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Spartan
01-27-2009, 11:41 PM
Presser at 2:00 to announce a Zetterberg extension.


Edit: Mlive is calling the deal 12 years $72 Million.

LFk
01-28-2009, 04:15 PM
Locking the guy up till he's 40?

Zetterberg is worth 6 mill a year, easily, for what he brings on both ends of the rink.

I'm really just not a fan of these long contracts. 5, 6, 7 years are decent goals for long term deals. No one has any idea if Zetterberg will be the same Zetterberg at 35. 38? 40?

Of course, if Zetts himself insisted on over a decade in contract length, there's nothing you can do. The Wings need him for the near future, he's no doubt a centerpiece of their balanced offense/defense. $6M cap hit a year even seems cheap for a guy of his caliber, as he might've gotten 7 or 8 on the open market.

However, with a good deal in terms of cap hit per year, this is an inherited risk as well.
The salary cap is not set to rise either, right? With some salary cap inflation, in 7-8 years this deal could be looking better, but with things as they look right now, the cap is probably going to stay right where it is.

chgorman
01-28-2009, 04:22 PM
Presser at 2:00 to announce a Zetterberg extension.


Edit: Mlive is calling the deal 12 years $72 Million.

SWEET!! So glad to see that Zetts will be a Wing for life! Kenny H works some magic again! Now he's just gotta figure out a way to sign Hossa to a similar deal as well as sign Franzen to a far below market value deal, lol. In Kenny I trust!

Seriously though, the length of this contract worries me a bit, given Zetts' injury history (he's no DiPi, but he's had his fair share), but the way it is structured is fantastic in terms of minimizing the cap hit and thus makes it slightly more likely that they're able to resign Hossa, Franzen, or both. Don't want to get too far ahead of myself, as Kenny will still have to work some pretty serious magic to make it happen, but this is a solid start!

LFk
01-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Hmm Zetts seems to be reasonably durable doesn't he?

He's no iron man, missing some time with something or other every season, but its stuff like broken leg, sprained wrist... seems like one and done deals.

Groin and back injuries that have more of a recurring theme to it would be bad. The bigger issue with this 12 year deal, to me, is that it contracts him through his declining days till basically his retirement, at the same 6 M cap hit.

Apparently, they did frontload the contract to appease both sides, Zett for earnings in the coming years, and minimizing cap hit overall to the team.

09-10 $7.4 Million
10-11 $7.75 Million
11-12 $7.75 Million
12-13 $7.75 Million
13-14 $7.5 Million
14-15 $7.5 Million
15-16 $7.5 Million
16-17 $7.5 Million
17-18 $7.0 Million
18-19 $3.35 Million
19-20 $1.0 Million
20-21 $1.0 Million

Kyle
01-28-2009, 04:43 PM
So by the time hes 37, hes only getting 3 million. Perfect deal, and he could very well still be a PPG player by then, if not still massively useful for his defensive play. 60 points/great defense is very much worth 3 mill a year and thats the worst I see him doing at 37.

And thats barring injuries, obviously.

LFk
01-28-2009, 05:05 PM
Kyle, the problem is that yes, he gets paid less in his later years, but his cap hit will still be the same. So while the salary works out to what his actual value might be, even at age 40 he will still be a 6 million cap hit.

I have no doubt the last 3 years of the contract were tacked on so that he could get paid his rough market value ~7.75M, and lower the overall cap hit - a move to satisfy both sides.


These are really all far off questions. My basic point from the above post is that extremely long term contracts always bring about some form of uncertainty and risk. Detroit has been a model franchise of success by making low-risk, cost effective moves. While this could turn out to just a solid move, the amount of money tied up in this contract might be a BIG problem if you get unlucky. At age 35, anything can happen to a quality hockey player. He could be just fine. He could start accumulating nagging injuries. He could decline a little. He could decline HARD.


I just personally wouldn't like to see my team take on a decade+ contract for ANYONE. Not Crosby. Not even if it was 15 years ago and you tried to tell me it was a good idea to sign on Brodeur for the next 15 years. Well it worked out didn't it? In retrospect a 15 year contract for Marty would've been gravy, but there's just too much uncertainty.

chgorman
01-29-2009, 10:38 AM
Locking the guy up till he's 40?

Zetterberg is worth 6 mill a year, easily, for what he brings on both ends of the rink.

I'm really just not a fan of these long contracts. 5, 6, 7 years are decent goals for long term deals. No one has any idea if Zetterberg will be the same Zetterberg at 35. 38? 40?

Of course, if Zetts himself insisted on over a decade in contract length, there's nothing you can do. The Wings need him for the near future, he's no doubt a centerpiece of their balanced offense/defense. $6M cap hit a year even seems cheap for a guy of his caliber, as he might've gotten 7 or 8 on the open market.

However, with a good deal in terms of cap hit per year, this is an inherited risk as well.
The salary cap is not set to rise either, right? With some salary cap inflation, in 7-8 years this deal could be looking better, but with things as they look right now, the cap is probably going to stay right where it is.

The length is the only problem I have with this deal, but it's a risk the team is willing to take, and I think it's a pretty safe risk.

Poeple are saying 'oh, well, what if he's not the same player in 6-10 yrs?' ... well, skills like Zetts has won't erode over time. His skating may erode a bit in the later years of the contact, but he'll still have a nose for the net, he'll still be a great playmaker, and he'll still be ridiculously good defensively.

The only problem I see with this deal in regards to the length is if he suffers a devastating injury, or his back woes continue to plague him, in which case they may have DiPietro-type situation their hands, which would suck, of course, but you can't assume something like that will happen. If it does, so be it, it turns out be a bad deal, one of the few Kenny has made in the past while, but to me, it's a pretty proactive move by an organization attempting to keep their next Yzerman (heart and soul player, will almost surely inherit the captaincy once Lids retires, is just hitting his prime, etc), and keep him wrapped up for years.

Plus, Zetts himself says he absolutely despises contract negotiations, and this way, he won't have to worry about it for the rest of his career. He can just go out, play his game, and not have to worry about how much he's gonna be paid. I think that kinda stuff weighs on players more than we think, some players more than others, and affects their game. Zetts may be one of those guys, and now he doesn't have to worry about it.

And yes, he insisted on a long term deal, from what I've heard.


Hmm Zetts seems to be reasonably durable doesn't he?

He's no iron man, missing some time with something or other every season, but its stuff like broken leg, sprained wrist... seems like one and done deals.

Groin and back injuries that have more of a recurring theme to it would be bad. The bigger issue with this 12 year deal, to me, is that it contracts him through his declining days till basically his retirement, at the same 6 M cap hit.

'Reasonably' durable? Yes, but he's had recurring back issues for a while now, which is the scary part. He left the game just on Tues midway through the first because of back spasms, and won't play tonight because of it. Zett's back is the biggest risk of this deal IMO.


Kyle, the problem is that yes, he gets paid less in his later years, but his cap hit will still be the same. So while the salary works out to what his actual value might be, even at age 40 he will still be a 6 million cap hit.

This is a good point. The thing is, the team won't have to deal with this for 9-10 yrs. By then, the salary landscape (and economical landscape in general) may be completely different. It could be worse than it is now, and his cap hit could be a huge roadblock for the team in terms of assembling a decent team under the cap. Or maybe the cap goes up a bunch by then, and it won't be such a problem. Or may there's no cap at all by then, who knows. I guess what i'm saying is that's way too far out to be porjecting how his salary will affect the team 10 yrs from now. I think it's a case of the team doing what they had to do to get him signed long term, and they'll cross that bridge (his 6 mill cap hit 10 yrs from now) when they come to it. By then, there will likley be an entirely new CBA in effect, which in essence makes any speculation about it now pretty much moot.

I'm not trying to write off your comments in any way LFK, as you make a good point for sure, I'm just not sure it's worth speculating on what will happen 10 yrs down the road when we don't even know yet if the cap will go up or down even as soon as next season.


I have no doubt the last 3 years of the contract were tacked on so that he could get paid his rough market value ~7.75M, and lower the overall cap hit - a move to satisfy both sides.

This is exactly what happened. It was originally going to be a 10 yr deal with a cap hit of 7 mil/season. They tacked on the extra 2 yrs at 1mil to lower the overall hit to just a tiny bit over 6 mil. Smart move IMO.


These are really all far off questions. My basic point from the above post is that extremely long term contracts always bring about some form of uncertainty and risk. Detroit has been a model franchise of success by making low-risk, cost effective moves. While this could turn out to just a solid move, the amount of money tied up in this contract might be a BIG problem if you get unlucky. At age 35, anything can happen to a quality hockey player. He could be just fine. He could start accumulating nagging injuries. He could decline a little. He could decline HARD.

I just personally wouldn't like to see my team take on a decade+ contract for ANYONE. Not Crosby. Not even if it was 15 years ago and you tried to tell me it was a good idea to sign on Brodeur for the next 15 years. Well it worked out didn't it? In retrospect a 15 year contract for Marty would've been gravy, but there's just too much uncertainty.

You've made a bunch of great points in this conversation so far LFK, you're always good for some solid insight and some quality comments, and I agree with your point about the uncertainty. There will be an inherent risk with this deal, obviously moreso than just about any other deal that's gone down recently aside from the DiPi deal. I hated the DiPi deal fro that very reason. DiPi hadn't proven much before he signed that deal, and he still hasn't. It was based entirely on potential. At least we know what Zetts is capable of, he's a proven, elite player, so there's slightly less risk here than there is with the DiPi deal. His back, and injuries in general, will be the biggest risk/concern, and that's where the uncertainty comes in, and that's what worries me about it. I would've preferred a 6 yr deal, with a promise to re-up in another 6 yrs assuming he is still playing at an elite level and his back/injuries haven't relegated him to being fringe player, or a Havlat/Gaborik type in/out of the lineup player, but Zetts wanted term, so that's what they had to give him. In a perfect world, he would signed shorter term.
________________________________

Speaking of a perfect world, I had a bit of an idea last night in regards to how Kenny could manage to keep all three of Zetts, Hossa and Franzen....

This is nothing but an idea I had, and involves assuming Lids retires after his current contract is up after next season, which is likely, but obviously not a guarantee. So anyways, here it is:

Say Kenny is able to convince Hossa and Franzen to take far below market value on a one yr contract in order to keep the core of the team together, with the promise of much larger contract once Lids retires and his salary is off the books? So they basically give Hossa and Franzen whatever they can fit under the cap for next year in one yr deals, and then once Lids' salary is off the books, THEN they offer them both the longer term deals for more $$, in exchange for those two guys taking less for a yr in order to keep the team together?

TBH, I haven't looked at the numbers, so I don't even know how much cap space they'll have going in to next season, and of course it's entirely possible that neither Hossa or Franzen will go for that sort of thing when they could get tons more $$ elsewhere, so it's probably just a pipe dream, but was just something I was thinking about last night, and wanted to see what you guys thought of it.

I don't think it's *entirely* out of the realm of possibility. It's obviously not about the $$ for Hossa, otherwise he woulda taken the big $$, long term contracts he was offered in the offseason, and he seems to really like it in DET, and fits in well. Franzen also really seems to like playing in DET with all his Swede buddies, so he may be willing to take a hit in the pocketbook for a yr in order for longer term gain going forward, and being able to stay in the organization that brought him up and that he seems to really like.

I'm likely just dreaming, but thought I'd mention it anyway. Thoughts?

LFk
01-29-2009, 03:45 PM
chgor, you have Hossa, Samuelsson, Hudler, Mccarty, Kopecky, Franzen, Cheli, and Conklin about to come off the books.

I presume Conklin's .750 can't be redirected because you'll need some sort of backup goaltender Conklin or not, for at least that much.

Hossa is obviously the big cap hit. Otherwise,
Samuelsson, Hudler, Mccarty, Kopecky, Franzen, and Cheli have a combined ~5 mill and change.
That is a lot of important peices for a little money. You have to figure Samuelsson, Hudler, and Franzen to be among the league leaders in bang for the buck (excludes rookies.. Steve Mason comes to mind).

So the question is, how do you feel about Samuelsson and Hudler? Now I don't watch many DET games, but from the statline and the general culture of the organization, i'm under the impression that guys like these are critical to the success of the team.

I don't underestimate Detroit's ability to convince players to stay for the betterment of the team. But Hudler and Samuelsson are looking to tap out about 60-70 points this season. Can you continue to convince them to take 1.1M a year for that production? Can you let one of them go in order to funnel their paycheck into Franzen?

If you want to keep all three, and still pay Hossa 7.45M which is "below market value" for that guy, you'd have to convince them to all sign on for less than 2M a year, and thats assuming Cheli retires, and you let McCarty and Kopecky walk (seems ok). Right now the team's nose is right up against the salary cap.

What do you think? Is it in the cards for Detroit to keep all three? When Lids' contract comes off the books, you can offer longer, better contracts to all these guys that's true, but you'd have to do some smooth talking to get them to stay that extra year.

MrScientist
01-29-2009, 05:33 PM
Stuart on long term IR, Downey and Leino called up. Downey playing tonight against Dallas, Leino on Saturday against the Capitals.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/01/red_wings_recall_ville_leino_a.html

eykwingnut
01-29-2009, 07:09 PM
chgor, you have Hossa, Samuelsson, Hudler, Mccarty, Kopecky, Franzen, Cheli, and Conklin about to come off the books.

I presume Conklin's .750 can't be redirected because you'll need some sort of backup goaltender Conklin or not, for at least that much.

Hossa is obviously the big cap hit. Otherwise,
Samuelsson, Hudler, Mccarty, Kopecky, Franzen, and Cheli have a combined ~5 mill and change.
That is a lot of important peices for a little money. You have to figure Samuelsson, Hudler, and Franzen to be among the league leaders in bang for the buck (excludes rookies.. Steve Mason comes to mind).

So the question is, how do you feel about Samuelsson and Hudler? Now I don't watch many DET games, but from the statline and the general culture of the organization, i'm under the impression that guys like these are critical to the success of the team.

I don't underestimate Detroit's ability to convince players to stay for the betterment of the team. But Hudler and Samuelsson are looking to tap out about 60-70 points this season. Can you continue to convince them to take 1.1M a year for that production? Can you let one of them go in order to funnel their paycheck into Franzen?

If you want to keep all three, and still pay Hossa 7.45M which is "below market value" for that guy, you'd have to convince them to all sign on for less than 2M a year, and thats assuming Cheli retires, and you let McCarty and Kopecky walk (seems ok). Right now the team's nose is right up against the salary cap.

What do you think? Is it in the cards for Detroit to keep all three? When Lids' contract comes off the books, you can offer longer, better contracts to all these guys that's true, but you'd have to do some smooth talking to get them to stay that extra year.
fuck all those guys if we can sign hossa and franzen. thats how i feel.

eykwingnut
01-29-2009, 07:09 PM
Stuart on long term IR, Downey and Leino called up. Downey playing tonight against Dallas, Leino on Saturday against the Capitals.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/01/red_wings_recall_ville_leino_a.html
hell ya, i wanna see leino!

pwf46
01-29-2009, 09:59 PM
As far as Samuelsson, I wish they could get rid of him now. He's a freakin' turnover machine, terrible shooting percentage, terrible passer. I can't wait till he's GONE!

chgorman
01-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Goddamn! I had a solid response typed out addressing most of your points, but my comp froze just as I was about to post it. What a piss off. I'll try again.


chgor, you have Hossa, Samuelsson, Hudler, Mccarty, Kopecky, Franzen, Cheli, and Conklin about to come off the books.

I presume Conklin's .750 can't be redirected because you'll need some sort of backup goaltender Conklin or not, for at least that much.

Correct. Assuming Conks leaves (which isn't necessarily guaranteed), Jimmy Howard will actually make $50 grand more than Conks. Dan Larsson is outplaying Jimmy H in Grand Rapids, so he could get the call instead. Not sure what his salary would be, likely the minimum, but even then, that would only be .25 mil savings, so not much benefit regardless of what happens to the backup situation. Any cap savings will have to come from losing some fwds/D.


Hossa is obviously the big cap hit. Otherwise,
Samuelsson, Hudler, Mccarty, Kopecky, Franzen, and Cheli have a combined ~5 mill and change.
That is a lot of important peices for a little money. You have to figure Samuelsson, Hudler, and Franzen to be among the league leaders in bang for the buck (excludes rookies.. Steve Mason comes to mind).

Sammy - great bang for the buck, but is easily replaceable by a kid from GR, likely at half the cost. He makes a nice contribution to the team for the cost, but I'd be happy to see him go if it means Abdelkader, Ritola or Helm get to take his spot at half the cost

Hudler - also great bang for the buck, and is just starting to blossom into the player the team envisioned he would be, but also not irreplaceable. Ville Leino could take his spot quite easily I feel, at a much lower cost than what Huds will likely ask for.

McCarty - he's done. He's gone. no ifs/ands/buts about it. He won't be back, unless he's with the Griffs at a miniscule salary. Aaron Downey is a much better option, and even he may not be back.

