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chgorman
10-17-2015, 10:08 PM
What a game! looked like playoff hockey. Score is deceiving. That was a tight game. Mrazek and Price were awesome.

Still don't really understand how MTL's first goal wasn't goalie interference (incidental contact) and/or why Blash didn't challenge it, but whatevs, still a great game!

Kyle
10-18-2015, 02:14 AM
Frustrating game. These 2x1 shot totals are getting despicable. I don't think it was as close as you did. Mrazek had to be way too good to keep Detroit in the game, and you suggest Price was just as strong, but I didn't see Detroit test him half as much as Mrazek was tested. There were lots of quality chances by Detroit but hardly half as many as Montreal. That makes 3 out of 5 games now Detroit has just generously handed over quality scoring chances all game long. Two of them where they got blatantly outplayed by the Hurricanes of all teams. Gotta clean it up majorly - Blashil has the team scoring again but the discipline and structured hockey hasn't been there yet this year.

The team picked up right where they left off in the regular season last year - just pathetic defense and constantly wasting good efforts by the goalies.

Detroit's average shot differential through 5 games? -12. That's 60 more shots against than shots for in 5 games. That's basically an automatic goal a game given up via just shots allowed. Even if Detroit is dramatically better and produces far better chances, getting outshot 20-40 will almost always result in a losing scoreline. It's too many chances for the opposition to land a lucky bounce and no chances for the Wings to do the same.

Detroit needs Datsyuk and Helm so much

Kyle
10-22-2015, 01:17 AM
The team has been rough for 3 games! Talk about a worst case scenario after a 3-0 start. Not just 3 losses - 3 bad ones.

Kyle
10-28-2015, 12:53 AM
Well, fuck. The Wings are kind of average.

Datsyuks return can't come soon enough. The Hurricanes would be nearly last place if they didn't get to play the Wings 3 times - they won 2 and should've won the 3rd one. They've only won 1 other game in 6. Not flattering for Detroit.

Growing pains had to be expected with Blashill, I suppose. That 3 game win streak to open the season probably just flared up expectations a bit.

chgorman
10-28-2015, 07:02 AM
Doesn't help that Green, Richards and Quincey are all out. Not that any of then have done a lot this season, but Richards is still better than Jurco/Andersson, Quincey is better than Marchenko and Green is better than Kindl. Not saying they would've made a massive difference, but may have been the boost they needed to beat CAR at least.

And keep in mind, all three CAR goals were basically gifted to them. Can't blame anybody but Mrazek on the first one. Jurco shit the bed on the 2nd, and the 3rd was EN. Those things won't happen every game. Still no excuse, but just saying that those fluky goals won't happen all that often.

But yeah, definitely not a great start, expectations need to be lowered. New faces on and behind the bench are still adjusting, existing faces on and behind the bench are still adjusting to the new faces, Datsyuk is a massive loss, already had a few other key injuries, etc. At least the goaltending has been solid.

Kyle
10-29-2015, 01:31 AM
Agreed on all points Chg

Kyle
11-06-2015, 10:47 PM
I hate seeing Detroit in last place in shots per game and 29th place in shots allowed per game, with by far the worst differential at nearly -8. I've never had any respect for teams that win with those box scores, and almost every time I've seen it catch up to them when it mattered. Hopefully the team figures it out before then. Get back Datsyuk!

Doctego
11-09-2015, 06:43 PM
What's up with Mike Green? I know he was hurt but I'm debating dropping Leddy for him. Both have been unspectacular to date. Is he worth an add to you guys?

chgorman
11-09-2015, 07:43 PM
He's still getting used to the new system/teammates/coaching staff, and the two week injury hasn't helped him at all. He seemed to be doing alright before he got hurt, aside from not producing many points.

I'd probably pick him up if he's available, but I wouldn't expect a lot fantasy wise for at least a few weeks, until he gets more comfortable.

Kyle
11-11-2015, 03:09 PM
Mrazek stopped 16 shots by Ovy last night. Get the guy an ice pack.

chgorman
11-11-2015, 05:31 PM
Stellar performance by Mrazek. Was a fun game to watch despite the low score.

Kyle
11-20-2015, 09:20 PM
The Kings are absolutely having their way with Detroit. I can't stand constantly seeing this team skating backwards and chasing the puck in their own zone. The Wings are beyond fortunate to be up 3-2 through 2 periods, mostly thanks to Mrazek.

chgorman
11-20-2015, 10:39 PM
and Larkin.

Kyle
11-20-2015, 10:41 PM
Agreed. Lucky win. I hope Larkin/Dekeyser are okay. Hopefully Datsyuk has the rust shaken off by now.

chgorman
11-24-2015, 12:50 PM
Wings' Stadium series jerseys are damn sharp!

For a team that has never strayed away from a very "classic" looking jersey style (even for past Winter Classics) - which is almost always a good thing IMO - I think this is an awesome change. Love the more modern look, which I didn't think I would.

Sounds like they're going to be wearing white gloves with these jerseys. not sure how I feel about that.

(sorry, it's been so long since I embedded an image, i forget how, but this link should work)

red-wings-stadium-series-jerseys-54dc844bde76150d.jpg (http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width620/img/redwings_impact/photo/red-wings-stadium-series-jerseys-54dc844bde76150d.jpg)

Hamsterkill
11-24-2015, 02:17 PM
Wings' Stadium series jerseys are damn sharp!

