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Zangetsu
04-21-2010, 11:52 PM
Watching the promos for WEC 48 during TUF has really got me excited for Saturday's card. I've been excited for MMA events in the past, but I don't know if I've ever been this pumped up for a card. Top to bottom, the main card is just loaded with FOTY candidates (with Brown/Gamburyan being the lone exception). After the disappointments of the last few major MMA events, this one is almost a can't miss.

Hockeyis#1
04-22-2010, 06:04 AM
well I definitely agree that I thought Hendo would be able to fight off the takedowns, but, IMO either A) Hendo's age really caught up to him B) his neck and other injuries are worse then he really makes it out to be or C) Shields wrestling is really legit.

Either way, we saw enough from Shields to want him in the UFC and get him back down to WW.I've never doubted the 'legit-ness' of Shields wrestling. It seemed to me like Hendo didn't even try to defend at all from the parts I saw. Shields striking from the dominant position on the ground looked kinda weak too....not to mention him getting owned standing in round 1.

dw13
04-22-2010, 08:55 AM
Watching the promos for WEC 48 during TUF has really got me excited for Saturday's card. I've been excited for MMA events in the past, but I don't know if I've ever been this pumped up for a card. Top to bottom, the main card is just loaded with FOTY candidates (with Brown/Gamburyan being the lone exception). After the disappointments of the last few major MMA events, this one is almost a can't miss.

You're telling me man. It's going to be absolutely can't miss. WEC always puts on a great show... add in Goldie and Joe commentating it for the night. I'm going to be in heaven.

dw13
04-24-2010, 05:26 PM
WEC48 tonight.

Pumped.

Chilly_Willy
04-24-2010, 08:47 PM
WOW!! Prelims Jung vs. Garcia holy shit!!!

Chilly_Willy
04-24-2010, 11:35 PM
Aww that was heartbreaking to watch. Aldo with those leg kicks Fabor was absolutely dominated. Man Seems like Fighters that can throw the leg kicks are owning. Shogun , Silva, Aldo remember Jardin on Ladel.

With Silva and Aldo at the top end and lower end of the weight classes 2 brazilian champs that the MMA world doesn't seem to have an answer for. Not to mention Machida and Shugun. Soccer and MMA ownership from that south american powerhouse

Fabor is such an exciting fighter but his stockey frame I think hurts him when he gets in with the taller fighters that have the range on him.

dw13
04-24-2010, 11:38 PM
Not even in the same class. Aldo is the best 45'er in the world, Faber is just part of the rest behind him. Gamburyan could possibly give Aldo some trouble because he knows he won't be able to strike with him. Aldo's BJJ is top notch but if you can out wrestle him you might be able to possibly win.

By the way, Gamburyan's KO was the shock of the night.

Zangetsu
04-25-2010, 01:26 AM
Wow.

Aldo is going to be extremely tough to beat for a long time. He showed that he isn't just athleticism and skill. He fought a very intelligent fight, as well.

Faber seemed to be keeping up with him, more or less, for the first round, but those leg kicks just completely took Faber out of the fight. I give full credit to Faber, though. That guy is tough.

And, yeah, that Jung/Garcia fight was ridiculous. I had Jung winning the fight, but when both guys are consistently landing big shots like that, it makes judging a fight incredibly difficult, so I could see why the judges gave it to Garcia.

Chilly_Willy
04-25-2010, 02:13 AM
I really love the WEC they were the first MMA organization I followed but after I got to know the UFC I realized the UFC really has most of the best talent in the world. I think Aldo just ellivated the WEC to a whole new level. I can see world fighters clamoring into WEC to get a chance at him.

Faber is one of my favorite fighters. He truely is a peoples champion. I think he suffered a bit from being a big fish in a small pond, I know that this loss is going to haunt him because he wants to be the best in the world in his weight class and this and last year have to have clinched the fact that he isn't. Will be interesting to see how he responds. I also thought Aldo was very classy in his title defense, whether it was calculated or genuine he addressed the crowd in sacramento and also attempted some thanks in English. I was pretty impressed. The WEC has to be happy, huge night for them.

Dubz
04-25-2010, 03:03 AM
Meh...I thought the fight was almost as bad as the last A Silva bout. Just didnt do it for me. But that Garcia fight was entertaining as hell....both fighters have mediocre skills (generous to say imo) but they left it in the ring. Good stuff....although im not sold on the decision.

Zangetsu
04-25-2010, 12:50 PM
Meh...I thought the fight was almost as bad as the last A Silva bout. Just didnt do it for me. But that Garcia fight was entertaining as hell....both fighters have mediocre skills (generous to say imo) but they left it in the ring. Good stuff....although im not sold on the decision.

The difference between the Aldo/Silva fights was that Faber is a threat to Aldo on his feet. Maia posed no threat to Silva in the stand up game. Aldo fought a smart fight. I don't know what to call the strategy that Silva employed. Arrogant? Defiant? Just plain weird?

Either way, Aldo did nothing but elevate his stock in this fight, while Silva has people questioning his cardio/desire/mentality. If you didn't find the Aldo/Faber match entertaining, I suppose some people might not have been impressed by Aldo's dominance, but there's no way it was the same kind of fight as any of the Silva vs. Cote/Leites/Maia fights.

Dubz
04-25-2010, 01:38 PM
"So, Im not an expert.":lol:

In the sense that both champs should have finished their opponents I do see a glaring similarity. Not to say either arent the best at what they do....it seems that the killer instinct was somewhat lacking in the latter rounds.

Is it too much to ask for the champ to finish their opponent? Isnt that the HUGE knock on GSP? He really tried to finish that last fight....but couldnt. Perhaps he didnt want to break the guys arm? IDK but this is the toughest sport in the world hands down and I hope that killer instinct isnt slightly fading. I know thats a stretch and more than likely somewhat of a false statement but like I said that fight didnt do it for me.:\

Zangetsu
04-25-2010, 02:00 PM
There's still a difference between Silva and Aldo, though. Unless you've never seen Aldo fight before, I don't know how you can say he doesn't have a "killer instinct." If anything, his inability to finish Faber just speaks to how much he respects Faber's striking.

I don't mind when a fighter chooses to fight intelligently, limiting their opponent's opportunities to land a lucky punch. GSP's experience in the first Serra fight seems to have definitely changed his approach, but it didn't change the fact that he's the best WW in the world.

In Aldo's case, Faber did land some heavy strikes in the first round, and although his mobility was definitely limited by the fourth/fifth rounds, had Aldo closed the distance himself, he would only have been helping Faber. By staying out of Faber's effective striking range, he was basically applying MMA's version of hockey's trap. Yeah, it's not the most exciting strategy, but it works.

Also, to be fair, Aldo landed a significant head kick that Faber just shrugged off, and many refs would have stopped the fight while Aldo had Faber in the crucifix mount.

Dubz
04-25-2010, 02:21 PM
Yeah, it's not the most exciting strategy, but it works.

Also, to be fair, Aldo landed a significant head kick that Faber just shrugged off, and many refs would have stopped the fight while Aldo had Faber in the crucifix mount.

Yeah....your probably right.:beer:

Zangetsu
04-25-2010, 02:36 PM
I think one thing we can agree on is that Faber is an extremely tough guy. I mean we already knew how tough he was after fighting four rounds with a broken hand against Brown, but his leg was really messed up. A lot of guys probably would've not answered the bell for the fourth/fifth rounds, or they would've taken the opportunity to tap when Aldo had the crucifix mount.

:yes::yes: to Faber. Will always be a big fan of his, despite the cornrows/impossible butt chin.

YouTube- FIGHT! Life - Urijah Faber: Trouble in Bali

Zangetsu
04-25-2010, 06:20 PM
Ouch! Faber's been posting pics of his leg on his twitter.

Last night

http://nikonizer.yfrog.com/Himg217/scaled.php?tn=0&server=217&filename=9wc.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

This morning

http://nikonizer.yfrog.com/Himg690/scaled.php?tn=0&server=690&filename=tdcc.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Couple hours ago

http://nikonizer.yfrog.com/Himg263/scaled.php?tn=0&server=263&filename=iqn.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Zangetsu
04-26-2010, 04:53 PM
Tito Ortiz was arrested this morning on suspicion of domestic violence.

Also, another Faber leg update:

http://nikonizer.yfrog.com/Himg171/scaled.php?tn=0&server=171&filename=g9r.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Aldo stopped kicking him after the third round, so he Faber fought the last two rounds with all that damage.

Chilly_Willy
04-27-2010, 12:06 AM
Dang that is nasty. I don't think I have ever had a bruise that big.

dw13
04-27-2010, 10:23 AM
According to FightMetric, Aldo landed an astounding 112 punches to Faber's 24. In an astonishing comparison, featherweights Leonard Garcia and Chan Sung Jung, who engaged in an instant classic slugfest that earned WEC 48's "Fight of the Night," only landed 124 punches – combined.


For those who saw both fights and think Aldo didn't really engage with Faber.

Chilly_Willy
04-27-2010, 07:48 PM
LOL I think Garcia and Chan Sung Jung swung about 500 though :)

Zangetsu
04-28-2010, 05:23 PM
LOL I think Garcia and Chan Sung Jung swung about 500 though :)Yeah, 27/125 power punches to the head for Garcia pretty much sums up that fight. Still, it was an entertaining way to start the night.

Sonnen/Silva is on for UFC 117 in August. The talk leading up to this fight could be pretty entertaining. The fight itself could also be interesting. Will Silva look to shut Dana up and finish it quick? Will Sonnen be able to take the Anderson to the ground and grind out a decision victory?

Chilly_Willy
04-28-2010, 06:23 PM
The last Silva fight Silva came off to me as really disinterested. I think he was saying is this the best you can throw at me?? If he starts underestimating his opponents one of these fights he is going to get knocked on his can. Some experts think Silva actually tiered himself out with all his antics and could safely finish the fight. I hope we get to see someone challenge him soon.

I can't wait for Machida Shogun II but I have a feeling it won't live up to the first fight. That was an awesome fight. Do you think Shogun will bring the leg kicks again? Do you think Machida will have an answer for it?

Zangetsu
04-28-2010, 09:13 PM
All the information coming out of the Rua camp is indicating that Shogun is planning for another striking match. Unless Machida has significantly altered his Shotokan stance, Shogun will probably have the option of throwing mid/low kicks again.

I'm pretty nervous about this fight, but I'm hopeful that Shogun will have similar success. I'm also hopeful that Cecil Peoples won't be cageside.

snoopzen
04-28-2010, 10:32 PM
On the lighter side of MMA...
YouTube- Alexander Emelianenko VS Eddy Bengtsson

Zangetsu
04-29-2010, 12:43 AM
You're doing it wrong. The favorite is supposed to take the fall. Seriously, what was that?

After tonight's fight on TUF (what a sad excuse for a fight that was), I'm thinking it's time for the UFC to ditch its current format. Instead of trying to find the next big thing (the sport has changed, elite prospects will never compete on TUF again), TUF could be used to determine who stays in the UFC and who goes.

A lot of decent talent has been cut from the UFC roster in the last few years, and I'm sure some of those guys would be willing to fight their way back onto the UFC roster. Include a sizable contract for the winner, and borderline UFC fighters would probably jump at the chance to take one last shot at a UFC contract. Think of it as the TUF The Comeback season, minus the title shot.

dw13
04-29-2010, 10:15 AM
http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2010/0428/527870/jon-jones/index.shtml

Bones vs. Matyushenko, seems like a step down from Vera to me.

Zangetsu
04-29-2010, 02:36 PM
Yeah, that's some odd matchmaking there. I guess the thinking is that Jones isn't ready to be considered for title contention, so let's just give him a fight against a big name. "The Janitor" is an accomplished fighter, but he's about half a decade past his prime.

11-1* here we come.

dw13
04-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Yeah, that's some odd matchmaking there. I guess the thinking is that Jones isn't ready to be considered for title contention, so let's just give him a fight against a big name. "The Janitor" is an accomplished fighter, but he's about half a decade past his prime.

11-1* here we come.

It's been years since Maty was a true threat. He's a solid, big named fighter but nothing more then a gatekeeper.

It'll be fun watching Bones dismantle him:beer:

Chilly_Willy
05-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Anyone pumped for Dragon v. Shogun II.

My cables ppv event service has been f'd up 3 times and can't watch, I hope they fix it.

dw13
05-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Very excited.

Picks:


Champ Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (for light heavyweight title)
Paul Daley vs. Josh Koscheck
Jeremy Stephens vs. Sam Stout
Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson vs. Matt Mitrione
Alan Belcher vs. Patrick Cote

I also want to see Lawlor/Doerksen and TJ Grant/Johnny Hendricks on the undercard.

dw13
05-04-2010, 12:47 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/18983/jason-brilz-agrees-to-face-antonio-rogerio-nogueira-at-ufc-114.mma

Jason Brilz taking over for Forrest against Rogerio.

Horrible replacement.

Zangetsu
05-04-2010, 02:18 PM
I don't know if I'm excited or nervous for UFC 113.

I am not generally a superstitious person, but I'm going to forego picking the main event, though it's not like I could make an unbiased pick anyway. I'm just going to hope for justice.

Whether justice comes in the form of a dominant performance for Machida, proving that he deserved the win in the first fight, or a win for Shogun, I just don't want there to be any question about who won this time.

Kos over Daley
Stephens over Stout (these guys are both so inconsistent, tough to pick)
Mitrione over Slice
Belcher over Cote (Cote's been out of commission for so long, and we saw how Shogun looked in his first fight back)

Should be a good one.

Zangetsu
05-04-2010, 02:23 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/18983/jason-brilz-agrees-to-face-antonio-rogerio-nogueira-at-ufc-114.mma

Jason Brilz taking over for Forrest against Rogerio.