Kopecky - if he doesn't start throwing that big body of his around, and/or start contributing more offensively, he'll be gone I think. I had high hopes for him, but he doesn't hit nearly enough, and he doesn't contribute much offensively, so unless he starts doing either or both of things pretty quickly, he could be replaced by a guy like Abdelkader.

Cheli - I was a supporter at the start of the season, but I've switched gears. He's done. He can't keep up. Looks lost out there. His wily veteran tricks don't work anymore. He needs to retire.

Franzen - HUGE bang for the buck. He scores. He hits. He gives 110% at all times. He's a big body. My only concern is that he seems a little fragile. Considering the style of game he plays, this could be a problem.

So out of the 6 of those guys, Franzen is the only one they *need* to keep IMO. Every other one of 'em can be replaced at half the cost. It would suck to have to let Huds walk just as he's coming into his prime, but it may be necessary. He's so friggin small, and doesn't shoot nearly enough considering he's in the top 20 in the league in shooting %. I love the guy and what he's done form the 3rd line this season, but Leino looks to be a similar player already, and would cost much less.

Obviously if all these guys were to be replaced by a GR kid, it would be a bit of a step down in most cases, going from a seasoned vet to a rook, but I could see it working, and would save som $$ under the cap in order to resign Franzen, Hossa or both.


So the question is, how do you feel about Samuelsson and Hudler? Now I don't watch many DET games, but from the statline and the general culture of the organization, i'm under the impression that guys like these are critical to the success of the team.

They are, but as mentioned, they're not irreplaceable. Sammy can be replaced by someone from GR, at lower cost to boot. Same for Huds. In a perfect world, they'd be able to keep both AND Franzen and Hossa, but I don't see how that's possible.


I don't underestimate Detroit's ability to convince players to stay for the betterment of the team. But Hudler and Samuelsson are looking to tap out about 60-70 points this season. Can you continue to convince them to take 1.1M a year for that production? Can you let one of them go in order to funnel their paycheck into Franzen?

1st question - Unlikely, but not out of the question. They'll likely want raises, but maybe they really like the team, their teammates, the org, where the org is headed, don't want to move, and would rather stay in a winning evrionment with a great org over taking a couple mil more elsewhere. TBH, I don't see either of them settling for 1.1 mil again, but it's not inconcievable. I think Sammy would be more likely to take that type of deal over Huds, so Huds would likely have to go elsewhere if he wants more dinero, but I obviously don't know either of them ro what they want out of their hockey careers, so who knows.

2nd question - Ya know, at the start of the season, I believe I said (in this thread I think) that I would have no prob with Huds walking after this season if it meant DET could resign both Franz and Hos, but I've backed off a bit on that after seeing what he's done from the 3rd line this season (granted most of his pts come from playing on PP2). He's a shifty little bugger, scores some key goals, isn't afraid to mix it up a bit despite his lack of size (i.e. he plays a lot bigger than he actually is), but he just doesn't shoot enough. Sammy can fuck off and I wouldn't be the least bit upset, but I like to see Huds stay around if possible. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening if they're gonna make a serious effort to re-sign both Franz and Hos. So short answer to your question - let one of 'em go to funnel money to Franz? Yes, without question, send Sammy packing in a heartbeat. Let both go? I'd rather not see that happen, but if it means they can sign both Franz and Hos, and Leino can be a quality replacement, I wouldn't be too upset to see Hudler hit the road.


If you want to keep all three, and still pay Hossa 7.45M which is "below market value" for that guy, you'd have to convince them to all sign on for less than 2M a year, and thats assuming Cheli retires, and you let McCarty and Kopecky walk (seems ok). Right now the team's nose is right up against the salary cap.

What do you think? Is it in the cards for Detroit to keep all three? When Lids' contract comes off the books, you can offer longer, better contracts to all these guys that's true, but you'd have to do some smooth talking to get them to stay that extra year.

The thing is, they don't need to keep all three. They need to keep Franzen OR Hudler for sure, but don't necessarily need to keep both, and Sammy is as good as gone IMO.

I've had a chance to look at the numbers now, and here's what I'm thinking:

They're at 47mil now for next year, with cap expected to remain stable for next season (as far as I know) at roughly 57mil. So say they have 10mil to work with for next season.... two options:

Let Sammy, McCarty, Kopecky and Cheli walk, and replace them with 3 of Leino, Helm, Ritola or Abdelkader, and make Meech a full timer, taking Cheli's spot on D. For 3 of those fwds plus Meech, likely looking at roughly 2.5mil combined, so that leaves 7.5 mil to resign Hossa for 1 yr at 3.5 mil, Franzen for 1 yr at 2.25 and Huds at 1.75, then when Lids retires and his 7.5 is freed up, bump Hos up to 7.5, Franz up to 4.25 mil or so, and Huds up to 3.25 mil. Still below market value for all three, but at least it keeps the core togther.

OR

Same as above, but let Huds walk instead, freeing up extra space/money for Hos and Franz next season and future seasons once Lids retires.

This is likely all a pipe dream, relies on a lot of different variables working out as well as assuming those three guys will be willing to take a one yr hit money-wise with a sweetheart deal until Lids reties, in order to keep the nucleus of the team together, so it's HIGHLY unlikely that any of this comes to fruition, but's it's not ENTIRELY out of the question, if those three are more committed to winning than they are to making a ton of $$.

It's just fun to speculate, :lol:. TBH, I don't see anything like this happening, but I like discussing it anyway.

two24four
01-30-2009, 01:50 PM
I have said this before I know, but I would not mind seeing the Leafs try and get Hudler.

Also I wonder if the Wings wish now that they had kept Quincey over Cheli, and not lose Quincey for nothing like they did. He's looking really good in LA with 3 goals, 24 assists for 27 Pts.

LFk
01-30-2009, 02:12 PM
Like your disclaimer at the end implies, Hossa staying on at 3.5M is highly unlikely. I'm sure a below market value deal is actually reasonably likely, but i was thinking more like 6-7M which is already a discount compared to the near max contracts that teams are tossing around at him.

It really is interesting to speculate. It's just that Detroit has so many guys who are having fantastic seasons and eating up a miniscule part of the cap, and it's a challenge to see if they can keep this kind of success together if any of these guys leave for greener pastures.

It might also have a lot to do with how Detroit fares at the end of the season. Right now you figure them to be one of the cup favorites, positioned for a deep playoff run etc. Anything can happen though, it's the nature of the playoffs. What if some surprise upset does a one-and-done on Detroit? It's happened before.

If Hossa cared about winning, would he leave to sign with that team? :)
Heck, he did it to the Pens didn't he? Didn't win the cup? Well, i'll get in bed with the team that did.
Hossa in San Jose? Hossa in Boston?

Hahaha anyway, I don't think the Wings need this guy that badly. Supposing they lose him, they have the money to keep some of their middle tier players and im sure the sum of the parts that will replace Hossa's 7.45M cap hit + some nice GR call ups will do the job to keep the team elite. Maybe even better.

chgorman
01-30-2009, 02:23 PM
I have said this before I know, but I would not mind seeing the Leafs try and get Hudler.

Also I wonder if the Wings wish now that they had kept Quincey over Cheli, and not lose Quincey for nothing like they did. He's looking really good in LA with 3 goals, 24 assists for 27 Pts.

I think Huds would fit quite well on the Leafs, TBH. The only thing is he's pretty much the opposite of the type of player Burke favors.

In regards to Quincey - yes, he'd be preferrable over Cheli at this point IMO, but keep in mind with regards to his numbers... he's on one of LA's top 2 pairings, gets PP time, and is avg'ing over 20mins of icetime per gm. In DET, he'd be 3rd pairing or healthy scratch most nights. ZERO PP time, and might get 5-10mins of icetime per game MAX, so being on LA has really inflated his numbers. That said, you're right, I'd still take him over Cheli right now as the Wings 7th D.

two24four
01-30-2009, 02:36 PM
I think Huds would fit quite well on the Leafs, TBH. The only thing is he's pretty much the opposite of the type of player Burke favors.


I agree, but I'm not sure if you heard Burke on the Fan 590 on Wednesday night, he said he does not know why people think he does not like euro's, he went on to say he's the one who traded up to draft both the Sedin's, which it true, but we all know if he had to choose between Hudler and say someone like Lucic I'm guessing he picks Lucic 9 times out of 10. He also did say (not on Wednesday, before this) that he tryed to trade with MTL for Grabovski while he was still with the Ducks last year.

He also said one of his fav players in the NHL today is Selanne.

Sorry, not trying to turn this into another Leafs thread.

chgorman
01-30-2009, 04:39 PM
Should be an interesting game tomorrow! Downey was just sent down after only one game in order to call up Abdelkader. With Leino also being called up recently, and I believe both set to play tommorow, should be interesting to see how the young'uns do!

The only unfortunate part - I have to think Leino and Abdelkader are playing because Zetts won't be, although I could be wrong. either way, should be fun to see the kids go up against AO and Co. Hopefully the Wings will actually get some decent goaltending! Oz did NOT look good last night, IMO. Looked particularily bad on the 2nd and 3rd DAL goals.

P.S. - early 12:30pm start time tomorrow, for those planning to watch it.

Spartan
01-30-2009, 04:48 PM
Should be an interesting game tomorrow! Downey was just sent down after only one game in order to call up Abdelkader. With Leino also being called up recently, and I believe both set to play tommorow, should be interesting to see how the young'uns do!

The only unfortunate part - I have to think Leino and Abdelkader are playing because Zetts won't be, although I could be wrong. either way, should be fun to see the kids go up against AO and Co. Hopefully the Wings will actually get some decent goaltending! Oz did NOT look good last night, IMO. Looked particularily bad on the 2nd and 3rd DAL goals.

P.S. - early 12:30pm start time tomorrow, for those planning to watch it.97.1 just said Zetts is out for that game at least.

chgorman
01-30-2009, 04:54 PM
97.1 just said Zetts is out for that game at least.

Crappy. Oh well, hopefully the kids step up!

Thx for the info Spartan. Gonna have to fix a couple of my fantasy lineups.

chgorman
01-31-2009, 01:13 PM
Woo Hoo!!

Leino on the board already with a pretty sweet goal!!

Cornholio
01-31-2009, 01:16 PM
But what a great goal there!!! :heart:

Cornholio
01-31-2009, 01:19 PM
By the way, Abdelkader in for Holmer - what's going on there?!? :wtf:

MrScientist
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
They said he's in Detroit nursing an injury just a moment ago

two24four
01-31-2009, 03:53 PM
What's up with DET, 5 L's in a row, not something you see from them much.

LFk
01-31-2009, 04:01 PM
What's up with DET, 5 L's in a row, not something you see from them much.

They're pulling an 07-08 Ottawa Senators :p

chgorman
02-01-2009, 04:04 PM
What's up with DET, 5 L's in a row, not something you see from them much.

Nothin' to worry about. The same thing happened right around this time last year, when they were missing a bunch of their top D and lost a bunch in row, and everything turned out alright ;)

Can't legitimately blame it ALL on injuries, but they've been missing Stuart almost the whole time, and he's a big physical and defensive prescence, and Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Franzen and Lidstrom have all missed time recently during the losing streak, I believe.

That said, their penalty killing has been horrid recently, which is the biggest problem. If they can't get that fixed soon, having a 100% full, healthy lineup won't even help. Geting some decent goaltending from Oz would be nice to.

Hockeyis#1
02-02-2009, 05:30 PM
Geting some decent goaltending from Oz would be nice to.
Been saying that all year

Hasek return anyone?:lol:

Cornholio
02-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Not really ;)

By the way, Z's playing tonight, Abdelkader and Downey are sent back down, Helm recalled, Leino stays "up", but not playing tonight (he plays Saturday though, according to FSD).
And Kronwall is playing on Lidström's side, Babcock hopes him to pick up his game...

MrScientist
02-07-2009, 03:26 PM
Jeeez, the game this afternoon is like watching the first matchup of Team USA and Iceland...

chgorman
02-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Jeeez, the game this afternoon is like watching the first matchup of Team USA and Iceland...

Domination. EDM sssssuuuuucccckkkkssss.

MrScientist
02-07-2009, 04:14 PM
Lol at EDM dumping and chasing like they're up 5-0.

Kyle
02-07-2009, 04:31 PM
4 tip in goals by the wings in one period, must be an NHL record :lol:

MrScientist
02-07-2009, 04:40 PM
I can see why Stortini gets the shit kicked out of him all the time, he just got worked over by Lebda and Draper.

Also, 6-0.

Kyle
02-07-2009, 04:57 PM
Am I just the biggest fanboy ever or does it warm other wing's fans hearts every time Lidstrom scores a goal?

MrScientist
02-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Am I just the biggest fanboy ever or does it warm other wing's fans hearts every time Lidstrom scores a goal?

No, I get what you mean actually - it's like an added pleasure when he does it.

Cornholio
02-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Iceland hadn't scored three goals ;)

keyboard
02-08-2009, 02:39 PM
That Hossa backhander was dirty.

Cornholio
02-08-2009, 03:45 PM
Hardly ever seen such a weak defensive play on Hossa by Staal there...

keyboard
02-08-2009, 05:28 PM
Hardly ever seen such a weak defensive play on Hossa by Staal there...I guess he was thinking if he forced him, on the backhand, into the middle of the zone, someone would help out or he wouldn't get a good shot off.

Cornholio
02-09-2009, 05:27 PM
Well, he was wrong then!!! :cool::lol::p:D

pjm
02-10-2009, 08:49 PM
Am i reading the boxscore wrong? It looks like the wings currently have 27 shots on Rinne and the Preds... after the FIRST period! Good god.

eykwingnut
02-10-2009, 10:27 PM
Am i reading the boxscore wrong? It looks like the wings currently have 27 shots on Rinne and the Preds... after the FIRST period! Good god.
no, u read that correctly. ken and mickey said its a new red wings record for shots in the first period.

Kyle
02-10-2009, 11:38 PM
Wings offense is fucking incredible. If only our goalies could pull their heads out of their asses.

Hockeyis#1
02-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Conklin has played great in spurts though. Ozzy....not so much.

Cornholio
02-15-2009, 06:34 PM
Great second period so far!!!
3 goals, one huge save, killed a penalty, 13-4 shots

keyboard
02-15-2009, 07:14 PM
How amazing would this team be if they had competent goaltending?

Kyle
02-15-2009, 07:46 PM
Honestly..its hilarious.

keyboard
02-15-2009, 07:53 PM
And they lose in shootout. I wonder what it's like to be Osgood or Conklin after they give up 5 or 6 goals in a loss. It's so obvious you suck and are surrounded by so much talent.

Spartan
02-17-2009, 02:07 PM
Ken Holland :beer:


Hossa, Franzen likely to return next season

BY HELENE ST. JAMES • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • February 17, 2009

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland spent the past few days meeting with fellow front-office members and pro scouts in Naples, Fla., analyzing the Wings and the rest of the league, all the while keeping conversations flowing with the agents for Marian Hossa and Johan Franzen. Negotiations with Franzen have progressed steadily. "I think we're in the ballpark, but we don't have a deal done," Holland said Monday. "They know I want to talk to Ritch Winter regarding Marian Hossa. Franzen's camp hasn't moved the extra mile, and neither have I. I haven't gotten quite as far along with Hossa, and I do want to explore that and then sit down with our owner and make a decision on what to do.
"I think we have a chance to keep both players, but that does mean other players have to move." If the Wings keep Franzen and Hossa, there won't be room to re-sign players such as Mikael Samuelsson and Jiri Hudler, both of whom also are in the last year of contracts. That's why it makes sense for the Wings to explore a trade leading up to the March 4 deadline. "I don't see us being active, but we've got some names of some players that are cheaper, who make less than $1 million, who can give us depth up front and on the back end," Holland said. "It would have to be a trade, depending on the length of the contract. But we've got depth in the organization, and we're trying to keep being a legitimate contender, and that means hanging on to players and draft picks. It's important to have an influx of homegrown talent." For the Wings to acquire a forward, it would have to be someone they see contributing more than, for starters, Ville Leino and Darren Helm, both of whom have impressed since being called up from the Grand Rapids Griffins. Coach Mike Babcock said both belong in the NHL, and it's certain both will be around for the playoffs. On defense, the Wings are hoping to get a look at Griffins Jonathan Ericsson and Jakub Kindl over the coming month. "We're trying to give ourselves the best chance we can heading into the playoffs," Holland said. "I want to go into the trade deadline ready to make a move if there's one we like." Holland isn't looking for a goalie because he's confident Chris Osgood, who has backstopped the club to two Stanley Cups, will shake his slump. If not, Ty Conklin has looked focused from the start of the year.

MrScientist
02-18-2009, 09:46 PM
Hossa fight!

Kyle
02-19-2009, 04:04 AM
WOW, I didn't realize Conklin was among league leaders in GAA, and has a pretty fucking solid .915 sv%. I thought he was having a lousy year like Ossy.

