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Tormy
03-12-2008, 11:57 PM
(Alright, I'll bite the bullet. With all of the Jays discussion getting thrown around and clumped in so many other threads, why not keep it all together, like the hockey threads?)

With baseball just around the corner, I am very excited to see what this squad can do this year. Will they finish third? Will they finish second but miss the playoffs? Or will they finally return to the playoffs?

Obviously, the main issue is health, and I think the Jays made some very nice moves to give themselves some depth. Shannon Stewart is a solid guy to have around that can be thrown in just about any situation (hitting, running, fielding), as long as he isn't over-used. Barajas will provide a slight upgrade over Fasano, though you have to love having that mustache around. Eckstein is a decent option (though expensive) to have around. And Benitez...well, you know.

I am very pleased that they kept Rios around and didn't trade him for Lincecum or Cain, as I see him really breaking out (a 30/20 season sounds about right).

I hope they keep Reed around and give him a fair shot at some playing time. I think he can still be the player that he used to be. Especially in a role where he is splitting time.

The rotation? No way Litsch sticks as the number 5 guy. Why? The Jays need a lefty in the rotation and I see them filling that hole with either Chacin (who was sent down to AAA to get his stuff back, despite never being very dominant) or bringing somebody else in. Chacin can do well with that defense. Especially with the upgrade of Rolen (defensively).

And the "pen is mighty". Ryan and League (along with McDonald, my favourite Jays) should help quite a bit.

Vegas is giving the Jays a 30:1 shot at winning the World Series this year. Lets see what happens. :cool:

Shady6833
03-13-2008, 12:03 AM
With the Jays rotation they are going to have to get solid offense all year to contend. As much as I hate to say it that rotation is a) too young and b) has too many question marks surounding it. However if a couple of those question marks turn into exclamation points then I see the Jays having a real shot at the playoffs.

two24four
03-13-2008, 12:03 AM
Good idea, Go Jays Go !!!!

Cant say I was to upset seeing Chacin sent down today, something about him I just dont like, but guess we may need him at some point.

As much as I liked Stewart his 1st time with the Jays, I'm still not sold him making this team, I would still rather have Lind over him, Lind is also having a great spring so far.

secol
03-13-2008, 12:05 AM
Good idea, Go Jays Go !!!!

Cant say I was to upset seeing Chacin sent down today, something about him I just dont like, but guess we may need him at some point.

As much as I liked Stewart his 1st time with the Jays, I'm still not sold him making this team, I would still rather have Lind over him, Lind is also having a great spring so far.
might it have been his cologne??? :D

two24four
03-13-2008, 12:09 AM
With the Jays rotation they are going to have to get solid offense all year to contend. As much as I hate to say it that rotation is a) too young and b) has too many question marks surounding it. However if a couple of those question marks turn into exclamation points then I see the Jays having a real shot at the playoffs.

As long as the top 3 guys stay healthy, (which is along shot I know) Halladay, Burnett, McGown, the only guys I worry about are Marcum and Litsch in the 4-5 hole, McGowan as I said before has the stuff to be an ace one day, I read something the other day that said if McGowan played for one of the Yanks or Red Sox he would already be a pretty big name in baseball, cause he's that good of a pitcher, and it was not anything from the Canadian media.

Tormy
03-13-2008, 12:17 AM
As long as the top 3 guys stay healthy, (which is along shot I know) Halladay, Burnett, McGown, the only guys I worry about are Marcum and Litsch in the 4-5 hole, McGowan as I said before has the stuff to be an ace one day, I read something the other day that said if McGowan played for one of the Yanks or Red Sox he would already be a pretty big name in baseball, cause he's that good of a pitcher, and it was not anything from the Canadian media.

Thats very bold of you. McGowan is as solid as a #4 as you can ask for, but he has some strides to make before he really makes the jump. He needs to pitch better from the get-go, he struggled at the start of last season, but once he settled in, he put up some great numbers (3.67 ERA, 1.14 WHIP after the all-star break). He also needs to pitch better to left-handers, though those numbers may have been skewed a bit due to the strong left-handed hitters in the division. His strikeout rate improved quite a bit over the course of the season too. Lets see if he can keep things up after all the hitters have gotten a read off of him.

I like Litsch' story. That first win with his father in the stands was the highlight of last season, if you ask me, and I don't think he is that much of a downgrade from Janssen (as a starter), but they need a good lefty in the rotation.

secol
03-13-2008, 09:36 AM
yeah I think I heard he was top-5 or top-10 in K's after the AS break......

two24four
03-13-2008, 09:41 AM
Thats very bold of you. McGowan is as solid as a #4 as you can ask for, but he has some strides to make before he really makes the jump. He needs to pitch better from the get-go, he struggled at the start of last season, but once he settled in, he put up some great numbers (3.67 ERA, 1.14 WHIP after the all-star break). He also needs to pitch better to left-handers, though those numbers may have been skewed a bit due to the strong left-handed hitters in the division. His strikeout rate improved quite a bit over the course of the season too. Lets see if he can keep things up after all the hitters have gotten a read off of him.

I like Litsch' story. That first win with his father in the stands was the highlight of last season, if you ask me, and I don't think he is that much of a downgrade from Janssen (as a starter), but they need a good lefty in the rotation.

ESPN says that McGowan could be like a Halladay with more K's, so take that for what it's worth.

phaneuf6
03-13-2008, 10:11 AM
As much as Rios is solid in the OF, I can't help but think how much stronger the rotation would be with Lincecum or Cain in there.

I think if the Jays play up to their potential and stay healthy they can challenge for at least 2nd in the division and the wildcard for sure. Once they get in the playoffs anything can happen. Lets hope for turnaround seasons from Thomas and Wells along with the continued development of Rios, McGowan, Marcum, and Hill.

two24four
03-13-2008, 12:04 PM
As much as Rios is solid in the OF, I can't help but think how much stronger the rotation would be with Lincecum or Cain in there.



It would have been nice to get one of those guys, but in the long run we would have missed Rios and his 100 Runs, 20-25 Hr's, 90-100 RBI's, 20-30 SB's, .280-.300 AVG, plus he's great in the feild as well, that would have been tough to get from Lind or Stairs, as much as I like those guys.

phaneuf6
03-13-2008, 12:19 PM
It would have been nice to get one of those guys, but in the long run we would have missed Rios and his 100 Runs, 20-25 Hr's, 90-100 RBI's, 20-30 SB's, .280-.300 AVG, plus he's great in the feild as well, that would have been tough to get from Lind or Stairs, as much as I like those guys.

Yeah its the same with anything though. You're always going to have to sacrifice to gain and hindsight is 20/20.

Lineup?

Eckstein
Rios
Wells
Thomas
Rolen
Overbay
Zaun
Hill
3rd OF

?

Shady6833
03-13-2008, 02:33 PM
I'll throw my two cents in on the lineup
Johnson
Eckstein
Wells
Thomas
Rios
Rolen
Hill
Overbay
Zaun

Hawkeye
03-13-2008, 02:35 PM
Yeah its the same with anything though. You're always going to have to sacrifice to gain and hindsight is 20/20.

Lineup?

Eckstein
Rios
Wells
Thomas
Rolen
Overbay
Zaun
Hill
3rd OF

?

IMO, Johnson should still leadoff. I'd probably put Eckstein 9th. Maybe Overbay 5th over Rolen as well

two24four
03-13-2008, 03:00 PM
Yeah its the same with anything though. You're always going to have to sacrifice to gain and hindsight is 20/20.

Lineup?

Eckstein
Rios
Wells
Thomas
Rolen
Overbay
Zaun
Hill
3rd OF

?

This looks about right to me, or close enough anyways, they have already said Eckstein will leadoff, and Overbay will not be hitting 8th Shady, at least he should not be anyways.

Shady6833
03-13-2008, 03:17 PM
This looks about right to me, or close enough anyways, they have already said Eckstein will leadoff, and Overbay will not be hitting 8th Shady, at least he should not be anyways.

Ya I don't think he will either, I would have him their just because I see 8 as the second cleanup spot where If you have a deep enough lineup a lot of rbi can be generated.

two24four
03-13-2008, 03:24 PM
Looks like Ryan will pitch one inning tomorrow vs the Rays.

mrtybrodur30
03-13-2008, 08:59 PM
here is the projected lineup from cbs sports

1. Eckstein SS
2. Overbay 1B
3. Rios RF
4. Thomas DH
5. Wells CF
6. Rolen 3B
7. Hill 2B
8. Lind LF
9. Zaun C

looks pretty good but will you guys stay healthy, if you can it could be a good year for you guys.

Hawkeye
03-13-2008, 09:03 PM
here is the projected lineup from cbs sports

1. Eckstein SS
2. Overbay 1B
3. Rios RF
4. Tjomas DH
5. Wells CF
6. Rolen 3B
7. Hill 2B
8. Lind LF
9. Zaun C

looks pretty good but will you guys stay healthy, if you can it could be a good year for you guys.

I'd like to see Lind land a full time gig, but I doubt that will happen

phaneuf6
03-13-2008, 10:33 PM
Gibbons already said Wells is hitting in that 3 spot so..

Shady6833
03-13-2008, 11:00 PM
speaking of Gibbons I would like to know what the HI Jays faithful thinks of him? I've been thinking that he is a major piece of what's wrong with that ball club, however I have been publicly trounced for my views before and would like to be enlightened on other's feeling on this subject.

two24four
03-13-2008, 11:48 PM
Gibbons already said Wells is hitting in that 3 spot so..

I heard that as well........

About Gibby, I'm 50/50 on him, sometimes I like him, others I want him gone, thing is though, Gibby and J.P. where roomates in AAA years ago, and have been very close ever since, I'm guessing J.P. only lets him go if he really, really has too, if he ever does, I would not mind seeing Witt get his chance.

Farmerbob42
03-14-2008, 09:51 AM
with eckstein leading off i dont really see johnson's use in the lineup, id rather have lind in then

secol
03-14-2008, 10:00 AM
too late Lind already got sent down lol

phaneuf6
03-14-2008, 11:21 AM
I don't understand how you're supposed to make the team. Lind had a great spring and only has upside to him. Stewart and Stairs are in their twilight years.

two24four
03-14-2008, 02:52 PM
Ryan pitched the 1st inning today and went 3 up 3 down with 2 K's, not bad for his 1st time back.

Roy Hinske
03-15-2008, 11:07 AM
Lind needs to be up over either Stewart or Stairs.

Hawkeye
03-15-2008, 12:37 PM
The way they are treating Lind, I almost hope they trade him and that he puts up very good numbers elsewhere... He would be a great addition to alot of teams IMO

b_illin
03-15-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't understand how you're supposed to make the team. Lind had a great spring and only has upside to him. Stewart and Stairs are in their twilight years.

They want him to get the consistent AB's he won't get on the big squad. He'll be up at some point, but I think it is a great decision to let him get 200+ AB's at the AAA level before he gets called up.

PS: they may want to trade him with Snyder coming along (you do the math, Rios, Wells & Snyder...unless Lind is the DH, where does he fit?) nicely, so getting him AB's is key to showcasing what the kid's got. Better for him to play everyday than sit on bench in Toronto and place 1-2 times a week.

phaneuf6
03-15-2008, 02:18 PM
They want him to get the consistent AB's he won't get on the big squad. He'll be up at some point, but I think it is a great decision to let him get 200+ AB's at the AAA level before he gets called up.

PS: they may want to trade him with Snyder coming along (you do the math, Rios, Wells & Snyder...unless Lind is the DH, where does he fit?) nicely, so getting him AB's is key to showcasing what the kid's got. Better for him to play everyday than sit on bench in Toronto and place 1-2 times a week.