Horrible replacement.
Yeah, they might as well have just scrapped the fight altogether. I guess they must think Forrest is going to be out for a few months. Lil Nog is still a bit unknown to North American fans, so I suppose this is also an opportunity to get him in front of a NA crowd.

dw13
05-04-2010, 03:41 PM
Yeah, they might as well have just scrapped the fight altogether. I guess they must think Forrest is going to be out for a few months. Lil Nog is still a bit unknown to North American fans, so I suppose this is also an opportunity to get him in front of a NA crowd.

Yeah. I think Rogerio wanted to fight anyone instead of being scrapped.

The card definitely took a hit.

mrtybrodur30
05-04-2010, 05:48 PM
Its almost good for Forrest he got injured or whatever. Rogerio is a very bad matchup for him imo. I didnt envision it ending well for Forrest.

dw13
05-04-2010, 05:55 PM
Its almost good for Forrest he got injured or whatever. Rogerio is a very bad matchup for him imo. I didnt envision it ending well for Forrest.

Oh I agree, but watching Forrest get beat into a pulp is alot more entertaining then Brilz getting his face beat in.

Chilly_Willy
05-05-2010, 08:34 PM
I just noticed the UFC in July has Lesnar scheduled. Is he really fighting. That is good news considering what he has been through.

two24four
05-06-2010, 12:30 AM
I just noticed the UFC in July has Lesnar scheduled. Is he really fighting. That is good news considering what he has been through.

Yup he's back, he's taking on Carwin.

Lesner came in the ring not long ago after Carwin beat Mir.

two24four
05-06-2010, 01:18 PM
Dana said winner of the Paul Daley vs Josh Koshcheck fight this weekend will get next chance at fighting GSP.

dw13
05-06-2010, 01:36 PM
I don't get it. If Fitch beats Alves he's obviously the one most worthy, BY FAR.

Dana really, really doesn't like Fitch.

dw13
05-06-2010, 05:12 PM
Also, Thiago, who in great fashion KO'd Koscheck, still has to wait in the wings?

IMO, if Fitch beats Alves and Thiago beats Kampmann, the order should go:

1. Fitch
2. Thiago
3. Winner of Daley/Kos

Also, it's rumored that winner of Daley/Kos will fight GSP, and be the coaches TUF.

Zangetsu
05-06-2010, 06:47 PM
It does seem a bit unfair to Fitch, Alves, and Thiago, but I wonder how much all of Alves' injury issues have contributed to the confusion in the division. Had Fitch/Alves fought when they were originally scheduled to way back at 107 or even 111, I assume we'd be seeing the winner fighting GSP instead.

Although, I will say, Dana does seem to have some disdain for Fitch. I wonder if it goes back to the disagreement over the agreement with THQ. Then again Kos was also a part of that contract dispute as a member of AKA, so there must be something else going on there.

dw13
05-06-2010, 07:02 PM
It does seem a bit unfair to Fitch, Alves, and Thiago, but I wonder how much all of Alves' injury issues have contributed to the confusion in the division. Had Fitch/Alves fought when they were originally scheduled to way back at 107 or even 111, I assume we'd be seeing the winner fighting GSP instead.

Although, I will say, Dana does seem to have some disdain for Fitch. I wonder if it goes back to the disagreement over the agreement with THQ. Then again Kos was also a part of that contract dispute as a member of AKA, so there must be something else going on there.

Yeah. True on the Alves points.

As for Dana and Fitch... Cain is also one of Dana's boys, and he's at AKA as you know. So who knows.

I think if Fitch wins, he goes to 14-1 in the UFC. That's just incredible. Only losing to GSP.

He needs another shot.

Zangetsu
05-06-2010, 07:08 PM
Yeah, I was just trying to think of somebody with a better UFC record than Fitch, and the only guy I can think of is Anderson. GSP has two losses, and there are a bunch of guys with one or zero losses, but none of them have as many wins as Fitch.

dw13
05-06-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm watching Bellator tonight. Some decent fights.

I'll be flicking between Bellator, NBA and NHL.

dw13
05-06-2010, 08:05 PM
Pat Curran just beat Huerta in a decision.

Alvarez/Neer in a bit.

Zangetsu
05-06-2010, 08:15 PM
Totally forgot about that Bellator event, and this one isn't even being pushed off of MSG (NY's FSN) by the World Poker Tour or some dumb MSG Vault thing. Tuned in just in time for the introductions for Neer/Alvarez. Any of the other fights worth checking out?

Huerta sure isn't doing his MMA career any favors lately. He's lost three of four now, and he's lucky it's not four of five. Guida dominated their fight for the first two rounds.

dw13
05-06-2010, 08:23 PM
Totally forgot about that Bellator event, and this one isn't even being pushed off of MSG (NY's FSN) by the World Poker Tour or some dumb MSG Vault thing. Tuned in just in time for the introductions for Neer/Alvarez. Any of the other fights worth checking out?

Huerta sure isn't doing his MMA career any favors lately. He's lost three of four now, and he's lucky it's not four of five. Guida dominated their fight for the first two rounds.

Nothing too special but a good little card from Bellator.

Imada beat Varnier, and Curran looked somewhat sharp against Huerta who just doesn't look like he cares too much these days. He has talent, but who knows what he's up to in his off time.

I do like seeing Alvarez fight. Hopefully he becomes more active, maybe even trying to get in the Strikeforce/Dream deals.

dw13
05-06-2010, 08:26 PM
Alvarez finishes him in the second. I really do like Alvarez. He's a solid fighter, and would be a worthy addition to either SF to fight Melendez, or UFC to add into the top notch LW division.

Zangetsu
05-06-2010, 08:43 PM
Alvarez looked good. He's one of the more well rounded guys in his weight class, and that's saying a lot. Between the top-end guys in the WEC, Melendez, Aoki, Hansen, Kawajiri, and the stacked 155lb division in the UFC, the LW division should continue to be one of the most entertaining divisions in all of MMA for years to come.

CayugaPosse
05-07-2010, 01:33 AM
I don't get it. If Fitch beats Alves he's obviously the one most worthy, BY FAR.

Dana really, really doesn't like Fitch.

I think Dana's "hoping" that Paul Daley wins that fight. Daley hasn't had a shot yet, and we can talk about how green he is, but if he can handle Kos' ground game, they can certainly build him up as a legitimate threat to GSP, whether he is or isn't(he isn't).

Everyone else has already lost, and in the case of both Fitch and Alves, recently, and really, really decisively. It's hard to sell a rematch.

Also, Jon Fitch may be the most boring fighter in all of MMA. I can't remember the last time he had a fight I stayed awake through. That makes it EXTRA hard to sell that rematch. No doubting his results, but that's 6 straight wins by decision where he hasn't done much except take a guy down and lay on him. I can see why Dana isn't jumping to put him back in a main event.

At least Koscheck, who also deserves reward for taking on anyone, at any time with no problems, has, for the most part, exciting fights inside the cage.

Zangetsu
05-07-2010, 01:57 AM
I know. Guys that just keep winning and winning and winning are so F'ing boring. I mean who has Fitch beat? Thiago Alvez? Diego Sanchez? Paulo Thiago? What a bunch of losers.

dw13
05-07-2010, 07:01 AM
I know. Guys that just keep winning and winning and winning are so F'ing boring. I mean who has Fitch beat? Thiago Alvez? Diego Sanchez? Paulo Thiago? What a bunch of losers.

Yeah, no shit eh. Fitch gets the reputation for a "boring" fighter. Ask GSP who's given him the hardest fight inside the cage. He'll say Fitch.

Daley has absolutely no takedown defense, go back and watch the Shields fight Cayuga.

So wait, it's easy to see Kos to the people who don't know anything but Kos getting a title shot, means the person who KO'd him in Paulo Thiago is left waiting in the wings?

It makes absolutely no sense to me that Koscheck OR Daley (who has beaten Kampmann and Hazelett, nothing crazy special) are the two inline for a title shot.

As for selling a main event, Dana put Thales Laites against Anderson, and still made out fine. Don't give me the boring shit. Fitch's recent fights against Pearce and Thiago were both really entertaining, for me atleast.

It's obvious Dana has a problem with Fitch. He put him on the undercard the fight after his title shot against GSP. That was a dead give away.

Chilly_Willy
05-07-2010, 04:51 PM
Is Anderson Silva going to fight heavy weight someday?

two24four
05-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Also, it's rumored that winner of Daley/Kos will fight GSP, and be the coaches TUF.

Yup, it's official now.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2010/05/07/gsp_ultimate_fighter/

I like it, I will watch it just for GSP alone.

CayugaPosse
05-07-2010, 08:42 PM
I know. Guys that just keep winning and winning and winning are so F'ing boring. I mean who has Fitch beat? Thiago Alvez? Diego Sanchez? Paulo Thiago? What a bunch of losers.

Dude, you can say what you want about the competition, and no one here, myself included, is ever going to question the TALENT of Jon Fitch.

The problem is, frankly, GSP is relatively boring already, he's lost the killer instinct he had early in his career in favour of a less dangerous, safer style of fighting, which has made him untouchable, but has also made him boring. Now, you toss him in the cage with the only person that's even more boring than him in Fitch, and what, expect the thing to sell?

This is a sport that fans are starting to get picky about. Sure, anyone'll go to a bar and watch it or whatever, but the truth is, UFC needs people ready to buy it. There isn't anyone, yourself apparantly excluded, that is paying $60 to see Fitch and GSP. They're both boring wrestlers with no killer instinct, and I've already seen GSP make Fitch his bitch for 5 rounds...why the fuck do I need to see that again?

dawinna, not gonna put words in his mouth, but if you ask GSP his toughest fights, prettttty sure he's saying Matt Hughes before some guy he completely abused for 5 rounds.

I'm not saying Dana doesn't have a problem with Fitch either, he clearly does after the incident a while back. What I'm saying is, Jon Fitch GSP 2 is not, at all, in any way, a compelling re-match. Sorry, I'm a die hard MMA fan, infact, I may be working at the Fight Network in a couple months. But with that said, I still don't see why anyone would want to see that fight. And the fact that Jon Fitch has done nothing interesting since September 2007 in a cage, certainly isn't helping him, because the fans of UFC aren't clammoring to see him get a rematch. Simply because of how un-interesting he is as a fighter.

I get it, successful works. You deffinitely can't argue with his record and success, but what being a boring, successful fighter means, is you have to go a step above and beyond what everyone else does and really force UFC to put you in a main event fight...whereas an exciting young kid with knockout power who ends a few fights against legit competition early, can leapfrog you in a hurry for that title shot.

UFC's a business, if you're boring but great, you'll get your chance. It just might take longer to get you there. They've got to sell tickets still.

Zangetsu
05-07-2010, 09:59 PM
Call me crazy, but I am often more entertained by a good grappling match than a brawl. A lot of people were going nuts over the Korean Zombie vs. Garcia fight, and I thought it was entertaining, but it was hardly a quality fight. I much prefer a fight like Guida/Griffin.

I understand what you are saying about the UFC needing to sell tickets, but the trap-era Devils sold tickets. Maybe at this point in the development of MMA as a sport it is somewhat more important to draw the fan that just wants to see a legalized barroom brawl, but I'm hoping for a future where the average fan appreciates all aspects of the sport (and fights like Mitrione/Slice no longer wind up on PPV main cards).

And that's really what it comes down to. Right now MMA really is more of a spectacle than a sport for a large portion of the fanbase. We'll know the UFC has really "made it" when there are enough knowledgeable fans buying tickets that the arena doesn't erupt in boos whenever a fight goes to the ground.

Personally, I'd rather see Alves/GSP II before Fitch/GSP II, but that's mostly because I think Alves has a better chance at beating GSP, due to his more explosive stand up, but I can appreciate what Fitch brings to the sport. If you can't, maybe you aren't really as die-hard a fan as you claim to be.

dw13
05-07-2010, 10:09 PM
Just going to say I'm shocked you proclaim to be a "hardcore fan" then go on to say Jon Fitch has done "nothing interesting" since September 2007.

Other then that, I agree a completely with Zang

Edit: Great post Zang

CayugaPosse
05-08-2010, 12:06 AM
Call me crazy, but I am often more entertained by a good grappling match than a brawl. A lot of people were going nuts over the Korean Zombie vs. Garcia fight, and I thought it was entertaining, but it was hardly a quality fight. I much prefer a fight like Guida/Griffin.

I understand what you are saying about the UFC needing to sell tickets, but the trap-era Devils sold tickets. Maybe at this point in the development of MMA as a sport it is somewhat more important to draw the fan that just wants to see a legalized barroom brawl, but I'm hoping for a future where the average fan appreciates all aspects of the sport (and fights like Mitrione/Slice no longer wind up on PPV main cards).

And that's really what it comes down to. Right now MMA really is more of a spectacle than a sport for a large portion of the fanbase. We'll know the UFC has really "made it" when there are enough knowledgeable fans buying tickets that the arena doesn't erupt in boos whenever a fight goes to the ground.

Personally, I'd rather see Alves/GSP II before Fitch/GSP II, but that's mostly because I think Alves has a better chance at beating GSP, due to his more explosive stand up, but I can appreciate what Fitch brings to the sport. If you can't, maybe you aren't really as die-hard a fan as you claim to be.

That's a cop-out and you're assuming an awful lot about me.

You know who my favourite fighter in MMA is right now? George Sotiropoulos. You know why that is? Because I'm like you, I love a good grappling match. Here's the difference though, I want someone who gets busy when he's on the ground. Fitch just controls, which is way different. He doesn't doesn't do much, just backs his opponent into the cage, and then works ground and pound. That is something that does not interest me.

For me, one of the fights of the year so far was Joe Stevenson and Sotiropoulos, because they got after it on the ground. There was passing, sweeps, all sorts of high level shit happening. None of that happens in a Fitch fight(typically), typically it's take him down, he'll pass once, then kind of lay and do some ground and pound. Again, there's nothing wrong with that as a style of fighter, it's successful, hell, GSP does it. But that style, take him down, lay still and ground and pound, does not, in any way, interest me as a fan. I appreciate the skill, I appreciate the success, but it just bores me.