Osgood literally has the single worst save % in the ENTIRE LEAGUE right now and hardly cracks top 50 in GAA. WHY THE FUCK DO WE EVER USE HIM!

I get it, Conklin is fresh, but seriously, he should have 10 games up on Ossy right now, this is fucking pitiful, we literally have arguably the single worst goaltender in the NHL starting half our games, instead of arguably a top 10 netminder in the league.

The good thing is, I have nothing but faith that Conklin WILL reach Vokoun/Turco status sometime soon in his career. For a year where everyone is attacking the Wing's lousy netminding, he is doing spectacular.

chgorman
02-19-2009, 10:14 AM
Am i reading the boxscore wrong? It looks like the wings currently have 27 shots on Rinne and the Preds... after the FIRST period! Good god.

Yeah, they did, and they 'only' ended up with 51 sog that game :lol:

After the first, I figured they'd slow down a bit but still hit 60-65 or so, but they really took it easy on 'em for the last 2 periods.


How amazing would this team be if they had competent goaltending?

They do, they just don't play him enough.


Ken Holland :beer:

Thx for posting Sparty! Hopefully it works out, although I'm still torn on this, been on the fence all year. Hossa is elite and is obviously lighting it up, I love what he's doing, but he's just one player. Both Franz and Huds are having career years, and are still getting better. I just don't know if it's worth sacrifing great depth for elite talent. I'm liking Huds more and more every day, but they're not gonna be able to keep him if they're trying for Franz AND Hossa.


Hossa fight!

Jesus, that was pitiful. Gotta give the guy props for being willing to mix it up and stand up for himself and the team, but that was fucking pitiful and dumb, he could've really hurt himself when Suter took him down, looked like he landed square on his shoulder. I mean, was it really worth risking the rest of your season by separating your shoulder just to toss a few slap-like pansy punches while the other guy holds back because he knows he's gonna destroy you if he connects with a punch?

On a completely different tangent, how about that PP last night!?!?!? Holy crap! 5 for 6, at one point they were 4 for 4 :eek:, and the scored so often, they were only on the PP for a total of 7 mins and a few seconds despite having 6 PP's. Some beautiful plays/goals too, and not just on the PP.

I'm going to the ANA gm tomorrow with my bro. Even if it's only half as entertaining as last night's game, should still be great!

two24four
02-19-2009, 01:10 PM
That was not even Hossa's 1st career NHL fight, he fought back in '06 as well.

chgorman
02-19-2009, 02:03 PM
That was not even Hossa's 1st career NHL fight, he fought back in '06 as well.

Oh yeah? I didn't know that, haha. Hopefully his first one wasn't as pitiful and embarrassing as his fight last night. He looked like a girl out there. I think the only reason Suter didn't beat the hell outta him was cause he was too busy untangling himself from Hossa's jersey (not tied down), shoulder and elbow pads, lol.

Mystical112
02-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Oh yeah? I didn't know that, haha. Hopefully his first one wasn't as pitiful and embarrassing as his fight last night. He looked like a girl out there. I think the only reason Suter didn't beat the hell outta him was cause he was too busy untangling himself from Hossa's jersey (not tied down), shoulder and elbow pads, lol.

YouTube - Marian Hossa vs Ryan Suter Feb 18, 2009


If anyone wanted to see it...
________
Zx14 vs hayabusa (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_bike_is_quicker_kawasaki_zx_-14_or_suzuki_hayabusa)

tets
02-20-2009, 02:25 AM
The Red Wings will start the 2009-10 regular season with a pair of games against the St. Louis Blues in Stockholm, Sweden, on Oct. 2-3.
Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said he agreed to open overseas mainly as a show of appreciation for the team's Swedish players.


http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/02/its_finally_official_as_the.html

MrScientist
02-20-2009, 08:04 PM
I fucking love Larry Murphy as an analyst. During the broadcast they were talking about Holland talking to Hossa about not fighting and Murph goes "Yeah Parros isn't in the lineup for Anaheim, Hossa scared him off tonight"

phaneuf6
02-20-2009, 08:32 PM
YouTube - Hossa and Tverdovsky

There's his first for you chgor. Not bad!

Kyle
02-21-2009, 05:43 PM
Starting from Dec 13th, Datsyuk has scored 49 points in 30 games and has only gone scoreless 4 times. Ridiculous.

Mystical112
02-21-2009, 05:48 PM
Starting from Dec 13th, Datsyuk has scored 49 points in 30 games and has only gone scoreless 4 times. Ridiculous.

Easily one of the best players in the league today... if not the best all around player...
________
VAPORIZERINFO.COM (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

Dubz
02-21-2009, 05:50 PM
Starting from Dec 13th, Datsyuk has scored 49 points in 30 games and has only gone scoreless 4 times. Ridiculous.

And I still cant trade him:\

Mystical112
02-21-2009, 05:56 PM
And I still cant trade him:\

media never talks about him... maybe thats why...
________
ZOLOFT SETTLEMENT UPDATE (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

Cornholio
02-23-2009, 12:38 PM
What a horrible game on saturday :(

chgorman
02-23-2009, 01:26 PM
What a horrible game on saturday :(

I didn't see the Sat gm, but I was at the Fri gm vs. ANA and the Wings looked great that game, so was pretty surprised to see the score after Saturday's game. What happened? Was Jimmy lousy? Some bad turnovers? Or a full team lousy effort (or lack thereof)?

Cornholio
02-24-2009, 04:21 PM
It wasn't Howard's fault, although maybe Ozzie or Conks had stopped one puck or another.
Nolan was simply left alone in the crease, and the Wild perfectly shut down the top lin(s).
That's the way to play against the Wings :(

chgorman
02-25-2009, 09:10 AM
It wasn't Howard's fault, although maybe Ozzie or Conks had stopped one puck or another.
Nolan was simply left alone in the crease, and the Wild perfectly shut down the top lin(s).
That's the way to play against the Wings :(

Ahh, okay, so it was more a case of a strong effort from Minny than it was a weak effort from DET? I guess that's a little easier to take, lol.

Huge game tonight! Last time SJ was at The Joe, 6-0 blowout win from the Wings. Lets hope for a similar performance tonight!

Stuart back tonight, for anybody who cares.

Cornholio
02-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Is he?
Great news!!
The game will be like 1.30 AM over here, so I'll have to get some sleep before, gotta work tomorrow ;)

MrScientist
02-25-2009, 04:21 PM
I've heard locally that Samuelsson is being shopped around, anyone else heard this?

chgorman
02-26-2009, 09:07 AM
I've heard locally that Samuelsson is being shopped around, anyone else heard this?

I haven't heard anything regarding Sammy specifically, but it's pretty obvious that he won't be back if the Wings want to have any chance of resigning Hossa and/or Franzen and/or Hudler and/or Leino (I think Leino is RFA after this season).

With the way Leino is playing, I'd much rather they keep him over Sammy. I've got no beef with Sammy (other than he seems to struggle sometimes to keep the puck in the other teams' zone when he's on the point on the PP), but Leino can provide everything Sammy provides and more, so I'd much prefer they keep any of the guys mentioned above over Sammy, if it comes down to that.
_________________________________

SJ better hope they have home ice adv in the WC when these two teams meet in the playoffs, 'cause the Wings own SJ at The Joe this year. Combined score in 2 gms in DET between these two teams... 10 - 1 in DET's favor. Granted, reg season means nothing once the playoffs roll around, but that's not a good sign for SJ if DET manages to pass them in the standings over the next mth.

MrScientist
02-26-2009, 09:35 AM
My complaint with him is 4/5 shots are 10 feet over the net.

Side note, maybe they'll deal him to St. Louis to balance out the Swede disparity before next season ;)

chgorman
02-26-2009, 10:16 AM
My complaint with him is 4/5 shots are 10 feet over the net.

Side note, maybe they'll deal him to St. Louis to balance out the Swede disparity before next season ;)

:lol: Good point! I forgot about that. If the guy managed to hit the net with even half of his shots, he'd likely lead the league in sog :lol:.

He's a solid role player for sure, fits the system well, seems comfortable no matter where he plays or who he plays with, isn't afraid to shoot (to a fault sometimes, though), is decent defensively, and seems to do a good job of getting under the other teams' skin even though he's not all that physical, which nobody else on the team really does other than Drapes/Malts, and he's a great value for what they're paying him, but if it comes down to him or one of the other guys mentioned, they gotta let him go IMO.

b_illin
02-28-2009, 02:18 PM
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/594480

chgorman
02-28-2009, 02:49 PM
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/594480

Nice post b_, thx. I didn't know the Illitches were doing this. Class act. There can't possibly be better team owners in all of pro sports.

b_illin
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Nice post b_, thx. I didn't know the Illitches were doing this. Class act. There can't possibly be better team owners in all of pro sports.

The Rooney's in PIT are better, but Ilitch is not far behind in my eyes!

keyboard
02-28-2009, 10:38 PM
What the fuck?

Hamsterkill
02-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Rough game for Detroit tonight I guess. What the hell happened? It looks as if Nashville must have scored every time Lidstrom left the ice.

phaneuf6
02-28-2009, 10:42 PM
What the fuck?
How much did you lose?

Dubz
02-28-2009, 11:22 PM
How much did you lose?
:evilgrin:

Cornholio
03-01-2009, 05:19 AM
2-1 or so...

keyboard
03-01-2009, 10:40 AM
How much did you lose?Way too much. Is it because Hossa is hurt? I mean, how can a team that good collapse that hard?

Cornholio
03-01-2009, 12:43 PM
I don't know, haven't seen the game.
Just saw some "lowlights", including the "fight" (from Weber, not sure why Lilja got 5 minutes, at least he didn't turtle)...
oh my...

chgorman
03-01-2009, 02:10 PM
What a meltdown... embarrassing... I had to stop watching after the 2nd period.

That said, they'll likely come out flying next game to make up for this embarrassment... and they're playing COL next... I'm guessing they score at least 5 next game. Just have to hope Oz can keep less than 5 out, which isn't necessarily likely at this point, lol.

edit: sry, they play STL next (Tues), not COL. COL on Wed. Could be two high scoring games, although C.Mason has been hot as hell lately, so maybe not. Hopefully the Wings burst his bubble tomorrow.

WinnipegWingnut
03-01-2009, 02:15 PM
Zetts was -3, Dats -2.... these two can't be minuses if we want to win. Lidstrom was even yes, so clearly he was about the only Wing on his game. Only one goal was a PPG, so it's not like the Wings were taking bad penalties. My guess? Either a flu bu or something has hit the team, or Nashville just had every shot go their way... 2-0 I could see... but 8-0?? Oh MY! Something was effecting the team.

chgorman
03-02-2009, 09:45 AM
Missing Hossa definitely wan't the biggest problem (although that likely had a bit to do with it). NSH had EVERY bounce go their way in the 1st, and getting out ahead so quickly really got them going and enabled to keep the momentum all game. It just wasn't the Wings' night. Nobody really looked like they were all that into it. May have had something to do with it being the 2nd gm of a B2B, but that hasn't bothered them in the past, so I don't see it has being much of a factor here. LA did play them pretty tough the night before, and they had to travel to Nashville for the game on Sat, but it's not like they were on the west coast coming of a gm against SJ and having to play ANA or another tough team the next night. Realistically, they shoulda beat both LA and NSH by significant margins.

Also, another factor could be the disallowed Kopecky goal. Rinne made a sick glove save, Kopecky thought his glove was over the line, ref called no goal. Overhead replay CLEARLY showed his glove over the line and the puck bulging the pocket of his glove at the furthest point from the goalline, but because the puck couldn't bee seen in Rinne's glove, the replay was ruled 'inconclusive', and thus the ref's original call stood. That said, it was already 4-0 by that point, so likely woudn't have made a huge difference, but you never know. A goal there could've sparked the team a bit, to at least make the score respectable. Instead, NSH goes on to score another goal soon after, and by that point, I'm guessing the team had pretty much written the game off, as nothing was going right for them, NSH was getting ALL the bounces, and Rinne was playying very well.

Definitely an unfortunate game, but I really think it'll just make them come out that much stronger for the next few games. Hopefully it serves as a bit of a wakeup call too, that relying on 3rd period comebacks isn't gonna work heading into the final stretch of the season and definitely heading into the playoffs.

Cornholio
03-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Also, another factor could be the disallowed Kopecky goal. Rinne made a sick glove save, Kopecky thought his glove was over the line, ref called no goal. Overhead replay CLEARLY showed his glove over the line and the puck bulging the pocket of his glove at the furthest point from the goalline, but because the puck couldn't bee seen in Rinne's glove, the replay was ruled 'inconclusive', and thus the ref's original call stood. That said, it was already 4-0 by that point, so likely woudn't have made a huge difference, but you never know.
I can clearly remember Danny Briere scoring a goal like that two or three years ago in Buffalo, a couple of seconds before the end of the first or second period.
The glove was behind the goal line, and they ruled it a goal, afterwards, the teams had to come back on the ice and play the last few seconds again :D

Sorry, but that kinda rule is bullshit!
OF COURSE you can't see the puck when it's in the glove, but if the rear ond of the glove is behind the line, it should be ruled a good fucking goal!!!

Nevermind, but it's still annoying!

Hamsterkill
03-02-2009, 03:32 PM
The problem is that the puck must completely cross the goal line for it to count. If it's still even barely on the red, it's not a goal. With the glove over the puck like that, you can't call it conclusive.

pwf46
03-04-2009, 10:28 PM
Sitting here watching the Wings / Avs game. When the hell is Ken Holland going to get rid of Samuelsson?? This guy is beyond horrible ! No points in last 9 games, and a constant turnover machine.

Killa_Kyle
03-05-2009, 01:33 AM
When is Hossa expected to return?

chgorman
03-05-2009, 09:23 AM
Sitting here watching the Wings / Avs game. When the hell is Ken Holland going to get rid of Samuelsson?? This guy is beyond horrible ! No points in last 9 games, and a constant turnover machine.

His contract is up at the end of this season I believe, and I highly doubt he gets resigned.


When is Hossa expected to return?

I think he's DTD right now with neck and knee soreness. I highly doubt he plays on Sat, but he could be back next wk. No definitive date given yet, that I know of.
______________________________

On a side note... Wings back on top, 1st overall! And that's despite having the worst PK in the league and some VERY shaky goaltending. Scary to think how far ahead of the rest of the league this team would be if they were clicking in all facets.

Granted SJ has 3 gms in hand and BOS has 1 gm in hand, but just let me enjoy this for now, at least until SJ and/or BOS play their next game, lol.

MrScientist
03-17-2009, 08:15 PM
Getting this one back up top...nothing like a good ol' snipe by Datsyuk to break Biron.

chgorman
03-17-2009, 08:28 PM
I had no idea PHI hadn't won in DET in 20 yrs! Granted they've probably only played in DET once in the past 4 yrs, but still.

Wings are owning this game. It so frustrating to watch this team severely outplay the other team, only to be losing. More than doubled PHI in shots, and have had 15 or so blocked (so they could be tripling PHI in shots right now).

Should be a great 3rd period, no matter what happens! I expect the Wings to come out full bore for the final 20 mins. Something's gotta give.

MrScientist
03-17-2009, 08:59 PM
Haha it gave, now 3-2 Wings.

Dubz
03-23-2009, 01:38 PM
Marian Hossa's camp is discussing chances of a long-term deal with the Red Wings. Hossa would like to remain with Detroit and says he would take a lesser salary to do so. "To be able to stay as a Red Wing, I am prepared to take less money, but a fair deal, so both sides are happy. That's what I'm looking for." - Detroit Free Press


Bastards

chgorman
03-23-2009, 03:04 PM
Bastards

:lol:

Saw that news earlier on rotoworld. Good stuff! Great news for the Wings... not so great for the rest of the league ;):lol:

(cue the inevitable 'STFU you smug a-hole' insults from non-Wings fans, ha ha)

Hopefully they can get something worked out that is fair to both sides and allows them to re-sign Franzen too in the process.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
03-24-2009, 12:57 AM
hmm sounds like the same garbage Hossa was spewing in Pittsburgh. I can see it happening b/c Detroit are contenders year in and year out -- Who in their right mind WOULDN'T wanna sign with them? But I really wouldn't get too cocky about a long term deal until the douche signs his name on the dotted line. Which I personally can't see happening b4 the playoffs end?

Speaking of which, Detroit goaltending is pretty suspect. Looks like you all will roll with Osgood though? The good thing for you guys is that Ozzy can stink up the regular season but somehow get it together and get it done in the post. Personally, I hope this weakness is exposed in the playoffs and some team out there, any team, sends Hossa and the rest of those max..... redwings home early.

All personal bias in the west aside -- god damn Calgary is kinda scary right now. I would not enjoy seeing SJ matched up against them in the first round.

