decision over Koscheck.

Submitted UFC hall of famer Matt Hughes.

TKO'ed Matt Serra with knee strikes to the body.

Won a decision over Jon Fitch, immediately after Fitch became a legend for the beating he took in that fight and didn't go to sleep.

TKO'ed BJ Penn when his corner threw in the towel.

Won a decision over Thiago Alves.

Won a decision over Dan Hardy, immediately after Hardy became a legend for not tapping to either of the brutal submission efforts that anyone else would have tapped to. GSP refused to break his arm.

Won a decision over Josh Koscheck. Broke his face in one round, and Koscheck hung on until the final bell.

======================

If you look at that track record and think to yourself "why can't GSP finish guys? He's clearly not on the level of Anderson Silva!", then you need to get your damn head examined I'm sorry.

Chilly_Willy
12-14-2010, 07:24 PM
Nothing against GSP's talent or your guys respect of his game, I'm not just trying to offend anyone here this is the way I feel about the sport. For me its just simply that some fighters really check their game at the door when they assume they won the first 2 (or 3 rounds in belt fights). GSP's did not show up to finish this fight he showed up to earn points. His game plan was to win by decision. He is content to coast to decsion on his talent for evasion and racking up points with precision strikes, take downs and wrestling.

I just don't agree with the points only philosophy of MMA a fighter's objective should not be to execute the most point winning moves, points should be a by-product of trying to finish the fight. GSP retained the belt because judges awarded it too him not because he finished his opponent. In the record books there is no difference but in my mind there is. Maybe in time I will learn to appreciate GSP as the fine wine of MMA.

Hockeyis#1
12-15-2010, 02:34 PM
GSP's last 10 fights :

Knocked Matt Hughes out, probably twice in the same fight but the round ending saved Hughes once.

Got knocked out by Matt Serra.

Won a decision over Koscheck.

Submitted UFC hall of famer Matt Hughes.

TKO'ed Matt Serra with knee strikes to the body.

Won a decision over Jon Fitch, immediately after Fitch became a legend for the beating he took in that fight and didn't go to sleep.

TKO'ed BJ Penn when his corner threw in the towel.

Won a decision over Thiago Alves.

Won a decision over Dan Hardy, immediately after Hardy became a legend for not tapping to either of the brutal submission efforts that anyone else would have tapped to. GSP refused to break his arm.

Won a decision over Josh Koscheck. Broke his face in one round, and Koscheck hung on until the final bell.

======================

If you look at that track record and think to yourself "why can't GSP finish guys? He's clearly not on the level of Anderson Silva!", then you need to get your damn head examined I'm sorry.
I see you making excuses for why GSP hasn't finished anyone in 2+ years.

keyboard
12-15-2010, 02:40 PM
I see you making excuses for why GSP hasn't finished anyone in 2+ years.
Have you watched these fights? Other than Alves (which was a different kind of domination altogether) all the fights were as close to knockouts without being knockouts... except the ones that were knockouts or submissions.

dw13
12-15-2010, 02:46 PM
I see you making excuses for why GSP hasn't finished anyone in 2+ years.

Anderson Silva's last 5 fights: Cote, Leites, Forrest, Maia and Sonnen.

GSP's last 5 fights: Fitch, Penn, Alves, Hardy and Koscheck.

In comparison, the fighters that Silva fought are not even on the same atmosphere. Fitch, Penn and Alves all at some point featured in everyones P4P top 10 list.

I'm not a GSP fan. But this argument is comical. You don't like the type of fighter GSP is. You are a fan of the brawlers. That's fine. Don't question GSP's P4P ranking because he's at the top of the list with Silva. 1A, 1B. Any order you want, bud.

keyboard
12-15-2010, 03:14 PM
Is Silva still on there? I thought he was dropped from that discussion?

dw13
12-15-2010, 03:21 PM
Is Silva still on there? I thought he was dropped from that discussion?

Even though he was totally dominated by a jacked-up Sonnen, I think he still deserves his place up there without question. IMO.

keyboard
12-15-2010, 03:25 PM
Even though he was totally dominated by a jacked-up Sonnen, I think he still deserves his place up there without question. IMO.Even before that fight people questioned his mentality and endurance. I would not put him 1A/B with GSP, especially after the Sonnen beat down.

Yeah, Sonnen was on steroids, but a lot of guys in the UFC are. Wouldn't shock me if GSP was.

dw13
12-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Even before that fight people questioned his mentality and endurance. I would not put him 1A/B with GSP, especially after the Sonnen beat down.

Yeah, Sonnen was on steroids, but a lot of guys in the UFC are. Wouldn't shock me if GSP was.

That's the thing about P4P list's, it's all opinionated. I don't disagree with your reasoning at all.

Hockeyis#1
12-15-2010, 05:23 PM
Have you watched these fights? Other than Alves (which was a different kind of domination altogether) all the fights were as close to knockouts without being knockouts... except the ones that were knockouts or submissions.
Yes I have seen all of those fights.

I wasn't aware ALMOST finishing someone counted. I'm sure it comforts Chael Sonnen to be the ALMOST champion.....


Anderson Silva's last 5 fights: Cote, Leites, Forrest, Maia and Sonnen.

GSP's last 5 fights: Fitch, Penn, Alves, Hardy and Koscheck.

In comparison, the fighters that Silva fought are not even on the same atmosphere. Fitch, Penn and Alves all at some point featured in everyones P4P top 10 list.

I'm not a GSP fan. But this argument is comical. You don't like the type of fighter GSP is. You are a fan of the brawlers. That's fine. Don't question GSP's P4P ranking because he's at the top of the list with Silva. 1A, 1B. Any order you want, bud.

WW is a deeper talent pool than MW in the UFC atm. There's no argument to that, but that's hardly Silva's fault, Hendo left and Franklin moved up to lhw.

Anderson Silva is not a brawler, he's a muai thai striker.

dw13
12-15-2010, 05:44 PM
WW is a deeper talent pool than MW in the UFC atm. There's no argument to that, but that's hardly Silva's fault, Hendo left and Franklin moved up to lhw.

Anderson Silva is not a brawler, he's a muai thai striker.

But you don't think the deeper talent pool is any reason why GSP hasn't finished anyone?

You have been using the Liddell comparison. He is a brawler. Nothing more. Nothing less.

CayugaPosse
12-15-2010, 08:20 PM
This conversation is criminally stupid. That comment that I'm making excuses for GSP not finishing someone is the 2nd dumbest thing I've ever read, behind the idea of calling every fight that goes the distance a draw.

I mean, my god.