If someone's active, constantly, on the ground, then I have a much higher tolerance for fights on the ground.

I don't need someone swinging for the fences, as exciting as those fights can be. I just want someone to be busy. Fitch's style of take down, back him up against the fence and work some ground and pound, does nothing at all for me as a fight fan.

I won't apologize for that fact. If that makes me not a fan of the sport, then sobeit. You guys got me good.

Oh, and me being a ground game fan still doesn't mean I want to see Fitch vs GSP 2. You'd have to be delusional to think Fitch can hang with GSP on the ground.

CayugaPosse
05-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Just going to say I'm shocked you proclaim to be a "hardcore fan" then go on to say Jon Fitch has done "nothing interesting" since September 2007.

Other then that, I agree a completely with Zang

Edit: Great post Zang

Since his 2007 fight with Diego Sanchez(which was also a decision, but was a great fight), he hasn't finished a fight, and the most entertaining fight to watch, was him being mutilated by GSP but not being stopped, because it showed how tough he is. I stand by that statement that he's done nothing interesting since 2007. He's been successful, but if I missed all of his fights over that time frame, I sure wouldn't cry about it.

two24four
05-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Picks for tonight.

Rua over Machida
Koscheck over Daley
Stout over Stephens
Kimbo over Mitrione
Cote over Belcher


MacDonald over Salter

Dubz
05-08-2010, 11:50 AM
Very excited.

Picks:


Champ Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (for light heavyweight title)
Paul Daley vs. Josh Koscheck
Jeremy Stephens vs. Sam Stout
Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson vs. Matt Mitrione
Alan Belcher vs. Patrick Cote

I also want to see Lawlor/Doerksen and TJ Grant/Johnny Hendricks on the undercard.

Those are all the favorites:p

Except the Kimbo fight...its a coin toss.

dw13
05-08-2010, 12:12 PM
Those are all the favorites:p

Except the Kimbo fight...its a coin toss.

I always tend to pick an upset, not this time! I like Belcher personally, but if Cote's cage-rust isn't there.. he could very well win.

Zangetsu
05-08-2010, 01:05 PM
That's a cop-out and you're assuming an awful lot about me.

. . .

I appreciate the skill, I appreciate the success, but it just bores me.

. . .

I won't apologize for that fact. If that makes me not a fan of the sport, then sobeit. You guys got me good.

Oh, and me being a ground game fan still doesn't mean I want to see Fitch vs GSP 2. You'd have to be delusional to think Fitch can hang with GSP on the ground.Carefully read my post again, and you'll see that I didn't assume anything about you. I said, "if you can't appreciate what Fitch brings to the sport," which is what is called a conditional clause. Now that you have agreed that there is a skill to what Fitch does, the second half of that sentence no longer applies.

Considering that you don't post much in here, I really didn't know where you stood, and I wanted to make sure that I didn't make assumptions. Frankly, even though we obviously won't agree on everything, I'd like to hear your opinion more often, as you do seem to be well informed.

BTW, I also said that the rematch that I'd most like to see is Alves/GSP II. I remember watching the first fight thinking that Alves was going to be the guy to eventually unseat GSP. Fitch, as great a wrestler as he is, is a similar fighter to GSP and is simply outclassed by him. At least Alves provides a bit of a matchup problem.

dw13
05-08-2010, 01:11 PM
I just think it's shocking the rap that Fitch gets. I don't care if half of casual MMA fans think he's boring, I don't care if they think he just Lays and Prays. His fight with Paulo Thiago was a technical ground battle, his fight with Pierce he couldn't take him down so he beat him on his feet, etc.

Being 14-1 in the Octagon, with some of the wins he has shouldn't go unnoticed. If he beats Alves, he's CLEARLY the one to fight for the title.

Koscheck and Daley are both easily to sell in a fight against GSP, and that's why they would get the fight over him.

Koscheck has lost to fellow contender Thiag, and Daley has only beaten Hazelett/Kampmann since coming into the UFC. Neither are worthy of the title shot, IMO.

Fitch then Thiago, then Kos/Daley, IMO.

I also REALLY don't want to see a Brit and French Canadian coaching TUF. To be honest.

Zangetsu
05-08-2010, 01:33 PM
I understand why the casual fan doesn't like Fitch. I watch fights with a good mix of casual, new, and long-time/diehard fans, so I can say with certainty that some of the new and casual fans only watch MMA because they want to see brawls. Others just don't understand grappling enough to know what is going on. And then there is the non-MMA follower who, drawn by the promise of beer and BBQ, spends the whole night calling grapplers gay and laughing whenever Rogan says "rear naked."

CayugaPosse
05-08-2010, 01:44 PM
Carefully read my post again, and you'll see that I didn't assume anything about you. I said, "if you can't appreciate what Fitch brings to the sport," which is what is called a conditional clause. Now that you have agreed that there is a skill to what Fitch does, the second half of that sentence no longer applies.

Considering that you don't post much in here, I really didn't know where you stood, and I wanted to make sure that I didn't make assumptions. Frankly, even though we obviously won't agree on everything, I'd like to hear your opinion more often, as you do seem to be well informed.

BTW, I also said that the rematch that I'd most like to see is Alves/GSP II. I remember watching the first fight thinking that Alves was going to be the guy to eventually unseat GSP. Fitch, as great a wrestler as he is, is a similar fighter to GSP and is simply outclassed by him. At least Alves provides a bit of a matchup problem.

If we're looking for a guy who presents a matchup problem, Paul Daley presents the exact same matchup problem Alves does. He may not be as polished as Alves(I don't know, I've only ever seen Daley's two UFC fights), but he's huge for the weight class, and he's got devestating power in his hands.

We're going to find out tonight whether it's him or not, because the thing Alves couldn't do is keep a good takedown guy from mauling him(Fitch and GSP). If Daley shows take down defense tonight against a world class wrestler in Kos(assuming Kos tries to take him down), we may see a guy that poses the biggest threat in the weight class.

dw13
05-08-2010, 01:54 PM
If we're looking for a guy who presents a matchup problem, Paul Daley presents the exact same matchup problem Alves does. He may not be as polished as Alves(I don't know, I've only ever seen Daley's two UFC fights), but he's huge for the weight class, and he's got devestating power in his hands.

We're going to find out tonight whether it's him or not, because the thing Alves couldn't do is keep a good takedown guy from mauling him(Fitch and GSP). If Daley shows take down defense tonight against a world class wrestler in Kos(assuming Kos tries to take him down), we may see a guy that poses the biggest threat in the weight class.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Jake_Shields_vs_Paul_Daley?vid=10009430&tid=100

That's Daley vs. Shields if you want to see Daley's takedown defense.

He's a more devastating striker then his buddy Hardy, but they both just have zero takedown defense. Alves has MUCH better TDD and that's saying something.

I still think Fitch is the biggest mismatch for GSP, and that's saying something after we saw him work him for 5 rounds.

GSP has said it himself, Fitch is/was his toughest fight.

Who knows though. I think Koscheck is going to take Daley down, and do the same thing he did to Anthony Johnson.

My whole outlook on Daley could change tonight if he can stuff a couple Koscheck takedowns.

dw13
05-08-2010, 04:02 PM
To elaborate on the Fitch being GSP's toughest match up, so I don't look stupid after Fitch got tooled over 5 rounds last time they fought.

Fitch has absolutely dominating wrestling, probably better then anyone at WW not named GSP. Shields could possibly have better, and Koscheck does at times. Fitch's wrestling has transitioned beautifully into MMA. He did give GSP some problems with takedowns, but GSP's wrestling is just too explosive.

Fitch's standup is a work in progress still. He makes numerous trips to Thailand to get his Muy Thai together and he's rounding into a crisp striker.

The big problem Fitch has with GSP is that Fitch isn't a natural athlete. He doesn't have the explosiveness of any of the top Welterweights. He's a workman.

I don't think anyone in the WW division can beat GSP, but I think Fitch gives him the best fight. I don't want to see GSP take Alves down at will again.

CayugaPosse
05-08-2010, 05:24 PM
To elaborate on the Fitch being GSP's toughest match up, so I don't look stupid after Fitch got tooled over 5 rounds last time they fought.

Fitch has absolutely dominating wrestling, probably better then anyone at WW not named GSP. Shields could possibly have better, and Koscheck does at times. Fitch's wrestling has transitioned beautifully into MMA. He did give GSP some problems with takedowns, but GSP's wrestling is just too explosive.

Fitch's standup is a work in progress still. He makes numerous trips to Thailand to get his Muy Thai together and he's rounding into a crisp striker.

The big problem Fitch has with GSP is that Fitch isn't a natural athlete. He doesn't have the explosiveness of any of the top Welterweights. He's a workman.

I don't think anyone in the WW division can beat GSP, but I think Fitch gives him the best fight. I don't want to see GSP take Alves down at will again.

Who do you think has better standup, because as I was reading your entire post I was thinking about it.

Whose standup is better, Koscheck's or Fitch?

I think I'd take Koscheck's, and in that case, I think a case could be made that Kos is a tougher matchup than Fitch, because both are talented wrestlers, but neither is going to outwrestle him.

Ultimately I think we need to wait to see Jake Shields, he's the only one that LOOKS like he could hang with GSP wrestling wise. In that fight though, the problem is Shields has no standup, and GSP, although he doesn't use it hardly ever any more, does have some real explosive standup when he wants.

dw13
05-08-2010, 05:31 PM
Who do you think has better standup, because as I was reading your entire post I was thinking about it.

Whose standup is better, Koscheck's or Fitch?

I think I'd take Koscheck's, and in that case, I think a case could be made that Kos is a tougher matchup than Fitch, because both are talented wrestlers, but neither is going to outwrestle him.

Ultimately I think we need to wait to see Jake Shields, he's the only one that LOOKS like he could hang with GSP wrestling wise. In that fight though, the problem is Shields has no standup, and GSP, although he doesn't use it hardly ever any more, does have some real explosive standup when he wants.

I'll take Fitch's standup over Koschecks. Koscheck's is nothing but looping punches thrown from his waist. He has some strong hands, but he isn't as clean and technical as Fitch, IMO.

Koscheck does have a better wrestling background, but he's really gone away from him. He looked great in the AJ fight though, and if he continues to fight that way tonight, he'll pound out or submit Daley.

Oh and I'll always take Fitch's Jiu Jitsu. They both practice the same JJ, it's not normal JJ, I think they call it Gorilla JJ, or something like that.

As for Shields... GSP would pick him apart on the feet to start, and then eventually able to take him down. No one can stop GSP's takedowns at WW, IMO. Too explosive.

There is just no one at WW beating GSP, IMO. It's about getting him a fight that he won't dominate so easy. Fitch didn't let him walk all over him.

dw13
05-08-2010, 08:25 PM
Word is Shogun isn't 100%

Dubz
05-08-2010, 08:43 PM
Word is Shogun isn't 100%
I just bet the pot on Machida:cool:

Dubz
05-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Belcher drops him on his face and Rogan says its not on his head...which is illegal:lol: I think your face is probably considered part of your head and quite possibly the weakest part.:\

moans
05-08-2010, 10:52 PM
Wow, Koscheck is a complete bitch. This isn't soccer, you don't fake an injury. Worst of all, Davey loses a point.

EDIT: HE didn't lose a point, that would have been ridiculous if that was the deciding factor

dw13
05-08-2010, 11:10 PM
Belcher drops him on his face and Rogan says its not on his head...which is illegal:lol: I think your face is probably considered part of your head and quite possibly the weakest part.:\

Face isn't illegal though. Top of the head, spiking them is.

He face planted him.


Wow, Koscheck is a complete bitch. This isn't soccer, you don't fake an injury. Worst of all, Davey loses a point.

EDIT: HE didn't lose a point, that would have been ridiculous if that was the deciding factor

They both are king bitches. Bunch of goons ruining the sport.

Koscheck should never be given the mic, and Daley will be suspended and possibly tossed out of the UFC for that bullshit.


Time for Shogun/Lyoto. Lets go Lyoto.

Dubz
05-08-2010, 11:14 PM
Wow, Koscheck is a complete bitch. This isn't soccer, you don't fake an injury. Worst of all, Davey loses a point.

EDIT: HE didn't lose a point, that would have been ridiculous if that was the deciding factor

I dont know if you can say he faked it. He could have ....but that shit is fast....maybe he caught a toetail in the eye? Are you sure? I seen the replay a couple times and didnt see anything.....thats the only thing I could guess possibly happened (other than totally faking...which I doubt) The guy (Davey) lost hands down and then decides to throw a cheap shot AFTER the fight...what a fucking loser. BOOOOO


These guys cant stand with GSP. Seriously, please dont say shit like that....for a few more years at least.

Dubz
05-08-2010, 11:17 PM
Face isn't illegal though. Top of the head, spiking them is.

He face planted him.





Yeah that makes it all better.....you are getting your head slammed (spiked) and you look so its legal:lol:

moans
05-08-2010, 11:17 PM
yeah, those snenanigan at the end will have some dire consequences.
Almost time for the main event!

dw13
05-08-2010, 11:27 PM
An absolute statement from Zang's boy, Shogun. Looked great again. The old Shogun is officially back. I haven't seen him look this good (including his last fight) since Pride. Nothing much else to say about that fight. Shogun makes the division so much more fun, to be honest.

Koscheck was a bitch for trying to sell that knee. Daley was a bitch for the end of the fight punch. Again though Daley has zero takedown defense and just gets out grappled. That's the story for both Daley and Hardy, and will always happen to them.

Interesting night

Dubz
05-08-2010, 11:30 PM
Word is Shogun isn't 100%


I just bet the pot on Machida:cool:

FUCK:lol:

two24four
05-09-2010, 12:27 AM
Picks for tonight.

Rua over Machida
Koscheck over Daley
Stout over Stephens
Kimbo over Mitrione
Cote over Belcher


MacDonald over Salter

:yes::beer:

I did like what Kos said the Montreal fans after, haha.

two24four
05-09-2010, 12:45 AM
Dana said after that said Kimbo probably fought his last fight in the UFC, and that Daley will never fight in the UFC again.