Hamsterkill
03-24-2009, 02:11 AM
hmm sounds like the same garbage Hossa was spewing in Pittsburgh. I can see it happening b/c Detroit are contenders year in and year out -- Who in their right mind WOULDN'T wanna sign with them? But I really wouldn't get too cocky about a long term deal until the douche signs his name on the dotted line. Which I personally can't see happening b4 the playoffs end?

Yeah I was gonna say those words ring vaguely familiar in my head. There's still the chance he'll wait to see who wins Stanley this season and then bolt to them.

two24four
03-24-2009, 07:54 AM
They said on TSN last night during the 2nd INT that even thou Hossa has said he might be willing to take abit less to stay in DET, they still think he will be looking for around $7M a season.

chgorman
03-24-2009, 09:46 AM
hmm sounds like the same garbage Hossa was spewing in Pittsburgh. I can see it happening b/c Detroit are contenders year in and year out -- Who in their right mind WOULDN'T wanna sign with them?

Oh yeah? Hmm, I wasn't aware of that. That's unfortunate. Hopefully the end result is a little different (or the same, depending on how you look at it I guess, lol)


But I really wouldn't get too cocky about a long term deal until the douche signs his name on the dotted line. Which I personally can't see happening b4 the playoffs end?

Oh, I'm not, by any means. I'm not counting on anything happening with him until it actually happens, it's just encouraging to see him say stuff like what dubzz posted above. I obviously hope he re-signs, and the early signs based on what he said above are good, but then again, if what you said is true about him saying similar things in PIT last year, then I'm not gonna get my hopes up too high. Just gotta cross my fingers I guess.

That said, DET is in EDM tonight and Hossa's agent is based out of EDM, so an article in today's Globe&Mail about the situation suggests that some negotiating will likely be done today between Kenny H and Rich Winter (Hossa's agent). I'm not *expecting* anything concrete like a new contract to come out of it, but hopefully they can work towards something, possibly get something done b4 playoffs, or the end of the playoffs at very least, although I'm not counting on it by any means.


Speaking of which, Detroit goaltending is pretty suspect. Looks like you all will roll with Osgood though? The good thing for you guys is that Ozzy can stink up the regular season but somehow get it together and get it done in the post. Personally, I hope this weakness is exposed in the playoffs and some team out there, any team, sends Hossa and the rest of those max..... redwings home early.

Yup. Babs seems 100% content with him going into the playoffs. Can't say I'm quite as confident (not nearly so, TBH), but like you say, as crappy as he can be/has been at times during every reg season (not just this one), he tends to suprise in the playoffs more often than not. Not that he leads them to the cup every year by any means. Every Wings fan knows he laid his fair share of playoff eggs, but with the team in front of him, he doesn't have to be spectacular, just good enough, which he's perfectly capable of (as shown in last year's playoffs). That said, he's still a concern in my eyes.


All personal bias in the west aside -- god damn Calgary is kinda scary right now. I would not enjoy seeing SJ matched up against them in the first round.

Agree completely. If Kipper is on top of his game and CGY plays their hard-nosed, punishing style, they'll definitely be tough to beat in a 7 gm playoff series. History is not on their side (the announcers for last night's gm were saying that aside from '04, they haven't made it past the 1st rd since they won the cup back in '89, or something like that), so they're gonna have to get that monkey off their backs if their gonna go anywhere, but still, I'm really glad the Wings likely won't be facing 'em in the 1st rd.


They said on TSN last night during the 2nd INT that even thou Hossa has said he might be willing to take abit less to stay in DET, they still think he will be looking for around $7M a season.

That would be SICK if he's willing to sign for that! I think that's more than a fair compromise/discount on his part, for a player of his calibre. I was expecting him to want the same as what he's making this year ($7.45mill I think?), so if he's willing to sign for less than that, I think that's a great deal for the Wings!

phaneuf6
03-24-2009, 12:10 PM
That Wings and Flames game last night was great. All 3 Detroit goals were just pure talent by the individuals that scored, although you could chalk up Hudler's goal to poor defence on Phaneuf's part.

I'd be worried about the goaltending with Detroit though.. Osgood was terrible last night.

chgorman
03-24-2009, 12:43 PM
That Wings and Flames game last night was great. All 3 Detroit goals were just pure talent by the individuals that scored, although you could chalk up Hudler's goal to poor defence on Phaneuf's part.

I'd be worried about the goaltending with Detroit though.. Osgood was terrible last night.

Great game for sure! Props to CGY for pulling it out. It was starting to look like a repeat of the previous game between those two in DET, where CGY fought back from down 4-1 to win, except obviously the roles were reversed, and obviously CGY held on for the win this time, which the Wings weren't able to do in DET.

I think I'd be lying if I said most - if not all - Wings fans aren't at least a little concerned with Oz. He's just been so inconsistent all year. Last year he had a bad game here and there, but was fairly consistent for the most part, and put in a solid showing for the most part just about every night. He's been all over the map this season. He had 3 or 4 VERY solid outings in a row before last night, but just when you think he's turned the corner and is back on track, he lays an egg like last night, or the 8-0 gm a couple wknds ago, etc.

He pretty much handed CGY their first 3 goals last night. I know it's not really fair to blame the goalie in most cases, but he blew last night, and could be faulted on all 3 goals he allowed. It's not like they were lousy defensive plays in front of him, or spectacular efforts from the Flames, he just flat out stunk, shoulda easily had all 3 GA.

phaneuf6
03-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Great game for sure! Props to CGY for pulling it out. It was starting to look like a repeat of the previous game between those two in DET, where CGY fought back from down 4-1 to win, except obviously the roles were reversed, and obviously CGY held on for the win this time, which the Wings weren't able to do in DET.

I think I'd be lying if I said most - if not all - Wings fans aren't at least a little concerned with Oz. He's just been so inconsistent all year. Last year he had a bad game here and there, but was fairly consistent for the most part, and put in a solid showing for the most part just about every night. He's been all over the map this season. He had 3 or 4 VERY solid outings in a row before last night, but just when you think he's turned the corner and is back on track, he lays an egg like last night, or the 8-0 gm a couple wknds ago, etc.

He pretty much handed CGY their first 3 goals last night. I know it's not really fair to blame the goalie in most cases, but he blew last night, and could be faulted on all 3 goals he allowed. It's not like they were lousy defensive plays in front of him, or spectacular efforts from the Flames, he just flat out stunk, shoulda easily had all 3 GA.

That's what would worry me. You don't mind a goaltender giving up 3 on 14 shots when they're either great plays or poor defensive positioning in front but I think you can safely blame all 3 goals last night on Osgood. He should've caught that muffin from Phaneuf, and the 2 squeaking by on the post are just killers when you're trying to come back from being down.

tets
03-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Man, I was at the game again yesterday and Im not liking Ozzy at all for us. Ive always really liked Osgood, Ive never argued that he's an amazing goalie but he's always been reliable and got the job done for the most part. But this year he sucks......just plain sucks....right from the start of the game yesterday he was struggling to fight off shots, fumbling rebounds and got outplayed the entire game by Rinne.....Ozzy did make some nice saves but the goals he allowed are not acceptable if he wants to carry the team deep in the playoffs.....and the same exact thing has been happening all year, he gets about 20 shots and lets at least 3 of them in....and at bad times in the game......I dont know how many more chances he is going to get to gain some consistency and show hes capable of being this year's playoff goalie....Im ready to see Conklin step in and start a roll........sorry Ozzy, I love ya but I am no longer confident with you between the pipes..............and he's signed for the next 2 yrs, with no cap room if we sign hossa and franzen then who is in net for us? Howard gets his chance???

two24four
03-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Joey MacDonald looked great in DET the other night for the NYI :D;)

tets
03-30-2009, 12:48 PM
Joey MacDonald looked great in DET the other night for the NYI :D;)

Thanks for rubbing that in :freak:.....can we get him back?

two24four
03-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Yeah they really should have kept MacDonald IMO, (I thought that when they let him go) he's a very good goalie, they moved him because I guess at the time it came down to him or Howard, thing is thou if they had kepth Mac, he would be there starting goalie now, Howard is stil trying to work his way up to the NHL.

tets
03-30-2009, 01:00 PM
Its getting to to point that Howard has to come up and spend a significant amount of time with the wings to see if he's going to be their future.......plus it looks like the wings might not have an option next yr

chgorman
03-31-2009, 07:16 PM
Not sure where to put this, so I'll put it here, since I'm not aware of any Central Division (or specific member team) threads other than this one....

My random thought of the day: If the NHL playoffs started today, all 5 teams from the Central Division would be in.

Not that it excuses any of the Wings' recent performances (or lack thereof), just thought it was noteworthy. Next best division is the Atlantic, with 4 of 5 teams in if the playoffs started today. The Pacific is worst, with only one team in, granted it's arguably the best team, and granted ANA is right on the doorstep.

tets
04-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Update from Thursday's morning skate: Wings forward Johan Franzen indicated that he might be getting close to signing a long-term contract extension. The club made a formal contract offer earlier this week and is waiting for a response.
"We're still talking. We're getting closer,'' Franzen said. "They're working hard at it.''
Franzen indicated a strong desire to take less money to stay with the Wings rather than seek the most lucrative contract on the open market on July 1. If he re-signs, it'll probably be in the neighborhood of $4 million a season.
Because of tagging rules in the CBA, the Wings only have the salary cap space to sign Franzen or Marian Hossa before the end of the regular season. Hossa indicated he wasn't close to a deal, but he was still hopeful something could be worked out either before the end of the season or after the playoffs.

chgorman
04-03-2009, 08:11 AM
This is getting ridiculous. D needs to step up, and more importantly, Oz/Conks need to start playing like they deserve to be in the NHL. I'm gonna have a hard time picking them in a 1st round matchup versus just about anybody if the level of play on D, on the PK and in goal doesn't improve pretty soon.

I'm not saying they should do this, and to even mention it is probably asinine in itself, and they may not be able to anyway due to the cap, but what do you guys think about briniging up Howard or Larsson to finish out the season, give 'em a couple games just to see how they fare? Not saying they should go with one of those two to start the playoffs, but I've lost all confidence in Oz and Conks based on the way they've been playing recently, and I don't think it would hurt to see how either of those other two would fare in a couple games to close out the season. The chances of finishing first overall are slim to none now, and they're pretty much set to finish 2nd in the WC regardless of how they finish the season, so it's not like they'd be risking losing the President's Trophy or their current seeding f if they were to lose a couple more games while seeing how Jimmy H and Larsson fare...

I doubt it'll happen, it's likely not even a consideration for Babs, but I wouldn't mind seeing it. They definitely couldn't be any worse than Oz/Conks have been recently, and maybe if they bring up an youngster, it'll push Oz/Conks to get back on track, maybe put a little pressure on them.

Just an idea. Flame away if I'm completely off my rocker.

Cornholio
04-03-2009, 12:52 PM
i don't really care about offense and signing, the wings should get a real good goalie, damnit!!!

tets
04-05-2009, 01:45 PM
it never fails to amaze me, all the different ways that ozzy manages to let in goals

Cornholio
04-06-2009, 07:43 PM
I would like it better if Ozzie would amaze you in another way... ;)

eykwingnut
04-11-2009, 01:45 PM
surprised this isnt here yet...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=A2KIRywF5eBJT3MAywN7vLYF?slug=ap-redwings-franzen&prov=ap&type=lgns

Red Wings sign F Franzen to 11-year deal


DETROIT (AP)—Detroit signed forward Johan Franzen (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3722/;_ylt=AjOCUb1wXOgdPWH0P3kHpJ0mvLYF) to an 11-year deal Saturday, keeping him off the free agent market and retaining talent that helped the Red Wings win the Stanley Cup.
“His production over the past year and a half, both regular season and playoffs, has been remarkable and we feel, at 29 years old, that he is just now entering the prime of his career,” said general manager Ken Holland.
The Red Wings also kept forward Henrik Zetterberg (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2503/;_ylt=Agx6QBIrmiU9N.lVJEJp6nkmvLYF) off the market with a 12-year deal in January. They are hoping to do the same with forward Marian Hossa (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/1640/) before he becomes a free agent this summer.
The team said the deal for Franzen, known as Mule, is the second-longest in team history, behind Zetterberg’s. Terms were not disclosed.
Franzen, who is in his fourth NHL season, led Detroit with 34 goals. His 59 points trailed only Pavel Datsyuk (http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2680/;_ylt=AswT7.2rL1D7FZuAF53uirAmvLYF), Zetterberg and Hossa. After averaging 11 goals in his first two seasons, Franzen had 27 goals last year in the regular season and 13 in the playoffs to help Detroit win the Stanley Cup.

Franzen sustained a subdural hematoma that kept him out of six games of the playoffs last year. At the time, he said blood pooled between his skull and brain and took two to three weeks to be absorbed.
Franzen was a third-round pick of the Red Wings in the 2004 draft.

eykwingnut
04-11-2009, 02:18 PM
they just said in pre-game that the cap hit is less than 4 million a year! holy F*CK! GO WINGS!

secol
04-11-2009, 02:31 PM
they just said in pre-game that the cap hit is less than 4 million a year! holy F*CK! GO WINGS!
man that is cheap lol

Dubz
04-11-2009, 03:41 PM
That opens the door for a Hossa deal.

MrScientist
04-11-2009, 06:18 PM
they just said in pre-game that the cap hit is less than 4 million a year! holy F*CK! GO WINGS!

It's 3.95, so yes it's less than 4, but not much haha. Still a great deal

chgorman
04-12-2009, 10:34 AM
That opens the door for a Hossa deal.

I dunno, I still think Kenny H is gonna hafta pull some serious strings and work some real magic in order to fit Hossa into the mix. Either that or Hossa is gonna hafta take a HUGE discount, which I don't think the players association would be too happy about.

I guess it really depends on where the cap is gonna be at... what's the latest update on that? I thought it was supposed to go down... or is that after next season? It'll be tight regardless, especially if it goes down. Not including Franzen's new deal, they're already at $47 mil, and that's with only 19 players signed. Hossa, Sammy, Kopecky, McCarty, Downey, Cheli and Conks are all UFA, and Hudler and Leino are both RFA. All those guys (except Hossa) are on super small contracts, so not only will the team not save much by letting guys like Sammy, Kopecky, McCarty Downey and Cheli walk, but they guys who ARE worth keeping (Hossa, Hudler, Leino) will probably want significant raises. It's gonna be tough. If the cap stays where it's at, and they can sign Hossa long term and structure it like the Zetts and Franzen deals to have a lower cap hit, then they *might* be able to make it work, but if the cap goes down, they're gonna have a choice... gut the team of role players to sign Hossa, or keep the depth and let Hossa walk? I'm not sure we'll be able to have it both ways. If anybody can do it, I think Kenny can, but he's gonna hafta work some real magic.

That said, I like the Franzen signing. Obviously some risk involved with a deal that long, especially for a player with Franzen's injury history, but the length is what allows for a manageable cap hit, which I think is the key aspect, so I'm okay with it, as - you're right dubzz - it's a step in the right direction towards being able to re-sign Hossa, and Franzen really is just hitting his prime now, and I think he can still get better. He scores some pretty slick goals for a big guy, and seems to be productive no matter who he's with.

So, anybody know what the cap situation is gonna be for next year? I haven't really been paying attention to that stuff recently... what's the latest update? that'll likely go a long way to determining the Hossa situation.

Dubz
04-12-2009, 10:50 AM
Last I heard the cap was going up this year but the other edge of the sword (that Burkie is looking at) is it is surely gonna dip over the next couple. Which is why he is being overly careful when it comes to contracts. Maybe the wings have to let Hossa walk to keep a good core of support players intact. I think Leino will sign dirt cheap....hes another euro that has been "taken care of" for years.

chgorman
04-12-2009, 11:00 AM
Last I heard the cap was going up this year but the other edge of the sword (that Burkie is looking at) is it is surely gonna dip over the next couple. Which is why he is being overly careful when it comes to contracts. Maybe the wings have to let Hossa walk to keep a good core of support players intact. I think Leino will sign dirt cheap....hes another euro that has been "taken care of" for years.

Oh wow! Okay, I wasn't aware of that. It'll still be tight trying to get everybody signed, even if Leino signs for cheap (don't forget, other teams can offer him serious money, same with Huds), but that makes it a little more realistic for sure. For some reason I thought the cap was going down :wtf:

Doctego
04-12-2009, 12:16 PM
Last I heard the cap was going up this year but the other edge of the sword (that Burkie is looking at) is it is surely gonna dip over the next couple. Which is why he is being overly careful when it comes to contracts. Maybe the wings have to let Hossa walk to keep a good core of support players intact. I think Leino will sign dirt cheap....hes another euro that has been "taken care of" for years.

Everything that I have seen indicates staying the same or having a slight decrease for the 2009-10 season with 2010-11 being the big season where it could lower dramatically.