Yeah what I meant was I thought he should be starting the majority of games in LF for the Jays over Stairs/Stewart/Johnson.

two24four
03-16-2008, 03:33 PM
I just read that both the Rays and Mets would not mind trading for Reed Johnson.

phaneuf6
03-16-2008, 03:43 PM
I just read that both the Rays and Mets would not mind trading for Reed Johnson.
The Mets need someone to cover for Alou while he's out. Any pitching prospects?

phaneuf6
03-19-2008, 01:36 PM
Tallet looked good out there today.

2.0 IP
0 H
4 Ks
1 BB
0 ER

keys2aFranchise
03-19-2008, 02:13 PM
it's nice to see baseball on TV again

phaneuf6
03-22-2008, 01:14 PM
Though the Blue Jays have denied it, scouts at the Blue Jays game Saturday said Reed Johnson is currently on waivers.
Johnson would be out of a job in Toronto if Shannon Stewart is chosen for a role as a part-time outfielder. The Jays have been attempting to trade him.

Rotoworld.com

secol
03-23-2008, 10:12 AM
and it's official......I personally don't like this move, but that's just me......

keys2aFranchise
03-23-2008, 11:21 AM
Financially it makes sense- Reed was going to make twice the money that Stewart will make.

Neither of them are ideal corner outfielders.

two24four
03-23-2008, 11:34 AM
Kind of sucks, I do like him, but I was ok with him leaving, but I thought it was going to be through a trade, I guess they could not find a trade for him, you would think they could have at least got a pick or two for him...............I dont think it will take long for him to get on a team, he's just what some teams need, you know your getting 150% every game from Reed.

I hope this does not come back to bite them in the ass.

b_illin
03-23-2008, 12:21 PM
I'm going to miss Reed, but I guess I understand why they did this...not sure why they didn't hang onto him for a month or two when someone might go down and need a guy like Reed who can play CF, bat leadoff, etc. - basically very surprised they just released him for nada.

keyboard
03-23-2008, 03:50 PM
I'm going to miss Reed, but I guess I understand why they did this...not sure why they didn't hang onto him for a month or two when someone might go down and need a guy like Reed who can play CF, bat leadoff, etc. - basically very surprised they just released him for nada.Same here. Maybe he just didn't want to stick around. I mean, if I gave my heart to a team and they treated me like that, I think I'd go elsewhere, too.

secol
03-23-2008, 06:37 PM
and DET would've been a good fit I think.....Granderson down for a month

two24four
03-23-2008, 06:48 PM
Rolen broke a finger today, sounds like he wont be ready for opening day now, Scutaro will take his spot while he's out.

Hawkeye
03-23-2008, 06:58 PM
Rolen broke a finger today, sounds like he wont be ready for opening day now, Scutaro will take his spot while he's out.

Great... now the injuries start BEFORE the season :rolleyes:

Shady6833
03-23-2008, 11:41 PM
Rolen broke a finger today, sounds like he wont be ready for opening day now, Scutaro will take his spot while he's out.

Trade one bandaid 3b for another and this was bound to happen, before the season is embarassing though

two24four
03-24-2008, 12:42 AM
Trade one bandaid 3b for another and this was bound to happen, before the season is embarassing though

Yeah, but this is more of a fluke injury then anything, it could have happend to anyone, least it does not sound like he'll be out long.

secol
03-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Yeah, but this is more of a fluke injury then anything, it could have happend to anyone, least it does not sound like he'll be out long.
for now anyways......






if you can't tell I am not a big fan of Rolen or Glaus......

Farmerbob42
03-24-2008, 03:19 PM
i was surprised to see this, i was hoping for a trade as well... maybe we'll see lind in a while.

keyboard
03-24-2008, 03:47 PM
Anyone getting a flex pack?

phaneuf6
03-24-2008, 04:41 PM
Anyone getting a flex pack?
Was looking into it, posted a question I had about the Toronto Star ones earlier but I didn't get a response. What's the deal with them?

b_illin
03-24-2008, 04:53 PM
Twoonie Tuesday dudes, I'm telling you! (the seats aren't great, but the atmosphere is!)

Re: flex packs, I always find it easy enough to get tickets gameday, so I never both with flex packs as you never know if something will come up on a day you have a ticket - I'd rather play a scalper $5-10 more and buy tickets day of...but that's just me!

gagne21
03-24-2008, 05:51 PM
Twoonie Tuesday dudes, I'm telling you! (the seats aren't great, but the atmosphere is!)

Re: flex packs, I always find it easy enough to get tickets gameday, so I never both with flex packs as you never know if something will come up on a day you have a ticket - I'd rather play a scalper $5-10 more and buy tickets day of...but that's just me!
agreed here, I've never had an issue getting tickets at the gate. Plus I don't like having to be committed like you would if yu bought a flex pack.

Once again agreed on the Toonie Tuesday thing, they're easily the funnest games of the year.

phaneuf6
03-24-2008, 06:05 PM
agreed here, I've never had an issue getting tickets at the gate. Plus I don't like having to be committed like you would if yu bought a flex pack.

Once again agreed on the Toonie Tuesday thing, they're easily the funnest games of the year.
Yeah that's the only thing. Its nice saving the money though.

keyboard
03-25-2008, 09:24 AM
Was looking into it, posted a question I had about the Toronto Star ones earlier but I didn't get a response. What's the deal with them?I looked into it and the only seats left for decent games are terrible, so it's not really an option.

Farmerbob42
03-25-2008, 10:24 AM
looks like they are trying to sign rios to a long term deal now

keyboard
03-25-2008, 11:33 AM
looks like they are trying to sign rios to a long term deal nowAnd Hill, I think.

two24four
03-25-2008, 01:30 PM
That did not take long, Reed Johnson signed a one year deal with the Cubs.

keyboard
03-25-2008, 01:50 PM
That did not take lone, Reed Johnson signed a one year deal with the Cubs.Well, at least he can't hurt us now.

Farmerbob42
03-25-2008, 10:15 PM
is the thinking that if he isn't in the leadoff spot than shannon brings more to the table? or is this just a money thing?

moans
03-25-2008, 10:30 PM
purely economical.

keyboard
03-26-2008, 01:27 AM
is the thinking that if he isn't in the leadoff spot than shannon brings more to the table? or is this just a money thing?Johnson lost that spot when they got Eckstein. Stewart will be batting near the bottom. I think it was more than economical. Don't be surprised to see Johnson hit the DL sometime this season.

Farmerbob42
03-26-2008, 03:50 PM
yeh, i know ecks is leadoff. Id rather have lind than stewart, more power and more arm too

b_illin
03-26-2008, 04:45 PM
yeh, i know ecks is leadoff. Id rather have lind than stewart, more power and more arm too

Yeah, but playing 2 games a week is not going to help Lind develop. He needs to play at least the first half at AAA so he can get some consistent AB's so he is ready to start next season.

Farmerbob42
03-28-2008, 12:44 PM
how would he only play 2 games a week if he was the starting LF?

two24four
03-31-2008, 11:27 AM
As long as the rain holds off in NY, the Jays play there 1st game in about 35 mins, I see they have Wells hitting 4th today.

dripsey3
03-31-2008, 12:17 PM
Yanks vs Jays game is delayed cause of rain.

OilersFan
03-31-2008, 12:48 PM
They keep saying there will be baseball today in NY though and its not gonna be cancelled. Rain delays suck.

dripsey3
03-31-2008, 01:00 PM
They keep saying there will be baseball today in NY though and its not gonna be cancelled. Rain delays suck.

They sure do. It is saying light rain in all the forecasts I've seen. Fingers crossed it goes ahead today.

keyboard
03-31-2008, 01:14 PM
Unofficially it's been postponed according to ESPN.

two24four
03-31-2008, 01:20 PM
FAN 590 says it still might go, I guess the rain has stoped and some of the Jays are out throwing the ball around.

OilersFan
03-31-2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah Sportsnet just said that its looking better outside right now, but there is some bad weather "in the area" that they are concerned about. They showed Cashman and Girardi on the field talking with the umps and some of the Jays tossing the ball around, so its looks promising for a game.

two24four
03-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Gmae called off, will be played tomorrow night at 7:05 PM, I'm guessing it wont be on TV though, Sportsnet has the Leafs game tomorrow night.

dripsey3
03-31-2008, 01:28 PM
Yahoo are saying the game is postponed as well.

OilersFan
03-31-2008, 01:30 PM
Officially cancelled. Make up game will be tomorrow at 7:05. :cry:

keyboard
03-31-2008, 01:39 PM
Burnett is out on the field throwing the ball around. You would think with his injury problems he'd just learn to sit still once in a while.

b_illin
03-31-2008, 03:03 PM
how would he only play 2 games a week if he was the starting LF?

He wouldn't be the starting LF with Stairs on the team - that's why he is better off at AAA for at least the first half of the season.

keyboard
03-31-2008, 04:06 PM
Gmae called off, will be played tomorrow night at 7:05 PM, I'm guessing it wont be on TV though, Sportsnet has the Leafs game tomorrow night.Someone has to pick it up for tomorrow. I would be pissed if I couldn't see the opener.

OilersFan
03-31-2008, 04:33 PM
Someone has to pick it up for tomorrow. I would be pissed if I couldn't see the opener.

Agreed. Maybe TSN would if sportsnet doesn't?

two24four
03-31-2008, 05:19 PM
By the way it looks, I thnk TSN did pick it up for tomorrow night, sweet.

keyboard
04-01-2008, 09:37 AM
By the way it looks, I thnk TSN did pick it up for tomorrow night, sweet.Wicked, thanks for the update. Now I just have to find a bar downtown that will play it for me instead of stupid Leaf hockey.

two24four
04-01-2008, 12:02 PM
60 percent chance of thunderstorms tonight in NY, they still might not get this game in :mad::(

keyboard
04-01-2008, 12:48 PM
60 percent chance of thunderstorms tonight in NY, they still might not get this game in :mad::(I heard that during yesterday's broadcast. As great as outdoor stadiums are, they don't work so well where weather is an actual concern.

phaneuf6
04-01-2008, 08:24 PM
Not over yet but god damn, don't tell me it's going to be like this with RISP all year.

Lucca Brazzi
04-01-2008, 09:59 PM
Yanks win, good for me, but I have to say I thought your guy Halliday was impressive. Still has Ace stuff. What was that bad baserunning gaffe by Rios? That was a potential momentum shifter you can't get caught off the bag like that.

keyboard
04-02-2008, 11:36 AM
I wish Hill went for that triple.

Farmerbob42
04-02-2008, 01:43 PM
yeh, having wang and halladay, that worked well for me hah

and stairs might be hurt...

b_illin
04-02-2008, 02:03 PM
yeh, having wang and halladay, that worked well for me hah

and stairs might be hurt...

I saw that - what happened? (this might give your boy Lind a shot as he bats left as well, does he not?)

Farmerbob42
04-02-2008, 05:41 PM
yup, bats left

"Leftfielder Matt Stairs (http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/players/bio/?id=1056&hubname=mlb-blue_jays) (4/2, sore left hip flexor) was not in the startinglineup for Wednesday's game against New York."

phaneuf6
04-02-2008, 07:26 PM
Wow scary moment with Burnett there. Seems to be ok.

I like the way Barajas is playing behind the plate. He's calling a good game back there and I hope we see him more often than Zaun this year.

two24four
04-02-2008, 09:34 PM
Burnett looked good tonight, as did Tallet, good game, nice to see Wells hitting well again.

snoopzen
04-03-2008, 12:25 PM
Wow scary moment with Burnett there. Seems to be ok. Geez. Any time this guy so much as tries to hop over the white field markings you have to hold your breath and hope this isn't the first of this season's trips to the DL.

keyboard
04-04-2008, 01:49 PM
So, who else will be at the game tonight? I'll be in left field, drunk and belligerent.

two24four
04-06-2008, 03:23 PM
Jays looked awesome in every game this weekend vs the Red Sox, hitting and pitching is looking great, 3-0 for the sweep.