Zangetsu
05-09-2010, 01:16 AM
http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/photos/2010/05/08/AP10050804537_t651.jpg?f88c8649bbadbb805ebb7b1c202 0cc5b10765421

Hockeyis#1
05-09-2010, 02:32 AM
Congrats Daley, you just fought your last fight in the UFC. You are a complete classless child. Not far behind in the classless child department is Kos. Yeah, faking the knee to the face shot is just sad. Blanketing him for the better part of that fight was actually almost as sad.

Kimbo has improved, but it still appears that he has no cardio and he def gave up in that fight.

Wow what a win for Shogun!!! I looked away for one second to watch the Wings/Sharks game, I glance back and Shogun's mounted Machida and is unloading on him and I'm like 'wtf did I miss in 2 seconds?!?'

dw13
05-09-2010, 07:48 AM
Koscheck should never be given the mic, and Daley will be suspended and possibly tossed out of the UFC for that bullshit.

Good deal Dana. Get lost Daley

Chilly_Willy
05-09-2010, 11:52 PM
Kos and Daiey deserve each other, that's for sure. Kos took something in the eye because it was pretty messed up. He sold the knee pretty classless but I think he was trying to get time for the eye.

Kimbo is trying too hard to be a grapple ground game fighter. His strength is boxing, maybe he is not going to be too successful in MMA just coming with a standup, but he is trying to be all technical and he is just getting picked apart by leg kicks and his cardio is horrible. He needs to go apeshit on people before his cardio gives out then at least if he gets beat he brought it. He has about one round in him then after that you take him down and he is toast. I was looking forward to seeing a full transition into a rounded fighter but I have to agree, its time for UFC and kimbo to part ways.

dw13
05-13-2010, 03:14 PM
Just for you Zang. Bellator tonight, and a few interesting fights.


Middleweight champ Hector Lombard vs. Paulo Filho (non-title fight)
Georgi Karakhanyan vs. Joe Warren (featherweight tournament semifinal)
Patricio "Pitbull" Freire vs. Wilson Reis (featherweight tournament semifinal)

Obviously interested in seeing Filho show up for a fight, you never know with that nutcase.

I also am looking forward to seeing Warren again, first time since the Dream tournament that I'll be able to watch him.

dw13
05-13-2010, 05:58 PM
Just for you Zang. Bellator tonight, and a few interesting fights.


Middleweight champ Hector Lombard vs. Paulo Filho (non-title fight)
Georgi Karakhanyan vs. Joe Warren (featherweight tournament semifinal)
Patricio "Pitbull" Freire vs. Wilson Reis (featherweight tournament semifinal)

Obviously interested in seeing Filho show up for a fight, you never know with that nutcase.

I also am looking forward to seeing Warren again, first time since the Dream tournament that I'll be able to watch him.

He didn't get a visa, thus he won't be fighting... he's replaced with Jay Silva :lol:

dw13
05-13-2010, 08:32 PM
Lombard is a pretty solid dude, only improving at ATT. He's one to watch.

Zangetsu
05-13-2010, 08:48 PM
Got home in time to tune in for the announcement of the Freire/Warren matchup. Warren looked good in his short time in Japan. I've never seen Freire fight.

I'm not surprised about Filho. There's something seriously wrong with that guy. It's a shame, too. He has some skill. There was a match he was supposed to fight on a recent Dream card, and he literally just disappeared. The Dream execs tried to contact his mother. His second fight with Sonnen was one of the strangest fights I've ever seen.

Looking forward to this weekend's Strikeforce show. There's been some good pre-fight talk between Rogers and Overeem. I'm hoping Arlovski has gotten his act together. He's one of the most exciting HW's in the world when he's right.

dw13
05-13-2010, 09:18 PM
I don't like Rogers, but I dislike Overeem much more. I hope Rogers KO's him.

And I do too hope that Arlovski is re-energized.

Chilly_Willy
05-13-2010, 11:57 PM
Got home in time to tune in for the announcement of the Freire/Warren matchup. Warren looked good in his short time in Japan. I've never seen Freire fight.

I'm not surprised about Filho. There's something seriously wrong with that guy. It's a shame, too. He has some skill. There was a match he was supposed to fight on a recent Dream card, and he literally just disappeared. The Dream execs tried to contact his mother. His second fight with Sonnen was one of the strangest fights I've ever seen.

Looking forward to this weekend's Strikeforce show. There's been some good pre-fight talk between Rogers and Overeem. I'm hoping Arlovski has gotten his act together. He's one of the most exciting HW's in the world when he's right.

Isn't Filho the guy that didn't make weight on his title defense in the WEC?

dw13
05-14-2010, 07:48 AM
Isn't Filho the guy that didn't make weight on his title defense in the WEC?

Sure is.

Zangetsu
05-14-2010, 11:42 AM
Yeah, that was the second Sonnen fight that I mentioned.

Not only did he not make weight, he looked completely distracted throughout the fight. By the end of the third round, Filho would take a good three seconds to respond when Sonnen circled one way or the other.

Mir's commentary was priceless. "Who is he looking at?" "He's talking to Jesus or something in the middle of the ring."

dw13
05-14-2010, 11:45 AM
Yeah, that was the second Sonnen fight that I mentioned.

Not only did he not make weight, he looked completely distracted throughout the fight. By the end of the third round, Filho would take a good three seconds to respond when Sonnen circled one way or the other.

Mir's commentary was priceless. "Who is he looking at?" "He's talking to Jesus or something in the middle of the ring."

Yeah, it was possibly one of the strangest things I've ever seen in the cage. He looked completely spaced out.

Mir was pretty priceless. :lol:

Hockeyis#1
05-15-2010, 05:05 AM
Rampage vs Rashad. That fight cannot go to a decision.

Zangetsu
05-15-2010, 01:53 PM
I would love to see it go to a decision, actually. As much as I dislike both of them, three rounds of these two guys pounding on each other would be the most satisfying thing ever. Doesn't seem likely, though.

Anybody been following the twitter talk going on between these two? Some of it is pretty stupid, but this line by Rampage mad me laugh.

"Get the bottom of your feet sponsored son.. cause you getting laid out!"

Chilly_Willy
05-17-2010, 04:27 PM
What is Shogun's next fight. Will we ever see the Mauricio Rua v. Anderson Silva.

I know Silva would not fight Machida, but now that Machida no longer holds the title will Silva want a shot? Silva is a hard guy to figure out.

dw13
05-17-2010, 04:33 PM
Silva is still meeting Sonnen at 117, and then probably Vitor if he wins that fight, I'd guess.

I'm not sure how many fights he has left on his deal, but if he has another one then he could move back up to LHW against Shogun or anyone not named Machida... that's my guess.

Shogun vs. the winner of Rashad/Rampage seems logical as far as Shoguns next fight.

Zangetsu
05-17-2010, 04:38 PM
I'd be shocked if Shogun didn't fight the winner of the Rampage/Rashad fight, but Shogun called out Couture in a recent interview. Crazier things have happened, and Couture isn't getting any younger.

Considering that Shogun recently stated that he would accept a fight with Anderson if it was put together, there's a chance that they could square off somewhere down the road, but it's really anybody's guess. MMA matchmaking is ridiculously unpredictable. It is a fight I'd love to see, though.

dw13
05-18-2010, 09:04 AM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/19176/strikeforce-open-to-bellator-co-promotion-gilbert-melendez-vs-eddie-alvarez-fight.mma

Strikeforce open to co-promote with Bellator to set up a Melendez/Alvarez fight.

Would be sick.

Chilly_Willy
05-18-2010, 01:23 PM
Given that Anderson has been largely dissatisfied with his opponents it would seem putting Shogun in front of him would be the right thing to do. Shogun could be the answer to Silva's uncontested domination. I don't see Silva having problems with either Rampage or Evans. That fight would be more so just giving a title shot to one of those 2, potentially someone that walked out on the UFC and screwed up the TUF format?

But I admit I understand less of the operation of these leagues than you guys do.

dw13
05-18-2010, 01:37 PM
Given that Anderson has been largely dissatisfied with his opponents it would seem putting Shogun in front of him would be the right thing to do. Shogun could be the answer to Silva's uncontested domination. I don't see Silva having problems with either Rampage or Evans. That fight would be more so just giving a title shot to one of those 2, potentially someone that walked out on the UFC and screwed up the TUF format?

But I admit I understand less of the operation of these leagues than you guys do.

A couple things, it'd be Rampage or Evans for Shogun in his next title defense, IMO. Couture's lined up to fight Toney, so that's the fight that makes perfect sense. Not Rampage or Evans for Anderson.

Anderson still is lined up to fight Chael Sonnen, and then after that I'm sure he'll be fighting Vitor when he's healthy.

I also don't think Anderson has been dissatisfied with his opponents, I just think he fights smart. He might of made a fool of himself, but he doesn't put himself at risk. He just wins fights a different way then say GSP who does the same thing but stays aggressive somewhat.

Anderson has two fights at MW lined up before they think about a superfight, IMO. And that Superfight could be GSP, or Shogun, if Shogun holds onto the belt.

Chilly_Willy
05-18-2010, 02:27 PM
Can't wait for that superfight. I just hope there are no retirements before it happens. I am really enjoying this golden age of MMA. The fight cards these days are unreal. Can't wait to see Lesnar back later this year too.

two24four
05-18-2010, 02:46 PM
MMA day in Toronto this Saturday at Queen's Park, they are hoping to raise awareness of the sport.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2010/05/18/showdown_mma_day/

Zangetsu
05-18-2010, 04:06 PM
It's official. Rampage/Rashad winner to face Shogun for the belt.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/White-Rampage-Evans-Winner-Gets-Title-Shot-Against-Rua-24574

two24four
05-20-2010, 12:30 PM
UFC to make "major announcement" next Tuesday in Toronto at the Rogers Centre.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2010/05/20/ufc_canada/

dw13
05-20-2010, 12:54 PM
Ben Askren fights tonight @ Bellator. Great prospect.

Zangetsu
05-20-2010, 02:12 PM
Never seen Askren fight, but I've heard some crazy stories about his wrestling. Mostly exaggeration, I'm sure, but I've heard people say he's already the best wrestler in the WW division. If they're just talking about his pedigree, they might be right.

dw13
05-20-2010, 02:19 PM
Never seen Askren fight, but I've heard some crazy stories about his wrestling. Mostly exaggeration, I'm sure, but I've heard people say he's already the best wrestler in the WW division. If they're just talking about his pedigree, they might be right.

I've seen him wrestle in College and fight in MMA. He's wrestling is absolutely top notch. Tough to say the beast because of GSP, but if we're talking about pedigree and accomplishments, Askren is definitely one of (if not) the top guy.

Has a brother too who was top in College and is recently getting into MMA.

Zangetsu
05-20-2010, 02:38 PM
That's the thing. Amateur wrestling =/= MMA wrestling, and GSP is the best MMA wrestler. Of course, if Askren can get his amateur wrestling to translate to MMA, he could be a guy to watch for, as wrestling has usurped BJJ as the most important skill to possess in MMA, IMO.

dw13
05-20-2010, 02:55 PM
That's the thing. Amateur wrestling =/= MMA wrestling, and GSP is the best MMA wrestler. Of course, if Askren can get his amateur wrestling to translate to MMA, he could be a guy to watch for, as wrestling has usurped BJJ as the most important skill to possess in MMA, IMO.

Yeah, I agree. Askren is a really tough guy, and tough minded. I think he's going to be really good in the future if he can get his striking together. His wrestling will always be his bread and butter, and there's not many better.

Some guys translate into MMA, some don't, but Askren looks like he is going to be a good one.

Zangetsu
05-20-2010, 03:03 PM
Good to know. I'll try to check him out tonight.

You know why they are rematching his last fight, BTW?

dw13
05-20-2010, 03:06 PM
Good to know. I'll try to check him out tonight.

You know why they are rematching his last fight, BTW?

Askren locked up a guillotine last time, and Thomas said he never tapped to it, so they granted a rematch I guess. I'd imagine if Thomas does beat him, they'll fight a 3rd time.

Chilly_Willy
05-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Last season there was a lot of TUF discussion here this season not so much. Has TUF just gotten that bad?

Zangetsu
05-20-2010, 08:59 PM
Yeah, it's really bad. Nobody from this season will ever become a factor in the UFC.

two24four
05-20-2010, 09:16 PM
Last season there was a lot of TUF discussion here this season not so much. Has TUF just gotten that bad?

Watched the 1st show of this season, and have not even thought about putting it on again, does not help that the NHL playoffs are on now as well.

dw13
05-20-2010, 09:47 PM
TUF has been horrible for the past 5 seasons.

Askren's wrestling was dominating again tonight.

Zangetsu
05-20-2010, 10:11 PM
His BJJ could use a little work, but his top control was very strong. You can tell that he's got that "functional strength" that all great wrestlers have.

His next match with Hornbuckle will be a good test for him. Hornbuckle has a ton more experience and looking at his record, he seems to be very well-rounded. I'm guessing the gameplan for Askren will be to put Hornbuckle on his back early in each round.

dw13
05-20-2010, 10:21 PM
His BJJ could use a little work, but his top control was very strong. You can tell that he's got that "functional strength" that all great wrestlers have.

His next match with Hornbuckle will be a good test for him. Hornbuckle has a ton more experience and looking at his record, he seems to be very well-rounded. I'm guessing the gameplan for Askren will be to put Hornbuckle on his back early in each round.

Yeah, you can tell his BJJ is really, really raw but he has potential, especially with moves like the guillotine because wrestlers seem to have that grip to put you to sleep.

Hornbuckle will be his biggest test yet, and a good fight for him. I just really like Askrens ability to take people down and use his strength to keep good position and pound out wins for now.

two24four
05-21-2010, 12:19 PM
UFC to make "major announcement" next Tuesday in Toronto at the Rogers Centre.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2010/05/20/ufc_canada/

Sounds like this is to announce that they are setting up a full time office in Toronto.