His last three fights have gone to a decision, and now he can't finish fights? What a goddamn joke.

keyboard
12-15-2010, 08:39 PM
I think dawinna had the right idea when he decided to just stay out of the conversation. I'm joining him.

Chilly_Willy
12-16-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't disagree that the conversation has sorta run its course :)

Zangetsu
12-17-2010, 12:10 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zz3p63WSXZE/TQrst99qWTI/AAAAAAAAA-4/pduzoiHqZww/s1600/12.gif

That is all.

dw13
12-17-2010, 12:16 AM
Incredible :lol:

It was a solid night.

Was glad that Varner was A) on the undercard B) got choked out.

dw13
12-17-2010, 11:29 AM
I'm interested to hear what H#1 and Willy think about Cruz's domination last night? Did he not attempt to finish him?

saveur
12-17-2010, 01:40 PM
That kick was a pretty WTF moment. Too bad he wasn't able to get the (T)KO.

Cruz and Cerrone were simply impressive in their matchups (but I guess that was to be expected).

Hockeyis#1
12-19-2010, 08:45 PM
I'm interested to hear what H#1 and Willy think about Cruz's domination last night? Did he not attempt to finish him?
Didn't see the card.

Pettis's kick is jaw dropping.

Chilly_Willy
12-20-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm interested to hear what H#1 and Willy think about Cruz's domination last night? Did he not attempt to finish him?

Unfortunately I missed it, I don't know why but I seem to randomly miss information on some upcoming WEC fights. I'll have to watch it to see, if he went in with a decision first game plan like GSP then yeah I will probably fast forward 5 rounds of score points for the judges fighting.

At the end of the day if a fighter can't touch you and you are clearly the better fighter I can't blame a guy for going to decision because its still a win and why risk fluky loss or injury, its not a fault of the fighter its a fault of the rules and scoring system. I'd push for rules to end the evade decision tactic but MMA is fine just the way it is and I don't want to take away from how good guys like GSP, Cruiz are and others that share their style.

In Cruiz's previous fight he did try to finish benavidez but benavidez is not easy to knock out. So although Cruiz is a speed evasion fighter I am not sure I see him as a points only fighter.

Zangetsu
12-31-2010, 06:38 PM
Vera over Silva
Guida over Gomi
Kim over Diaz
Leben over Stann
Edgar over Maynard

CayugaPosse
01-01-2011, 05:38 PM
Silva over Vera
Guida over Gomi
Diaz over Kim
Leben over Stann
Maynard over Edgar

dw13
01-01-2011, 07:48 PM
I've got:

Vera > Silva
Kim > Diaz
Gomi > Guida
Stann > Leben
Maynard > Edgar

dw13
01-02-2011, 12:36 AM
Pretty interesting night capped by an interesting final result.

My Vera man-crush is now completely gone.

saveur
01-02-2011, 12:46 AM
On one hand, I want to see a rematch. On the other hand, I don't want to see Pettis get screwed.

Hrm.

But that was a SOLID night of fights.

Hockeyis#1
01-02-2011, 01:20 AM
I've learned to never talk shit on cards anymore. Anything can happen in MMA which I suppose is one of the biggest draws......lol....draw....lol

Oh, and an example of surviving when someone is trying to finish you but doesn't because you're a tough, tough SOB....was seen in rd 1 of the ME tonight.

Oh and I don't get why Vera was smiling, he got owned in round 3 and overall put up a very poor effort. I know I'm not smiling about that if I were him.

Great night of fights. Impressed by Stann & Edgar. I think Davis needs to consider retirement, (which is sad as he's one of my favs).

dw13
01-02-2011, 01:22 AM
I've learned to never talk shit on cards anymore. Anything can happen in MMA which I suppose is one of the biggest draws.

Oh, and an example of surviving when someone is trying to finish you but doesn't because you're a tough, tough SOB....was seen in rd 1 of the ME tonight.

Yeah, but when GSP chokes the life out of someone or almost rips off a limp, the dirty brit isn't a tough, tough SOB, right? :lol:

(Just jabbin' at you)

Zangetsu
01-02-2011, 10:54 AM
Even though he'd confirmed last night that Edgar would face Pettis next, it looks like Dana is having second thoughts, and an immediate rematch is going to happen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=5980717

It's probably the right thing to do. That fight was so close and so entertaining, it just wouldn't be right to make the fighters or the fans wait to see the rematch.

keyboard
01-02-2011, 03:08 PM
You always hear how you have to beat the champ to win the title and I just don't feel Maynard beat Edgar nearly enough to earn that win or even the draw. Very stupid result to an otherwise fantastic fight.

saveur
01-02-2011, 04:04 PM
You always hear how you have to beat the champ to win the title and I just don't feel Maynard beat Edgar nearly enough to earn that win or even the draw. Very stupid result to an otherwise fantastic fight.
Well, how else could you score that fight if not a draw or Maynard's win?

Here's how I saw it:

First round was an overwhelming Maynard round. No way that's a 10-9 round. 10-8 Maynard.
Second round was Edgar. 19-18 Maynard.
Third round was Maynard's due to the takedown (otherwise a close round). 29-27 Maynard.
Fourth was Edgar. 38-37 Maynard.
Fifth could have went either way. 47-47 if you score Edgar. 48-46 Maynard otherwise.

I'm not sure how that one judge got 48-46 Edgar.

What did everyone think of the Kim-Diaz fight btw? A lot of people seem to be complaining about Kim LnPing or that Diaz got screwed in the decision. I feel like I watched a different fight from these people. Kim was active (in the first 2 rounds) and dominated Diaz on the ground. I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Hockeyis#1
01-02-2011, 07:13 PM
I thought 5th was Edgar. He stuffed all Maynard's attempts in the round and iirc landed more. Close round, but I gave it Edgar.

I was chatting with a friend on Y! while watching the fight and after the 5th but before the decision he asked me who I gave it to and I said it could be a draw with the 10-8 rd 1 and edgar taking 2, 4, & 5.

CayugaPosse
01-02-2011, 08:16 PM
Well, how else could you score that fight if not a draw or Maynard's win?

Here's how I saw it:

First round was an overwhelming Maynard round. No way that's a 10-9 round. 10-8 Maynard.
Second round was Edgar. 19-18 Maynard.
Third round was Maynard's due to the takedown (otherwise a close round). 29-27 Maynard.
Fourth was Edgar. 38-37 Maynard.
Fifth could have went either way. 47-47 if you score Edgar. 48-46 Maynard otherwise.

I'm not sure how that one judge got 48-46 Edgar.

What did everyone think of the Kim-Diaz fight btw? A lot of people seem to be complaining about Kim LnPing or that Diaz got screwed in the decision. I feel like I watched a different fight from these people. Kim was active (in the first 2 rounds) and dominated Diaz on the ground. I'd like to hear what you guys think.