You can tell the long trip for the Sox is starting tp catch up with them. Lugo with 3 E's today.

vinzanity
04-06-2008, 03:37 PM
Hopefully, the offense will keep hitting cuz our starters and bullpen have been rock solid for the past 6 games now.

I'm just loving the new approach of being aggressive on the base path, taking high-risk, high-reward chances, yet just going out there and playing Blue Jays baseball.

If we can get 50 wins at home and go .500 on the road, which there is a serious chance of us doing assuming everyone stays healthy, we will end up with 90-91 wins in the season and that should put us in the running for the Wild Card spot.

smitty42
04-06-2008, 05:27 PM
Line of the day:
Good: Frank Thomas: 1-4, 1 Run, 4 RBI, Grand Salami

Bad: Julio Lugo: 0-4, 2 LOB, 3 Costly Errors

phaneuf6
04-06-2008, 07:24 PM
Wow what a great weekend. I'm pretty confident in the Jays' ability to show up against the Yanks and BoSox but its the Tampa Bays and Baltimores that we HAVE to beat this year.

keyboard
04-06-2008, 10:38 PM
I can't believe McDonald made that first play from his knees and then ran out to centre field and made the second play before getting nailed by Wells. If only he could hit.

phaneuf6
04-07-2008, 06:52 PM
I can't believe McDonald made that first play from his knees and then ran out to centre field and made the second play before getting nailed by Wells. If only he could hit.
As much as I like Johnny Mac I think he was trying to be a hero on that play where him and Wells collided.

Farmerbob42
04-08-2008, 01:24 AM
ha, and i like thomas starting early, usually he's slow out of the gate

two24four
04-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Jays catch a break as they wont have face Harden now, man this guy is like the Martin Havlat of Baseball, if he could stay healthy for a full season he could be in the running for the Cy Young, he's that good when healthy.

keyboard
04-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Jays catch a break as they wont have face Harden now, man this guy is like the Martin Havlat of Baseball, if he could stay healthy for a full season he could be in the running for the Cy Young, he's that good when healthy.Is Havlat that good? I wouldn't consider him MVP caliber even if he did stay healthy.

two24four
04-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Is Havlat that good? I wouldn't consider him MVP caliber even if he did stay healthy.

I dont mean he's like Havlat skill wise, I mean he cant stay healthy like Havlat.

Havlat is pretty good though when he's healthy, I would not say MVP good though.

moans
04-08-2008, 02:31 PM
Harden out already, what a surprise! Its seems that the A's starter tomorrow is not going to be making his start. Looks like a good opportuniy for the Jays.

Tormy
04-08-2008, 06:45 PM
Ugh, here we go again.

Great series against the Sox and we can't follow it up.

OilersFan
04-08-2008, 06:49 PM
Wow does Burnett look bad right now.

Tormy
04-08-2008, 06:51 PM
I just hope we get a couple more innings out of him. One of the worst things that can happen to the Jays is having their starter after Halladay go a couple innings and fatigue the bullpen for the rest of the week.

phaneuf6
04-08-2008, 06:55 PM
Man it looked like he was just trying to throw everything 100mph instead of picking spots and throwing good pitches.

two24four
04-08-2008, 07:35 PM
awww yeah, 6-6 game now.

phaneuf6
04-08-2008, 07:37 PM
Nice. Stairs just can't avoid HIDPs though.

OilersFan
04-08-2008, 08:57 PM
Thomas is CLUTCH

keyboard
04-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Accardo of all people getting the loss. Go figure.

Farmerbob42
04-08-2008, 09:55 PM
ouch, what a messed up game

keyboard
04-10-2008, 11:43 PM
Swept at home. I don't even want to look at the LOBs. Like last year the pitching is there but the hitting is inconsistent. Hopefully things fix themselves soon.

Farmerbob42
04-11-2008, 12:48 AM
sweep the red sox, get swept by the As, oi

two24four
04-11-2008, 10:52 AM
Yup same ole Jays so far, beat the tough teams like the Red Sox and Yanks, but have probs with the teams they should beat like the A's and T-Bay. etc.....:rolleyes: hope they can fix that real soon.

phaneuf6
04-12-2008, 07:43 PM
Meant to post this here earlier... great read

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1127665/1/index.htm

keyboard
04-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Well, that sucks.

two24four
04-13-2008, 11:28 AM
B.J Ryan is back today off the DL, if they need him to pitch today he will, sounds like they sent League down to AAA to open up a roster spot for Ryan.

keyboard
04-13-2008, 03:08 PM
B.J Ryan is back today off the DL, if they need him to pitch today he will, sounds like they sent League down to AAA to open up a roster spot for Ryan.Good riddance. I'll never be sold on League.

two24four
04-13-2008, 05:49 PM
And Ryan with the save, good stuff, hope he can stay healthy now.

After going 0-3 vs the A's, we get another sweep 3-0 vs Texas.

keyboard
04-13-2008, 10:33 PM
And Ryan with the save, good stuff, hope he can stay healthy now.

After going 0-3 vs the A's, we get another sweep 3-0 vs Texas.Not his prettiest save with the triple but it's all the same on the score sheet.

secol
04-14-2008, 10:03 AM
wouldn't it be funny if the Jays keep winning/losing VIA sweeps? Anyways Ryan back is good news for sure......

smitty42
04-14-2008, 10:24 AM
wouldn't it be funny if the Jays keep winning/losing VIA sweeps?

Uhhh No!

Another .500 season in the books I do not find that funny

gagne21
04-14-2008, 11:03 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eL_R5wL0ADY
ahh, the memories.

secol
04-14-2008, 02:00 PM
well they don't have to be .500.....just if they win any games it'll be via a series sweep and if they lost any, it'll be getting swept in a series.....

keyboard
04-14-2008, 03:15 PM
ahh, the memories.I found this under "related videos" for the World Series win video. Very strange.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2xEOF41XQ

b_illin
04-14-2008, 03:44 PM
I found this under "related videos" for the World Series win video. Very strange.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2xEOF41XQ

I enjoyed that...but that chick nowhere near as good as she thinks she is judging by that cocky look on her face!

keyboard
04-14-2008, 04:52 PM
I enjoyed that...but that chick nowhere near as good as she thinks she is judging by that cocky look on her face!She probably should have used a popsicle, shown off more skill sets.

secol
04-14-2008, 07:14 PM
I found this under "related videos" for the World Series win video. Very strange.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2xEOF41XQ
:lol:

keyboard
04-16-2008, 11:16 PM
I am at the game tomorrow, almost behind home plate. I'll have a couple of signs that I'll post on here later.

Farmerbob42
04-17-2008, 12:16 AM
wow.... i turned it on for extra innings but got bored quickly... and after i heard 1/13 with RISP, i turned it off

two24four
04-17-2008, 12:18 PM
Sucked they has to use Burnett so late in the game, they said he threw on Tuesday as well, so I wonder what this means for his start on Friday vs DET, I know he only threw 24 pitches, but if there is one pitcher you dont want mess around with it's A.J.

keyboard
04-17-2008, 01:43 PM
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8548/posterza3.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=posterza3.jpg)

two24four
04-17-2008, 04:27 PM
They put Wolfe on the DL today and called up David Purcey who has had an awesome start to his season down in AAA this season, they say if Purcey does not come out of the Pen tonight he will start in place if Burnett tomorrow night.

Farmerbob42
04-19-2008, 01:31 AM
purcey looked ok for his first start. What happened to accardo, wow.

Hawkeye
04-19-2008, 10:13 AM
purcey looked ok for his first start. What happened to accardo, wow.

I wouldn't say he looked ok... 7 walks through 4 1/3 innings isn't ok. Thats why they took him out early, or they would've tried at least to get him through 5 and get him a win

keyboard
04-19-2008, 03:48 PM
purcey looked ok for his first start. What happened to accardo, wow.He's not throwing his splitter anymore.

phaneuf6
04-20-2008, 10:04 AM
Uh oh. Trouble with Frank Thomas. Was reading in the Star this morning how he's absolutely livid about being benched.

keys2aFranchise
04-20-2008, 10:28 AM
Uh oh. Trouble with Frank Thomas. Was reading in the Star this morning how he's absolutely livid about being benched.

looks like they released him this morning.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=234740&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

phaneuf6
04-20-2008, 10:55 AM
looks like they released him this morning.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=234740&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main
Wow. I did NOT see that coming. Benching him is one thing but letting him go altogether? Wowwwwww

moans
04-20-2008, 11:19 AM
wow that was a shock. BARRRY, BARRRY, BARRRY. even though I hate Bonds, he would help the struggling offense immensely.

Roy Hinske
04-20-2008, 11:42 AM
I don't understand why they would just outright release him. Someone will pick him up and he will come back to haunt us. I guess the Jays think they have enough power without him.:wtf:

boredguy
04-20-2008, 01:28 PM
If the Jays sign Bonds i won't watch another Jays game and won't be buying any tickets.

keyboard
04-20-2008, 03:41 PM
Wow. I did NOT see that coming. Benching him is one thing but letting him go altogether? WowwwwwwAgreed. I didn't like him but this is surprising.

b_illin
04-20-2008, 03:50 PM
Nobody would trade for Thomas with that option year kicking in with another 304AB's. By releasing him, do they eat his salary?

PS: I bet there is more to this than him sulking over reduced playing time - they obviously didn't value him much in the clubhouse and I wonder if he was a distraction and they decided to let him go before things got ugly like when he was with the ChiSox

Roy Hinske
04-20-2008, 04:33 PM
They have to eat his salary but miss the at bats bonus. I agree there has to be more to the story. Likely from the clubhouse.

Farmerbob42
04-20-2008, 05:03 PM
potentially stoped things before another hilenbrand incident... maybe.. *shurg

that carlson guy has been a nice surprise.

keyboard
04-20-2008, 05:56 PM
potentially stoped things before another hilenbrand incident... maybe.. *shurg

that carlson guy has been a nice surprise.Yeah, I am thinking the same thing. Isn't he known for having a bad attitude?

Lucca Brazzi
04-20-2008, 09:29 PM
I am surprised that they cut the cord here. He was one of the few sources of power and RBI that the Jays could count on last season. He put up decent numbers, and he will likely be in the Hall of Fame at some point. True, he made his feelings known about the benching, accusing management of trying to sabotage his option year trigger, but still. To just release the guy seems a bit rash.

Farmerbob42
04-21-2008, 09:47 AM
they have all the power they need in eckstein :D :blah: :scared: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :hic:

keyboard
04-21-2008, 12:43 PM
The Jays have never really showed tolerance for disrespect, with Hillenbrand and Lilly being classic examples. You can't call out your organization when you're batting under .200 as the DH.

keyboard
04-21-2008, 01:40 PM
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/david_bastl/2008/04/20/bring_on_barry/

phaneuf6
04-21-2008, 03:52 PM
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/david_bastl/2008/04/20/bring_on_barry/
I can't say I would agree if they brought him in but its hard to argue with his career numbers.

b_illin
04-21-2008, 09:11 PM
I'm strangely kinda for singing Barry as long as his contract is not ridiculous and only for this year. Why not sign him and take a real run - it'll either be a roaring success or a(nother) poor signing...roll the dice baby!

keyboard
04-22-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm strangely kinda for singing Barry as long as his contract is not ridiculous and only for this year. Why not sign him and take a real run - it'll either be a roaring success or a(nother) poor signing...roll the dice baby!I agree. It's not like the Jays can sell any less tickets. Plus, why not add Bonds to the list of Clemens and Canseco as all-star steroid users? I'd buy a Bonds Blue Jays jersey in a heartbeat.

keys2aFranchise
04-22-2008, 10:04 AM
I am not planning on going to any games this year- but if they sign Barry I would make the drive.