Zangetsu
05-22-2010, 10:30 AM
Some decent fights last night.

Lindland got back on track, dominating Kevin Casey in a grappling match.

Coy/Woodley and Bowling/Voelker were both great fights, but both ended controversially.

And in what amounted to little more than a sideshow, Tim Sylvia beat former strongman Mariusz Pudzianowski, who tapped out to strikes in the first round.

Pudz was gassed after the first 30 seconds and fell to his back after a halfhearted takedown attempt from Sylvia. The Maine-iac proceeded to gain side control, eventually securing a crucifix mount, and Pudz tapped shortly after.

Hockeyis#1
05-25-2010, 06:10 AM
UFC 114 picks
Rampage over Rashad
Bisbing over Miller
Lil' Nog over Brilz
Duffee over Russow
Sanchez over Hathaway
Sadollah over Hyun Kim
Lauzon over Escudero

dw13
05-25-2010, 07:14 AM
UFC 114 picks
Rampage over Rashad
Bisbing over Miller
Lil' Nog over Brilz
Duffee over Russow
Sanchez over Hathaway
Sadollah over Hyun Kim
Lauzon over Escudero

Rampage over Rashad
Miller over Bis
Lil Nog over Brilz
Duffee over Russow
Sanchez over Hathaway
DHK over Amir
Escudero over Lauzon

mrtybrodur30
05-25-2010, 08:17 AM
UFC 114 picks

Jackson over Evans by KO

-No other picks needed this is the only fight of real meaning for a PPV, I mean is Bisping really the headline? :blah:. Its somewhat interesting to see what Duffee does but its not main card material.

I just hope for everyone the main event doesnt suck.

keyboard
05-25-2010, 09:53 AM
I just hope for everyone the main event doesnt suck.Evans' last fight was pretty unbearable. I'd imagine this one will have a lot more pussyfooting.

two24four
05-25-2010, 10:49 AM
UFC 114 picks

Jackson over Evans by KO

-No other picks needed this is the only fight of real meaning for a PPV, I mean is Bisping really the headline? :blah:. Its somewhat interesting to see what Duffee does but its not main card material.

I just hope for everyone the main event doesnt suck.

I agree, after the Rampage Evans fight I dont think it's worth getting, weak card.

Rampage over Evans.

Zangetsu
05-25-2010, 11:29 AM
Am I going to be the only person picking Rashad to win? I know Rampage is probably the more talented fighter, but the combination of Rampage's year away from fighting and Rashad's superior game planning has me thinking Rashad will win by decision.

The rest of the card is a little weak, but there are a lot of great fighters on there. They may not be matched up with top notch competition, but I'll be interested to see how Sanchez bounces back and if Duffee is the real deal. Lil' Nog is always fun to watch, and he'll likely put on a clinic against Brilz.

Anyway, my picks:
Evans over Jackson
Miller over Bisping (hoping, although Bisping could win if he stays off his back)
Lil Nog over Brilz
Duffee over Russow (Russow is no joke, this will be a good test for Duffee)
Sanchez over Hathaway
Kim over Sadollah
Escudero over Lauzon (word out of Lauzon's camp has not been good. His coaches have all abandoned him after he failed to increase his training workload)

dw13
05-25-2010, 11:53 AM
Am I going to be the only person picking Rashad to win? I know Rampage is probably the more talented fighter, but the combination of Rampage's year away from fighting and Rashad's superior game planning has me thinking Rashad will win by decision.

The rest of the card is a little weak, but there are a lot of great fighters on there. They may not be matched up with top notch competition, but I'll be interested to see how Sanchez bounces back and if Duffee is the real deal. Lil' Nog is always fun to watch, and he'll likely put on a clinic against Brilz.

Anyway, my picks:
Evans over Jackson
Miller over Bisping (hoping, although Bisping could win if he stays off his back)
Lil Nog over Brilz
Duffee over Russow (Russow is no joke, this will be a good test for Duffee)
Sanchez over Hathaway
Kim over Sadollah
Escudero over Lauzon (word out of Lauzon's camp has not been good. His coaches have all abandoned him after he failed to increase his training workload)

I just don't see Evans being able to take down Rashad like he will want to, and if it stays standing I think Evans could get put to sleep. Anyone thinking it'll be a dull fight, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I think it'll be a dandy.

We have the same picks outside of that fight. Everyone saying the card is weak, it just doesn't have the star power names. Sanchez vs. Hathaway will be a really quality fight, and so will Miller/Bisping.

The two fights in Spike are going to be great as well. Stun Gun vs. Amir will be a really fun one, and Escudero vs. Lauzon, with everyone leaving Lauzon (including his brother) will be interesting too.

Looking forward to it myself.

Zangetsu
05-25-2010, 12:16 PM
If Rampage wins, it'll be because he stops Rashad. I just don't see a scenario where Rampage is able to beat Rashad in a three round fight. His cardio/game planning have always been his weaknesses, and I'm sure Evans and his coaches will be trying to take advantage of both.

That being said, Rampage definitely has a better chin than Rashad (despite all the talk of Rampage being KO'd more) and more power, so if Rampage is able to stay off the mat for the whole fight, it probably won't go three rounds.

UFC 114 is a little like a typical Japanese card. It's a lot of mismatches on paper, but the fights are mostly between guys with contrasting styles. Chances are we'll get to see a couple of the other prelim fights, as well. Cane/Diabatte and Guillard's fight could both be entertaining.

Chilly_Willy
05-25-2010, 01:59 PM
Rashad over Mr. T. err... Rampage

mrtybrodur30
05-25-2010, 02:51 PM
The rest of the Card is not nearly as good as it should be there might be a good fight that comes thru or maybe even two but if the main event blows the whole PPV is a let down a big one. If Rashad does his best Jon Fitch impersonation people will be highly pissed. I just cant stand the grinders right now, I get everything about the wrestling and the ground control trust me I do, but they dont finish! I hope the UFC signs Mr. Velcro and he can take out all the grinders in the WW and MW divisions once and for all lol

Just in case you were wondering Mr. Velcro is none other than Jake Shields. :lol: There is no MMA for Shields in his mind its like hes fighting Abu Dhabi everytime out.


As for Evans chances of Winning, I think they are just as good as Jackson's chance of winning. I just prefer Jackson in this fight and I think Evans bit off alot more than he can chew.

Hockeyis#1
05-27-2010, 05:52 AM
I get everything about the wrestling and the ground control trust me I do, but they dont finish! I hope the UFC signs Mr. Velcro and he can take out all the grinders in the WW and MW divisions once and for all lol

Just in case you were wondering Mr. Velcro is none other than Jake Shields. :lol: There is no MMA for Shields in his mind its like hes fighting Abu Dhabi everytime out.+1 I've really grown tired of watching some of these blanket-matches. I'm going to gain dominant position....and stay there......:zzz:. I'm slightly afraid that's what Rashad is going to do. Takedown, maneuver into a dominant position, maybe get a couple body shots in and get a stand up. Rinse cycle, and repeat.

In a perfect world, there would be no judges. the fight goes on until someone taps or gets KO/TKO.

Chilly_Willy
05-27-2010, 09:23 AM
Yeah those fights can be really boring because its not long before you realize the fight is over and you have 3-5 more rounds of watching some dude hump his opponent.

There should be a ground clock like a shot clock in basketball. If you take it to the ground and don't finish before the clock runs out its stood up no matter what is going on. I don't think the refs stand them up enough.

Its why I think Even's will win. Rampage is not accurate enough to connect with Rashad and his cardio will not outlast Rashad. Its going to go to the ground and we get to watch Rampage flail around for 2-3 rounds until decision. The only chance Rampage has IMO is if he connects with Even's early before the first is over.

dw13
05-27-2010, 10:32 AM
I disagree with all of this wrestling talk. If you can be taken down over and over again and controlled, then so be it. Work on your takedown defense. It's part of the game.

Chilly_Willy
05-27-2010, 11:10 AM
Your right. I don't disagree that someone getting taken down over and over should lose, it can just make for an uninteresting fight sometimes. But heck that is fighting, if you start tinkering with it then it probably gets worse. Even when 2 sluggers get gassed in a stand up it can be uninteresting.

Zangetsu
05-27-2010, 02:11 PM
As much as I do enjoy grappling, I do think that the sport may benefit from more specific rules regarding when a referee can restart the fight.

dw13
05-27-2010, 02:17 PM
As much as I do enjoy grappling, I do think that the sport may benefit from more specific rules regarding when a referee can restart the fight.

I'd agree, but I don't know how specific they can get.

Zangetsu
05-27-2010, 02:47 PM
I was going to post this earlier, but it was getting a little long.

First, there are positions where the fight should never be reset. Back control (unless the fighter in dominant position is blatantly stalling), mount, crucifix, north-south, and side control. I only include the last two because they are both effective offensive positions and two of the easier positions to escape.

That leaves open/closed full guard (and all the variations: butterfly, rubber, etc.) and half guard. Yes, it is possible for fighters to inflict significant damage from the top, and if the fighter is really working his GnP and not just landing peppering strikes (a good referee would be able to gauge the damage based on the reaction of the fighter on the bottom) the referee should not intervene.

However, I think 30 seconds is plenty of time for a fighter to attempt to advance to a more offensive position, attempt a submission, or establish significant GnP. If no attempt is made and no significant damage is being dealt, the fight should be reset. Also, if the attempt is made within 30 seconds but 90 seconds pass without an advance, then the fighter on the bottom should be rewarded for blocking his opponents attempts, and the fight should be reset.

Much of this, of course, is highly subjective, and based on the quality of refereeing (which has improved, but still isn't ideal), I don't see anything like this happening anytime soon. Still, I think it would force wrestlers to be more aggressive once they get their opponents to the ground.

dw13
05-27-2010, 05:07 PM
Oh and Zang:

Bryan Baker vs. Eric Schambari rematch tonight on Bellator. If you remember they had a pretty solid fight back in WEC along time ago. I'm looking forward to it.

Zangetsu
05-27-2010, 05:31 PM
Don't recall that one, but I was planning on checking out the card tonight anyway. I read the other day that the Askren/Hornbuckle fight would take place on June 17th.

dw13
05-27-2010, 06:01 PM
I was just looking for it on Fox Sports, and couldn't find it tonight. Any idea?

Zangetsu
05-27-2010, 06:27 PM
It's on MSG (our local Fox Sports network) here. MMATV over at myp2p.eu might carry it, although I'm not seeing much in the myp2p forums.

dw13
05-27-2010, 06:57 PM
It's on MSG (our local Fox Sports network) here. MMATV over at myp2p.eu might carry it, although I'm not seeing much in the myp2p forums.

Guess it's because the ACC Baseball tournament.

I'm pissed.

mrtybrodur30
05-27-2010, 07:11 PM
For me something is usually on like A's or Giants Baseball so Bellator gets pushed back to 1am or something the next morning if that helps. Anyways Bellator has been really fun to watch especially since they are on so much. Really cant wait for Hornbuckle/Askren. Should be a good fight I think Hornbuckle takes it though. Also looking forward to Shlemenko/Hess tonight and again its on for me at 1am lol

mrtybrodur30
05-28-2010, 01:42 AM
Wow! what happened to Hess tonight was by far the most nasty thing I've seen in MMA even worse than the Corey Hill leg kick. Hess' knee and leg looked so bad I wonder what the verdict is gonna be to what happened, it has to be bad though, the knee had no stability with the lower leg just so nasty. Made some NFL knee injuries look pleasant.

Zangetsu
05-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Wow! what happened to Hess tonight was by far the most nasty thing I've seen in MMA even worse than the Corey Hill leg kick. Hess' knee and leg looked so bad I wonder what the verdict is gonna be to what happened, it has to be bad though, the knee had no stability with the lower leg just so nasty. Made some NFL knee injuries look pleasant.
Putting this in spoiler tag as a warning. Gruesome stuff.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb235/kusokosla/vsniuhjpg.gif

Chilly_Willy
05-28-2010, 03:51 PM
Wow his knee actually reversed. That can not be good. Wish him the best that is a life changing injury.

dw13
05-28-2010, 03:53 PM
I'd say Hill's was a bit worse, but both were disgusting.

dw13
05-28-2010, 06:29 PM
Rampage looked a crazy-man today at the weighins. That's going to be one hell of a fight either way.

Zangetsu
05-28-2010, 06:35 PM
"He's dead!"

Love it. That's one thing you can always count on with Rampage. The guy knows how to hype a fight.

Rampage actually looks really good, but Rashad also looks like he's added some muscle since the Silva fight. Diego put on a lot of muscle since his fight with BJ, and it looks like he's a WW to stay this time. Still, he's got a ways to go before he's in the same league size wise as the top WW's.

CayugaPosse
05-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Rampage vs Rashad(went back and forth on this alot...)
Bisping vs Miller
Duffee vs Russow
Nogueira vs Brilz
Sanchez vs Hathaway
Sadollahvs Kim
Escudaro vs Lauzon

dw13
05-29-2010, 01:39 PM
Watched Dream this morning, it was a really good set of fights. Enjoy it Zang

Zangetsu
05-29-2010, 02:13 PM
Glad you didn't mention any results. I'm waiting for a good DL. Really wish Time Warner and HDNet would get something worked out.

dw13
05-29-2010, 11:57 PM
Disappointing to say the least, and ring rust to me was a big issue for Rampage. Good night of fights though.

Oh and I told you, Hathaway = no joke!

keyboard
05-30-2010, 12:02 AM
If Rampage wins, it'll be because he stops Rashad. I just don't see a scenario where Rampage is able to beat Rashad in a three round fight. His cardio/game planning have always been his weaknesses, and I'm sure Evans and his coaches will be trying to take advantage of both.