The judge that gave it 48-46 obviously gave rounds 2 through 5 to Edgar, which I actually don't think is as outlandish as you might feel on first glance. If you go look at round three, it's another dead even round, slight standup edge to Edgar, and at the end of the round Maynard scores a takedown, but Edgar pops right back up without barely even being on his back, Maynard drags him back down again, and Edgar immediately gets a submission attempt. That's all in the span of 20 seconds. A judge COULD(not that they normally do), look at that and say Maynard got two takedowns but had no control of Edgar, and Edgar attempted/nearly finished the fight with the guillotine attempt. Couple that with the edge standing, you could reasonably give that round to Frankie.

I don't see how a draw is a shitty end either, it's probably the most fair outcome, if anyone won the fight, I think it was Edgar, after the first round massacre he was the better fighter from rounds 2-5.

As for the Kim vs Diaz, Nate Diaz is my least favourite fighter in MMA. He talks so much shit and yet he never actually engages or pushes a fight, he looks to counter, and does work on the ground(usually off of his back). He's a great submission fighter, but don't act like you're such a badass when you're engaging then, I don't know, his attitude rubs me the wrong way. Like you said though, in that fight Kim controlled him onto the ground and pushed the fight the whole way, I thought he had won before hearing the decision...

dw13
01-02-2011, 08:22 PM
The judge that gave it 48-46 obviously gave rounds 2 through 5 to Edgar, which I actually don't think is as outlandish as you might feel on first glance. If you go look at round three, it's another dead even round, slight standup edge to Edgar, and at the end of the round Maynard scores a takedown, but Edgar pops right back up without barely even being on his back, Maynard drags him back down again, and Edgar immediately gets a submission attempt. That's all in the span of 20 seconds. A judge COULD(not that they normally do), look at that and say Maynard got two takedowns but had no control of Edgar, and Edgar attempted/nearly finished the fight with the guillotine attempt. Couple that with the edge standing, you could reasonably give that round to Frankie.

I don't see how a draw is a shitty end either, it's probably the most fair outcome, if anyone won the fight, I think it was Edgar, after the first round massacre he was the better fighter from rounds 2-5.

As for the Kim vs Diaz, Nate Diaz is my least favourite fighter in MMA. He talks so much shit and yet he never actually engages or pushes a fight, he looks to counter, and does work on the ground(usually off of his back). He's a great submission fighter, but don't act like you're such a badass when you're engaging then, I don't know, his attitude rubs me the wrong way. Like you said though, in that fight Kim controlled him onto the ground and pushed the fight the whole way, I thought he had won before hearing the decision...

Yeah, I agree with all of this. I actually thought Edgar won 2-5 and was going to retain the belt. I saw a possibility of a draw as well. I also disagree with the rematch talks, I'd like to see Edgar move on. Maynard has his shot to win the title, didn't do so, next in line now. LW to me is becoming really weak at the top.

Also agree with you on Diaz. He's soft. He is fine with being on his back trying to work a high guard and find a submission, other then that he doesn't have the boxing his brother has, he doesn't have the balls either. I had Kim easily in the first two, I didn't care to grade the 3rd round.

CayugaPosse
01-02-2011, 10:18 PM
Yeah, I agree with all of this. I actually thought Edgar won 2-5 and was going to retain the belt. I saw a possibility of a draw as well. I also disagree with the rematch talks, I'd like to see Edgar move on. Maynard has his shot to win the title, didn't do so, next in line now. LW to me is becoming really weak at the top.

Also agree with you on Diaz. He's soft. He is fine with being on his back trying to work a high guard and find a submission, other then that he doesn't have the boxing his brother has, he doesn't have the balls either. I had Kim easily in the first two, I didn't care to grade the 3rd round.

Agreed about the rematch, I know draws stick in some people's craw, but Anthony Pettis is the goddamn WEC Lightheavyweight Champion, he needs his fight against the UFC champ to unify the belt. That should take priority, and let Maynard get the winner.

What is Pettis supposed to do now? Just wait? Take a random fight just to appease UFC and risk losing that before he even gets a chance to fight for the UFC belt he rightfully deserves a chance to fight for?

keyboard
01-03-2011, 04:35 AM
Edgar won every round except the first. Maynard has to win the title and he didn't appear to be trying to do that for a majority of the rounds. I just felt the decision was an insult to both fighters, coming off less as a "you both fought equally well" and more as "neither of you looked good enough".

Exclude that first round and Maynard's 2 points, the highlights belong to Edgar with his controlling of the octagon, takedowns, stuffs, kicks, and pace setting. Maynard just looked gassed and waiting to counter punch. Kind of reminded me of the controversial Shogun/Machida decision, where it just looked like Maynard was waiting for a chance to counter. Difference was, of course, Machida could afford to wait being the title holder, what the heck was Maynard's excuse?

two24four
01-03-2011, 12:26 PM
No real shocker but GSP vs Sheilds April 30th in Toronto.

CayugaPosse
01-04-2011, 12:08 AM
If you read different rumours about this card, it was originally rumoured to be :

UFC Welterweight Championship - GSP(c) vs Jake Shields

UFC Heavyweight Championship - Cain Velasquez(c) vs Junior Dos Santos

UFC Bantamweight Championship - Dominik Cruz(c) vs Urijah Faber


It'll be interesting to see what happens now that the Heavyweight fight can't happen, there's a ton of rumours floating around about maybe fitting Lesnar onto the card, or switching the other title fight to Jose Aldo's first title defense.

Other fights that are all but confirmed for the card are :

Randy Couture vs Lyoto Machida
Ben Henderson vs Mark Bocek

Chilly_Willy
01-04-2011, 03:21 PM
Saw UFC 125 last night great night of fights.

Is Vera done in the UFC, he pretty much got owned and destroyed the fight before and last fight was one of the most poor performances I've seen in a great while from someone of his supposed skill.

I agree with the Kim decision because the 2 first rounds were his all the way, but had that fight gone another minute I think Kim would have been asleep.

dw13
01-07-2011, 05:42 PM
Don't know if everyone saw this.

Vera and Marcus Davis both released.

Chael Sonnen was arrested and suspended by the UFC for it.

keyboard
01-07-2011, 07:26 PM
For what?

boredguy
01-07-2011, 07:38 PM
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chael+sonnen

Zangetsu
01-07-2011, 07:42 PM
If you're asking about Sonnen, he was convicted of money laundering. He negotiated a plea bargain, so he'll only have two years probation. Apparently the maximum sentence in Oregon is 20 years.