Frank Thomas had baggage when they signed him also- not quite the same, but he wasn't exactly considered one of the 'good guys' in baseball.

keyboard
04-22-2008, 01:02 PM
I keep hearing about people saying signing Bonds would discourage long time fans of the Jays to stop going. Really? How could any real baseball fan pass up the chance to see one of the greatest hitters of all time play for their team? Shouldn't they stop going to the games now because of Zaun? Hypocrites.

Roy Hinske
04-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Bonds sucks. He's done.

two24four
04-22-2008, 03:32 PM
I hope the Jays dont play the Rays in the next 3 games like they do most other times vs them, if they do they will be 10-13 by Friday's game in KC, they always seem to have probs vs the Rays for some reason, here's hoping for better luck this week.

keyboard
04-23-2008, 12:59 PM
I hope the Jays dont play the Rays in the next 3 games like they do most other times vs them, if they do they will be 10-13 by Friday's game in KC, they always seem to have probs vs the Rays for some reason, here's hoping for better luck this week.Well, Inglett clearly looked uncomfortable in the outfield making two costly errors in judgment. I would expect that to change. Overbay also looked a little confused last night.

b_illin
04-24-2008, 12:02 PM
Fuck, it pisses me off that we are paying Thomas to play for the A's....I still support the move, but that sucks balls.

two24four
04-24-2008, 12:48 PM
Watch, now he will put up numbers like he did in '06 with the A's.

keys2aFranchise
04-25-2008, 07:19 AM
I don't care if he jacks 40 and drives in 130 the rest of the way for the A's- getting rid of him was the best things they Jays could do- the risk of that option was just not worth it.

two24four
04-25-2008, 08:30 AM
I know it's early still, but the Jays need to do something and fast, this team cant keep losing 3 in row to teams like the Rays, offence sucks the last little while, just like I said above, 10-13 now heading into KC this weekend.

keyboard
04-25-2008, 08:37 AM
Watch, now he will put up numbers like he did in '06 with the A's.I doubt it. He's done. In an 11 run game last night he didn't even get a hit.


I don't care if he jacks 40 and drives in 130 the rest of the way for the A's- getting rid of him was the best things they Jays could do- the risk of that option was just not worth it.Agreed.


I know it's early still, but the Jays need to do something and fast, this team cant keep losing 3 in row to teams like the Rays, offence sucks the last little while, just like I said above, 10-13 now heading into KC this weekend.Rolen's return will help a lot, as we know. Plus, that nonsense with Rios getting tossed early last night didn't help Toronto's struggling offense. I've seen worse reactions on a strike out in videogame cinematics than what Rios did.

two24four
04-25-2008, 08:46 AM
Rolen's return will help a lot, as we know. Plus, that nonsense with Rios getting tossed early last night didn't help Toronto's struggling offense. I've seen worse reactions on a strike out in videogame cinematics than what Rios did.

Yeah that was bull shit for sure, he did not even look at the ump when he threw his bat, I think he was just mad at himself more then anything for going around.

Jays need to get some more wins here soon, and fast, this is always what happens it seems, fall back in April and early May only to make up for it the rest of the season.

keys2aFranchise
04-25-2008, 08:56 AM
Yeah that was bull shit for sure, he did not even look at the ump when he threw his bat, I think he was just mad at himself more then anything for going around.



that was horse shit. Umps needs to realize the fans aren't there to see them- Rios didn't do anything to deserve being thrown out. I doubt that ump would have tossed Jeter in Yankee Stadium for the same thing

Hawkeye
04-25-2008, 09:41 PM
Great... now David ''PeeWee'' Eckstein throws the game away with 2 costly errors..... nice :rolleyes:

two24four
04-25-2008, 09:55 PM
I really think it might be time to fire Gibby, they need to do something.

Bring back Cito !!!! :D

keyboard
04-25-2008, 10:51 PM
When we get hitting and leads we get shitty fielding or pitching. This is a season of bad timing.

b_illin
04-26-2008, 12:42 PM
I really think it might be time to fire Gibby, they need to do something.

Bring back Cito !!!! :D

I'm totally in favour of trading (edit: oops, firing) Gibby...the dude is a laid-back country bumpkin - this team needs a screamer in my opinion to get them fired up! (so not Cito...although I do like him)

keyboard
04-26-2008, 01:01 PM
I'm totally in favour of trading Gibby...the dude is a laid-back country bumpkin - this team needs a screamer in my opinion to get them fired up! (so not Cito...although I do like him)No one on the coaching staff is really that style though. It would make sense to see a GM change before a manager change, so that the new manager could bring in his people.

keyboard
04-26-2008, 09:22 PM
Sigh, this is getting hard to watch.

two24four
04-27-2008, 12:18 PM
No one on the coaching staff is really that style though. It would make sense to see a GM change before a manager change, so that the new manager could bring in his people.

I agree, it might be time, this is the 7th year of J.P.'s 5 year plan :rolleyes:

phaneuf6
04-27-2008, 04:25 PM
Rolen gettin er done.

We NEED a sweep against the BoSox.

keyboard
04-27-2008, 06:08 PM
I agree, it might be time, this is the 7th year of J.P.'s 5 year plan :rolleyes:I don't think anyone should hold him to that "5 year plan", one which never said it would bring a championship to the city. It was one to improve the team and I don't think anyone will argue that the team hasn't improved with good signings and growth in the young players. With all the Gibbons and JP hating, no one seems to remember we fired the hitting coach last year for a similar issue, but this season the hitting coach has avoided all criticism. My guess would be because it was someone JP brought in.

Anyway, tonight's game was a good win for morale's sake, but they still went 1 for 7 with RISP. A lineup shake up is a good start (Overbay at the top is a move they've needed to make for a while).

boredguy
04-27-2008, 08:18 PM
Didn't watch the game and we know Yahoo has problems so i'm asking here. The boxscore showed that B.J. Ryan came out in the 8th, and then some guy named Carlson came out in the 9th for the save. Anyone know why?

phaneuf6
04-27-2008, 08:35 PM
Didn't watch the game and we know Yahoo has problems so i'm asking here. The boxscore showed that B.J. Ryan came out in the 8th, and then some guy named Carlson came out in the 9th for the save. Anyone know why?
Carlson has been lights out for the most part this year. BJ has been a little sketchy and Accardo has fallen apart lately. That's my analysis.

keyboard
04-27-2008, 09:02 PM
Carlson has been lights out for the most part this year. BJ has been a little sketchy and Accardo has fallen apart lately. That's my analysis.Carlson has been very effective. Ryan pitched the 8th in a 1 run game. The top of the 9th saw the Jays put up a couple more runs and there was no reason to leave Ryan in there (it's safe to assume he would have finished the game). Why Accardo didn't come in I'm not sure, my guess is because Carlson is a left-handed and Accardo has struggled (8.00 ERA).

two24four
04-27-2008, 11:31 PM
Carlson is awesome, like Darren Fletcher said today he's like a mini B.J. Ryan, he's left handed and throw's pretty much the same way, he's a great guy to have around, and like someone said, he has been pretty much lights out so far this season, dont want to over work Ryan to much right now.

Good news is even though the Jays lost 6 in row we are only just 3.5 games back of 1st in the East, it could be a hell of alot worse, taking at least 2 games in Boston this week would be huge.

b_illin
04-28-2008, 10:14 AM
I agree, it might be time, this is the 7th year of J.P.'s 5 year plan :rolleyes:

I actually chatted with one of the Rotowire guys about this earlier in the week after I emailed him. Ricciardi is a tool and needs to go...they both do. I know Paul Beeston from playing hockey as a kid and my dad was at a party he threw on Saturday and I told my old man to tell him to come back as the GM, Ricciardi sucks...apparently he found it super amusing and burst into laughter. I wish he was the GM again....

two24four
04-29-2008, 08:51 PM
Wow what a joke this team is right now, Halladay for the 4th time this season already pitches a CG and they cant win cause they can only get 2 hits them self's, this team can not hit it seems this season.

Halladay is 1-3 in his CG so far this season, sad just sad, what a waste of an awesome pitcher, and he was some pissed when he walked off the field tonight, which he should be, I hope he just lays right into the rest of them behide closed doors.

We are 1st place in the East right now if they win those 4 games that Halladay has gone the entire game.

phaneuf6
04-29-2008, 09:03 PM
Wow what a joke this team is right now, Halladay for the 4th time this season already pitches a CG and they cant win cause they can only get 2 hits them self's, this team can not hit it seems this season.

Halladay is 1-3 in his CG so far this season, sad just sad, what a waste of an awesome pitcher, and he was some pissed when he walked off the field tonight, which he should be, I hope he just lays right into the rest of them behide closed doors.

We are 1st place in the East right now if they win those 4 games that Halladay has gone the entire game.

Yeah I'm so rattled at the Jays right now. I really thought this could be their year and things seem to be falling apart already.

b_illin
04-30-2008, 02:20 PM
Fire JP And Gibby..it's time

Hawkeye
04-30-2008, 02:56 PM
Yeah I'm so rattled at the Jays right now. I really thought this could be their year and things seem to be falling apart already.

They say its their year every year and its always the same result. I come in every year with ZERO expectations. They always underachieve...

keyboard
04-30-2008, 04:45 PM
Calm down, wankers. It's still early. I just went out and bought a jersey and I'll see the real Jay fans on this board on Sunday (Aaron Hill bobblehead day) and Friday the 9th (Stairs autograph session). Go Jays Go.

keyboard
04-30-2008, 08:59 PM
Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 0 outs, top of the lineup, and all we get is a sac fly? Fucking embarrassing.

b_illin
04-30-2008, 10:30 PM
Calm down, wankers. It's still early. I just went out and bought a jersey and I'll see the real Jay fans on this board on Sunday (Aaron Hill bobblehead day) and Friday the 9th (Stairs autograph session). Go Jays Go.

Nobodies flipping out, but Ricciardi did fuckall playing small(read:cheap)ball, then he got the go ahead to spend a lot of money....and he fucks it up. Gibson gives me no reason to be confident in him as a manager. He seems so nonchalant and lackadaisical - let's see some fire other than getting in fights with your players! Ricciardi might survive if they turn things around, but good ol' Gibby needs to go.

two24four
04-30-2008, 11:27 PM
Gibby sucks, he does nothing good for this team what so ever, and he cant run a pitching staff to save his life, this team needs some kind of change and fast.

keyboard
05-01-2008, 04:43 PM
Nobodies flipping out, but Ricciardi did fuckall playing small(read:cheap)ball, then he got the go ahead to spend a lot of money....and he fucks it up. Gibson gives me no reason to be confident in him as a manager. He seems so nonchalant and lackadaisical - let's see some fire other than getting in fights with your players! Ricciardi might survive if they turn things around, but good ol' Gibby needs to go.What do JP and Gibbons have to do with hitting? Really, let's be realistic here. Here are the RISP averages from the last three seasons (all under the management of that complete "hack" Gibbons who can't motivate anyone):
Hill: .321, .273, .272
Wells: .278, .343, .270
Rios: .283, .366, .271

As you can see, Gibbons isn't the issue. And attacking JP? That makes even less sense. He's made moves and stuck to them, not really sure what move he made that everyone is so up in arms about. He's been here a while but remember he built this team from the complete garbage it was (that takes time) and then injuries plagued as for recent seasons. This season it's just a matter of getting guys to hit, how can JP possibly rectify that situation one month into the season? This is why I think everyone needs to calm down. Let's see how this club does next month before we call out for the heads of its leaders.