Dubz
04-12-2009, 01:12 PM
I havent read or seen any indications of a decrease. It does make sense considering the economy atp and you are likely correct in assuming it will decrease but.... Last I heard, which was months ago mind you, was that it would be going up. I know it revolves around revenues which last I heard were up across the board. We should know soon enough.

chgorman
04-14-2009, 10:09 AM
Does anybody know what the Wings' ACTUAL cap situation is for next year? nhlnumbers.com has them being committed to $51.25 mil in salaries for next season (http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=DET&season=0809) including the new Zetts and Franzen deals, yet letsgowings.com (a very popular fan site) has them at $47.3 mil committed to salaries for next year, including those two new deals (http://www.letsgowings.com/salarychart/).

Anybody know which is correct, or at least closer to the correct figure? If the 47.3 figure is correct, I can definitely see Kenny being able to work something out for all three of Hossa, Hudler and Leino in order to keep them all with the team (assuming the cap stays the same), however if the $51.25 mil figure is correct, that's a 4 mil difference which likely means either Huds or Hossa are forced to walk.

chgorman
04-17-2009, 08:06 AM
Quickly developing a huge mancrush on Johnny Ericsson. Anybody else think he looks like he's been in the NHL for years out there? Just seems so calm and composed out there all the time. Even in the playoffs. Seems to always make the right play. I thought he might have some first-career-playoff-game jitters and make some noticeable mistakes, but he was awesome last night!

eykwingnut
04-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Quickly developing a huge mancrush on Johnny Ericsson. Anybody else think he looks like he's been in the NHL for years out there? Just seems so calm and composed out there all the time. Even in the playoffs. Seems to always make the right play. I thought he might have some first-career-playoff-game jitters and make some noticeable mistakes, but he was awesome last night!
its not just you, the kid is amazing! he could give a few defensive pointers to rafalski IMO... he could save our season considering lilja and chelios are the alternatives...

chgorman
04-24-2009, 10:03 AM
So, who do you Wings fans wanna face next round? ANA or VAN? I'm going with ANA 'cuz Lu scares the hell outta me regardless, but especially now that he's on a roll and will have had lots of rest, but if Hiller keeps blanking SJ, I might start to think twice about that.

MrScientist
04-24-2009, 10:33 AM
I'll take Anaheim, Detroit proved to CBJ in this series that they ain't no bitch, thus nullifying any clear cut advantage the Ducks would have.

Spartan
05-21-2009, 02:23 PM
Apparently Babcock dislikes Americans. :scared:


HELENE ST. JAMES' BLOG

Roenick claims Wings' Babcock disrespects Chelios, Americans

BY HELENE ST. JAMES • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • May 21, 2009

According to Sharks forward Jeremy Roenick -- who, please remember, was eliminated from the playoffs in round one -- Wings coach Mike Babcock dislikes Americans, and Chris Chelios in particular.


That was what Roenick told Mike North & Dan Jiggetts this morning on “The Monsters in the Morning” show on Comcast Sportsnet in Chicago.
• Roenick, on why Chelios isn’t playing: “The coach just doesn’t like him for some ungodly known reason, I think he’s got a grudge against American players, but he does not like Cheli at all.”
• Roenick, on issues between Chelios and Babcock: “There is an underlying, I don’t know if it’s a hatred, because hatred is a strong word. But there is some underlying issue there that I don’t understand. You know Babcock is the coach. You have to respect him for his decisions on who he plays, and that is all well and good. Sometimes it’s just the verbal stuff that goes back and forth, from what I understand. Cheli will never complain. He is the ultimate professional. He will do whatever the team needs.”
• Roenick, on the treatment of Chelios from Babcock: “If you’d know some of the things that Babcock says to Chris Chelios, it would make your stomach churn. Just total disrespect for not even just one of the best Americans, but one of the best defensemen to ever play the game. The way he is talked to is just unacceptable. I wish I could elaborate, but that’s not proper. It’s just disrespectful.”
I asked Chelios about the comments, and he laughed and laughed.
“How does JR know anything -- is he playing?” Chelios said. “The last time I talked to JR was a few weeks ago, and it was about his charity pool party in Vegas. I don’t know what JR is talking about.”

Spartan
06-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Hossa set to extend 7 years???


PITTSBURGH -- While nothing will be announced during the Stanley Cup final, unrestricted free agent Marian Hossa (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/players/1640) likely will be signing a long-term deal, believed to be seven years, to stay with the Red Wings (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/teams/red_wings) . . .

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/michael_farber/06/02/finals.notes.martin/

Jake
06-02-2009, 04:04 PM
I am hopeful but not holding my breath

Cornholio
06-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Too many long contracts kill the Wings' depth!

Spartan
06-03-2009, 07:31 AM
Too many long contracts kill the Wings' depth!No, losing players to free agency does. These deals are good because they are under market. Detroit keeps their top level talent locked up long term, at the same time increases in the salary cap can be used to extend younger players instead of paying market price for free agents.

MrScientist
06-03-2009, 12:09 PM
I'd count on at least two of Chelios, Holmstrom, Draper, and Maltby retiring after this year. Helm and Ericsson need to be with the big club full time next year. I could very well see Kopecky walking...Samuelsson I'm not sure about. Right handed shot, but don't put him over other players because of it.

chgorman
06-03-2009, 12:24 PM
No, losing players to free agency does. These deals are good because they are under market. Detroit keeps their top level talent locked up long term, at the same time increases in the salary cap can be used to extend younger players instead of paying market price for free agents.

Except that when the cap goes down, they're gonna be in a bit of a bind, are they not? I thought the cap was supposed to start going down after next season...

Even for this coming season, according to NHLnumbers.com, the Wings are at $51.25 mill with only 16 players signed for next year. If the cap stays the same (which, I was under the impression is going to happen), that leaves less than $6mil to sign minimum 2 more forwards (and that's just to get to 12 total fwds, no extras). If Hossa is to resign for a $6-7mil cap hit deal (best case), either the Wings are gonna have to trade away a bunch of salary, or Maltby and/or Drapes are gonna have to retire, and that also means not re-signing Huds, Sammy, Leino and Kopecky (among others), so the Wings lose depth.

Then, if the cap goes down the next few seasons, they'll be in an even tougher spot, will they not?

I love the idea of having Hossa long term, but I'm also concerned about the lack of flexibility it will leave the team with if the cap goes down for a number of seasons after this next one.

In Kenny I trust, so I'm sure he'll make it work somehow or other, but I'm not so sure it's as easy as saying 'increases in the salary cap can be used to extend younger players', when there isn't expected to BE any increases in the cap for the next while, that I'm aware of, is there?

two24four
06-03-2009, 12:29 PM
I heard the Cap could come down as much as $10M by the '10-'11 season.

Spartan
06-03-2009, 01:16 PM
The cap relates to revenues to the previous season. So next years cap remains the same but the following year takes a hit because of the economic troubles. But the as the economy recovers so will revenues especially with great teams emerging in original six markets.

Another point to this depth issue is that there are just not enough roster spots to contain the depth available. You basically have a line of kids from Grand Rapids that have to bump someone from a spot. And there is another wave behind them (Ritola, Emmerton, Axelsson, Smith, Kindl). Hudler will likely fetch at least two picks, further stocking the minors. Sammy was gone anyways and expect many of the 4 cuppers to call it a career. Next year for the lower cap, Lidstrom will have a lower number. I expect a Hossa deal to be in the 4.5-5.5 million range, they will frontload it.

Cornholio
06-03-2009, 01:23 PM
I love the idea of having Hossa long term, but I'm also concerned about the lack of flexibility it will leave the team with if the cap goes down for a number of seasons after this next one.
That's just what I meant to say.

WIS
06-03-2009, 01:46 PM
The cap relates to revenues to the previous season. So next years cap remains the same but the following year takes a hit because of the economic troubles. But the as the economy recovers so will revenues especially with great teams emerging in original six markets.

Another point to this depth issue is that there are just not enough roster spots to contain the depth available. You basically have a line of kids from Grand Rapids that have to bump someone from a spot. And there is another wave behind them (Ritola, Emmerton, Axelsson, Smith, Kindl). Hudler will likely fetch at least two picks, further stocking the minors. Sammy was gone anyways and expect many of the 4 cuppers to call it a career. Next year for the lower cap, Lidstrom will have a lower number. I expect a Hossa deal to be in the 4.5-5.5 million range, they will frontload it.
That's pretty much half of what he can get on the open market. I'm interested to see how his negotiations will pan out.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
06-03-2009, 01:49 PM
Sorry guys but for one, I'm not sure this is the best move or a typical kind of A+ Holland move for the Red Wings... and for two, I will really L O L if he burns you all the way he did the Pens.

One word of advice... ignore it all and don't read too much into the media hype that come out between now and then. He was set to be resigned for a long term deal for us too, remember? :lol:

Doctego
06-03-2009, 02:11 PM
I expect a Hossa deal to be in the 4.5-5.5 million range, they will frontload it.

That wouldn't affect the cap hit but it could entice Hossa to sign for a little less overall.

Spartan
06-03-2009, 02:32 PM
That wouldn't affect the cap hit but it could entice Hossa to sign for a little less overall.The cap hit is the whole point, adding those extra 3 years at a million a year averages down the cap number. Getting Hossa in that 4-5 million range instead of 7 million allows them room to lock up young players, probably Conklin too.

MrScientist
06-03-2009, 03:26 PM
How's this look for a hypothetical Hossa deal: 7 years, $40 million

$9 mil, $9 mil, $8.5 mil, $8.5 mil, $2 mil, $1.5 mil, $1.5 mil

Doctego
06-03-2009, 04:33 PM
The cap hit is the whole point, adding those extra 3 years at a million a year averages down the cap number. Getting Hossa in that 4-5 million range instead of 7 million allows them room to lock up young players, probably Conklin too.

You think he'll take 3 years at around $1M??

Spartan
06-03-2009, 07:12 PM
You think he'll take 3 years at around $1M??

Franzen's contract structure is similar to Zetts' whose last two years are at $1 million each as well. Since Hossa is basically the same age, Holland would likely want the same framework. That is why I am doubting the 7 years term unless its at a mega discount.

The Franzen Deal = Cap number $3.95 million per year.
• 2009-10 — $5.5 million
• 2010-11 — $5 million
• 2011-12 — $5.25 million
• 2012-13 — $5.25 million
• 2013-14 — $5 million
• 2014-15 — $5 million
• 2015-16 — $5 million
• 2016-17 — $3.5 million
• 2017-18 — $2 million
• 2018-19 — $1 million
• 2019-20 — $1 million

Doctego
06-04-2009, 03:12 AM
Franzen's contract structure is similar to Zetts' whose last two years are at $1 million each as well. Since Hossa is basically the same age, Holland would likely want the same framework. That is why I am doubting the 7 years term unless its at a mega discount.

The Franzen Deal = Cap number $3.95 million per year.
• 2009-10 — $5.5 million
• 2010-11 — $5 million
• 2011-12 — $5.25 million
• 2012-13 — $5.25 million
• 2013-14 — $5 million
• 2014-15 — $5 million
• 2015-16 — $5 million
• 2016-17 — $3.5 million
• 2017-18 — $2 million
• 2018-19 — $1 million
• 2019-20 — $1 million

Good luck. If he can pull that off, great for him. The ages might be similar but Hossa is a much more established player.

chgorman
06-04-2009, 10:16 AM
Good luck. If he can pull that off, great for him. The ages might be similar but Hossa is a much more established player.

Hossa isn't gonna have much choice if he wants to stay. The Wings will offer him what they can afford (which will be a below mkt value offer, since they can't afford to offer fair mkt value for him under the cap), likely an offer like Sparty and bolts mentioned above, and if it's not enough for him, he'll walk. If he wants to stay, he'll have no choice but to take a lesser deal than he'd get elsewhere, simple as that, regardless of what Zetts' or Franzen's or Dats' current deals are.

Neither side really NEEDS each other - the Wings were fine without Hossa, Hossa was obviously successful before he came to the Wings - so it's not like either side has a huge bargaining chip on their side. If Hossa is willing to take less to stay with the Wings and the Wings can fit him in, something will likely get done. If he's not willing to take less, the Wings move on, resign Hudler and Leino, and Hossa goes elsewhere.

I really don't think there's gonna be much negotiating on Kenny H's part. It's likely gonna be something to the effect of 'Here's what we can offer you Hoss, take it or leave it.'

They definitely won't be offering him more than Zetts though, that's for sure. whether he deserves more than Zetts or not (he doesn't IMO, regardless of how much more 'established' you feel he is), it won't happen. Zetts is the future captain and arguably the best player on the team. No way Hossa gets more than him. The Wings don't work like that.

pjm
06-04-2009, 11:32 AM
I haven't really looked in depth into the Hossa situation but i really can't see hm staying. He signed a one year contract for a reason... to have a good chance at a cup (again) and up his market value. I imagine Hossa goes to the highest bidder come July, unless he really, really, really, really loves Detroit.

Doctego
06-04-2009, 11:49 AM
They definitely won't be offering him more than Zetts though, that's for sure. whether he deserves more than Zetts or not (he doesn't IMO, regardless of how much more 'established' you feel he is), it won't happen. Zetts is the future captain and arguably the best player on the team. No way Hossa gets more than him. The Wings don't work like that.

My "established" comment was in reference to Franzen and not Zetterberg.

chgorman
06-04-2009, 04:25 PM
My "established" comment was in reference to Franzen and not Zetterberg.

Right, sorry. I was confused by Spartan's wording, misread his post, my bad. :$

Doctego
06-04-2009, 04:28 PM
Right, sorry. I was confused by Spartan's wording, misread his post, my bad. :$

I went back and re-read his post and I was confused as well.:scared:

Spartan
06-22-2009, 08:08 PM
Chelios will not be re-signed, in other news, water is still wet.


Red Wings will not re-sign Chris Chelios

Ted Kulfan / The Detroit News

Detroit -- Chris Chelios will not be returning to the Red Wings.
General manager Ken Holland met with Chelios Monday afternoon and, as expected, gave him the news Chelios will not be re-signed.
"It was kind of understood last summer, after Cheli signed, that the 2008-09 season would be the last one for Cheli as a Red Wing," said Holland, noting the need for the Wings to bring in younger players. "He wants to play another season and I believe he can still play."


Chelios, 47, was not available for comment. Chelios said late in the regular season he didn't expect to be re-signed by the Wings, but wants to continue playing somewhere in the NHL.
Holland said Chelios was a terrific addition to the Red Wings organization, after being acquired at the 1999 trade deadline.
"Just a perfect role model for young players," Holland said. "His dedication to the game is extraordinary."
Holland also said he expects to talk with agents for Marian Hossa, Mikael Samuelsson, Ty Conklin and Tomas Kopecky this weekend in Montreal during the NHL Entry Draft.


I am of the age where Chelios is a Blackhawk and always will be so I never liked him. If Vladdy never got f'ed up in that accident he never would have been here. Concidentally if this move was made last year we would still have Quincey, but whatever that guy sucks right?

chgorman
06-23-2009, 11:45 AM
So, what's the general concensus regarding what's going to/should happen to the team over the offseason?

Obviously the biggest issue is Hossa... If he's gonna sign, it's gonna have to be for well below mkt value, and it means likely both of Sammy and Huds are gone (Sammy is likely gone regardless, it sounds like). I say do whatever is reasonable to sign Hossa. What do you guys think? Eff Sammy, he can go (and he will), and although I like Huds in the reg season, he pretty much disappeared in the playoffs this year, and at least the team would get something in return for him if he signed elsewhere, being restricted and all. If it means they have to lose those two guys, I say Hossa is well worth that.

In goal, is Jimmy ready to backup? His numbers seem decent, but he also seems to be pretty inconsistent... I've heard rumors of him possibly being traded even. Is Conks back? Who backs up if Conks leaves and Howard STILL isn't ready? I've heard Manny Legace's name mentioned in a an article... not sure how I feel abut that. Are there any other decent FA backups out there? I haven't been paying any attention to who is going to be available.

Will they do anything in Free Agency? Can they even afford to? I've heard names like Neil and Laperierre tossed around, but could they even afford either of those guys if Hossa re-signs? I'd like to see either of those two in a Wings uni, but I can't see how they can afford it... unless....

Is there a chance any of Holmstrom, Draper or Maltby retire? It wouldn't free up much cap space, but every little bit helps, and would open up a roster spot as well.

Projected roster for next year?

This is what I would like to see:

(assuming Hossa is resigned and thus Sammy and Hudler go elsewhere)

Hossa-Dats-Homer
Cleary/Leino-Zetterberg-Franzen
Leino/Cleary-Helm-Filppula
Maltby-Draper-Neil/Laperierre

Lids-Raffi
Kron-Stuart
Ericsson-Lebda
Lilja

Oz
Howard/Conklin/FA backup

(I don't think I'm missing anybody, but please speak up if I am)

I haven't been looking into it closely at all, so not sure if this scenario is realistic at all given the cap, but this is what I would like to see. Not too fussy on who backs up Oz, as long as whomever it is is cheap.