I hadn't heard about Vera and Davis, but the UFC roster is huge now with all the extra LWs and the two new weight divisions. I'm guessing we're going to start seeing a lot of guys getting cut after lackluster performances.

keyboard
01-07-2011, 07:46 PM
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chael+sonnen
Fourth link down! Travesty.

boredguy
01-07-2011, 08:12 PM
Yeah, shoulda put arrested in there too, sorry.

CayugaPosse
01-10-2011, 03:31 AM
If you're asking about Sonnen, he was convicted of money laundering. He negotiated a plea bargain, so he'll only have two years probation. Apparently the maximum sentence in Oregon is 20 years.

I hadn't heard about Vera and Davis, but the UFC roster is huge now with all the extra LWs and the two new weight divisions. I'm guessing we're going to start seeing a lot of guys getting cut after lackluster performances.

Not sure if I saw it in this thread or elsewhere, but I had no idea whatsoever why Brandon Vera was laughing it up post-fight there, I thought after that fight he was done. It didn't seem like a funny situation.

dw13
01-11-2011, 06:07 PM
Brock and JDS as the TUF coaches.

Yeah, I'll be passing on this one, too.

Hockeyis#1
01-22-2011, 11:40 PM
Wow, Guillard just flat out impressive. The defensive wrestling was impressive.

Zangetsu
01-23-2011, 12:22 AM
I really enjoyed tonight's card overall. Wiman looked amazing. Barry put on a clinic. Hominck was overwhelming. Meathead continues to improve. Guillard looked dangerous.

Hockeyis#1
01-23-2011, 06:51 PM
I really enjoyed tonight's card overall. Wiman looked amazing. Barry put on a clinic. Hominck was overwhelming. Meathead continues to improve. Guillard looked dangerous.

Didn't see the Pat Barry fight, but I heard a lot of people complaining that he got a 30-27 decision from one judge, and some that he won the fight at all.

I was impressed by Meathead's aggressivness and power. His technique looked a little questionable IMO. I'd like to see him fight a solid striker next.

Zangetsu
01-23-2011, 07:53 PM
Barry's most significant strikes were leg kicks, so I could see why some people wouldn't think he won. I was even worried that the judges would give Beltran the decision, considering their history of discounting leg kicks. In the end, though, Barry did way more damage. Beltran could barely stand by the end of the fight.

Hockeyis#1
02-04-2011, 03:58 PM
Amazing drawing power on tomorrow nights card. Here's how I'm picking it:
Silva over Belfort
Franklin over Griffin
Bader over Jones
Torres over Banuelos
Mendes over Omigawa
Johnson over Yamamoto
Cerrone over Kelly

boredguy
02-04-2011, 04:32 PM
Really looking forward to the top of the card, especially Bader/Jones, should be some great fights. I don't follow closely enough to give predictions though.

saveur
02-04-2011, 07:35 PM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5416735907_f309afc8f5.jpg

Zangetsu
02-04-2011, 08:32 PM
That weigh in got a little heated. Let's just hope the fight lives up to the hype.

Anderson over Belfort
Forrest over Franklin
Jones over Bader
Ellenberger over Rocha
Torres over Banuelos
Mendes over Michi
Cerrone over Kelly
MightyMouse over Kid

dw13
02-04-2011, 08:38 PM
Agreed on every Zang pick.

mrtybrodur30
02-06-2011, 12:22 AM
Wow!

dw13
02-06-2011, 12:24 AM
Anderson kicked it like he was aiming for the light switch button :lol:

Awesome stuff.

Oh and Bones is getting tossed into the deep end too early, IMO.

saveur
02-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Oh and Bones is getting tossed into the deep end too early, IMO.
I don't think he is.

Bader is a top 10 LHW (just out of top 5 IMO), and Jones manhandled him like he did every other opponent. Who else is there for Jones to face that he won't be able to do the same to? Rampage? Thiago? Machida? They all have fights coming up... and aren't really a huge step down from Shogun anyways.

Nogueria? Griffin? All comparable to Bader.

keyboard
02-06-2011, 12:48 PM
He really made Bader look like a bitch. That leapfrog was ridiculous.

dw13
02-06-2011, 02:28 PM
I'm not saying the guy isn't an amazing talent. I just think he could fight some more experienced guys who will test him a bit more. I wish him well. The UFC is banking on him.

Zangetsu
02-06-2011, 03:04 PM
I never thought Bones would get a title shot so soon, but I really never thought it would come against Shogun. Do I root for the innovative hometown hero or my longtime favorite fighter? I suppose it's sort of a win-win, but it's going to hurt to see one of these guys lose. Still, if Shogun's knee holds up, this could be a really exciting fight.

Oh and...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XgUh-2vXAbs/TU4xkCmiDzI/AAAAAAAABD8/TQz11Td_1tA/s1600/2.gif

Unreal.

Hockeyis#1
02-06-2011, 04:00 PM
I would have liked to see Bones Jones fight another contender before getting Shogun. While yes a lot of guys are comparable, I still don't like guys leapfrogging all the top 5 contenders atm to get a title shot. Especially one who's never had one, and hasn't fought any of the current top 5 guys.

I'dve liked to see him fight ATLEAST Griffin and then see where the dust settles as the outliers in the division all have fights coming up. Maybe then make a #1 contenders matchup between the winner of Griffin/Jones and Jackson/Silva

Zangetsu
02-06-2011, 04:16 PM
It's probably an issue of timing more than anything else. The LHW belt has not been defended since May, and there aren't any other better LHWs who would be available for that March card.

Interesting note: Jones opened as the betting favorite today.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/22369/ufc-128-opening-line-jon-jones-a-favorite-over-champ-shogun-rua.mma

saveur
02-06-2011, 07:01 PM
Interesting note: Jones opened as the betting favorite today.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/22369/ufc-128-opening-line-jon-jones-a-favorite-over-champ-shogun-rua.mma
Not a real surprise. I think the public will be heavy on Jones for this matchup. I expect the line to go up to around -250 by the time of the fight. It's actually already moved from the opening -150 to -190 at some places.

dw13
02-06-2011, 08:41 PM
Not a real surprise. I think the public will be heavy on Jones for this matchup. I expect the line to go up to around -250 by the time of the fight. It's actually already moved from the opening -150 to -190 at some places.

If Jones closes at a 2.5/1 favorite I'll piss myself.

saveur
02-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Evans says if Jones wins he'll move to MW or HW.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/columns/story?id=6095452

boredguy
02-06-2011, 10:33 PM
I've really never understood the not wanting to fight your friend stuff in MMA.