That being said, Rampage definitely has a better chin than Rashad (despite all the talk of Rampage being KO'd more) and more power, so if Rampage is able to stay off the mat for the whole fight, it probably won't go three rounds.Nice.

Chilly_Willy
05-30-2010, 12:47 AM
That was a great UFC!!!

Zangetsu
05-30-2010, 12:55 AM
Missed the Sanchez fight, but I heard he got dominated.

Brilz got robbed. "Don't leave it in the hands of the judges." - Dana White

Russow's got a great chin, and Duffee needs to work on his cardio.

It only took Dan Miller two and a half rounds to figure out that he shouldn't stand with Bisping. Bisping looked great, as tough as that is for me to say.

Rashad may have gotten a little lucky. Herb could've stopped that fight when Rampage knocked Rashad down, but Rampage missed on two or three finishing shots.

Watch out for Melvin Guillard. He's always been a freakish athlete, and now he seems to be motivated/focused as well. Gotta love a guy who has now finished two guys with body shots.

Hockeyis#1
05-30-2010, 01:17 AM
The Duffee/Russow fight and Nog/Brilz were both entertaining and great fights. The rest of the card I thought was somewhat disappointing. The main event was especially disappointing. I want 2 more rounds damnit.

b_illin
06-04-2010, 09:45 AM
It really depends where you're situated. CFL could be number one in a place like saskatoon.

NASCAR sucks, but you can't argue with it's near cult-like fanbase. I just grouped F1 with it because it's auto racing.

MMA could possibly be higher. We actually have the largest fan base of the sport here in southern ontario.

NCAA football is pretty big up here. NCAA basketball regular season is boring, but March Madness more than makes up for it.

Which explains why they UFC keeps having press conferences and setting up offices and hiring ex-CFL commissioners to lobby to change the rules up here so they can have a fight!

moans
06-04-2010, 09:58 AM
Which explains why they UFC keeps having press conferences and setting up offices and hiring ex-CFL commissioners to lobby to change the rules up here so they can have a fight!

It's not like doing this would be good for the economy or anything. McGuinty and the Ontario Liberal government is way behind the 8 ball here. If they legalized it today, I'd be willing to bet they could sell out a show at the Roger's Centre tomorrow.

I mean look at Montreal, they sold out their first show in something like 10 minutes (might be less actually). Worst of all, McGuinty has said he has no plans of looking over the current laws anytime soon. I guess he's still budy trying to sell the introduction of HST.

two24four
06-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Yeah Dana White has said if we can get the UFC in Toronto, he will come about 2 or 3 times a year, come on McGuinty get your head out of your ass, you know how much money that would bring in.

moans
06-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Yeah Dana White has said if we can get the UFC in Toronto, he will come about 2 or 3 times a year, come on McGuinty get your head out of your ass, you know how much money that would bring in.

He's claimed that it's not on his list of things to do. The amount of tourists it would bring in would contribute millions of dollars towards the economy of Toronto. I guess the issue is the criminal code itself. It may have to be reworded, or maybe an exemption put in place for MMA.

We should pick this up in the MMA thread, seeing as this is the CFL thread.

moans
06-04-2010, 01:13 PM
If we don't see the UFC here by the end of 2011, McGuinty better have a damn good reason. This "it's not on the agenda" crap can only hold for so long.

snoopzen
06-04-2010, 02:58 PM
If we don't see the UFC here by the end of 2011, McGuinty better have a damn good reason. This "it's not on the agenda" crap can only hold for so long.I watch and appreciate MMA as much as the next guy, but I'd actually be surprised if it were legalized in Ontario anytime soon, and I'd actually be OK with that. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see MMA in Ontario... but not as a rush job.

Yes, I do believe that there's money to be made from ticket sales and tourism, but there has got to be more than dollar signs and popularity involved when making policy decisions. As moans said, at the very least there are issues with the Criminal Code that can't be ignored.

I recently read the following blog from thestar.com by Morgan Campbell. It makes a lot of good points.
http://thestar.blogs.com/fightingwords/2010/04/ufc-in-bc-and-ontario----my-gut-feeling.html


A post from Showdown Joe (http://twitter.com/ShowdownJoe)popped up in my TweetDeck last week, linking to this blog post from local journalist and MMA blogger Barrett Hooper (http://www.fightingwords.ca/2010/04/02/video-why-isnt-mma-legal-in-ontario/).
If you didn't click the link here's the Reader's Digest version:

If you're upset that MMA events are still illegal in Ontario then your beef is with Ken Hayashi, head of the Ontario Athletic commission and the person best positioned to start the legalization process. He continues to claim section 83 of the Criminal Code, which outlaws unsanctioned prizefights, also outlaws any MMA event, and that only a regime change or extreme attitude adjustment within the athletic commission can give MMA advocates what they're looking for.

In a lot of ways, Hooper's right.

I've been asking the same questions of Hayashi every few months for five years now, and getting the same answers about why MMA isn't legal in Ontario:

* The sport lacks a safety record at the amateur level, but the commission doesn't deal with amateur sports so direct further questions elsewhere.

* The sport violates section 83 of the Criminal Code, but the Ontario commission can't speak to what's happening in Quebec or Alberta, so direct further questions elsewhere.

* No, our stance on the sport hasn't changed in light of (insert development here), so please, direct further questions elsewhere.

Trust me, I'm familiar with the frustration Hooper feels dealing with the Ontario commission on this topic.

But the more I think and talk and write about it, the more my mind returns to the same question:

What if the keeping MMA out of Ontario really is the safest course of action -- for fighters, I mean.
http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef01347fb03fb4970c-320pi (http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef01347fb03fb4970c-pi)

Before we continue... yes, I'm aware of the stats. One hundred eleven UFC shows and counting, no life threatening injuries. And I've followed both sports long enough to know that while you're more likely to break a bone in a mixed martial arts match, it's a much safer sport than boxing, where 12 rounds of head shots can lead to a lifetime of cognitive impairment.

Now, nobody with the power to affect combat sports legislation would ever say this but my gut feeling is that if the UFC were the only mixed martial arts organization going changing the law wouldn't be a problem.

Hayashi makes clear his concerns about safety and the UFC would be able to satisfy them. That organization has the manpower to make sure that qualified referees, judges and doctors would work any show that took place in this province and maintain the safety record they've already established.

Problem is, the UFC isn't the only MMA promotion out there, and if you legalize the sport for Dana White you also legalize it for every small-time local hustler who can string together a three letter acronym and call himself an MMA promoter. These guys wouldn't have access to the judges, referees and doctors the UFC would bring, who do you think would have to provide officials for these smaller shows?

Exactly.

And if you don't think that presents concerns about the level of safety and quality of officiating then you haven't been to a pro boxing show in this province.

This is not to accuse the Athletic Commission of widespread corruption and incompetence, but folks who follow boxing locally know commission officials offer plenty to question.

Consider:
* Nov. 21, 2009, Undefeated filipino prospect Ciso "Kid Terrible" Morales (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=426787&cat=boxer) rides into Casino Rama on Marvin Sonsona's (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=425605&cat=boxer) coattails and meets Mexico's Miguel Angel Gonzales Piedras (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=348758&cat=boxer), who batters Morales for eight rounds. Everybody on press row saw the fight as a clear win for Piedras, and even the large Filipino cheering section fell silent after the final bell, awaiting the inevitable blemish on their guy's record.

They didn't need to worry. Two judges scored the fight for Morales and a third had it a draw. Morales escaped with his perfect record intact and the rest of us left the building if Piedras ever had a chance at winning a decision.

* Jan. 16, 2010, Another undefeated prospect, Victor Puiu (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=245657&cat=boxer), meets another rugged Mexican, Ulises Jimenez (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=85713&cat=boxer), and gets the worst of a sloppy eight-round slugfest. Again, the outcome seems clear -- a decision win for Jimenez, who took the fight on short notice and landed the cleaner and more numerous blows. And again the judges render a mysterious decision -- a draw. Puiu remains undefeated.

**I'm not suggesting anything crooked in either case. Just saying the decisions were dreadful.**

Jan. 16, 2010, On the Puiu-Jimenez undercard, amateur standout and two-time provincial champ Denton Daley (http://www.dentondaley.com/) made his pro debut against a guy named Irving Chestnut. Daley is quick, powerful and learning rapidly after a late start in the sport. Chestnut is old enough to have sparred with James Toney (http://mmajunkie.com/news/18156/41-year-old-boxing-champ-james-toney-signs-multi-fight-agreement-with-ufc.mma) as an amateur (really...he actually did), but managed not to turn pro until facing Daley more than 20 years later.

Pre-fight pictures don't always tell the story, but look at this one and tell me how you think this fight unfolded.
http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef01347fb00c8a970c-500pi (http://thestar.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341bf8f353ef01347fb00c8a970c-pi)
(Photo Courtesy The Boxing Examiner (http://www.theboxingexaminer.com/))
No surprises when the opening bell rang. Daley moved, boxed and, most of all, potshotted Chestnut, whiplashing his head and dropping him more times than I can count. At any point after round one referee John Wylie could have stopped the fight, but he allowed Chestut to absorb percussive shots. My notebook from that night is spattered with droplets of Chestnut's blood.

When Chestnut went down in third Wylie should have ended it. He wobbled to his feet and barely beat the count, but his glassy eyes and quivering legs told everyone in the arena the fight was done.

Everyone except Wylie, who, incredibly, sent Chestnut back to centre ring so Daley could do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEmruxMCMH4

A spectacular knockout, for sure, but the product of poor matchmaking at best, negligent refereeing at worst. It's not a stretch to say Chestnut could have died that night, pushed back into a fight he had shown he couldn't win, wobbling on unsteady legs to face a young, hungry fighter with one-punch power. A dangerous situation, even by the standards of a bloodsport.

So what does that have to do with MMA in Ontario?

Everything.

I just laid out two bad decisions and a potentially tragic one, all unfolding within two months of each other and all made by athletic commission officials who have experience with boxing.

If commission officials bungle decisions in a sport with which they're familiar, imagine what would happen if you put the same folks in an MMA event. Or imagine charging this same group with recruiting and training the officials who would oversee non-UFC MMA shows in Ontario.

Would you feel confident the the guy who fights best would win the decision?

Could you say for sure that the referee would know when to step in and stop a fight?

Would you entrust your record, your career and your safety to rookie officials straight out of the Ontario commission's training program?
You probably wouldn't, and neither would I.

It frustrates a lot of fans that Ontario won't join every other major jurisdiction and legalize the fastest-growing sport in the world, but poor officiating adds a layer of risk to an already dangerous game. So until Ontario is willing to invest in quality officiating and limit poor decisions in all combat sports the safest course of action -- for now -- is to stay out of the Octagon.

Zangetsu
06-04-2010, 06:03 PM
No MMA in NY either, and I admittedly haven't followed the situation closely, but if the reasons for there being no MMA in NY are the same as they are in Ontario, I'd be pissed.

Seriously, you're going to block one of the fastest growing sports in the world because you're too lazy to properly train judges and referees? That's outrageous.

snoopzen
06-04-2010, 06:40 PM
Seriously, you're going to block one of the fastest growing sports in the world because you're too lazy to properly train judges and referees? That's outrageous.Too lazy? Maybe too busy running a province.

Back in March, Dalton McGuinty said this about MMA:

Earlier, McGuinty told reporters at the legislature that the MMA debate is a "distraction" and allowing the sport just isn't on his agenda right now.

There are more important issues the governing Liberals must focus on, such as harmonizing sales taxes and developing clean-water technology, McGuinty added.

"If I was to knock on 1,000 Ontario family doors and ask them for their top three concerns, I'd be surprised if anybody said, 'Well, my top three, one of those is we've got to start this new kind of mixed martial arts in Ontario -- that's going to mean a lot for me and my family and our future together,"' he said.

"So it's just not a priority for our families, so it's not a priority for me."

Said [Dana] White: "This guy's running the government. Should MMA be on the top of his list? No, there's a lot of other things that are more important. But what he didn't say is it's not on my list. And at one time that was his position. He didn't want to hear about mixed martial arts.

"It's on his list now. It's not on the top of his list and it shouldn't be. We're probably in the worst economic situation in the history of the world, not just in the U.S. but everywhere. There's a lot more problems that this guy needs to deal with other than get MMA regulated."I'm no lover of the current government. But if getting MMA legalized in Ontario (or NY State) is at the top of your list of priorities, and you (not necessarily the guys in this forum) are getting upset that it isn't at the top of the government's, you don't have real problems.

Zangetsu
06-04-2010, 07:15 PM
Too lazy? Maybe too busy running a province.

Back in March, Dalton McGuinty said this about MMA:
I'm no lover of the current government. But if getting MMA legalized in Ontario (or NY State) is at the top of your list of priorities, and you (not necessarily the guys in this forum) are getting upset that it isn't at the top of the government's, you don't have real problems.The AC runs Ontario, huh? Ouch. Glad I live in the states.

And no, we have much bigger problems in New York, and as I said, I haven't even been following the story that closely, so no it is not at the top of my list of priorities.

That being said, the reason given (in the first article you posted) for the hesitancy in legalizing MMA in Ontario was laziness/incompetence on the part of the AC. The cost of training judges and refs would more than be offset by the fees that MMA organizations would have to pay to host events, so funds used by the province for other more important programs would not be affected.

I understand that it takes time to get legislation through government at any level, and the one thing that I do know about the situation in NY is that bills have been presented on the floor of the state legislature on multiple occasions, and in each case, the bill is shot down due to ethical concerns of a slight majority.

If it was because of the NYAC that we didn't have MMA in NY, I would be pissed, yes.

Chilly_Willy
06-06-2010, 08:45 PM
It seems like they could easily manage the situation by requiring the events to be licensed and then only give license to credible organizations. Don't just flat out make it legal if you fear a bunch of rinky dink organizations popping up.

Zangetsu
06-06-2010, 10:06 PM
I don't know how the provincial governments work, but if it's anything like the NY government, the problem is likely figuring out the effect legalization will have on the budget, even if it is expected to bring in money.