Gibby sucks, he does nothing good for this team what so ever, and he cant run a pitching staff to save his life, this team needs some kind of change and fast.I don't think a sudden/drastic change will make a difference. Rolen coming back was a change, was it not? Changing the lineup was a change, with it not? Have either of those made a difference? No. And even if they made a change, what change are you implying? Firing someone or picking up an FA (I hear Sosa is available)? The fact is these hitters aren't hitting, plain and simple. Firing coaches and GMs doesn't change the fact no one (except Rolen, who is amazing) can hit. We need to wait it out and keep the faith, this team is so much better than it's showing, things will change.

Any manager willing to punch a douche bag in the face and any GM willing to fire a douche bag on the spot deserves more respect than what you guys are giving.

b_illin
05-01-2008, 08:01 PM
What do JP and Gibbons have to do with hitting? Really, let's be realistic here. Here are the RISP averages from the last three seasons (all under the management of that complete "hack" Gibbons who can't motivate anyone):
Hill: .321, .273, .272
Wells: .278, .343, .270
Rios: .283, .366, .271

As you can see, Gibbons isn't the issue. And attacking JP? That makes even less sense. He's made moves and stuck to them, not really sure what move he made that everyone is so up in arms about. He's been here a while but remember he built this team from the complete garbage it was (that takes time) and then injuries plagued as for recent seasons. This season it's just a matter of getting guys to hit, how can JP possibly rectify that situation one month into the season? This is why I think everyone needs to calm down. Let's see how this club does next month before we call out for the heads of its leaders.

I don't think a sudden/drastic change will make a difference. Rolen coming back was a change, was it not? Changing the lineup was a change, with it not? Have either of those made a difference? No. And even if they made a change, what change are you implying? Firing someone or picking up an FA (I hear Sosa is available)? The fact is these hitters aren't hitting, plain and simple. Firing coaches and GMs doesn't change the fact no one (except Rolen, who is amazing) can hit. We need to wait it out and keep the faith, this team is so much better than it's showing, things will change.

Any manager willing to punch a douche bag in the face and any GM willing to fire a douche bag on the spot deserves more respect than what you guys are giving.

Gibson can be blamed for the poor hitting because I don't think he holds guys accountable....shake things up a bit!

Ricciardi has done fuckall. Most of his signings have been shit (Koskie, Thomas, etc.). His drafting has been shit (on the 7th year, there should be guys coming up) - Hill is good, but how's Russ Adams? How's Ricky Romero (it's early granted)? I know a lot of the drafting had to do with getting guys that would be easy to sign, but Ricciardi has been given a very loose leash (and in recent years, a very loose budget) and he has done nothing with it. The way he treated players who leave the club is sickening and surely sends the wrong message to rest of the league. I see no reason to keep him around after season's end unless the team really goes on a tear. I see no reason to believe he is capable of doing anything that would make this team a winner, so why keep him around.

Kam, you keep saying we need to calm down, but this is the same ol' shit v7, so no, I am sick of cutting them slack!

So, Gibby needs to go now and JP has the rest of the year to pack his things unless there is a turn-around.

PS: I honestly don't think Gibson brings much to the table as a Manager. I'd be willing to bet that the players you mentioned would have better stats with a different manager....Gibby was in the right place at the right time on a team with solid batters...he wasn't the one tha tmade them better...or so I think.

keyboard
05-02-2008, 09:17 AM
Gibson can be blamed for the poor hitting because I don't think he holds guys accountable....shake things up a bit!When a guy steps out of line Gibbons [why do you keep calling him Gibson?] has shown, publicly, that he's willing to address it. How exactly do you hold players accountable if they are struggling at the plate? Benching them? I don't think benching Rios/Wells is going to help because I'm pretty sure Wells batting blind has a better chance to hit the ball than Inglett. It's a lineup of struggling hitters and they only way they snap out of it is to keep trying. Line up changes will help like Rios leading off last night and going 3-5.


Ricciardi has done fuckall. Most of his signings have been shit (Koskie, Thomas, etc.). His drafting has been shit (on the 7th year, there should be guys coming up) - Hill is good, but how's Russ Adams? How's Ricky Romero (it's early granted)? I know a lot of the drafting had to do with getting guys that would be easy to sign, but Ricciardi has been given a very loose leash (and in recent years, a very loose budget) and he has done nothing with it.JP admits Adams was a mistake, but when you look back Adams gave no indication of being such a colossal let down at the time. Also, they had to draft Romero because we had no pitching at that time, and pitchers take longer to develop (didn't help he was on the juice). Everyone thinks JP is riding Ash's picks, but it's the scouting team that is responsible for picks, not the GM. You bring up Koskie and Thomas but don't bring up Rolen, Burnett, or Accardo? And look, it's not like JP is some sort of pussy who will hold on to a player he doesn't believe in all season, he released Thomas immediately. We have to respect him for that because that was a move where he admits he made a mistake. It made him look bad but it was the right move for this team and I can't hate a guy for that.


The way he treated players who leave the club is sickening and surely sends the wrong message to rest of the league. I see no reason to keep him around after season's end unless the team really goes on a tear. I see no reason to believe he is capable of doing anything that would make this team a winner, so why keep him around.Examples?


PS: I honestly don't think Gibson brings much to the table as a Manager. I'd be willing to bet that the players you mentioned would have better stats with a different manager....Gibby was in the right place at the right time on a team with solid batters...he wasn't the one tha tmade them better...or so I think.This entire point confuses me. I don't think the manager makes players hit better because the manager can't actually influence the ability for a player to hit well. Proof would be Terry Francona before he came to Boston. He couldn't do shit all before he joined Boston. Like you said, it's easy to manage a team of hitters, but the Jays are not a team of hitters and no manager in the world is going to change that until these guys remember how to hit the ball. Also, it's very, very easy to say "fire a guy" but what options are there available to bring in? I just don't see how a bad month of hitting (a lot of it without Rolen) should cost someone a job.

b_illin
05-02-2008, 09:35 AM
No idea why I have Gibson in my head instead of Gibbons :rolleyes:

How can the Manager make hitters play better? By lighting a fire under there ass. OR give them a day or two off. OR switch their spot in order. (and we all know he can bungle the rotation/bullpen up if he wants)

Yes, Accardo for Hillenbrand was a great trade, but that is not a major trade. Rolen looks good so far, but I wouldn't mind O-Dog in TO these days with Hillat SS, but hindsights 20:20. Burnett has not been a great signing at all...yes, we got lucky and signed him the Summer before SP's got realy expensive, but the dude has done nothing to prove he is worth the $12mm he is being paid.

Yes, Ricciardi has not been a complete failure, but he has not accomplished anything either...in 7 years...how long does he get Kam?

two24four
05-02-2008, 12:24 PM
Good read on all this, and I must I say I agree.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2008/04/29/toth_bluejays_ricciardi/

b_illin
05-02-2008, 12:52 PM
That article made me realize I have to say that I also think Gibbons (for you Kam :)) is a nice guy and so on - I don't hate him or dislike him, I just don't think he should be the manager.

I also LOVED this line from the article "But if I'm J.P. Ricciardi? I own a cool collection of wrap-around shades ... and I also gas Gibby."
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

keyboard
05-02-2008, 12:57 PM
How can the Manager make hitters play better? By lighting a fire under there ass.Which means what exactly? Don't use clichés.


OR give them a day or two off.Because that's going to help us score, right? Nothing like a lethal lineup of Inglett, Stewart, Barajas, Zaun, Diaz, and McDonald to get us some wins.


OR switch their spot in order. (and we all know he can bungle the rotation/bullpen up if he wants)Which he has been doing this past week, it isn't changing anything. The only difference is Rios finally started hitting again, which all the Jays will do, when we give them time. Not by firing people.


Rolen looks good so far, but I wouldn't mind O-Dog in TO these days with Hillat SS, but hindsights 20:20.Please, please tell me you are kidding here. Do you even watch baseball or are you just a Leaf fan who needs to support a team? First off, this isn't a video game, you can't just swap Hill back into SS and expect it to work. But defense isn't even the issue with the Jays, it's hitting. How is having Hudson better than Eckstein who has a career average .285 and .350 OBP (which are very similar to Hudson's numbers)? Eckstein is basically Hudson, just not as sound defensively, but at least he actually plays the positions we're talking about. Plus, Hudson got us Glaus which got us Rolen, and Rolen is amazing.


Burnett has not been a great signing at all...yes, we got lucky and signed him the Summer before SP's got realy expensive, but the dude has done nothing to prove he is worth the $12mm he is being paid.What does luck have to do with it? That's called a good GM move, and who cares if he hasn't performed yet, would you have preferred we went out and spent big bucks on Zito and Meche? It was a great move, don't downplay it.


Yes, Ricciardi has not been a complete failure, but he has not accomplished anything either...in 7 years...how long does he get Kam?Do you honestly believe another GM could have accomplished much more? You're right, 7 years is a long time but this is the first season we get to see all the pieces working together. Let's give it some time.


Good read on all this, and I must I say I agree.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2008/04/29/toth_bluejays_ricciardi/Mike Toth should stick to writing about hockey, he's a clown. When was the last time Piniella won the World Series? That's right, I Google'd it: 1990 with Cincinnati. Leyland came in and turned the Tigers around this season by... starting them off to one of the worst starts to the season in franchise history? What kind of idiotic examples are these. All because Toth the Clown can't name GMs isn't any reason to fire Gibbons. It's just a reason for Toth to not write about baseball ever again.

b_illin
05-02-2008, 01:32 PM
I think Kam should take over JP as he apparently knows everything there is to know about baseball! Holy fuck!

secol
05-02-2008, 01:55 PM
Haha......well regardless I really think major shakeups could possibly jar the team from the doldrums they are currently mired in......

b_illin
05-02-2008, 02:19 PM
Haha......well regardless I really think major shakeups could possibly jar the team from the doldrums they are currently mired in......

I think it's safe to say most, but not all, feel this way

keyboard
05-02-2008, 03:45 PM
Haha......well regardless I really think major shakeups could possibly jar the team from the doldrums they are currently mired in......And as evidence that such a shake up is effective, you will use which examples? It's a bold claim you make, firing a manager of a team will help the team hit again, so obviously you're saying that with some proof, right? ... right?

two24four
05-02-2008, 03:46 PM
I think Kam should take over JP as he apparently knows everything there is to know about baseball! Holy fuck!

:lol::lol: thinking that myself.

two24four
05-02-2008, 04:00 PM
Firing Gibby might wake this team up, also give them a new (fresh) voice in the locker room.

I think Bob Brenly might be good for the job here, he did well in Arizona, I'm sure there are a few more good manager's out there as well.

secol
05-02-2008, 04:08 PM
well I am not going to dig around to find a ton of success stories....but one example would be the Washington Capitals this year with Boudreau?

phaneuf6
05-02-2008, 09:27 PM
well I am not going to dig around to find a ton of success stories....but one example would be the Washington Capitals this year with Boudreau?

You're on rocky ground there with the baseball-hockey comparison. :\

Nice pitching the last 4 games for the Jays...get the offence rolling again and we can get right back into this thing. Thank god for the ridiculously long season that baseball has.

secol
05-02-2008, 10:30 PM
yeah.....I realized that but I quickly glanced over a few of the current manager's careers and alot of them do well in their first season with a new team.......

keyboard
05-03-2008, 01:53 PM
I think Kam should take over JP as he apparently knows everything there is to know about baseball! Holy fuck!I'm not claiming to know the answers, I'm just saying jumping to quick solutions isn't the answer. I follow the Jays closely and I just don't see how firing anyone is a solution to a team that is struggling with RISP. No one here has even once mentioned the hitting coach, who would be the first person I would say to fire if I had to pick one.


well I am not going to dig around to find a ton of success stories....but one example would be the Washington Capitals this year with Boudreau?I knew you were going to make a hockey mention.


yeah.....I realized that but I quickly glanced over a few of the current manager's careers and alot of them do well in their first season with a new team.......Maybe you could list a few?

phaneuf6
05-03-2008, 03:13 PM
yeah.....I realized that but I quickly glanced over a few of the current manager's careers and alot of them do well in their first season with a new team.......
Based on that statement we should hire a new manager every year.

secol
05-03-2008, 03:34 PM
alright.....