Chilly_Willy
02-08-2011, 02:42 PM
I was a fan of Miguel Angel Torres and happy he won but I am not sure what to make of this transition period he is in. the anouncers went on and on about how he is training with GSP's camp and it shows from this fight with the "jab to a decision" and "fight not to loose" strategy. Miguel used to be a freestyle beast but can't blame a guy for switching it up after a couple disappointing losses. I saw a little of the Miguel of old come out in the 3rd but he mainly stuck to a GSP game plan. Wish him the best of luck, would just hate to see another "jab to decision" champion in a different weight class.

dw13
02-08-2011, 02:58 PM
He fights for Greg Jackson now. Get used to it. No longer will he go into a fight without a gameplan.

two24four
02-10-2011, 06:53 PM
42,000 tickets where sold in one day today for the UFC event in Toronto in late April.

Crazy, that's all they where planning on selling, I wonder if they will open it up more and try for 50,000

b_illin
02-11-2011, 06:42 PM
42,000 tickets where sold in one day today for the UFC event in Toronto in late April.

Crazy, that's all they where planning on selling, I wonder if they will open it up more and try for 50,000

Why anyone would pay money to see this at the Dome amazes me - better bring your binoculars!

two24four
02-11-2011, 06:47 PM
Why anyone would pay money to see this at the Dome amazes me - better bring your binoculars!

Up in the 500's I agree, not a chance I would buy a ticket for the UFC to sit up there, anywhere else would not be so bad.

They got 68,000+ in there back in '02 for a WWE event.

two24four
02-12-2011, 02:53 PM
New UFC record, the Rogers Centre is sold out for UFC 129.

55,000 tickets sold.

saveur
02-12-2011, 11:56 PM
Big Foot Silva takes out Fedor of the Grand Prix! Huge upset!

Great night of fights for Strikeforce! 4/5 main card fights didn't even make it out of the 1st round.

dw13
02-12-2011, 11:56 PM
Later Fedor.

keyboard
02-13-2011, 11:53 AM
I thought the fights were pretty awful.

Fedor said that might be his last fight, even though he just signed a new contract.

keyboard
02-20-2011, 11:53 AM
Jones now at -200.

dw13
02-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Tito out of the fight with Little Nog and they got Phil Davis in! A big step up for Davis, he has awesome potential.

That Fight Night card looks awesome for a freebie:

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Phil Davis
Dan Hardy vs. Anthony Johnson
Duane "Bang" Ludwig vs. Amir Sadollah
Leonard Garcia vs. Nam Phan

mrtybrodur30
02-21-2011, 01:54 AM
Tito out of the fight with Little Nog and they got Phil Davis in! A big step up for Davis, he has awesome potential.

That Fight Night card looks awesome for a freebie:

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Phil Davis
Dan Hardy vs. Anthony Johnson
Duane "Bang" Ludwig vs. Amir Sadollah
Leonard Garcia vs. Nam Phan
Still dont know how Nam Phan lost that fight, hope he wins this time around.

dw13
02-23-2011, 01:35 PM
Sounds like because of Silva testing positive in his win over Vera, that Vera has been brought back to the UFC.

saveur
02-26-2011, 10:50 PM
Another case of terrible judging. Fukuda got screwed bad.

...and again (although not as bad this time I guess). Fitch should have won that. BJ agrees.

Chilly_Willy
03-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Still dont know how Nam Phan lost that fight, hope he wins this time around.

Nam Phan lost that fight because he fought over- cautiously. The judges saw that he wasn't trying to finish and felt the other fighter, although less effective, brought more into the ring. A decision style I would like to see more of.

If Nam brings it and doesn't sit back for decision he should have not problem beating Garcia. I like Nam but I felt you could visibly detect that he felt he won round 1 and 2 so he wasn't going to fight the 3rd.

If Garcia doesn't do something to tighten up his technique he stands no chance in this fight. I like his heart but not sure he will get another fight in the UFC if he is just Garcia Wild Man Hay-maker

Chilly_Willy
03-01-2011, 09:39 AM
Another case of terrible judging. Fukuda got screwed bad.

...and again (although not as bad this time I guess). Fitch should have won that. BJ agrees.

That was such a wonderful UFC, and yes Fitch got robbed. The scoring system in MMA needs some reform. That last round should have been 10-0. Maybe 10-.0000001 if you factor in the triangle attempt.

Really bummed to not see Carlos Condit fight but actually the new matchup was very entertaining. When I saw the cartwheel kick I though what the heck this is gonna be retarded but then that guy survives like 10 chokes. Need to match that guy up against mr choke artist from last TUF.

I don't think we need a Fitch BJ rematch. I hope Dana does the right thing and manages like that fight was unofficially won by Fitch.

Zangetsu
03-01-2011, 10:52 AM
I actually didn't mind the scoring in the Penn/Fitch fight. I gave the first two rounds to Penn, and I was hoping the judges would give Fitch a 10-8 in the third, but I never count on it, so I was worried that the fight wouldn't be scored a draw.

I do think that Fitch would win a rematch fairly easily. Like he said after the fight, he simply wasn't expecting BJ to try taking him down.

dw13
03-01-2011, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I agree with Zang. If anything I thought maybe the judges wouldn't give the 10-8 that Fitch deserved. They normally struggle to ever give 10-8 rounds these days. I had Penn in the first two quite easily as well.

And yeah, Fitch would win a rematch.

dw13
03-03-2011, 11:14 PM
Incredibly gutsy performance by Diego.

Still, I had Kampmann getting the first two and winning 29-28.

boredguy
03-04-2011, 02:18 AM
Yeah, i thought Kampmann shoulda won too, but it seems when it's left to the judges it's more of a coin flip than anything else.

keyboard
03-04-2011, 09:10 AM
He stuffed takedowns all night except one and it's a shame that cost him the fight.

Zangetsu
03-04-2011, 05:43 PM
Yup, I had Kampmann winning, but you have to respect Diego for coming forward despite the damage he was taking.

keyboard
03-04-2011, 09:46 PM
Yup, I had Kampmann winning, but you have to respect Diego for coming forward despite the damage he was taking.
I'd respect him more if he didn't so much damage in the first place. :lol:

Zangetsu
03-05-2011, 02:16 AM
True enough. Kampmann's fourteen takedown defenses definitely didn't give Diego many options.

keyboard
03-05-2011, 07:34 AM
True enough. Kampmann's fourteen takedown defenses definitely didn't give Diego many options.
In reading over the judging of a fight, I really don't understand how Sanchez won that fight. Clean strikes, octagon control, and aggressiveness are the big three categories and you'd think Kampmann landing more strikes (clearly in two of the three rounds), stuffing takedowns (though he was back tracking for the second half of the fight), and forcing his opponent to change his game plan entirely and really Guida the whole fight, I don't know... really seemed like a pretty obvious win for Kampmann.