I was just pissed after reading that first article that snoop posted, because it seemed as if the only thing keeping MMA out of Ontario was the AC. Knowing that politicians are involved, I'm not at all surprised that it's being held up.

dw13
06-08-2010, 08:17 AM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/19445/koscheck-suggests-olympic-style-drug-testing-needed-for-st-pierre-fight-champ-agrees.mma

Koscheck wants Olympic style drug testing vs. GSP

GSP, agrees.

Manny Pacman nuthuggers are enraged. :rolleyes:

Chilly_Willy
06-08-2010, 12:38 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/19445/koscheck-suggests-olympic-style-drug-testing-needed-for-st-pierre-fight-champ-agrees.mma

Koscheck wants Olympic style drug testing vs. GSP

GSP, agrees.

Manny Pacman nuthuggers are enraged. :rolleyes:

Koscheck trying to play mindgames? What are this fight goes to a decision?

two24four
06-08-2010, 12:53 PM
Koscheck trying to play mindgames? What are this fight goes to a decision?

I think this might just piss GSP off come the fight, this could backfire on Kos big time.

Zangetsu
06-08-2010, 12:57 PM
I've never heard any rumors of GSP using PEDs, and if anybody has ever seen clips of his workouts, the guy is a maniac in the gym, so this is definitely just mindgames by Kos.

I don't think Kos will last five rounds with GSP. If it goes to the ground, there's a good chance Kos will get choked out, and people forget that GSP has crisp/accurate striking.

http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/georges-stpierre_jon-fitch_6623.gifhttp://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Timchang/GSp-super.gifhttp://www.lmlyp.com/pics/albums/userpics/gsp_hughes_8.gifhttp://www.lmlyp.com/pics/albums/userpics/gsp_hughes_2.gif

He may be lacking KO power, and we don't really know how good/bad his chin is, as the punches that Serra landed would've dropped just about anybody. Not to mention that the first strike that Serra landed hit behind the ear, throwing GSP's balance/equilibrium out of whack.

Chilly_Willy
06-08-2010, 01:16 PM
I can't wait to see the takedowns. This fight is gonna be all over the ring.

Chilly_Willy
06-08-2010, 01:19 PM
http://www.lmlyp.com/pics/albums/userpics/gsp_hughes_2.gif

I love the guy in the back out of his chair like he was ejected.

Zangetsu
06-09-2010, 10:42 AM
I know it isn't the best looking card on paper, but there are some good fights on this weekend's UFC card. My picks:

Liddell over Franklin - Liddell is on mission, although this could be a short fight if either guy lands clean
Barry over CroCop - Big CroCop fan here, but too much of his success depended on intimidation, and that is completely gone
Thiago over Kampmann
Rothwell over Yvel
MacDonald over Condit
Griffin over Dunham - Is Griffin ever in boring fights?
Wiman over Danzig

dw13
06-09-2010, 10:50 AM
Franklin over Liddell - Could careless
Pat Barry over CroCop - this is going to be a fun standup war.
Thiago over Kampmann
Rothwell over Yvel
Condit over MacDonald
Griffin over Dunham - FOTN
Danzig over Wiman

Chilly_Willy
06-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Condit is fighting, yes!!! The natruuuuuuuual boooorn killer!! I like the under card a lot better in this lineup. Certainly one to tune in early on.

Zangetsu
06-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Faber making the move to 135 for his next fight. He's fighting Mizugaki in August. Cruz/Benavidez will be on the same card.

I wonder if Faber would fight Benavidez if he winds up beating Cruz (not that I think Benavidez has much of a chance against the much taller Cruz).

dw13
06-09-2010, 01:53 PM
Faber making the move to 135 for his next fight. He's fighting Mizugaki in August. Cruz/Benavidez will be on the same card.

I wonder if Faber would fight Benavidez if he winds up beating Cruz (not that I think Benavidez has much of a chance against the much taller Cruz).

I saw that, and if he doesn't want to fight Benavidez, I question what he's thinking. Is he thinking Cruz is going to beat him? Weird move at this time..

Chilly_Willy
06-09-2010, 03:13 PM
That last defeat could have rattled him. Fabor is a top talent but his last 6 fights those losses have been pretty brutal

decision win with Pulver
loose belt to Brown (first time knocked out?)
beat Pulver
loose again to Brown and break hand
beat Assuncao
Get his ass handed to him by Aldo

Zangetsu
06-09-2010, 03:29 PM
The sport caught up with him. He was always an undersized featherweight, and there is a lot more talent in the lower weight classes now. I think 135 is better fit for him, but I agree with dw13. With his protege in line for a title shot, this is just a weird time to make the move.

I'm sure they've talked about it, but this move doesn't show a whole lot of faith in Benavidez. Unless they've agreed that they'd fight each other if it came down to it, Faber is basically saying that he thinks he's going to be next in line for Cruz once Benavidez loses.

dw13
06-09-2010, 03:58 PM
Condit - MacDonald and Griffin - Dunham is going to be two really awesome fights.

Zangetsu
06-09-2010, 04:30 PM
Those are the two fights that I'm most excited for.

The main event is intriguing to me, but not because I think it is going to be a good fight. I want to see if this new Chuck can remain relevant. I've seen pictures of him, and he's in the best physical shape I've ever seen him. Granted, it has been his chin that has been his problem, but maybe a more fit Chuck could also be faster. Who knows? If he loses, I don't know if Dana will continue to let him fight.

two24four
06-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Those are the two fights that I'm most excited for.

The main event is intriguing to me, but not because I think it is going to be a good fight. I want to see if this new Chuck can remain relevant. I've seen pictures of him, and he's in the best physical shape I've ever seen him. Granted, it has been his chin that has been his problem, but maybe a more fit Chuck could also be faster. Who knows? If he loses, I don't know if Dana will continue to let him fight.

Dana said not that long ago that if Chuck loses on Saturday night that he's done fighting in the UFC.

Zangetsu
06-09-2010, 05:23 PM
I hadn't heard anything about that, but Dana already "retired" Chuck once. He never actually cut him, though, so who knows? I would imagine that Strikeforce/Dream would give Chuck a contract if he is cut, and I almost hope he wouldn't take it.

dw13
06-09-2010, 05:35 PM
I hadn't heard anything about that, but Dana already "retired" Chuck once. He never actually cut him, though, so who knows? I would imagine that Strikeforce/Dream would give Chuck a contract if he is cut, and I almost hope he wouldn't take it.

He would never cut him, I agree. He's still a brand name for Dana, there's no doubt.

Chilly_Willy
06-09-2010, 08:55 PM
Its been dishaerting to see Chuck get K.O.d and loose his last few fights but I think it would take a lot for Dana to cut him. If he manages to get knocked out early in the first or just get dominated maybe but if he hangs in and puts on a show I bet we see him back even if he looses.

dw13
06-09-2010, 08:58 PM
Its been dishaerting to see Chuck get K.O.d and loose his last few fights but I think it would take a lot for Dana to cut him. If he manages to get knocked out early in the first or just get dominated maybe but if he hangs in and puts on a show I bet we see him back even if he looses.

Eh... he could get KO'd 5 seconds into the fight and he wouldn't be "cut" just then. Dana would tell him to retire for good, Chuck would probably agree and he would receive a UFC paycheck pretty often...

Now if Chuck wanted to continue fighting and tell Dana he doesn't want to retire... then we have something on our hands.

Zangetsu
06-10-2010, 03:24 PM
After watching the UFC 115 press conference, Pat Barry is now my favorite UFC HW.

dw13
06-10-2010, 04:49 PM
After watching the UFC 115 press conference, Pat Barry is now my favorite UFC HW.

Missed the presser. I do like Pat Barry already though. What'd he say?

Zangetsu
06-10-2010, 05:10 PM
He was just talking about fulfilling his lifelong dream of becoming a ninja. He also mentioned that CroCop was right after Sagat (from Street Fighter) on his list of fighters he never wanted to fight. He just seems like a real down to Earth kid who doesn't take himself too seriously.

CroCop also had some good one-liners. When asked about a cut on his forehead, he said that a couple of ladies were helping him with his training last night. Then when asked if he was okay, he said he was but they weren't.

At one point in the conference Barry said that he'd spend two years staring out of a window if he beat CC, because he would be in shock. CC later said that if he lands his left high kick, Barry would still be staring out of a window for two years, but there would be a nurse to his left.

Really entertaining overall, and there was a lot of good info re: getting MMA legalized in Canada. Here's a picture of CC's cut:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2e6cy0h.jpg

dw13
06-10-2010, 05:12 PM
Sounds like a good presser, I'll have to find it later.

That cut looks nasty, Barry is going to look to re-open it.

That fight is going to be such a nasty standup war.

dw13
06-10-2010, 05:51 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/19489/mauricio-shogun-ruas-first-title-defense-likely-delayed-by-knee-surgery.mma

Knee surgery for Shogun. Doesn't seem serious (never know with his knee problems), but it'll be a bit until we see him again.

Zangetsu
06-10-2010, 06:07 PM
That sucks. I wonder if they'll have Rashad fight somebody for an interim belt. A rematch with Machida maybe? Is Lil Nog in the mix, or will he still fight Forrest? If it really isn't serious, obviously we'd just see the Rashad/Shogun fight later than expected.

phaneuf6
06-10-2010, 08:21 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/mma/story/?id=324257

No way.

Zangetsu
06-10-2010, 08:39 PM
He was wearing a Canucks hoodie when he said that, but that did get quite a rise from the Canadian press corps.

TBH, I've never been to an MMA event, but I know people who have, and they weren't impressed. Granted, they had terrible seats, and it's probably much more exciting if you're close to the action. I have been to many live hockey games, and I can't imagine that live MMA could be much more exciting than live hockey. Hockey is still the best live sport in my eyes.

Dubz
06-10-2010, 08:41 PM
He was wearing a Canucks hoodie when he said that, but that did get quite a rise from the Canadian press corps.

TBH, I've never been to an MMA event, but I know people who have, and they weren't impressed. Granted, they had terrible seats, and it's probably much more exciting if you're close to the action. I have been to many live hockey games, and I can't imagine that live MMA could be much more exciting than live hockey. Hockey is still the best live sport in my eyes.

If you are sitting near the boards...its really hard to compare to anything imo

keyboard
06-10-2010, 09:20 PM
Good weather and good conversation make baseball the best live sport.

two24four
06-10-2010, 10:29 PM
He was wearing a Canucks hoodie when he said that, but that did get quite a rise from the Canadian press corps.

TBH, I've never been to an MMA event, but I know people who have, and they weren't impressed. Granted, they had terrible seats, and it's probably much more exciting if you're close to the action. I have been to many live hockey games, and I can't imagine that live MMA could be much more exciting than live hockey. Hockey is still the best live sport in my eyes.

I know people who have been to a UFC event as well, they say it's way better on TV, they say they wont go again.

Chilly_Willy
06-11-2010, 09:28 AM
I like fighters that approach the sport with that attitude. There is so much sportsmanship in Big League MMA a lot like hockey. Dana does a good job at punishing the turds that try to ruin it. Don't get me wrong we don't want people pulling punches in stuff, but press conferences don't need to be unintelligible insults and posturing. Very refreshing to see in any sport.

dw13
06-12-2010, 09:33 PM
Rory MacDonald is going to be around for a long time.

Dubz
06-12-2010, 09:39 PM
That one kid got robbed....too bad because it would have been a good bout

two24four
06-12-2010, 11:34 PM
I'm guessing that's it for Chuck, better be anyways.

Rich KO's with a broken arm, that's tough, I liked him before that, I like him even more now.

Cro-Cop looked great tonight.

dw13
06-12-2010, 11:35 PM
For my sake, for my $50 dollars every PPV's sake, I hope that's the last time we see Chuck in the UFC.

Most impressive fighter of the night? Kampmann. He's always had the tools, he put them on display again tonight. He's right back in the mix like he was pre-Daley fight.

Props to CroCop. Like Dana said on twitter after, lesson learned Barry, CroCop isn't your friend. Once they started doing the smiling and hugging, I don't think Pat was the same vicious guy he was in the first.

Oh and Dunham has a really good future.

Zangetsu
06-13-2010, 12:25 AM
Haven't watched the prelims yet, but I think this card exceeded expectations. Everybody was talking about how weak it was, but there were three really good fights on the main card (not including the KO in the main event). Yvel/Rothwell had it's moments, but the third round killed the fight.

Props to Chuck. He'll go down as the first mainstream MMA superstar and one of the best strikers in the history of the sport, but he's got to be done.

It's crazy to think about, but MacDonald may have been the most well rounded fighter on the card tonight. Kampmann would be the other guy that might have him beat, but that kid is polished well beyond his years.

keyboard
06-13-2010, 12:40 PM
Why did Barry keep letting him up?

dw13
06-13-2010, 12:48 PM
Why did Barry keep letting him up?

He seems to do it often, he has done it in previous fights as well. Here's a question before the CroCop fight that sherdog asked him.

Sherdog.com: Is your instinct still to check on an injured opponent?

Barry: Iíve done that a lot. This is also my weakness. Iím not a bloodthirsty animal. Iíve hit guys, and this is bad for me, but Iíve hit some guys with some real stiff shots and not followed it up. Like -- boom -- then kind of like look at them to see if theyíre OK. Not OK, but if theyíre dazed enough that the ref would stop the fight, versus some guy being unconscious, and, while heís unconscious, me hit him six more times before the ref gets to him. Thatís also bad because Iíve had guys in really bad situations where if I was to just bump into them a little, Iíd finish the fight, and guys have gone from dazed to woken up. If you remember the Tim Hague fight [at UFC 98], when he stumbled back, he was out. He was like dazed. All I had to do was just touch him, but instead I backed up and looked at him. So by the time I got back to him, he was back awake again.