Leyland- First season with FLA won World Series. First season with COL only a .444 Win%. First season with DET lost in World Series
Pinella- First season with CIN wins World Series. First season with SEA .506 Win%. First season with TB finishes seven games better than last year. First season with CHC lost in NLDS.
La Russa- First season with OAK leads team to best season in 7 years. First season with STL leads them to NLCS.
Baker- First season with CHC leads them to NLCS.
Francona- First season with BOS wins World Series
Cox- First season with TOR leads them to best season in history (at that time). First season with ATL has .412 Win%.
Torre- First season with ATL lost in NLCS. First season with STL .414 Win%. First season with NYY wins World Series.
Manuel- First season with PHI finishes with best season in 12 years.


perhaps.....but I think every 3-5 years hiring a new manager wouldn't be too dumb of a move since you are giving your team a fresh face every once in a while. But obviously if you land a hall of fame caliber manager or if you're continuously winning stay put lol

keyboard
05-03-2008, 05:51 PM
alright.....

Leyland- First season with FLA won World Series. First season with COL only a .444 Win%. First season with DET lost in World Series
Pinella- First season with CIN wins World Series. First season with SEA .506 Win%. First season with TB finishes seven games better than last year. First season with CHC lost in NLDS.
La Russa- First season with OAK leads team to best season in 7 years. First season with STL leads them to NLCS.
Baker- First season with CHC leads them to NLCS.
Francona- First season with BOS wins World Series
Cox- First season with TOR leads them to best season in history (at that time). First season with ATL has .412 Win%.
Torre- First season with ATL lost in NLCS. First season with STL .414 Win%. First season with NYY wins World Series.
Manuel- First season with PHI finishes with best season in 12 years.


perhaps.....but I think every 3-5 years hiring a new manager wouldn't be too dumb of a move since you are giving your team a fresh face every once in a while. But obviously if you land a hall of fame caliber manager or if you're continuously winning stay put lolNow out of all those examples how many managers also changed the existing batting and hitting coaches? I think you might be drawing too much of a hockey comparison.

canuckthug
05-04-2008, 07:53 PM
How come Scott Down is closing... whats up with BJ Ryan??

secol
05-04-2008, 08:04 PM
It's back-to-back thing I believe.....and it was also a one-out save?

smitty42
05-04-2008, 08:43 PM
Brought in the lefty to seal the deal.

keyboard
05-04-2008, 09:00 PM
How come Scott Down is closing... whats up with BJ Ryan??He won't pitch back to back games all season in all likelihood. The better question is what the heck is up with Accardo and his inability to throw his splitter?

two24four
05-05-2008, 09:43 PM
SWEEP !!

Just what this team needed, finally some help for the pitchers, bats kind of came alive vs the White Sox, still could wake up abit more, now the damn Rays come to town for 3, hope we dont play the same against them as always.

Also they said tonight that Ryan can now pitch on back to back night's, rough one for him tonight though before getting the save, 3 BB's.

If the starting 5 can keep pitching like this, and the bats can stay alive, this team will move up the standing fast, not a doubt in my mind that the Jays have the best pitching staff in the MLB, top to bottom.

canuckthug
05-06-2008, 01:44 AM
SWEEP !!

Just what this team needed, finally some help for the pitchers, bats kind of came alive vs the White Sox, still could wake up abit more, now the damn Rays come to town for 3, hope we dont play the same against them as always.

Also they said tonight that Ryan can now pitch on back to back night's, rough one for him tonight though before getting the save, 3 BB's.

If the starting 5 can keep pitching like this, and the bats can stay alive, this team will move up the standing fast, not a doubt in my mind that the Jays have the best pitching staff in the MLB, top to bottom.

I havent been impressed with B.J. Ryan. He has the potential and talent but closers come and go and i wonder if he is on a decline?? I was definately pumped when he signed but that seems like a long time ago. I just hope he can stay injury free this season and be the 3 up 3 down, throw the heater type of guy that the jays payed for.

I think the Jays have had great pitching in the works for 2 years now --- Losing Lilly to the Cubs hurt but keeping Towers hurt even more. Glad to see Towers out of the mix and definately good to see the rotation healthy. Halladay, Burnett, Marcum, McGowan and Litsch are competing no doubt. Dont know much about Litsch though??

I dont know why you said, "Finally some help for the pitchers"..?? huh.. They scored 1 bloody run yesterday. They only scored 16 runs in the last 7 games. I wouldnt say the Jays bats are coming alive just yet. Not even close. I need to see some 8-3, or 11-5 type wins with some 5 run innings before i make a claim like that. Hits are hits which are nice but this team needs to hit with RISP and the Jays are near the bottom in that very important category. And the Jays almost have a league worst slugging percentage which doesnt help either.

b_illin
05-06-2008, 11:41 AM
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Baseball/article/421789


Richard Griffin (http://www.thestar.com/opinion/columnists/94649)
It seems that the Jays' long-range planning has once again become shortsighted.
Yesterday's questionable personnel move was the knee-jerk reaction that sent 24-year-old Adam Lind to warm the bench for now and the foreseeable future, a mere 10 days after being named starting left fielder. It appears to be another chapter in the Jays' impatient history of, "What have you done for me yesterday?" And it's not even a matter of how well his replacement Shannon Stewart plays in his stead.
Lind was promoted to play left, the same week Frank Thomas was released, with Matt Stairs and Stewart to platoon at DH. A lefthanded-hitting prospect, Lind posted a .365 average at Triple-A Syracuse with 16 RBIs in 18 games and was deemed ready for primetime. But 19 failed at-bats later, he's out and Stewart is in as the everyday guy in left batting second in the order. Patience?
"We have to think about putting the best team out there," manager John Gibbons said, matter-of-factly. "He's just not getting any hits right now."
It was the same impatience they demonstrated with the hurt Big Hurt before unceremoniously showing him the door after 60 at-bats. Lind is more of a diplomat than Thomas and really wants to stay around. This is the majors.
"I was just going to come up and try and contribute, no matter what the situation," Lind said of his disappointment. "Obviously if things were better, things might be different. But I just want to win. It was great to be around here."
In light of the Jays' results-oriented managerial style, Lind might possibly blame Tony Pena, Jr. for some of his dilemma. Clearly, Gibbons and his boss, GM J.P. Ricciardi, despite their initial show of support, wanted offensive results from moment one of the short-lived Lind Era. It seems for some players it's not a marathon, it's a sprint.
Ah, Pena. When Lind joined the Jays, he had a chance to make a strong first impression. Trailing 2-1 in the eighth, he slashed a sure two-run single towards the hole at shortstop. Pena made an acrobatic Johnny-Mac-like stop and throw to nip him at first. If the Jays had beaten the Royals on that hit, Lind might still be a starter.
"Defence here is a little bit better than defence at Triple A," Lind shrugged. "I'm just going to keep working, keep grinding and eventually hits will come."
Maybe. But the issue here lies not strictly with the Jays' decision to bench Lind. There is no question he was struggling – even in BP against soft-tossing lefty Jesus Figueroa. But the club's forte is supposed to be in the area of player evaluation and that group said Lind was ready to help.
More than that, the real issue lies with the Jays' recurring inability to stick with decisions regarding players for any length of time. In that light, how can Ricciardi be expected to plot a successful five-year plan when he doesn't have confidence enough in a decision to stick with his own man in left field more than 10 days?
Indecision? Consider that on Nov. 2, the Jays signed Stairs to play in left. In December, they offered Reed Johnson arbitration to platoon in left. In February, they signed Stewart to battle for a platoon spot in left. In March Johnson was released. In April, Thomas was released. Stairs entered a DH platoon with Stewart and Lind was promoted. And then came yesterday. All we can say is stay tuned.
"I don't feel a whole lot of pressure, especially with the way we're swinging the bats," Lind said. "Our lineup's so potent and our pitching staff's so good. As long as we play good defence, we don't need a whole lot of runs."
Heading into last night, the Jays' "potent" offence had not scored more than five runs in a game since April 15. Thank God for the Jays' shut-down pitching.

two24four
05-06-2008, 11:53 AM
I heard yesterday on one of the sports shows, now that the Jays have such a great picthing staff, and the fact that the offence has not been there yet this year, they might try and trade a young pitcher for one of Adam Dunn from the Reds, or even Josh Hamilton from Texas, I guess both teams are looking for some young picthers, I just hope that young picther we trade ( if we do) is not one of McGowan, Marcum or Litsch, maybe someone from AAA, maybe Litsch for the right offer, deff not the other two though.


Another guy who might be on the market is Pat Burrell from the Philly who is off to a great start this season, and is a UFA at seasons end, Philly has said they prob wont re-sign him.

b_illin
05-06-2008, 12:04 PM
I heard yesterday on one of the sports shows, now that the Jays have such a great picthing staff, and the fact that the offence has not been there yet this year, they might try and trade a young pitcher for one of Adam Dunn from the Reds, or even Josh Hamilton from Texas, I guess both teams are looking for some young picthers, I just hope that young picther we trade ( if we do) is not one of McGowan, Marcum or Litsch, maybe someone from AAA, maybe Litsch for the right offer, deff not the other two though.


Another guy who might be on the market is Pat Burrell from the Philly who is off to a great start this season, and is a UFA at seasons end, Philly has said they prob wont re-sign him.

I'd throw Bay in there as well...

keyboard
05-06-2008, 02:47 PM
I'd throw Bay in there as well...Bay is overrated. He played above his head a few seasons ago and won't ever live up to the expectations.

As for the Jays, it was great being there for the sweep. Pathetic crowd, per usual. We were all over Carlos Quentin (who bites his nails) and yes, we take credit for his 0-4 performance.

Thank God they finally put Eckstein 9th and brought McDonald in at the end (even if he didn't make a play). Seems like this team is finally being managed to win and not based on contracts. I'm glad they benched Lind and even moreso that they released Thomas. Lind will be given a chance, everyone knows it, so being benched here and there isn't going to hurt his confidence. Much like the Jays early in the season, he can't get any worse.

I don't think Dunn is the answer because like Thome, he's a pure power hitter which means striking out and leaving runners on base isn't going to be solved by him. I don't think the Jays need another bat, I just think it's a matter of the already solid lineup shaking off the rust (even now). We're getting offense is random spots (Stewart triples?), so it's only a matter of time before it all clicks. It was beyond frustrating seeing LOBs at third base. Also, if any pitcher goes (from the current staff), I think it has to be Burnett. The other 4 are just too valuable to ever give up. I also don't see why CIN would want starting pitching for their young (and impressive) rotation.

Let's go Blue Jays.

phaneuf6
05-06-2008, 03:39 PM
Yeah I read Dunn, Bay, Griffey, Hamilton this morning. Of the 4 I'd like to see Hamilton here but as was already stated, not for one of our young rotation guys right now.

secol
05-06-2008, 03:51 PM
Well although Thome/Dunn might whiff alot, their OBP is still very good (.400+ I believe?)

smitty42
05-06-2008, 04:07 PM
Texas recieved Hamilton by giving up a starting pitcher, who will be a future stud. I doubt they trade Hamilton for something they had.