It felt like a lot of people recently were getting upset with how timid fighters have become, not "going for broke", and this fight being scored for Sanchez might be some kind of warning/sign that judging may be changing. It's stupid though because Kampmann's camp did an absolutely amazing job countering Sanchez's game plan coming into the fight, and lost because Sanchez for one round had nothing to lose and went for it.

Dana White's Twitter indicates to me that the old school brawling style is preferred to a strategic striking style and that's a shame because Sanchez will get absolutely annihilated by any of the top 5 in the division.

Chilly_Willy
03-05-2011, 07:21 PM
I am in favor of the Sanchez decision although I have to agree from a technical scoring system I don't see how Kampmann lost. I am just happy that it sends the message to technical fighters that if you don't put your opponent away then you roll the dice on the fight.

You see I do like the beauty of the technical fighters and I respect defense but I think the sport needs to move on from fighters feeling like they are going to win decision before the fight is over. The sport needs to have a decision process that does not allow decision anticipation to factor into how fighters execute strategy. Decisions should be an outcome of an undecided contest, not a vehicle for a fighter to coast to victory. Random and contraversial decisions help that along.

dw13
03-05-2011, 08:13 PM
Are you fucking kidding me? You talk like there is a problem being 'technical' he 'technically' outclassed Sanchez on their feet and 'technically' stuffed all his takedowns. He absolutely abused him, did you see Sanchez face at the end of the fight?

A month ago you cried for a scoring system that was all about damage. So let me ask you, who inflected more damage?

If you think Kampmann went out in the 3rd round 'coasting' you need to watch and appreciate the sport much more.

It was a joke of a decision anyway you want to judge it. He won the first two, he inflected more damage, he was more aggressive, he had more control and he executed much better.

I KNEW you were going to come in here and say you were in favor of Diego winning.

Go watch backyard brawls on youtube.

Chilly_Willy
03-05-2011, 09:13 PM
Go watch ballet.

I never said Kampmann fight was an example of a coaster like a GSP fight. I am just saying the more decisions that don't award a technical performance sends a message. Whether or not the decision was accurate I like the outcome, finish your fight.

dw13
03-05-2011, 09:17 PM
Go watch ballet.

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/181615/diego_sanchez_face.jpg

Yeah, looks like a ballet to me.

I have absolutely no idea how any could see this fight in Diego's favor. Even if you gave the 3rd round 10-8 to Diego (it wasn't that lopsided) it's still a draw. Kampmann woops ass for 10 minutes, Diego for 5. Figure it out.

It was a joke of a decision.

Chilly_Willy
03-05-2011, 09:18 PM
Yes look at that face, that is the face of a guy the looser did not finish.

I don't have the best memory but I don't recall ever being in favor of a damage driven scoring system. Most of the scoring reform I want to see is weed out evade counter to a decision fighters. Two different topics because I don't think that applied to this fight.

dw13
03-05-2011, 09:30 PM
Yes look at that face, that is the face of a guy the looser did not finish.

I don't have the best memory but I don't recall ever being in favor of a damage driven scoring system. Most of the scoring reform I want to see is weed out evade counter to a decision fighters. Two different topics because I don't think that applied to this fight.

So you're trying to tell me Kampmann didn't attempt to finish him? Did you actually watch the first two rounds? Or did you just forget about them after the 3rd?

I don't think Diego finished Kampmann either, or didn't try to finish him in the first 2 rounds. What's the difference?

saveur
03-05-2011, 09:38 PM
I have absolutely no idea how any could see this fight in Diego's favor. Even if you gave the 3rd round 10-8 to Diego (it wasn't that lopsided) it's still a draw. Kampmann woops ass for 10 minutes, Diego for 5. Figure it out.

It was a joke of a decision.
Ignoring how bad Diego looked after the fight, I could definately see how the judges scored it in his favour. I may be a bit biased since I had some money on Sanchez but here's how I remember it:

Round 1: Easily Kampmann 10-9.
Round 2: Very, very close. Sanchez was the aggressor and landed some nice shots but ate a lot of shots. Could have went either way in my eyes.
Round 3: Close again but Sanchez was even more aggressive than round 2 and even got a takedown (that he did nothing with, but still). Sanchez 10-9.

Waiting for the judges decision, I thought it was going to be a split decision for Kampmann. Was really surprised to hear it scored as a unanimous decision and even more surprised it was in favour of Sanchez. But it wasn't a robbery IMO, especially since I don't think the judges put much weight into stuffing takedowns.

dw13
03-05-2011, 09:46 PM
I think you should watch the fight again. The second round was clearly Kampmann.

Owell. Just can't stand horrible decisions, and then the losing fighter getting chastised.

keyboard
03-05-2011, 09:55 PM
I never said Kampmann fight was an example of a coaster like a GSP fight.
This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life.

dw13
03-05-2011, 10:04 PM
I never said Kampmann fight was an example of a coaster like a GSP fight. I am just saying the more decisions that don't award a technical performance sends a message. Whether or not the decision was accurate I like the outcome, finish your fight.

Diego didn't finish him. My lord. He had a good third round, that doesn't mean he finished him.

saveur
03-05-2011, 10:07 PM
I think you should watch the fight again. The second round was clearly Kampmann.

Owell. Just can't stand horrible decisions, and then the losing fighter getting chastised.

Okay, I went and rewatched the 2nd round (not the 1st or 3rd). I still stand by my assessment. It was very, very close but Sanchez was the aggressor.

Can you tell me why you think Kampmann won that round easily?

EDIT: Sorry, I misworded my post. It was very, very close because Sanchez was the aggressor.

dw13
03-05-2011, 10:10 PM
Okay, I went and rewatched the 2nd round (not the 1st or 3rd). I still stand by my assessment. It was very, very close but Sanchez was the aggressor.
Can you tell me why you think Kampmann won that round easily?

Landed much more clean shots, stuffed Diego and inflicted much more damage.

I just never thought in a million years when watching that fight live that Diego won that 2nd round.

saveur
03-05-2011, 10:37 PM
Landed much more clean shots, stuffed Diego and inflicted much more damage.

I just never thought in a million years when watching that fight live that Diego won that 2nd round.
He landed more punches and stuffed takedowns, but it's hard to say (judge) if he inflicted more damage. Diego didn't really stagger from any of the shots and on the other side it did seem that Kampmann got buckled a bit close to the end of the round.