Lastly, anybody heard anything about who they're looking at in the draft this year? I haven't been paying any attention to any Wings draft buzz.

P.S. Spartan - I agree re: Cheli, he def played one yr too long, some/most may say two. I was a Cheli supporter even up to the start of the season, but I was wrong and I see now that he should've hung 'em up. Sucks that DET had to lose Quincey in order to keep Cheli, woulda been nice to at least get something for Quincey in return.

Spartan
06-23-2009, 01:04 PM
According to Holland's comments this morning, full faith in Howard as a primary backup. I think this is smart if they can't get anything in return for him. Best just to let Conks walk and give Howard time and see what happens. Backup goalies are available year round so I just don't see a reason for signing Legace unless its a two-way deal.

I'm not sure any of those guys retire. Holmstrom said he wants at least one more year, the two other guys are under contract so I doubt it.

The Wings are up against an impending salary cap snag next year. Holland said he won't make offers until the cap is released, shows you they are to the last dollar making something work. If he stays its a 4 million cap number or less, I dunno about that, seems too generous on Hossa's part.

As far as potential free agents, it will depend on our three guys of course but my thoughts;

Chad LaRose, PJ Axelsson and Sammy Pahlsson - Would love to have them but they aren't going anywhere.

Bowmeester or Beauchemin - Unrealistic, we already pay more to or D group than any other team and no one deserves a demotion.

Fedorov, Dandenault, Legace - Thanks but we saw those movies when they were current.

Neil or Laperriere - YES, we have no one on the roster that makes teams pay. At least no one that you send immediately back to Grand Rapids. It really showed in the playoffs, example Talbot slashing Dats' foot. Talbot never paid for that one, Roberts never paid for elbowing Franzen in 08' either. The problem with counting on your powerplay as an equalizer is when it is struggling and you have no other options. Kopecky and Lilja both were out for the season because they were fighting when that is clearly not their role. Lilja was a massive loss for our penalty kill. A guy that can fight and play 50 games on the roster would help the entire team more than another scorer.

Spartan
06-24-2009, 10:47 AM
Wings have until Tuesday to renew a 20 year lease with the City of Detroit.

Kiss the Joe goodbye.

chgorman
06-24-2009, 11:42 AM
According to Holland's comments this morning, full faith in Howard as a primary backup. I think this is smart if they can't get anything in return for him. Best just to let Conks walk and give Howard time and see what happens. Backup goalies are available year round so I just don't see a reason for signing Legace unless its a two-way deal.

Cool, and I completely agree with your comments. Gotta at least give Jimmy a shot. They've waited this long... :rolleyes: :lol:


I'm not sure any of those guys retire. Holmstrom said he wants at least one more year, the two other guys are under contract so I doubt it.

I was hoping more than anything, lol. Maltby was never very good to begin with, and I've seen noticeable decline in his game this past season, season and a half. Drapes had his worst season in a LONG time and has been having injury issues recently, and Helm is already better than him (IMO). Both Drapes and Maltby are getting up there in age, and I heard somewhere that Homer is sick of taking so much abuse in front of the net and the resulting injuries (to the point that it's making him depressed, not sure where I saw/heard this, so take it with a grain of salt), and he's never been all that great either aside from in front of the net. Played his role well, but that's the best you can say of him, doesn't bring a lot to the table otherwise. Franzen/Cleary/ and/or Neil/Laperierre (if they get one of those two) could definitely pick up any front-of-the-net slack.

Guess I'm just hoping one of those three retires more than anything, as it would likely allow Kenny to bring in a Neil/Laperierre.


The Wings are up against an impending salary cap snag next year. Holland said he won't make offers until the cap is released, shows you they are to the last dollar making something work. If he stays its a 4 million cap number or less, I dunno about that, seems too generous on Hossa's part.

Good point. Even if they can fit Hossa in under the cap this year, they may be screwed next year if the cap goes down at all.


As far as potential free agents, it will depend on our three guys of course but my thoughts;

Chad LaRose, PJ Axelsson and Sammy Pahlsson - Would love to have them but they aren't going anywhere.

Bowmeester or Beauchemin - Unrealistic, we already pay more to or D group than any other team and no one deserves a demotion.

Fedorov, Dandenault, Legace - Thanks but we saw those movies when they were current.

Neil or Laperriere - YES, we have no one on the roster that makes teams pay. At least no one that you send immediately back to Grand Rapids. It really showed in the playoffs, example Talbot slashing Dats' foot. Talbot never paid for that one, Roberts never paid for elbowing Franzen in 08' either. The problem with counting on your powerplay as an equalizer is when it is struggling and you have no other options. Kopecky and Lilja both were out for the season because they were fighting when that is clearly not their role. Lilja was a massive loss for our penalty kill. A guy that can fight and play 50 games on the roster would help the entire team more than another scorer.

I agree, I really think Neil/Laperierre need to be the prime targets. I like Neil more by a little bit, but I'd be happy with either guy.

Larose/Axelsson/Pahlsson - meh. Any one of 'em would be an upgrade on Maltby, and possibly Draper at this point too, but they'll likely cost more as well. I don't think it's worth it, especially since they'd have to lose somebody to make room. If Hossa doesn't resign, I'd be happy to have any one of these three join the Wings, but how do you fit 'em in to the lineup when You have to make room for Helm and Leino and Sammy and one of Hossa/Hudler are the only two likely departures? Force Maltby to retire? I don't think he'd be happy being a healthy scratch every game. I'd much rather see the team sign a Neil/Lappy type.

Bouw/Beauch - would be sweet to get either one, but COMPLETELY unecessary. Either aquisition would likely push Stuart down to the 3rd pair (which he won't go for), pushes Ericsson or Lebda to the 7th spot, and pushes Lilly outta the picture. No way either of these two should even be a consideration unless Lids is retiring this year.

Feds/Dandy/Legace - Feds could be a nice addition, depending on the price. His game seems to have deteriorated significantly for the past while, but he's still a solid player who could potentially play on any line if necessary (although would likely play 3rd/4th on DET), and D in a pinch/on the PP. I wouldn't be upset to see him come back as long as he was cheap, but not at the expense of not getting a Neil/Lappy. Dandy's positional versatility is nice, but he doesn't bring a whole lot else that somebody else doesn't already bring better. I don't see any reason to look at him. Legace is a big no for me right now, only because I want to see what Jimmy H can do. If it becomes obvious that Jimmy can't handle the job, I'd be fine with looking at Manny as long as he's SUPER cheap. He had a lousy season this year, but was pretty solid the year before and in previous seasons with the wings. I definitely don't think they should be looking at him right now though.

Obviously the cap is gonna be an issue, but roster spots will be too. With Helm and Ericsson playing up full time, and Leino threatening to bolt back to Finland if he doesn't play up all season, and only Cheli, Sammy and Hossa or Hudler likely to leave, they would still need to find a spot for any of those FA's they may add. What's the deal with Kopecky? Is he pretty much good as gone? 'Cause that would free up a roster spot for a FA pickup.


Wings have until Tuesday to renew a 20 year lease with the City of Detroit.

Kiss the Joe goodbye.

They said something on rotoworld about there being a possibility of the Joe being upgraded...? I didn't actually read the linked article (should have, maybe I'll do that), but does that even make much sense? I realize the building is only 30 yrs old and the team gets a sweet deal from the city, but I thought all the talk was of putting a brand new arena by the Fox Theatre? I guess an upgrade would save taxpayers money over building an entirely new arena....

Spartan
06-24-2009, 12:33 PM
They said something on rotoworld about there being a possibility of the Joe being upgraded...? I didn't actually read the linked article (should have, maybe I'll do that), but does that even make much sense? I realize the building is only 30 yrs old and the team gets a sweet deal from the city, but I thought all the talk was of putting a brand new arena by the Fox Theatre? I guess an upgrade would save taxpayers money over building an entirely new arena....All posturing, Illitch wants a new arena and the City of Detroit wants the Wings out of the Joe. The Wings lease the Joe for, get this, $475,000 a year. The lease was signed before Illitch owned the team and they were shit. This is a huge revenue loser for the city. They want to expand Cobo Hall and the only spot to do that is the Joe. Illitch is throwing the upgrade stuff out there to leverage the city to be more favorable towards his building plans.

There are really two sites for a new arena on is near the Fox where Illitch owns and there is already considerable razing underway. This would put the Fox, Ford Field, CoPa, Hockeytown Cafe and the new arena within the same area.

The other to consider is rumored to be the property near Motor City Casino which is also owned by Illitch. This would put the arena next to the hotel and casino which is also a payoff for the Illitch family.

Cornholio
06-24-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't really like Neil, would rather have Laperriere playing on "my team".
But that might be just my personal taste...

Spartan
06-26-2009, 10:31 AM
Make it official, the Wings declined the renewal on Joe Louis Arena.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/red_wings_decline_option_to_re.html#more

chgorman
06-26-2009, 10:43 AM
So this means a new arena is going up for sure then, somewhere? Are they still gonna be able to play in the Joe next year while the new arena is being built?

How do all you guys feel about this? I know there's Wings fans out there who love the place, some who hate it. I'm kinda on the fence. It's got a lot of sentimentality for me, and I love that there wasn't a bad seat in the house, but at the same time, it could def use some more modern amenities and whatnot. I'm excited to see what the new building will be like, but I'll miss the JLA, for sure.

Spartan
06-26-2009, 10:49 AM
So this means a new arena is going up for sure then, somewhere? Are they still gonna be able to play in the Joe next year while the new arena is being built?The current lease expires after the 2010 season. They will likely get a 3-5 yr. extension that allows them time to build a new arena. The other option now that Bill Davidson is dead is that the Wings could play a few seasons at The Palace of Auburn Hills. The Vipers played there, and before Davidson acquired the Lightning, he and Peter Karmanos (Hurricanes owner) tried to buy the Jets and move them to Detroit and play at The Palace.

Spartan
06-26-2009, 10:51 AM
How do all you guys feel about this? I know there's Wings fans out there who love the place, some who hate it. I'm kinda on the fence. It's got a lot of sentimentality for me, and I love that there wasn't a bad seat in the house, but at the same time, it could def use some more modern amenities and whatnot. I'm excited to see what the new building will be like, but I'll miss the JLA, for sure.Good riddance. I have nothing positive to say about the Joe.

chgorman
06-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Good riddance. I have nothing positive to say about the Joe.

Haha, not a fan eh? Can I ask why? I've heard a lot of complaints about the narrowness of the concourse, the steepness of the stairs up to the seats and the lack of a handrail, etc, some people HATE the troughs, for whatever reason. What'd I miss?

Spartan
06-26-2009, 11:00 AM
Haha, not a fan eh? Can I ask why? I've heard a lot of complaints about the narrowness of the concourse, the steepness of the stairs up to the seats and the lack of a handrail, etc, some people HATE the troughs, for whatever reason. What'd I miss?Terrible location in relation to the rest of the city. I avoid drinking beer there because if you have to piss it take a full 20 minutes. Its worse for the women. The luxury boxes are around the top and are no treat compared to those like CoPa or even Olds Park here in Lansing.

Chilly_Willy
06-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Terrible location in relation to the rest of the city. I avoid drinking beer there because if you have to piss it take a full 20 minutes. Its worse for the women. The luxury boxes are around the top and are no treat compared to those like CoPa or even Olds Park here in Lansing.

I agree a lot the Joe is a very outdated venu. You get stuck in the concourse like cattle, if you don't leave your seat 4 minutes before the period ends to pee you will not be back to see the puck drop next period. Once you do get in the bathroom its a community open trof so you have to stand next to some fat guy with a mullet and a wife beater and try to break the seal. There is nothing directly around the Joe to do you have quite a walk to get to your car or anything you want to go do after, there is no entertainment district feal whatsoever at the Joe. Those seats up in the corners are rediculous too, there are 3 rows of seats in the top corners that have no stadium raise above the row in front so in those seats you must stand and hope you are taller than the guy in front. Seats need cup holders. I am a big form follows funtion guy but the joe is very cinderblocky white paint stained concrete floors very old building. There only thing redeming about the place is the history the wings made there.

eykwingnut
06-26-2009, 09:14 PM
Good riddance. I have nothing positive to say about the Joe.
agreed!

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
06-27-2009, 02:10 AM
I agree a lot the Joe is a very outdated venu. You get stuck in the concourse like cattle, if you don't leave your seat 4 minutes before the period ends to pee you will not be back to see the puck drop next period. Once you do get in the bathroom its a community open trof so you have to stand next to some fat guy with a mullet and a wife beater and try to break the seal. There is nothing directly around the Joe to do you have quite a walk to get to your car or anything you want to go do after, there is no entertainment district feal whatsoever at the Joe. Those seats up in the corners are rediculous too, there are 3 rows of seats in the top corners that have no stadium raise above the row in front so in those seats you must stand and hope you are taller than the guy in front. Seats need cup holders. I am a big form follows funtion guy but the joe is very cinderblocky white paint stained concrete floors very old building. There only thing redeming about the place is the history the wings made there.

:lol:

Another Wings fan on the board eh?

Us Penguins fans feel equally distraught about the igloo (usually). Though the memories and history is what makes it kinda special.. that JCVD in SUDDEN DEATH :lol: :heart:

Hope you guys get a sweet new facility like we are getting in the Burgh. That Red Wings franchise has definitely earned it. :beer:

Oh. Do you guys think a new arena would help with Red Wings ticket sales in Detroit? Or hurt it even more by having to raise prices in a new state of the art home? I always see a pretty fair amount of empty seats and I know we make our cracks about it but this is a serious question!

Jake
06-27-2009, 01:27 PM
I have been wanting a new arena for a while. When you go see games at other arenas then come back to the Joe it really puts it in perspective. Its too old and not enough room or bathrooms. A few 9 dollar beers and you miss half a period taking a leak. I appreciate the history, but not enough to keep dragging and kicking a dead horse. Make it like Comerica where they brought in stuff from Tiger Stadium. I will miss the seats though, they are fairly large for a stadium and comfortable

I know Illitch tried to build a new arena, but where he wanted to build (behind Comerica) was blocked by our wonderful City Council (I hate Monic Conyers, cant wait for her to go to prison) because it was a historical building that he wons and would have to tear down. Historical and burned to the point it is condemed and has no wiring or plumbing left.

Empty seats.... I know it is obvious that the auto industry is collapsing, but it goes deeper that just the auto workers. A few of my friends worked for companies that built parts for GM and they are out of a job as of now. A TON of jobs and rely on supplying the big three with parts, so when they imploded so did almost everything around here. The trickle down effect is mind-blowing, there is not a single thing around here that is not fucked as a result. I am pretty sure we have the highest unemployment in the nation and it keeps getting worse.

I have said this a few times, but before the auto fuckup the real fans got screwed. Once we started winning all of the good seats were bought up by companies and given out as a prestigous thing. A friend of mine works for Coke and used to get tickets all of the time when they did not give them to vendors. He threw them all away though because he lives an hour away and would get them at the last second and had to be up for work at 5 in the morning and he could seldom at best find anybody who could go at the last second. Those seats were 2 rows behind the penalty box. I told him I would take all of them off his hands when he gets them, but it is just an example of how ticket sales went. The upper bowl is usually more full than the lower bowl because that it what most people who love the game can afford.

Hockeyis#1
06-28-2009, 07:01 AM
Or hurt it even more by having to raise prices in a new state of the art home?

Probably this....but idk for sure

Spartan
07-01-2009, 08:07 AM
With Hossa apparently gone, it looks like Holland will try to lock up a deal with Hudler. I could see the Wings doing nothing else and waiting until the trade deadline to make possible moves this year. Might as well get a look at guys like Abdelkader, Leino, Howard and Ritola then decide if you need some veterans later in the season.:dunno:

chgorman
07-01-2009, 08:54 AM
They're pushing DMc and Downey out the door, making me think they might be clearing space to make a run at Neil or Laperierre. If that's not what they're doing, it should be.

Do they have the space to sign Huds, Leino and one of those two? Rotoworld is suggesting that they're gonna give Sammy a raise and re-sign him with the left over cap space, but I'd much rather they grab Neil or Lappy over resigning Sammy, let alone giving him a raise.

eykwingnut
07-01-2009, 09:15 AM
Rotoworld is suggesting that they're gonna give Sammy a raise and re-sign him with the left over cap space, but I'd much rather they grab Neil or Lappy over resigning Sammy, let alone giving him a raise.
OMG if they give that shitbag a raise ill be so pissed. he's terrible...

Spartan
07-01-2009, 10:01 AM
They're pushing DMc and Downey out the door, making me think they might be clearing space to make a run at Neil or Laperierre. If that's not what they're doing, it should be.