Hockeyis#1
06-14-2010, 01:22 AM
A lot of shit stirred up about the Condit/McDonald fight and the ending. Going into round 3, I'dve clearly said Condit was losing the fight 20-18. At the end of the third, I'dve given Condit the 10-8 round and called it a tie...which is unfortunate. I think at the end of the fight, Condit deserved to win. He did by far the most damage, came the closest to finishing, and while he was frequently taken down in the first two rounds, it's not like he got dominated on the ground, he was very active, didn't let McDonald advance, and got to his feet quickly in most cases. By the Pride scoring system (assuming I understand it correctly) Condit wins that decision.

While I think the stoppage was maybe unecessary, I still feel that Condit should have won that fight, however, he's one of my favorite fighters. So my bias is obviously present. Thoughts?

Edit-All sports seem to have that 'last minute come from behind to steal it' concept. The two minute drill, pulling the goalie, intentional foul, etc. I was glad though that someone FINALLY understood "Ok shit, I need to stop him in this round because I'm losing a decision....It's time to go balls to the wall" That sense of urgency has def been lacking in a lot of fights I've watched recently. Rampage & Thiago Silva vs Rashad, Dan Hardy vs GSP, Daley vs Koscheck, etc.....

Chilly_Willy
06-14-2010, 10:45 AM
My wife and I loved this UFC there was a lot going on.

Condit is my favorite fighter, time and time again he prooves nearly impossible to finish and his cardio allows him to bring it hard in late rounds. As controversial as that late call was I think it was the ref saying I am not going to let this guy loose a decision after that. No way Condit deserves to loose after that 3rd round domination, his opponent also looked like he stopped defending himself at the 8 sec mark when the ref stopped it. I thought it was a good call.

Does anyone think Barry went too easy on Crocop. I don't want to take away from the win it just seems like Barry clearly let opportunities go by and didn't exploit the injury on Crocops right cheek. That fight was entertaining but it just looked fishy like Barry did not want to beat him.

Ledel, its been a nice run but please hang it up.

Zangetsu
06-14-2010, 08:49 PM
I don't always agree with Dana, but he got it right on both of these issues.

1. I thought the stoppage was a little premature, but it was far from the worst stoppage I've seen in recent events. There's no way the ref stopped the fight because he thought Condit wouldn't win in a decision.

The refs job is to protect the fighters. MacDonald had taken a lot of damage, and his face was visibly swollen. He hadn't improved his position for a long time, and he wasn't doing much to protect himself.

As Dana said at the post-fight press conference, refs simply don't make decisions based on the time left in the fight. Any ref who does should be stripped of their certification.

2. Barry definitely went too easy on CroCop in the first round. Dana posted on his twitter, "Barry just learned a very expensive lesson. CroCop is not your friend."

The camaraderie shown between the two men was nice to see, but I think Barry was more concerned with putting on a show and respecting his idol than he was with finishing the fight. Had he jumped into CroCop's guard after the second knockdown, I'm fairly certain he would've been able to do enough to finish the fight.

The really strange thing about this whole situation is that it doesn't look like the UFC is going to offer CroCop a new contract. This was his last fight on the three fight deal he signed last year, so if he's going to continue to fight, it'll likely be over in Japan or in Strikeforce.

Barry will rebound, and there are rumors swirling of a Barry/Duffee matchup. That is a fight I'd love to see.

Chilly_Willy
06-16-2010, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I don't think Barry looses or Crocop gains anything from that fight, it was just a show, but IMO if Barry had turned it on I think Crocop would have been done. It looked like an emotional fight for Barry, I honestly don't think he could bring himself to pound on his idol and wanted him to go out on a win.

I have to say if that was his game plan it worked. Crocop had a smile on his face bigger than any fighter I have ever seen. The way he took the microphone at the end, ROTFL! I'm not sour on the fight either way, it was entertaining and a classy show of sportsmanship.

CayugaPosse
06-16-2010, 09:30 PM
He was wearing a Canucks hoodie when he said that, but that did get quite a rise from the Canadian press corps.

TBH, I've never been to an MMA event, but I know people who have, and they weren't impressed. Granted, they had terrible seats, and it's probably much more exciting if you're close to the action. I have been to many live hockey games, and I can't imagine that live MMA could be much more exciting than live hockey. Hockey is still the best live sport in my eyes.

A good friend of mine paid like $700 for seats right upfront in Montreal, and said he had the time of his life, and used the words "TV doesn't do justice to it", so it is deffinitely a matter of perspective based on seating.

Zangetsu
06-16-2010, 09:39 PM
I could see that being totally true, or I could see it as a case of your friend trying to justify his $700 purchase.

Either way, I'm sure that live fights are much better when you've got seats that are closer to the action.

keyboard
06-16-2010, 11:21 PM
I could see that being totally true, or I could see it as a case of your friend trying to justify his $700 purchase. Pretty sure it's the latter.

Chilly_Willy
06-17-2010, 08:37 AM
Ring side seats would be awesome and are probably the only way I would go. Any further away where you can't see the detail of where strikes are connecting, or how deep a submission is I don't think would be any fun. I have to believe the threshold of good seat to not knowing what is going on is not many rows back from the octagon.

Without having gone to a UFC event one thing that worries me is the general spectator demographic, especially when you get into some of the southern states in the U.S. The number of ignorant, loud, drunk fools could be overwhelming.

Zangetsu
06-17-2010, 01:12 PM
A bill legalizing MMA passed the State Senate today in Albany. It still has to pass the State Assembly, which may prove more difficult. Still, this is a step in the right direction.

Bellator featuring Hornbuckle/Askren tonight on FSN (8pm ET).

dw13
06-17-2010, 08:11 PM
Askren might not be exciting, but his wrestling is simply incredible. He can grapple for hours, and he is one of (if not the most) talented and accomplished wrestler ever to make the transition to MMA. I would of liked to see his standup more, but he was active on top and looked really sharp.

He's definitely one to keep an eye on from here on out.

Zangetsu
06-17-2010, 10:12 PM
Askren looked much better this fight than he did in his last one.

In his previous fight, he spent a lot of time on top, but he spent too much time scrambling and couldn't inflict much damage. In this fight he did a much better job at establishing positions and landing strikes.

He'll have to continue to round out his game with BJJ and some striking, but his wrestling really is some of the best I've ever seen.

dw13
06-20-2010, 09:05 PM
Oh,

Court McGee won TUF. I'll put money says he never fights a meaningful fight in his UFC existence.

Zangetsu
06-20-2010, 10:15 PM
Not taking that bet. TUF is all but irrelevant at this point (as is Jardine).

Yves Lavinge is apparently a quick learner. He totally screwed up that Wiman/Danzig fight last week, but he correctly checked to see if Davis was out when Grispi had him in a guillotine.

Little behind the live feed (DVR = no commercials), but I'm really hoping Shalorus takes out MMA's biggest douche.

dw13
06-20-2010, 10:22 PM
Going for Shalorus as well.

Grispi is impressive.

dw13
06-20-2010, 10:41 PM
Can't stand Varner. He was actually trying to get another point taken away there. Might be the only time I've seen a fighter do that.

Solid nice from WEC as always.

Zangetsu
06-20-2010, 11:36 PM
Yeah, that's unreal. Let the ref do his job, you do yours.

The WEC never fails to deliver. That Hominick/Jabouin fight was amazing. The pace that Jabouin comes with is unbelievable, and then the way that fight ended was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in a fight.

Chilly_Willy
06-22-2010, 10:37 AM
Wec was great, the main and co-main events, outstanding

Dubz
06-22-2010, 12:56 PM
Wec was great, the main and co-main events, outstanding

I really enjoyed it as well....some good fights.

Zangetsu
06-22-2010, 08:33 PM
Wand out of UFC 116 with a rib injury. Sexyama will fight Chris Leben. Yes, the same Chris Leben who just fought on Saturday night. Never liked the guy much, but stepping up like this is why he is the epitome of the word fighter.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/22/1531028/wanderlei-silva-injured-out-of-ufc

dw13
06-22-2010, 08:36 PM
That's a HUGE bummer.

Zangetsu
06-22-2010, 08:39 PM
Yeah, Wand/Akiyama would've been a great fight. Hell, almost all of Wand's fights are great.

Chilly_Willy
06-22-2010, 09:05 PM
I really like Leben but his fights are so one dimensional, over the top right and his reach is pretty short at that. It just seems so easy for a technical fighter to come up with a plan for him. But yeah stepping up for a fight on such short notice is always cool to see.

mrtybrodur30
06-22-2010, 09:48 PM
Finally got my Strikeforce tickets(umm i mean SF/M-1 Global tickets...hahaha) in hand for this Saturday in San Jose. Couldnt pass up on another opportunity to see Fedor fight live, never seen him fight live before. Should be interesting to see Cyborg fight and also the Le/Smith rematch but really cant wait for Fedor/Werdum.

My bro and his friend just got a few tix for UFC 117 as well, tickets were basically the same price and mine are very close to the cage his are cheap for the UFC so hes out there. Would love to see a live UFC event but the amount of $$$ you would have to spend to have worthwhile seats its not even worth it when you can spend $45 for a UFC ppv. But atleast 117 should be pretty cool, Silva fight Sonnen and Big Country/JDS, Hughes/Almeida

Zangetsu
06-22-2010, 10:23 PM
Wow, have fun. That's definitely a solid card, but just being able to say you saw Fedor live is enough to make it worth attending.

Chilly_Willy
06-23-2010, 10:45 AM
I have not neen a live Fedor fight is this event on cable can you give me date and channel hint, i've never seen strikeforce.

Have fun that sounds awesome.

Are there any reports on Broc? Did he loose a lot of form from that medical issue?

mrtybrodur30
06-23-2010, 11:35 AM
I have not neen a live Fedor fight is this event on cable can you give me date and channel hint, i've never seen strikeforce.

Have fun that sounds awesome.

Are there any reports on Broc? Did he loose a lot of form from that medical issue?Strikeforce Fedor/Werdum is on this Saturday and its on Showtime.

Brock Lesnar said his health has not been an issue for months and he cant wait to get in the cage against Carwin. That card is even weaker now with Wand out but that main event should be awesome, who knows who will win that one.

dw13
06-23-2010, 11:39 AM
The Brock/Carwin card looks awesome to me, even without Wand.

Lytle/Brown is going to be a crazy fight. Both guys are always looking for a show. Bonnar/Krystolf doesn't really do it for me but they had an entertaining first fight and Pellegrino vs. George Sotiro is going to be a war!!

Congrats on the SF tickets, mrty. Have fun with that!!

Chilly_Willy
06-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Looking forward to it, 2 of the biggest guys going head to head, I'll try to catch strikeforce too.

Chilly_Willy
06-23-2010, 08:38 PM
my wife and I found the showtime listing and have it set for DVR, thanks ;)

Zangetsu
06-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Enjoy.

Fedor is one of the greats, but Werdum could give him some trouble if he can take the match to the mat. Looking forward to the card for sure.

dw13
06-24-2010, 03:49 PM
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/24/1534983/keith-jardine-cut-by-the-ufc

Jardine Cut.

Zangetsu
06-24-2010, 04:07 PM
It's about time. Jardine/Mousasi sometime this fall?

BTW, there are rumblings that Sexyama might refuse to fight Leben. Dana probably won't be too happy with him if he does.

dw13
06-24-2010, 04:11 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/19674/sources-despite-protests-yoshihiro-akiyama-will-fight-chris-leben-at-ufc-116.mma

Sounds like it'll happen.

Surpringly enough, now I'm hoping Leben KO's him.

Chilly_Willy
06-24-2010, 04:15 PM
Sucks for Jardine he was very entertaining but his fights were getting as painful to watch as Liddell's

I have respect for their accomplishments but once you start getting repeatedly knocked out like that probably time to move on.

But one qestion about Keith Jardine plagues me. Is he really the Techno Viking?

Zangetsu
06-24-2010, 04:31 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/19674/sources-despite-protests-yoshihiro-akiyama-will-fight-chris-leben-at-ufc-116.mma

Sounds like it'll happen.

Surpringly enough, now I'm hoping Leben KO's him.Akiyama was hated over in Japan. Part of the hatred stemmed from his Korean heritage, but besides the controversy in the Saku match, I just get the sense that Akiyama thinks awfully highly of himself. I'm starting to lean towards rooting for Leben, too. Although, that is something that I'm very hesitant to do.

dw13
06-24-2010, 04:32 PM
Akiyama was hated over in Japan. Part of the hatred stemmed from his Korean heritage, but besides the controversy in the Saku match, I just get the sense that Akiyama thinks awfully highly of himself. I'm starting to lean towards rooting for Leben, too. Although, that is something that I'm very hesitant to do.

Yeah, you and me both.

Zangetsu
06-24-2010, 04:33 PM
Sucks for Jardine he was very entertaining but his fights were getting as painful to watch as Liddell's

I have respect for their accomplishments but once you start getting repeatedly knocked out like that probably time to move on.

But one qestion about Keith Jardine plagues me. Is he really the Techno Viking?
:lol:

At this point, I might take the Techno Viking to beat Jardine if they fought. DREAM execs, make it happen.

Zangetsu
06-24-2010, 04:35 PM
BTW, while we're on the subject of the techno viking:

YouTube- Pat Barry vs Techno Viking

mrtybrodur30
06-25-2010, 12:15 AM
Bellator was awesome again tonight. Very happy Shlemenko won. Been a big fan since I first saw him this season. Devastating striker who is very fun to watch. Baker made a huge mistake trying to stand with Shlemenko and paid the price. Shlemenko has got his work cut out for himself facing Lombard though.

Warren just outworked Pitbull in the 2nd and 3rd. Pitbull looked amazing in the first but it looked like he gassed out after that. Tough loss for him especially since he was so close to taking it in the first. I think and hope Soto destroys Warren.

Great time to be a MMA fan so many great fights nowadays and so many ways to view them, I really like what Bellator has been doing. Im excited for a bunch of the fights they have coming up.

dw13
06-25-2010, 08:31 AM
Yeah, I can't stand Joe Warren either.