Under the current judging system, I think Sanchez did what he needed to do to keep the round close by being more aggressive and not showing if the punches he was taking were doing much damage.

dw13
03-05-2011, 10:44 PM
He landed more punches and stuffed takedowns, but it's hard to say (judge) if he inflicted more damage. Diego didn't really stagger from any of the shots and on the other side it did seem that Kampmann got buckled a bit close to the end of the round.

Under the current judging system, I think Sanchez did what he needed to do to keep the round close by being more aggressive and not showing if the punches he was taking were doing much damage.

Fair enough.

Atleast you have an argument and grounds for it. Not "he didn't try to finish him, he should lose"

mrtybrodur30
03-05-2011, 11:32 PM
I think it looked closer to 30-27 Kampmann but for sure 29-28 Kampmann. He was more accurate and landed more than Diego in every round. Yeah Diego had 1 takedown, which could be scored big if he only went for 3 attemps all fight, but he went for 15! Kampmann did a ton of damage with shots that might not wow people but they were clean and precise you could tell that easily by looking at Diego's face.

Chilly_Willy
03-05-2011, 11:48 PM
This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life.

Somehow I doubt that :lol:

Chilly_Willy
03-05-2011, 11:51 PM
Diego didn't finish him. My lord. He had a good third round, that doesn't mean he finished him.

True but as hamburger as Diego's face was he still came closer to finishing

saveur
03-06-2011, 12:08 AM
Henderson wins the Strikeforce LHW championship. Nice.

keyboard
03-06-2011, 08:14 AM
In reading over the judging there is no reason to believe Sanchez should have won that fight. The only way he won is if stuffing take downs counts for nothing, which isn't true.

And yes, saying GSP coasts in his fights is about as stupid a comment you can say considering he's one of the P4P best.

saveur
03-06-2011, 01:01 PM
In reading over the judging there is no reason to believe Sanchez should have won that fight. The only way he won is if stuffing take downs counts for nothing, which isn't true.

And yes, saying GSP coasts in his fights is about as stupid a comment you can say considering he's one of the P4P best.
Yeah, remember the Okami-Munoz fight? Remember how it was only a split decision for Okami even though all Munoz did was hump Okami's leg for 3 rounds?

I don't think the judges care much about takedown defense. In fact, they probably see it more in the favour of the guy getting stuffed since he's not only pushing the fight (aggression) but he's also not allowing the other guy fight the fight he wants by being in close (octagon control). i.e. Kampmann wasn't "allowed" to stay on the outside and strike (which is what he wanted to do) because Diego wasn't giving him any breathing room.

Is that how a fight should be judged? No. But that's probably how it is judged.

Chilly_Willy
03-06-2011, 03:42 PM
In reading over the judging there is no reason to believe Sanchez should have won that fight. The only way he won is if stuffing take downs counts for nothing, which isn't true.

And yes, saying GSP coasts in his fights is about as stupid a comment you can say considering he's one of the P4P best.

GSP is a P4P best but that doesn't mean he doesn't coast. He comes into fights with a decision game plan, if an opportunity to KO or submit pops up he takes it but secondary strategy to winning by decision. A game plan allowed by a flawed scoring system.

dw13
03-12-2011, 01:42 PM
Wow Zuffa/Dana has bought Strikeforce.

Oh and didn't see your last post Chilly. What other scoring system would make GSP not as great as he is? You're crazy, man.

saveur
03-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Wow Zuffa/Dana has bought Strikeforce.

Oh and didn't see your last post Chilly. What other scoring system would make GSP not as great as he is? You're crazy, man.

Fucking crazy. (about Zuffa buying Strikeforce)

dw13
03-12-2011, 02:01 PM
Fucking crazy. (about Zuffa buying Strikeforce)

Interesting, isn't it?

saveur
03-12-2011, 02:06 PM
Interesting, isn't it?

How long do you think it'll be before they decide to merge Strikeforce into the UFC?

I give it 2-3 years.

dw13
03-12-2011, 02:11 PM
How long do you think it'll be before they decide to merge Strikeforce into the UFC?

I give it 2-3 years.

To be honest, I'm not sure what they're planning on doing. I'm sure SF has contracts that need to be honored but there are certainly fighters in SF that need to be moved into the UFC and visa versa. Not sure how it'll work but it'll come to fruition sooner then 2-3 years. Possibly a merge, or some other transformation.

Showtime will play a big part in it as well.

saveur
03-12-2011, 04:34 PM
To be honest, I'm not sure what they're planning on doing. I'm sure SF has contracts that need to be honored but there are certainly fighters in SF that need to be moved into the UFC and visa versa. Not sure how it'll work but it'll come to fruition sooner then 2-3 years. Possibly a merge, or some other transformation.

Showtime will play a big part in it as well.
Dana White said in his interview that it'll be "business as usual" (he was very adamant about this). Fighters will not be moving between Strikeforce and the UFC unless their contracts are up.

It took ~4 years for them to merge the WEC into the UFC. So it could be the same here.

dw13
03-12-2011, 05:10 PM
I just don't see this project that similar to the WEC. The WEC was very thin in talent when Zuffa picked them up. They grew and became really well known and the weightclasses were needed in the UFC.

I think the big thing right now is Showtime for Strikeforce. Not knowing when that contract is up, etc, I think fighters will switch from SF to UFC in much less then a few years.

Who knows.

mrtybrodur30
03-12-2011, 05:32 PM
Pretty crazy. I too think it will be sooner than later before we see something happening. It was funny when Dana White said Paul Daley will still fight with Strikeforce till his contract was up and still will never fight in the UFC. Still cant believe Daley did that after the Koscheck fight, what an idiot.

saveur
03-12-2011, 05:58 PM
Pretty crazy. I too think it will be sooner than later before we see something happening. It was funny when Dana White said Paul Daley will still fight with Strikeforce till his contract was up and still will never fight in the UFC. Still cant believe Daley did that after the Koscheck fight, what an idiot.
It gets worse. This is what he posted on facebook:


"Business as usual, what if i dont wanna fight for DANA WHITE/ZUFFA?......Dana white bans me for life from the UFC, Then buys STRIKEFORCE, and thinks im still gonna be EASY and fight on one of the most anticipated fights of the year (vs Diaz)? Which will no doubt make ZUFFA/Dana White money.

Daley vs Diaz still on?.....Someone better holla at my manager real quick."

and


"Not sure what im gonna do right now, honestly... fight for the Strikeforce and be Strikeforce champ, put money in ZUFFA/Dana Whites pockets? Or fight here in the UK for BAMMA, who appreciate my brand, and have my loyal fans, family and media support me. For real."

"I have a great deal at BAMMA(.com) and make just as much money, believe or not...as i do in the USA. They appreciate my services, and what i bring to the company. There is till alot of competition out there, NOT all the best fighters are with the UFC/STRIKEFORCE, just they get the most recognition."