Ita not the time to trade. This offense will click and near the deadline some teams will be looking to dump players.

keyboard
05-06-2008, 05:07 PM
Ita not the time to trade. This offense will click and near the deadline some teams will be looking to dump players.Agreed. I also don't see Junior leaving CIN or anyone who would want to take someone that injury prone (maybe the Yankees who can afford it). This team has the pitching to carry them this season and there just isn't a cheap, viable bat available right now and that's all the Jays really need. That or someone with a lot of speed, Rios has too much pop potential to be leadoff and Overbay is too slow and McDonald can't get on base. We need a bona fide lead off man.

b_illin
05-06-2008, 05:55 PM
Agreed. I also don't see Junior leaving CIN or anyone who would want to take someone that injury prone (maybe the Yankees who can afford it). This team has the pitching to carry them this season and there just isn't a cheap, viable bat available right now and that's all the Jays really need. That or someone with a lot of speed, Rios has too much pop potential to be leadoff and Overbay is too slow and McDonald can't get on base. We need a bona fide lead off man.

Isn't that why your boy JP brought in Eckstein?!? (edit: too bad he cut Reed who is a solid leadoff man...like Stewart used to be....7 yrs ago)

phaneuf6
05-06-2008, 08:32 PM
Man Hinske is a Jay-Killer.

moans
05-06-2008, 09:57 PM
sweet I love losing two shortstops in one game.

keyboard
05-07-2008, 09:54 AM
Isn't that why your boy JP brought in Eckstein?!? (edit: too bad he cut Reed who is a solid leadoff man...like Stewart used to be....7 yrs ago)Eckstein was not brought in to steal bases, he's had 17 over the past 2 seasons, hardly a threat. Eckstein was brought in because we didn't have a shortstop, plain and simple. You cannot use McDonald everyday because he can't hit consistently and his style of play leaves him susceptible to injury. The Eckstein move wasn't a bad one, and it's not like his .600+ OPS is bad.

As for letting go of Reed, what makes you think he was a solid lead off man? He platooned and wasn't an everyday player (thus skewing his stats completely), he was never the same player after his injury, and he cost $2 million more than Stewart (who has shown he can consistently hit better than Reed). Also, Reed was not a threat to steal so it's not like he's any different than Eckstein. The difference is we needed someone at SS, whereas we had a plethora of players in the OF.


sweet I love losing two shortstops in one game.Yeah, that's rough. The worst part is how we lost the hitter "power" of Eckstein and the defensive skills of McDonald and got left with the worst of both worlds in Scutaro.

CayugaPosse
05-07-2008, 02:35 PM
Who cares if Adam Dunn strikes out alot? Honest to god that whole notion that striking out alot is bad pisses me off so bad I want to hit people.

Here's a few of the guy's who are on the first page of strikeouts last year :

Ryan Howard led the league in strikeouts..he also hit 47 HR, 136 RBI and had a .392 OBP. Adam Dunn was 3rd, he also hit 40 HR, 106 RBI and had a .386 OBP.

Grady Sizemore...BJ Upton...Carlos Pena...Chris Young...Curtis Granderson...Brad Hawpe...Alfonso Soriano...Troy Tulowitzki.

This year Alex Rios is striking out once per game so far(31 K's in 32 games).

It's all nonsense, of course these massive sluggers strike out amongst all their pounding of the baseball. The key is, does he get on base? And ya, Adam Dunn gets on base, ALOT. His career .380 OBP is frankly VERY good. Not to mention 4 straight years of 40 HR.

Adam Dunn would help the Jays lineup, ALOT.

two24four
05-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Who cares if Adam Dunn strikes out alot? Honest to god that whole notion that striking out alot is bad pisses me off so bad I want to hit people.

Here's a few of the guy's who are on the first page of strikeouts last year :

Ryan Howard led the league in strikeouts..he also hit 47 HR, 136 RBI and had a .392 OBP. Adam Dunn was 3rd, he also hit 40 HR, 106 RBI and had a .386 OBP.

Grady Sizemore...BJ Upton...Carlos Pena...Chris Young...Curtis Granderson...Brad Hawpe...Alfonso Soriano...Troy Tulowitzki.

This year Alex Rios is striking out once per game so far(31 K's in 32 games).

It's all nonsense, of course these massive sluggers strike out amongst all their pounding of the baseball. The key is, does he get on base? And ya, Adam Dunn gets on base, ALOT. His career .380 OBP is frankly VERY good. Not to mention 4 straight years of 40 HR.

Adam Dunn would help the Jays lineup, ALOT.

Agreed, I would love it if we could land a Dunn type player, he would only help this team, and like some have said, Dunn walks a ton.

b_illin
05-07-2008, 07:02 PM
Eckstein was not brought in to steal bases, he's had 17 over the past 2 seasons, hardly a threat. Eckstein was brought in because we didn't have a shortstop, plain and simple. You cannot use McDonald everyday because he can't hit consistently and his style of play leaves him susceptible to injury. The Eckstein move wasn't a bad one, and it's not like his .600+ OPS is bad.

As for letting go of Reed, what makes you think he was a solid lead off man? He platooned and wasn't an everyday player (thus skewing his stats completely), he was never the same player after his injury, and he cost $2 million more than Stewart (who has shown he can consistently hit better than Reed). Also, Reed was not a threat to steal so it's not like he's any different than Eckstein. The difference is we needed someone at SS, whereas we had a plethora of players in the OF.

Yeah, that's rough. The worst part is how we lost the hitter "power" of Eckstein and the defensive skills of McDonald and got left with the worst of both worlds in Scutaro.

Leadoff hitters are more than SB threats - they are high OPS guys...and that is why they brought in Eckstein, to be the leadoff guy getting on base all the time. He hasn't been bad by any means, but that is why he was brought in and he doesn't seem capable of producing in that spot.

Reed could run, he just rarely got the green light like most Jays before this season. He wouldn't be a huge SB threat, but I could see him swiping 15-20 bags if he had the green light. Combine that with his great OPS and the fact he gets hit all the time and he's a solid leadoff guy...not rock solid, but as good as Eckstein...or better.

While a true leadoff guy would be great, I really think a power bat is what we need....maybe not a super high K guy like Dunn, but a power bat (but don't they almost go hand in hand though?). Wells never had a power bat. Rios doesn't have a power bat. Stairs is too old to be the 'power bat' as is Rolen. We need a true masher and then this team would be scary.

two24four
05-07-2008, 09:17 PM
Marcum again looked awesome tonight, also nice to see the bats come alive in the 8th, and they got some hits with runners in scoring postion tonight, and we finally beat T-Bay, whoo hoo :D

Marcum one day will get that no hitter, he has great stuff.

keyboard
05-08-2008, 08:37 AM
Who cares if Adam Dunn strikes out alot? Honest to god that whole notion that striking out alot is bad pisses me off so bad I want to hit people.

Here's a few of the guy's who are on the first page of strikeouts last year :

Ryan Howard led the league in strikeouts..he also hit 47 HR, 136 RBI and had a .392 OBP. Adam Dunn was 3rd, he also hit 40 HR, 106 RBI and had a .386 OBP.

Grady Sizemore...BJ Upton...Carlos Pena...Chris Young...Curtis Granderson...Brad Hawpe...Alfonso Soriano...Troy Tulowitzki.

This year Alex Rios is striking out once per game so far(31 K's in 32 games).

It's all nonsense, of course these massive sluggers strike out amongst all their pounding of the baseball. The key is, does he get on base? And ya, Adam Dunn gets on base, ALOT. His career .380 OBP is frankly VERY good. Not to mention 4 straight years of 40 HR.

Adam Dunn would help the Jays lineup, ALOT.Everyone knows power hitters strike out a lot, that wasn't my point. My point was that we don't need another guy who walks a lot and hits for power while striking out a lot, we just don't. Guys like that who slump (which I forecast Dunn will) aren't what the Jays need. They need guys who gets on base and can move along on the bases by stealing because the Jays hit into a lot of double plays, so there's no point in having someone else clog up the base paths. Dunn is not the answer for this ball club.


Leadoff hitters are more than SB threats - they are high OPS guys...and that is why they brought in Eckstein, to be the leadoff guy getting on base all the time. He hasn't been bad by any means, but that is why he was brought in and he doesn't seem capable of producing in that spot.If he hasn't been bad, what's the problem? Most of the Jays' hitters have been doing horribly at what they are "brought here to do" (except Rolen).


Reed could run, he just rarely got the green light like most Jays before this season. He wouldn't be a huge SB threat, but I could see him swiping 15-20 bags if he had the green light. Combine that with his great OPS and the fact he gets hit all the time and he's a solid leadoff guy...not rock solid, but as good as Eckstein...or better.I'm not really sure what gave you this impression, that Reed can steal bases, but you're mistaken. Not getting the green light? You honestly believe if Reed could steal bases they wouldn't have let him? He can't. He's stolen 8 2 years ago, his career high. He doesn't have speed, not nearly enough to be a consistent base stealer. As for Reed's great OPS, it's only good half the time. Last year he was .513 against righties in 198 ABs. Yes, you read that right, .513. He was .913 against lefties but that was because it was in only 77 ABs. Anyone can post solid OPS numbers in only 77 ABs in ideal hitting scenarios (rightie vs. leftie). Reed was overrated in terms of skills if you look at the numbers. He also cost more than Stewart who has consistently put up better overall numbers than Reed.


While a true leadoff guy would be great, I really think a power bat is what we need....maybe not a super high K guy like Dunn, but a power bat (but don't they almost go hand in hand though?). Wells never had a power bat. Rios doesn't have a power bat. Stairs is too old to be the 'power bat' as is Rolen. We need a true masher and then this team would be scary.I don't know why you think Stairs and Rolen can't hit for power, but you're mistaken. Rios is also a power hitter, once he gets his swing timing back. You can't have a true power hitter without also accepting he's going to strike out a lot. And what good is a power hitter when opposing pitchers can just pitch around them/intentionally walk them and face the impotent offense that follows? You can walk a power hitter because they are usually slow, so they can't steal/hit and run. However, no one ever walks a speed threat because a walk is basically like handing out a double.

b_illin
05-08-2008, 12:36 PM
From the Morning juice blog (which is written by a fantasy expert);

Blue Jays 6, Rays 2 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=280507114) — Shawn Marcum, jeepers. The Jays have some great-looking pitchers, but Lloyd Moseby, Willie Upshaw and Ernie Whitt can't come out of retirement and make the offense go, and that probably will keep them far from the postseason.

moans
05-08-2008, 10:31 PM
wow what an awful loss. Down 3-0 in the bottom of the ninth, we score 3 to tie it. We shut down the Rays in the top of the tenth. Rio leads off with a triple and we can't get him across. Shannon Stewart is the worst piece of shit out there. Designate him for assignment yesterday and bring in Barry Bonds to Platoon with Lind and dh. Big Grand slam in the 13th for the Rays. Just an awful ending to an awful game.

two24four
05-08-2008, 11:59 PM
No way should Rios have not scored, lead off triple with no outs and they cant f-ing score him :mad: very, very sad, he was only 90 feet away, thought did cross my mind when it was 2 out's that maybe he should just steal home, might have been a better chance for him to score

Pitching staff on this team so far get's an A+ IMO, batters outside of Rolen and sometimes others at times, get's a D so far IMO.

I do agree about Stewart, he's ass now, his time is up, we need to get a better player for LF, and fast, I'm no Bonds fan, far from it, but I would take him on this team right about now.

keyboard
05-09-2008, 06:59 AM
wow what an awful loss. Down 3-0 in the bottom of the ninth, we score 3 to tie it. We shut down the Rays in the top of the tenth. Rio leads off with a triple and we can't get him across. Shannon Stewart is the worst piece of shit out there. Designate him for assignment yesterday and bring in Barry Bonds to Platoon with Lind and dh. Big Grand slam in the 13th for the Rays. Just an awful ending to an awful game.