Do they have the space to sign Huds, Leino and one of those two? Rotoworld is suggesting that they're gonna give Sammy a raise and re-sign him with the left over cap space, but I'd much rather they grab Neil or Lappy over resigning Sammy, let alone giving him a raise.Everything I have read indicates Sammy is gone. His house is up for sale and the whole nine yards. Extending Leino and Hudler would leave little room considering the questionible goalie situation.

If Neil turned down 1.7MM, I just don't see Kenny H. offering more than that.

chgorman
07-01-2009, 11:20 AM
How much cap space do they actually have? According to nhlnumbers.com, they have $5.6, but I'm not sure if that is 100% accurate. They need to sign/re-sign 3 fwds with that, assuming Abs plays in GR, which I believe is the plan.

Guess it depends on what Leino wants. If he wants much more than 1-1.5, it's gonna be tough to sign anybody decent to fill that 12 fwd spot, assuming Huds gets 2-2.5 (Cleary and Filp are both getting 2.5, can't see Huds asking for more than them).

Might be better off just having Abs up this year...

Spartan
07-01-2009, 11:33 AM
How much cap space do they actually have? According to nhlnumbers.com, they have $5.6, but I'm not sure if that is 100% accurate. They need to sign/re-sign 3 fwds with that, assuming Abs plays in GR, which I believe is the plan.

Guess it depends on what Leino wants. If he wants much more than 1-1.5, it's gonna be tough to sign anybody decent to fill that 12 fwd spot, assuming Huds gets 2-2.5 (Cleary and Filp are both getting 2.5, can't see Huds asking for more than them).

Might be better off just having Abs up this year...According to this 3.3 million. http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=15&salary_cap_mil=56&salary_cap_thou=8&bonuses=Yes

I don't think Leino has enough NHL experience to warrant a sheet from another team. I agree with you on Huds, it will all depend on what teams offer him.

Cornholio
07-01-2009, 03:39 PM
Extending Leino and Hudler would leave little room considering the questionible goalie situation.
Isn't Howard gonna be the backup?
I thought that was the plan...

Spartan
07-01-2009, 03:47 PM
Isn't Howard gonna be the backup?
I thought that was the plan...Yeah he is the backup. But what I was getting at is he is unproven. So what happens if the Wings are competing for the Central next year and Ozzie goes down or has one of his funks and Howard proves not up to the challenge? Saving some room under the cap would allow them to get a veteran backup at the trade deadline.

Cornholio
07-02-2009, 03:37 PM
Well they had to sign Howard, or the last few years were spent for nothing.
I hope you get the point, because I don't really know how to describe it ;)

Maybe they have to get another goalie, but the should have confidence in Howard and show that they do.

eykwingnut
07-04-2009, 10:30 AM
Now we need to not sign McCarty/Chelios, and trade Rafalski (not going to happen, I know) to get some cap room. The guy is a pylon on defense. I don't care how good he is in the offensive zone.

Cornholio
07-05-2009, 03:16 PM
They won't sign Chelio & D-Mac.
But I wonder if they're gonna sign Hudler... I mean, they still need a couple of players.

chgorman
07-05-2009, 04:36 PM
They'll resign Hudler and Leino, but they'll still need a 12th fwd, so either Abs plays up full time, or they sign somebody super cheap. Not sure who is left that they could afford after resigning Huds and Leino though. May be forced to resign DMc for the minimum if they don't want to bring Abs up full time yet.

Chilly_Willy
07-06-2009, 09:19 AM
Everything I have read indicates Sammy is gone. His house is up for sale and the whole nine yards. Extending Leino and Hudler would leave little room considering the questionible goalie situation.

If Neil turned down 1.7MM, I just don't see Kenny H. offering more than that.

Sammy went to vancover over the holiday. He always filled the position well but I can't say I'm sorry to see him go. His hockey was never really that exciting IMO. except the occasional goal of course. :hic:

With hossa leaving a pretty big role to fill, chelli finally out of the picture, Lidstrom, Drapper, and osgood really starting to face age releted performance decline. Dare I say wings are entering a rebuild phase? ;)

eykwingnut
07-06-2009, 09:37 AM
Sammy went to vancover over the holiday. He always filled the position well but I can't say I'm sorry to see him go. His hockey was never really that exciting IMO. except the occasional goal of course. :hic:

With hossa leaving a pretty big role to fill, chelli finally out of the picture, Lidstrom, Drapper, and osgood really starting to face age releted performance decline. Dare I say wings are entering a rebuild phase? ;)
cheli is terrible, and really didn't play much last year. hossa was an added piece that we never really needed. osgood really isnt anything special. draper is only in there for face-offs at this point in his career. lidstrom is still good, but i dont see a whole rebuilding era over just lidstrom. we have plently of young talented defenseman, or we could get a solid free agent once he is gone (his cap hit is huge).

MrScientist
07-06-2009, 10:38 AM
Saw that Hudler is going to arbitration, kind of a douche move. Hope it doesn't handcuff the Wings...

chgorman
07-06-2009, 10:46 AM
Sammy went to vancover over the holiday. He always filled the position well but I can't say I'm sorry to see him go. His hockey was never really that exciting IMO. except the occasional goal of course. :hic:

With hossa leaving a pretty big role to fill, chelli finally out of the picture, Lidstrom, Drapper, and osgood really starting to face age releted performance decline. Dare I say wings are entering a rebuild phase? ;)

I think the saying goes... The Wings don't rebuild, they just reload.... or somthing like that?

eyk put it perfectly, DET won the cup without Hossa, Cheli & Dmac never played this past season and are done anyways, so no loss there, Leino can easily fill Sammy's role, Draper is only there as a faceoff and PK specialist and is easily replaced by Helm. Maltby will be easily replaced by Abdelkader in a yr. It'll suck to lose Oz, as he's been pretty damn solid in the playoffs the past few yrs, but they can obviously still win in the reg season without him, or at least without him playing well, and there's still hope that Howard/Larsson/McCollum can take over full time in a few yrs. Losing Lids will hurt for sure, but there's plenty of talent on D on the team now that can step up, with more on the way (Kindl, Smith). There's really no glaring holes to speak of. Certainly not enough to warrant a 'rebuild', haha.

eykwingnut
07-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Saw that Hudler is going to arbitration, kind of a douche move. Hope it doesn't handcuff the Wings...
is it true we offered him 2.5M recently? if thats true then he must really not want to play for us. hes got to know we dont have the cap room. almost time to wave goodbye. we just flat out cant afford it.

MrScientist
07-06-2009, 11:06 AM
is it true we offered him 2.5M recently? if thats true then he must really not want to play for us. hes got to know we dont have the cap room. almost time to wave goodbye. we just flat out cant afford it.

He had his breakout regular season this year, and once again is fucking gone in the playoffs. He's the kind of player I don't see being successful outside of Detroit, so good riddance if he wants to back the truck up at this point.

eykwingnut
07-06-2009, 11:15 AM
He had his breakout regular season this year, and once again is fucking gone in the playoffs. He's the kind of player I don't see being successful outside of Detroit, so good riddance if he wants to back the truck up at this point.
i agree. he's just a product of the system. i pity the team that pays him what they THINK he's worth.

MrScientist
07-06-2009, 11:21 AM
Well he is a top 6 forward mold of a player, which is what Tampa needs...but Lawton can do a lot better than whatever money Jiri is due + compensating the Wings

Chilly_Willy
07-06-2009, 12:32 PM
I think the saying goes... The Wings don't rebuild, they just reload.... or somthing like that?

eyk put it perfectly, DET won the cup without Hossa, Cheli & Dmac never played this past season and are done anyways, so no loss there, Leino can easily fill Sammy's role, Draper is only there as a faceoff and PK specialist and is easily replaced by Helm. Maltby will be easily replaced by Abdelkader in a yr. It'll suck to lose Oz, as he's been pretty damn solid in the playoffs the past few yrs, but they can obviously still win in the reg season without him, or at least without him playing well, and there's still hope that Howard/Larsson/McCollum can take over full time in a few yrs. Losing Lids will hurt for sure, but there's plenty of talent on D on the team now that can step up, with more on the way (Kindl, Smith). There's really no glaring holes to speak of. Certainly not enough to warrant a 'rebuild', haha.


I really mean in the most minor sense. As long as zetts and dats are healthy there is a bright young group around thats for sure. I just don't see them challenging for a cup again unless some of these younger players graduate to an elite status. But with linds, draps, ozzy, sammy, maltby and crew phasing out its certianly a changing of the guard. Rebuild is too strong, but this defenetly feels like a "reload".

Spartan
07-08-2009, 08:54 AM
Apparently Hudler has signed a two year deal in the KHL with Dynamo.
http://www.hokej.cz/index.php?lng=CZ&view=clanek&id=44095

He believes that he is worth $3-4 million bucks, good luck with that. He can still re-up with the Wings, but it is looking less likely when he makes moves like this.

eykwingnut
07-08-2009, 09:49 AM
Apparently Hudler has signed a two year deal in the KHL with Dynamo.
http://www.hokej.cz/index.php?lng=CZ&view=clanek&id=44095

He believes that he is worth $3-4 million bucks, good luck with that. He can still re-up with the Wings, but it is looking less likely when he makes moves like this.
so he can still come back to the nhl if they pay him what he wants? i agree, very unlikely when you look at our current numbers at http://www.nhlnumbers.com/

chgorman
07-08-2009, 09:52 AM
$3-$4 mil for a 50-60pt guy who - for some reason - can only produce from the 3rd line but not on one of the top two, and whom disappears for large portions of the playoffs?? Dude is out to lunch!

So if Huds doesn't re-sign, who do they go after? Who is still left that is decent but doesn't cost too much? Really too bad that they missed out on Neil and Laperriere.

I've seen Taylor Pyatt's name tossed around in a few places... still not sure how I feel about that, but I could see it potwntially working. Bring him in, have him play 3rd or 4th line for a yr to get him used to the system, while having Homer teach him every single thing he knows about standing in front of the net, then Pyatt can take Homer's spot full-time once Homer (likely) retires after this season. Pyatt would def be tough for the opposing goalie to see around... the kid is huge.

I have no clue who else is even still available that DET could afford, so I can't even specualte on who else they could bring in.

MrScientist
07-08-2009, 10:25 AM
Watch him scuffle in the KHL and try to crawl back. Bet Kenny tells him to go fuck himself

Spartan
07-08-2009, 10:56 AM
So if Huds doesn't re-sign, who do they go after? Who is still left that is decent but doesn't cost too much? Really too bad that they missed out on Neil and Laperriere.
Depends on where they want to add. Bertuzzi, Grier, Pyatt, Axelsson, Kotalik, Moen?

Hockeyis#1
07-08-2009, 11:01 AM
Even if there is a "reloading" in detroit, it's not like free agents don't want to come here like we're Atlanta.

If only the Michigan economy didn't rival Zimbabwe

Chilly_Willy
07-08-2009, 11:05 AM
Apparently Hudler has signed a two year deal in the KHL with Dynamo.
http://www.hokej.cz/index.php?lng=CZ&view=clanek&id=44095

He believes that he is worth $3-4 million bucks, good luck with that. He can still re-up with the Wings, but it is looking less likely when he makes moves like this.

Good ridance, to players who are all about the money. However I think the days of people taking pay cuts to play in Detroit may be comming to an end. 3 to 4 mill is way to big a cap hit though. With sammy and hossa out of town he was almost garunteed top 6 time even and PP. IMO this is a dumb career move for him similar to the direction Fedorov went. At the end of the day loosing Hudler would be a bitter pill for red wings to swallow. This reload term seems to be gaining more emphasis as the off season continues.

two24four
07-08-2009, 11:10 AM
$3-$4 mil for a 50-60pt guy who - for some reason - can only produce from the 3rd line but not on one of the top two, and whom disappears for large portions of the playoffs?? Dude is out to lunch!

So if Huds doesn't re-sign, who do they go after? Who is still left that is decent but doesn't cost too much? Really too bad that they missed out on Neil and Laperriere.

I've seen Taylor Pyatt's name tossed around in a few places... still not sure how I feel about that, but I could see it potwntially working. Bring him in, have him play 3rd or 4th line for a yr to get him used to the system, while having Homer teach him every single thing he knows about standing in front of the net, then Pyatt can take Homer's spot full-time once Homer (likely) retires after this season. Pyatt would def be tough for the opposing goalie to see around... the kid is huge.

I have no clue who else is even still available that DET could afford, so I can't even specualte on who else they could bring in.

I dont think you want Pyatt, he's slow as shit skating wise.

Spartan
07-08-2009, 11:27 AM
Personally I would rather try to get Kotalik, a nice fit for line 2. Hudler can be replaced by Abdelkader or Leino and the Wings would be better off with the addition of size. I would be excited to see a Leino-Helm-Abdelkader line next year.

fancy19
07-08-2009, 02:08 PM
Wings sign Janik...

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=284089

:scared:

MrScientist
07-08-2009, 02:14 PM
Who's getting traded...hmm

fancy19
07-08-2009, 02:20 PM
Lilja!

Spartan
07-08-2009, 02:33 PM
That headline should say the Griffiths signed Janik.

chgorman
07-08-2009, 03:07 PM
I dont think you want Pyatt, he's slow as shit skating wise.

So is Homer, lol. Still manages to find his way to the front of the net.


Personally I would rather try to get Kotalik, a nice fit for line 2. Hudler can be replaced by Abdelkader or Leino and the Wings would be better off with the addition of size. I would be excited to see a Leino-Helm-Abdelkader line next year.

I always liked Kotalik when he was on BUF. I wouldn't mind seeing them sign him. In fact, he'd be a great replacement for Sammy, as they play a similar game (take lots of shots, I think Kotalik can or has played the point on the PP before).


Wings sign Janik...

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=284089

:scared:

W...




T......




F.............






:wtf:

phaneuf6
07-08-2009, 03:38 PM
Afinogenov might fit in Detroit.. any thoughts on him?

Hamsterkill
07-08-2009, 06:35 PM
I always liked Kotalik when he was on BUF. I wouldn't mind seeing them sign him. In fact, he'd be a great replacement for Sammy, as they play a similar game (take lots of shots, I think Kotalik can or has played the point on the PP before).

Kotalik's a nice player with a mean shot. And yes, he did play a PP pointman while in Buffalo.

Afinogenov might fit in Detroit.. any thoughts on him?
You can have him. Hell, he might even learn how play hockey in Detroit with all that experience around.

Sponge Bong Beer Pants
07-08-2009, 06:40 PM
Kotalik's a nice player with a mean shot. And yes, he did play a PP pointman while in Buffalo.

You can have him. Hell, he might even learn how play hockey in Detroit with all that experience around.

He's had bouts of brilliance though, hasn't he? Bit of an injury hx too ? I think he's just missing that special something that drives him to perform at 100% day in and day out.

Spartan
07-08-2009, 07:03 PM
The problem with Afinogenov is that there is so little cap space available that it would likely mean a roster player would have to be traded to open the space. I would not want to part with anyone when you don't know what you're getting in return. The only way is a bargain basement price on a one year deal, and I don't see that happening.

This deal with Hudler doesn't necessarily mean a move has to be made. Leino in all actuality is Huds replacement. Like Chgorman said, its Sammy that is yet to be replaced and Kotalik would make a ton of sense playing with Filppula and Franzen. Ericsson and Stuart will split the point duties according to Holland but depth from Kotalik would be nice. I think Hudler bolting affects Abdelkader the most, they wanted him getting 20 minutes a night in Grand Rapids this year instead of 8-10 on the fourth line. He is likely a third liner now and that could give him enough time to develop his game. My worries with the team lie with Draper, Maltby and Holmstrom. Holmer needs to be a third liner and powerplay specialist. It would not hurt to hold him out of back to back games as well, it has to be a priority to get him in the playoffs healthy. A solid grinder to get fourth line duty may be the best bet, someone like Betts, Moen or take a flyer on Mark Bell.

Hamsterkill
07-08-2009, 07:08 PM
He's had bouts of brilliance though, hasn't he? Bit of an injury hx too ? I think he's just missing that special something that drives him to perform at 100% day in and day out.
No. The guy has oodles of skill and doesn't mind using it. His problem has always been that he has the hockey sense of a rock -- at least in North America... Even that year or two that he put up some points on Briere's wing I was always yelling at him through my TV for being a dumbass and giving up chances so damn often.

eykwingnut
07-08-2009, 09:19 PM
Who's getting traded...hmm


Lilja!
one can only hope!

chgorman
07-09-2009, 02:54 PM
Looks like Kotalik is out of the question... just signed with NYR. Damn. Nice signing for them.

I'm on the fence with regard to Afin. Love his speed, the Wings have the passing to get him the puck on the go, I think him and Dats could do some damage together, but I'm not sold on him. Too inconsistent, too many injuries, doesn't seem to have much of a head for the game. What's his story defensively? I don't think it wouldn't be a deal breaker if he were willing to sign for cheap, but the Wings typically don't go after guys who can't at least hold their own in their own end, or aren't willing to learn how.