What a smart fellow.

Zangetsu
03-12-2011, 07:00 PM
Interesting stuff. Definitely didn't see this coming.

Chilly_Willy
03-12-2011, 09:06 PM
Wow Zuffa/Dana has bought Strikeforce.

Oh and didn't see your last post Chilly. What other scoring system would make GSP not as great as he is? You're crazy, man.

I love how you always put words in my mouth, where have I ever said GSP is not a great fighter, please show me? GSP is one of the greats. I always just imply that current scoring allows him to bring and win boring fights, that's all. Current scoring allows a fighter to come in intending to win by decision. If you don't find GSP fights boring all the power to you :beer:

Wow too bad, UFC always brought more of a quality fight but strike force was interesting. It was also a nice change of pace to see the female fighters sometimes. I wonder how things will change is Dana going to integrate the leagues or keep them seperate.

Maybe he can create a decision only league, JK dawinna ;)

mrtybrodur30
03-12-2011, 09:44 PM
Thanks for posting those Daley comments Saveur I didnt see those but yeah I agree making those comments are pretty dumb. lol its like he wants to be let go from StrikeForce.

CayugaPosse
03-13-2011, 04:15 AM
"One of the most anticipated fights of the year vs Nick Diaz"

Paul Daley vs Nick Diaz is one of the most anticipated fights of the year?

That's some serious news to this guy. Don't get me wrong, it's a good fight. But in the next month we have GSP vs Jake Shields, Jose Aldo's UFC debut, and Shogun vs Jon Jones. In the next month.

Side note, a few catchups...

1 - Not that he does, or should, really care, but I will no longer be responding to anything Chilly_Willy says in this thread, because he is a complete lost cause. Jesus dude.

2 - I guess I'll be the guy that backs up saveur...I actually thought it was Diego's fight.

The thing that alot of people keep saying is Kampmann scored so many points for stuffing takedowns, but as much as they "do" count for something, they kind of don't. If you've stuffed 12 takedowns in two rounds it means two things. One, you've done a good job of shutting down your opponent's game plan. Good for you. Two, he's working way harder than you are. Good for him.

The second round I thought was Diego. I don't think there's any questions about 1 or 3 so obviously it's round 2 that's drawing the attention. Sanchez was the agressor for most of the round, arguably did the most damage inside that round(the punch that cut Kampmann that bothered him the rest of the round).

I'll agree it's pretty thin, but I think there's been a gigantic over-reaction in this thread and elswhere.

Saying Martin Kampmann was "robbed" is silly. I don't see how you can watch round 2 and say it's so clearly Kampmann's round that it's embarassing he lost the fight. Not even close.

What you COULD say is the fight could/should have been scored a draw, with Kampmann taking the first round 10-8. Then I'd be right there with you. I think it's a shame 10-8 rounds are basically saved for the most embarassingly lopsided rounds in human history. Kampmann won round one 10-8 in my opinion, if I were judging a fight. Sadly, in modern MMA, that wasn't a 10-8 round, and Diego(maybe) got the next 2.

Chilly_Willy
03-13-2011, 09:05 AM
Last post in this thread, differnece of oppinion noted. Was fun chatting with you guys.

dw13
03-13-2011, 10:22 AM
Ah, Cmon Chilly! Even though most of us don't agree with your opinions we're all for hearing it!

keyboard
03-13-2011, 12:06 PM
The thing that alot of people keep saying is Kampmann scored so many points for stuffing takedowns, but as much as they "do" count for something, they kind of don't. If you've stuffed 12 takedowns in two rounds it means two things. One, you've done a good job of shutting down your opponent's game plan. Good for you. Two, he's working way harder than you are. Good for him.You're completely downplaying the importance of takedown defense which goes against the judging system.

Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:

Clean Strikes
Effective Grappling
Octagon Control
Effective Aggressiveness


If anyone believes Sanchez for at least rounds landed cleaner strikes, effective grappling, and effective aggressiveness, that's pretty messed up.

Octagon Control is the only one up for debate but when you look at how that is broken down:
A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.So you're wrong, Sanchez's constant takedown failures were not "good for him".

CayugaPosse
03-13-2011, 08:40 PM
Ah, Cmon Chilly! Even though most of us don't agree with your opinions we're all for hearing it!

Agreed I suppose, I have no problem with you stating your opinion, I just personally said I won't be responding anymore because it's frustrating to me to try to explain to fans like you(of which there are MANY) my viewpoints on MMA, because it's just a difference of opinion that's never going to change.

I mean, if you can watch GSP vs Dan Hardy and say GSP was coasting and looking for a decision, then I don't know how we can ever really have a discussion about MMA because at the very basest of levels, you're literally seeing a different fight than me apparantly.

keyboard
03-13-2011, 11:44 PM
You guys are too nice.

Zangetsu
03-18-2011, 08:08 PM
Shalorus over Miller
Schaub over CroCop
Marquardt over Miller
Faber over Wineland
Jones over Shogun

Sad to be picking against two of my all-time favorites, but CroCop is done, and I just don't like Shogun's chances against the reach and quickness of Jones.

dw13
03-18-2011, 10:59 PM
Miller > Shalorus
Schaub > CroCop
Nate > Miller
Faber > Wineland

Don't know about the main event.

dw13
03-19-2011, 11:53 PM
Unreal.

No more needs to be said.

Zangetsu
03-20-2011, 12:47 AM
The kid is special. Hoping he comes back to his old high school for some kind of celebration. I'm working there right now, and I'd love to get a chance to see some UFC gold in person.

saveur
03-21-2011, 01:17 PM
Shogun seemed to gas pretty early (injury layoff?). Still an impressive win by Jones though.

Hockeyis#1
03-21-2011, 10:17 PM
I'm not sure if I'm more surprised by how good Jones looked, or by how awful Shogun looked. He literally mounted a negligible amount of offense

dw13
03-22-2011, 12:11 PM
Has to be the best Fight Night they've ever had this coming weekend.

Zangetsu
03-22-2011, 12:53 PM
Agreed. This weekend's card is better than some of the PPV's that were put on in the last year.

dw13
03-22-2011, 06:39 PM
Agreed. This weekend's card is better than some of the PPV's that were put on in the last year.

Yeah, I agree. I'm really looking forward to it. As much as I was to last weeks card.

keyboard
03-22-2011, 10:16 PM
That Machida Era sure was short lived.

mrtybrodur30
03-23-2011, 02:11 AM
That Machida Era sure was short lived.LOL!!!! :lol:

It ended? I thought it wasnt supposed to end till atleast like 2014. Karate was BACK!