I do agree about Stewart, he's ass now, his time is up, we need to get a better player for LF, and fast, I'm no Bonds fan, far from it, but I would take him on this team right about now.So let me get this straight. You'd prefer Lind, who in two stints in the Majors has not shown any ability to hit the ball and is batting an impressive .053 this season? And you would take him over Stewart, who before last night's 0/6 was 7/18 (that's .388 AVG) during the last week? So, if we base player's performances on last night we should also designate Stairs, who went 0/6, right? I mean, last night was basically the most important game of the year and we must base who plays and who doesn't on the performances during the 10th inning. We must!

Hey, last time I checked it takes 3 outs to get out of an inning, right? So why are you guys all over Stewart's ass when Stairs and Barajas also struck out that same inning? Where's the "designate Stairs/Barajas" comments? Get a grip, guys.

moans
05-09-2008, 09:08 AM
you know at least they tried, what the hell was Shannon doing taking fastballs? Any big league hitter in that spot would not be taking any kind of fastball. Good for Shannon hittin .388, he still does not deserve a spot on this roster. Are you going to sit here and tell me that Scutaro is great because he has 5 hits in the last two games, because thats what it seems to be. Actually you're right, we should keep Stewart and his great .230 avg. He brings a lot to the team with his stellar defense, and his rocket for an arm. Wait, I have a better arm than he does. Like it or not, Barry Bonds is what this team needs right now.

moans
05-09-2008, 09:10 AM
I couldn't get over the fact he thought a pitch right down the MIDDLE was a ball. Lift the bat Shannon.

keyboard
05-09-2008, 09:46 AM
you know at least they tried, what the hell was Shannon doing taking fastballs? Any big league hitter in that spot would not be taking any kind of fastball. Good for Shannon hittin .388, he still does not deserve a spot on this roster. Are you going to sit here and tell me that Scutaro is great because he has 5 hits in the last two games, because thats what it seems to be. Actually you're right, we should keep Stewart and his great .230 avg. He brings a lot to the team with his stellar defense, and his rocket for an arm. Wait, I have a better arm than he does. Like it or not, Barry Bonds is what this team needs right now.So when a guy is hitting .388 and the Jays win 5 in a row no one wants him designated, he has one off day (off inning?) over the course of a decent 6-2 stretch to start May and you believe that deserves designation? Also, comparing Stewart who is a career .300 hitter to Scutaro is just silly. You could make an argument for a lot of guys to sit on the bench, I don't think Stewart is the guy to blame. Matt Stairs struck out that inning. Barajas struck out that inning. Neither of them have been playing as well as Stewart during this past winning streak so I'm not sure why he's being made the scapegoat. He hasn't made a single fielding error nor has he needed to have a rocket arm to throw anyone out, so those are trivial stats. He's been solid defensively and very good at the plate (except yesterday). Also, it's kind of idiotic of you to mention Stewart's lack of "stellar defense" and then turn around and say Barry Bonds (who hasn't trained all season and has a history of injuries and who is old) as being the solution in the same post when Bonds is an absolute nightmare in the outfield.

moans
05-09-2008, 10:23 AM
So when a guy is hitting .388 and the Jays win 5 in a row no one wants him designated, he has one off day (off inning?) over the course of a decent 6-2 stretch to start May and you believe that deserves designation? Also, comparing Stewart who is a career .300 hitter to Scutaro is just silly. You could make an argument for a lot of guys to sit on the bench, I don't think Stewart is the guy to blame. Matt Stairs struck out that inning. Barajas struck out that inning. Neither of them have been playing as well as Stewart during this past winning streak so I'm not sure why he's being made the scapegoat. He hasn't made a single fielding error nor has he needed to have a rocket arm to throw anyone out, so those are trivial stats. He's been solid defensively and very good at the plate (except yesterday). Also, it's kind of idiotic of you to mention Stewart's lack of "stellar defense" and then turn around and say Barry Bonds (who hasn't trained all season and has a history of injuries and who is old) as being the solution in the same post when Bonds is an absolute nightmare in the outfield.

You have to be kidding, please stop basing all your shit off his 5 game hitting binge where he hit .388. Take away that streak and the guy is hitting .185 that's a complete joke. The reason I'm not calling the other two out for striking out is simple - they moved the bat from their shoulders. How do you not swing at a fastball in the zone? Put a little wood on it and get it to center or left and it's a ball game. At the end of the day Shannon Stewart is nothing more than a 4th outfielder. Saying otherwise is complete homerism.

two24four
05-09-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm with moans here, at least Stairs and Barajas tried to hit the ball last night, Stairs is always swinging for the fence, as he did that at bat, and Barajas must have fouled off about 5 pitches before he went down, he was doing everthing he could to stay alive and put one into play, Stewart sat there and watched one go right down broadway, Stewart should be coming off the bench at this point in his career, I dont care how well he hit in the last few games, he wont hit like that all season.

I know they made a good move putting Inglett in to run for Overbay, I have no prob with that call, he's faster, they prob dont score that 3rd run with Overbay running, but one has to think the way Overbay has been hitting the last few games what could have happend if he was still in the game in the 10th.

keyboard
05-09-2008, 11:11 AM
You have to be kidding, please stop basing all your shit off his 5 game hitting binge where he hit .388. Take away that streak and the guy is hitting .185 that's a complete joke. The reason I'm not calling the other two out for striking out is simple - they moved the bat from their shoulders. How do you not swing at a fastball in the zone? Put a little wood on it and get it to center or left and it's a ball game. At the end of the day Shannon Stewart is nothing more than a 4th outfielder. Saying otherwise is complete homerism.So Stewart (who has swung the bat and made more contact recently than almost every other Jay) didn't swing the bat and that's your basis for insulting his hitting ability? That is so idiotic, I don't even know what to say. He was 0/5 with 2Ks, clearly the guy was having issues at the plate, I'm not sure how a contact hitter is attacked for one at bat when he is, at the end of the day, one of the better contact hitters in our lineup (compared to the other options).

If you take away the past 5 games most of the Jays' hitters are complete jokes. Plus, the past 7 games marked a change in the team's overall play, not just his. This team (including Stewart) are not as bad as the numbers from earlier in the season indicated, so to base your numbers on a team with almost non-existent offense is a bit ridiculous. They simply are not that bad. I think the Jays we've seen in May are more of what we should expect than the horrible team we saw in April.

Stewart as a fourth outfielder is completely accurate. I'd take Wells, Rios, and Stairs over him. But I wouldn't take Brad Wilkerson, Joe Inglett, Adam Lind, or even Reed Johnson over him right now. I'm not sure why calling him a 4th outfielder is supposed to be news, he was brought in to platoon.


I'm with moans here, at least Stairs and Barajas tried to hit the ball last night, Stairs is always swinging for the fence, as he did that at bat, and Barajas must have fouled off about 5 pitches before he went down, he was doing everthing he could to stay alive and put one into play, Stewart sat there and watched one go right down broadway, Stewart should be coming off the bench at this point in his career, I dont care how well he hit in the last few games, he wont hit like that all season.Stewart was batting with none out, don't forget. Also, first base was open, so the pitcher had options. You cannot (cannot) compare his at bat to that of Barajas, he was at the plate with the bases loaded and 2 outs, so the pitcher had no choice but to pitch to him. The fact he couldn't get solid contact on a single pitch and put it into play is far worse than Stewart who was simply fooled by the pitches he saw.

I am just as disappointed as the rest of you guys, watching an offense this bad fail to come up with key hits and runs, but we're not even a quarter of the way into the season. No need to write off guys who have had success over the course of their careers over a bad game.

b_illin
05-09-2008, 02:24 PM
It's not about writing anyone off a this point (that was just emotions from the loss), but everyone but Kam seems to think we need another clutch bat in this offense. My vote would be for LF, 1B or SS. (Stairs can play 1B as well, correct? I'm thinking he could platoon between 1B/LF/DH and get 3-4 games/week which I think is his sweet spot)

Bonds might be a solution, but a I mentioned a few pages ago, only if we aren't paying him $15mm or something outrageous. $10mm pro-rated at best. I know someone didn't like the idea of Bay, but I could see him doing well - he'll never be the guy everyone thought he'd be a few yrs back, but he's good (it'll come down to the asking price which will probably be too high). There are a lot of OF's in CIN as has been noted (Dunn, Griffey). I don't see why Texas would trade Hamilton, so I don't see that as a possibility. I wonder if the Rockies would trade one of Helton or Atkins with this Stewart kid nipping at their heels? Helton would be sweet - he's lost his power stroke, but he is a great hitter.

How about trying to get Johjima out of SEA as this Clement kid is already up - maybe SEA would like a platoon of Zaun & Clement. It'd take more to get that done and Johjima would not be the solution to what ails this team, but he'd be a solid C for a couple more years until we can develop one.

Anybody have any suggestions on players to target?

keyboard
05-09-2008, 02:33 PM
The Toronto Blue Jays hope to announce a deal Friday aimed at improving their offence against left-handed pitching.Their target appears to be Brad Wilkerson, an outfielder recently cut by the Seattle Mariners. Wilkerson is a left-handed batter who has hit better against left-handers than right-handers.
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=501578

two24four
05-09-2008, 02:55 PM
They just signed Brad Wilkerson, and a made deal for Kevin Mench.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=237246&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

keyboard
05-09-2008, 03:15 PM
They just signed Brad Wilkerson, and a made deal for Kevin Mench.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=237246&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_mainJust read about both. Wilkerson will be in AAA in no time but Mench is a big signing. He's the kind of semi-power lefty hitting bat we need, willing to platoon with Stairs probably. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

two24four
05-09-2008, 03:18 PM
Says on Sportsnet that Mench is hitting 5th tonight and will be the DH, my guess is maybe Stairs will be out in LF tonight, or maybe even Wilkerson I guess, I hope they keep Stairs bat in the lineup though.

I als like the Mench signing, bring some nice power to the team.

keyboard
05-09-2008, 04:45 PM
Says on Sportsnet that Mench is hitting 5th tonight and will be the DH, my guess is maybe Stairs will be out in LF tonight, or maybe even Wilkerson I guess, I hope they keep Stairs bat in the lineup though.

I als like the Mench signing, bring some nice power to the team.I doubt we'll see a lot of Stairs in CLE, considering we're facing 3 lefties. Stewart, on the other hand, is tied with Wells as the best hitter against LHPs on the team at .333 on the season.

secol
05-09-2008, 08:21 PM
I also like the Mench signing and I also think that Wilkerson will be out of the mix pretty soon......I honestly wouldn't put Mench out in the field though, DH is all I would do for him since his fielding abilities aren't very good

Hawkeye
05-09-2008, 08:27 PM
I'm not thrilled about either one of those signings... Those guys aren't bad, but I don't think they are that much better than what we had allready. More guys who have SOME power but will hit .250 :rolleyes:

keyboard
05-09-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm not thrilled about either one of those signings... Those guys aren't bad, but I don't think they are that much better than what we had allready. More guys who have SOME power but will hit .250 :rolleyes:Against LHPs both Wilkerson and Mench are huge improvements. Depending on how long Wells is out our new acquisitions will really be put to the test.

moans
05-10-2008, 04:11 PM
Vernon out 6-8 weeks with a fractured left wrist. This will sting an awful lot. We'll see how the guys come together after this devastating injury. Also, Accardo went on the DL with forearm tightness. Jays purchased the contract of Armando Benitez. Maybe the old man can still pitch, probably not though.