He did seem to have his best year when BUF was playing at the peak of their run-and-gun style and he had a good playmaking center, which fits with the Wings offensive style nicely.

I dunno. His speed excites me, if he could be had cheap, I'd say give it a shot, but I'm not entirely sold on him being a good option right now, especially if he's gonna expect a big paycheck.

phaneuf6
07-09-2009, 08:21 PM
He might be willing to sign a 2 way contract which would be nice. I know most 'established' NHLers won't but going to the Wings and having a good year could revitalize his career. I'd love to see him playing alongside Dats or even on a line with Helm. Fastest line in the league heh.

Hamsterkill
07-09-2009, 08:47 PM
What's his story defensively?


He's not much use in his own end, but the area of the ice he hurts his team the most in is the neutral zone where he's constantly turning the puck over or being stripped of it because he wants to dance around rather than make the safe play.

chgorman
07-09-2009, 08:58 PM
He's not much use in his own end, but the area of the ice he hurts his team the most in is the neutral zone where he's constantly turning the puck over or being stripped of it because he wants to dance around rather than make the safe play.

Ahh okay... yeah, that won't cut it in DET. Thx for the input Hamster. If that's a big problem for him then he definitely won't fit the Wings' style of play.
_______________________

So with Huds now officially out of the picture, how much cap space do the Wings have left? Every source I look at for cap numbers has a different number listed, so I'm confused. Are we talking like 1-2 mil? Or more like 3-4? Anybody know?

Also, is there a website that lists all the FA's still available, and doesn't include those already signed? TSN has a list of all the guys who have signed, and a list of every teams UFA's and RFA's prior to the FA period, but they don't have a list of just the remaining available FA's. Anybody know where I can find something like this?

edit: nevermind, sportsnet.ca has a good list. Although, upon further review, it doesn't seem to be entirely up to date, unfortunately.

What about bringing Jay Willie back? He could be a decent replacement for Sammy and they could probably afford him...

tets
07-11-2009, 04:25 PM
Ahh okay... yeah, that won't cut it in DET. Thx for the input Hamster. If that's a big problem for him then he definitely won't fit the Wings' style of play.
_______________________

So with Huds now officially out of the picture, how much cap space do the Wings have left? Every source I look at for cap numbers has a different number listed, so I'm confused. Are we talking like 1-2 mil? Or more like 3-4? Anybody know?

Also, is there a website that lists all the FA's still available, and doesn't include those already signed? TSN has a list of all the guys who have signed, and a list of every teams UFA's and RFA's prior to the FA period, but they don't have a list of just the remaining available FA's. Anybody know where I can find something like this?

edit: nevermind, sportsnet.ca has a good list. Although, upon further review, it doesn't seem to be entirely up to date, unfortunately.

What about bringing Jay Willie back? He could be a decent replacement for Sammy and they could probably afford him...

according to mlive.com, the wings have about 1.6 mil of cap space for next season.......it would have been nice to know that hudler was jumping ship sooner, holland might have been able to throw more money at sammy or hossa to get them to stay....tho it might not have mattered anyway

im excited to see the youngsters come up and play this season tho.....more energy and speed that detroit lacks most of the time during the regular season

dw13
07-16-2009, 12:40 PM
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/medvedev-says-khl-will-honor-nhl-decision-on-hudler/

KHL will void his contract if Detroit honors the arbitration award. Basically, they are not going to poach Hudler away from the NHL unless Detroit walks away from the arbitrator's decision.

New news to me, I don't know about anyone else.

Chilly_Willy
07-16-2009, 01:03 PM
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/medvedev-says-khl-will-honor-nhl-decision-on-hudler/

KHL will void his contract if Detroit honors the arbitration award. Basically, they are not going to poach Hudler away from the NHL unless Detroit walks away from the arbitrator's decision.

New news to me, I don't know about anyone else.

That is good news although I certainly don't think the KHL owes the NHL any favors but it in a nice move on their part.

Random thought, I feel bad for keeper leaugers that may have hudler or have had radulov. Now that players can bail to the KHL for more money (at least ocntractually) it adds a new dimention of risk to fantasy hockey for sure.

MrScientist
07-16-2009, 01:18 PM
That is good news although I certainly don't think the KHL owes the NHL any favors but it in a nice move on their part.

Random thought, I feel bad for keeper leaugers that may have hudler or have had radulov. Now that players can bail to the KHL for more money (at least ocntractually) it adds a new dimention of risk to fantasy hockey for sure.

Medvedev cited the Thrashers voiding Joel Kwiatkowski's contract since he was already signed with SKA St. Petersburg as helping.

Chilly_Willy
07-16-2009, 01:20 PM
Medvedev cited the Thrashers voiding Joel Kwiatkowski's contract since he was already signed with SKA St. Petersburg as helping.

Gottcha

What ever happened to Big Snake? Did he ever try out again for the wings or other nhl team?

http://www.brahmas.com/news/articles/index.html?article_id=685

MrScientist
07-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Gottcha

What ever happened to Big Snake? Is he still with the wings farm club lol!

Big Snake?

Chilly_Willy
07-16-2009, 01:31 PM
Big Snake?

I think back in 05 he tried out for the wings. He has a sort of native american back ground and is a tough customer from my understanding.

http://beanballinc.blogspot.com/2005/09/big-snake-update.html

MrScientist
07-16-2009, 01:39 PM
I remember hearing about him a couple of years ago, but I actually had no idea he is/was in our system

chgorman
07-16-2009, 01:43 PM
I remember hearing about him a couple of years ago, but I actually had no idea he is/was in our system

I don't think he is anymore. According to hockeydb.com, he only played 50 gms between two teams in 07-08, and none last yr (or if he did, it's not listed)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62616

Chilly_Willy
07-16-2009, 01:43 PM
I remember hearing about him a couple of years ago, but I actually had no idea he is/was in our system

Sorry I guess he never was in the system technically he just tried out. When I saw that jersey years back I thought he was in the farm system and kept waiting for him to get called up.

MrScientist
07-16-2009, 01:47 PM
Sorry I guess he never was in the system technically he just tried out. When I saw that jersey years back I thought he was in the farm system and kept waiting for him to get called up.

He's a stocky power forward...not the Wings' cup of tea :rolleyes:

Really, that's my only knock on the team. We need a guy similar to Lucic, Shanahan, etc. if we aren't going to use guys like Downey or McCarty.

two24four
07-16-2009, 02:16 PM
haha, Robin Big Snake, yeah I doubt you will ever see him play in the NHL for any team, he was just ok in the OHL, tough as nails thou.

Hockeyis#1
07-21-2009, 06:31 PM
He's a stocky power forward...not the Wings' cup of tea :rolleyes:

Really, that's my only knock on the team. We need a guy similar to Lucic, Shanahan, etc. if we aren't going to use guys like Downey or McCarty.

Like....Franzen?

chgorman
07-21-2009, 06:35 PM
I think he's talking about guys who would willingly fight when necessary. i.e. not Franzen. He's not a fighter.

MrScientist
07-21-2009, 07:58 PM
I think he's talking about guys who would willingly fight when necessary. i.e. not Franzen. He's not a fighter.

Bingo bango gang [/redmond]

Yeah, some guys that don't get knocked the fuck out when they fight would be nice (re: Lilja and Kopecky, not that we have to worry about Kop anymore)

chgorman
07-22-2009, 02:44 PM
NY Daily News puts Wings jersey #1 on list of 'Sports' All-Time Coolest Uniforms'

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/sports_alltime_greatest_uniforms/sports_alltime_greatest_uniforms.html#ph0

'Hawks, Habs, Rangers, Leafs and Nords all make the list.

alias
07-22-2009, 09:26 PM
NY Daily News puts Wings jersey #1 on list of 'Sports' All-Time Coolest Uniforms'

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/sports_alltime_greatest_uniforms/sports_alltime_greatest_uniforms.html#ph0

'Hawks, Habs, Rangers, Leafs and Nords all make the list.

personally I like the Hawks the best. it's all subjective anyways. no love for the other original 6 team the B's?

Chilly_Willy
07-22-2009, 10:05 PM
personally I like the Hawks the best. it's all subjective anyways. no love for the other original 6 team the B's?


I was just going to say kinda strange to throw in only 5 of the original 6 but bruins do have that yellow color that washes out your screen if its not high def the bear is so hard to make out as well unless the picture is really up close but the classic B's jersey is way cool. Those yellow bear jerseys, if its a high def broadcast on a non hidef TV forgetaboudit, get your sunglasses.

eykwingnut
07-23-2009, 11:05 PM
NY Daily News puts Wings jersey #1 on list of 'Sports' All-Time Coolest Uniforms'

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/sports_alltime_greatest_uniforms/sports_alltime_greatest_uniforms.html#ph0

'Hawks, Habs, Rangers, Leafs and Nords all make the list.
espn did this a few years ago with all sports, and the hawks took first with the wings in second. kind of cool when you think of how much more popular other sports are...

Hockeyis#1
07-24-2009, 12:00 AM
Bingo bango gang [/redmond]

Yeah, some guys that don't get knocked the fuck out when they fight would be nice (re: Lilja and Kopecky, not that we have to worry about Kop anymore)

Back a few years ago they picked up Bertuzzzi at the deadline. Would have liked to see them keep him.

chgorman
07-24-2009, 10:24 AM
Back a few years ago they picked up Bertuzzzi at the deadline. Would have liked to see them keep him.

He's still available, lol, UFA.

He's not the answer though, and I think he proved that in his time with DET. Too slow, too injury prone.

Plus, I didn't think he fought much anymore since the Moore incident... no? Maybe I just haven't heard of any of his recent fights :confused: I don't think he's really the type of player bolts is referring to anyway... at least not anymore, from a fighting/physicality aspect. That said, I haven't watched him much since he went to CGY, so CGY fans may know better.

This may sound crazy, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Shanny back if he was willing to drop 'em on a regular basis, but I think he's too old for that now.

MrScientist
07-24-2009, 11:02 AM
Yeah, gorman, I think it my original post about it I mentioned players such as Lucic and Shanny as the mold we need.

chgorman
07-24-2009, 11:28 AM
Yeah, gorman, I think it my original post about it I mentioned players such as Lucic and Shanny as the mold we need.

Yeah for sure, completely agree, Lucic right now, or Shanny in his prime (or a player of similar mold) would be a great addition. Unfortunately, Lucic is locked up, Shanny is too old to be fighting regularily, and I don't see too many other guys that fit that mold of player, who are availalable and also affordable. Gonna be interesting to see who they grab though to fill the 12th fwd spot. I wouldn't mind Grier or Axelsson. That's about the best they can afford right now.

Somebody mentioned Afin earlier in the thread, I think it was phaneuf6, and it's an interesting idea if he's got his head on straight and is willing to play for super cheap, but I'm just not sure it would be the best idea. It would make an already quick team just that much faster, but I'm not sure he would fit the system well, especially if he has some noticeable defensive shortcomings.

Tough to say. In Kenny I trust though, I'm sure he'll do whatever is best for the team given the players that are still available and the cap space he has to work with. I'd be very surprised if a D isn't traded to free up some cap $$.

MrScientist
07-24-2009, 11:46 AM
Yeah for sure, completely agree, Lucic right now, or Shanny in his prime (or a player of similar mold) would be a great addition. Unfortunately, Lucic is locked up, Shanny is too old to be fighting regularily, and I don't see too many other guys that fit that mold of player, who are availalable and also affordable. Gonna be interesting to see who they grab though to fill the 12th fwd spot. I wouldn't mind Grier or Axelsson. That's about the best they can afford right now.

Somebody mentioned Afin earlier in the thread, I think it was phaneuf6, and it's an interesting idea if he's got his head on straight and is willing to play for super cheap, but I'm just not sure it would be the best idea. It would make an already quick team just that much faster, but I'm not sure he would fit the system well, especially if he has some noticeable defensive shortcomings.

Tough to say. In Kenny I trust though, I'm sure he'll do whatever is best for the team given the players that are still available and the cap space he has to work with. I'd be very surprised if a D isn't traded to free up some cap $$.

I'm surprised Lilja hasn't been placed on long term IR, doesn't he come off the cap then?

chgorman
07-24-2009, 11:59 AM
I'm surprised Lilja hasn't been placed on long term IR, doesn't he come off the cap then?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd save his cap hit if on long term IR, but I'm guessing they don't know yet if he'll be on long term IR once the season rolls around. I'm sure if they knew that he was going to miss the entire season on long term IR, they'd put him there' but I'm guessing it's not that simple. He likely has to qualify for long term IR in some form, and maybe he's getting better and thus doesn't qualify? I dunno. Bottom line, I don't think they can go ahead and spend his cap $$ assuming he'll miss time, otherwise they probably would have signed Hudler. I have think Lilja's situation is still up in the air a bit. I would be interested to see/hear the latest report on him though. I know he was still feeling pretty rough throughout the playoffs. Not sure if he's gotten any better since then.

MrScientist
07-24-2009, 05:30 PM
Well Lilja's cap hit is $1.125 million, guys like Lebda and Meech are under a million...so I'm not really sure where the cap savings are gonna come from.

Hockeyis#1
07-24-2009, 09:20 PM
Somebody mentioned Afin earlier in the thread....but I'm not sure he would fit the system well, especially if he has some noticeable shortcomings in every aspect of his game.
fyp

two24four
08-06-2009, 10:31 AM
Red Wings bring back Jason Williams, nice signing.

chgorman
08-06-2009, 10:52 AM
Red Wings bring back Jason Williams, nice signing.

Not sure how I feel about this (there's a reason the Wings traded him away in the first place) but he should be a decent replacement for Sammy, as long as he can keep his attitude in check and can step up his defensive game a bit, maybe play with a little more physicality. He'll have to be willing to do those things (which he hasn't really been willing to do in the past) as he'll be on the 3rd line in all likelyhood, which requires a solid defensive presence and at least a bit of physicality. He'll get his offensive opportunities on the point on PP2.

Motorcat
08-06-2009, 11:06 AM
I see Patrick Eaves signed with the Wings.

I was really down on him in Carolina for most of the time he was here. He did step up his game on the defensive end towards the end of last year.

His lack of size and no scoring ability was why he became expendable.

Hot wife though - petite and perky with raven hair and pale blue eyes.

MrScientist
08-06-2009, 12:01 PM
I see Patrick Eaves signed with the Wings.

I was really down on him in Carolina for most of the time he was here. He did step up his game on the defensive end towards the end of last year.

His lack of size and no scoring ability was why he became expendable.

Hot wife though - petite and perky with raven hair and pale blue eyes.

Do you know her social security number too Motor? :lol:

For real though, Eaves will be a decent option, and he came cheap. Williams, up in the air.

Kyle
08-06-2009, 01:04 PM
Do you know her social security number too Motor? :lol:

For real though, Eaves will be a decent option, and he came cheap. Williams, up in the air.

I'm sure he knows the shoe size of every son and daughter associated with the canes organization over the last 15 years. Mans a true fan.:lol:

At the price, can't really complain about Eaves. People had to understand the Wing's depth this year couldn't look as good as last year but I'm still very optimistic heading into this season. Espicially if Helm continues to develop.

Chilly_Willy
08-06-2009, 01:31 PM
I think that Eves and Williams are great signings for the situtation. I think the difference between scoring from hudler and suamuleson to Eves and Williams will be negligable honestly and probably at a much less expensive cost. Ken Holand knows how to keep salary down without sacrificing too much talent and in some cases increasing the talent substancially. Loosing hossa is a big blow but some of the younger players showed they can be great playoff performers and its not like without hossa they are going to miss the playoffs. I also think people underestimate williams. If he can stay healthy he has a respectible PPG over last few seasons just can't stay healthy.

Cornholio
08-06-2009, 04:05 PM
That's what I think!
They have 13 forwards now, Abby can get more experience in Grand Rapids, what whould help him develop more than he would in Detroit on the 4th line. And they can recall him if somebody gets hurt.

Spartan
08-06-2009, 04:17 PM
That's what I think!
They have 13 forwards now, Abby can get more experience in Grand Rapids, what whould help him develop more than he would in Detroit on the 4th line. And they can recall him if somebody gets hurt.They are at 12 right now with $529,000 of cap space left. No problem for Kenny H.

Motorcat
08-06-2009, 09:51 PM
No social #'s or shoe sizes.

The reason I know about most of the wives - our season tickets in the lower bowl were a section away from where the Hurricanes family - mostly wives sat.


Thru pics from fund raisers and idle chat with other fans in the section you would quickly begin to recognize who was whose wife.


Whitney's wife - Bridgette. I thought was hands down the best but most of my buddies liked Bayda's wife. Bridgette Whitney a long tall slender brunette that would always be wearing boots with the spiked heels.

Bayda's wife - young little tiny blond that.

Staals' wife another blonde is not shabby at all ....and Emily Cole - well if you like strawberry blonde red heads you will absolutely fall in love at first sight.

Brind Amour also has an amazing GF - brunette, physically fit and appears in her late 20's.