For a team that has never strayed away from a very "classic" looking jersey style (even for past Winter Classics) - which is almost always a good thing IMO - I think this is an awesome change. Love the more modern look, which I didn't think I would.

Sounds like they're going to be wearing white gloves with these jerseys. not sure how I feel about that.

(sorry, it's been so long since I embedded an image, i forget how, but this link should work)

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width620/img/redwings_impact/photo/red-wings-stadium-series-jerseys-54dc844bde76150d.jpg

You can either enclose it in IMG tags or use the Insert Image button on the controls.

Kyle
12-13-2015, 06:10 AM
This can safely be called the most unimpressive 13 game point streak in NHL history. I'm not buying it, but the potential is certainly there with the quality Howard/Mrazek have been playing. If Datsyuk can become Datsyuk, look out.

chgorman
12-14-2015, 08:48 AM
This can safely be called the most unimpressive 13 game point streak in NHL history. I'm not buying it, but the potential is certainly there with the quality Howard/Mrazek have been playing. If Datsyuk can become Datsyuk, look out.

Agreed. They can be so much better offensively and defensively. Goaltending is the only thing holding them in these games during this 'streak'. If they can start getting consistent production at both ends of the ice from the fwds and D, they'll be a serious contender going forward.

Kyle
12-15-2015, 04:49 PM
You know a point streak is fraudulent when it ends to the fucking Sabres. :lol:

Hamsterkill
12-15-2015, 05:36 PM
You know a point streak is fraudulent when it ends to the fucking Sabres. :lol:
:lol: Though I'm compelled to point out that Buffalo is no longer the joke team the were last season.

Kyle
12-16-2015, 04:07 PM
Definitely not. They're even a darkhorse playoff possibility. The O'Reily line was real good vs Detroit.

chgorman
01-11-2016, 09:01 AM
So, with Mrazek absolutely on fire, having played consistently well for over a month now and getting most starts, should the Wings start looking at the possibility of moving Jimmy for cap relief/pieces to help elsewhere, or hold on as insurance?

IMO, keep him for the rest of the year just in case, since they don't really have a viable backup in the system who is ready, unless they're blown away by an offer that includes a backup in return. Plus, his value probably isn't great right now. Hopefully he can turn it around sooner than later and help the team, or at least raise his value back up a bit.

Doctego
01-11-2016, 03:35 PM
At a cap hit of almost $5.3M for 3 more years, they better be prepared to eat a nice chunk or take a shitty contract in return.

chgorman
01-11-2016, 03:45 PM
yeah, I think they'd need to find a team to trade with that either A) is a contender for the playoffs, loses it's starter to long term injury, doesn't have a suitable starter currently on their roster, and is desperate for a seasoned, NHL quality starter with playoff experience, or B) a team close to the cap floor who needs to add some salary and has a need for decent starter moving forward.

I'm not sure if any teams fit into either of those categories, and regardless, DET should probably hold off on doing anything until at least the offseason, in case Mrazek is injured or has to miss time in the meantime.

Hamsterkill
01-11-2016, 04:50 PM
I don't think there's any floor teams this year. Most playoff teams wouldn't have room unless you take a sizable contract or eat some of Howard's salary. Arizona might be your best bet if they lose confidence in Smith or he gets hurt. They have a lot of cap space, playoff position, and no tested backup in place.

two24four
01-11-2016, 09:55 PM
Arizona has Louis Domingue who has been playing great. Some think he might keep playing when Smith is back. They might have their future goalie in Domingue.

Hamsterkill
01-11-2016, 11:08 PM
Arizona has Louis Domingue who has been playing great. Some think he might keep playing when Smith is back. They might have their future goalie in Domingue.

I find it unlikely that he's someone the Coyotes would want to rely on in the playoffs this year.

Doctego
01-11-2016, 11:18 PM
I find it unlikely that he's someone the Coyotes would want to rely on in the playoffs this year.

Maybe. Maybe not. If they're realistic, neither he nor Howard would get them very far anyway.

two24four
01-12-2016, 02:46 PM
I don't think ARI had planned on making the playoffs this season, if they make it I think they will be more than happy with that. I doubt they want to give whatever away that the Wings would be asking for Howard. Howard will also be 32 in March. If they make it they should let Domingue get some playoff games in. Smith should be back by then as well. Never say never though I guess.

Side note, Arizona has by far the best prospects coming of any team. Strome, Perlini, MacInnins, Dvorak, Karlsson, Merkley, Garland. Add them to players already on the roster, Boedker, Domi, Duclair, Ekman-Larsson, Domingue, Rieder etc....

Hamsterkill
01-12-2016, 03:00 PM
Oh I never meant to suggest that they are or should look into getting Howard -- merely that I consider them the team most likely able and potentially wanting to trade for Howard ("best bet").

If it looks like Smith will be hurt for the playoffs (I honestly didn't realize he was currently hurt) or they don't have confidence in him, I could see them looking to acquire a veteran goalie. No team wants to go into the playoffs with a netminder as untested as Domingue starting. That's all I was saying.

I agree that they probably didn't figure on making the playoffs this year (I actually think they were looking forward to being in the Matthews sweepstakes, being a homegrown superstar), but any year you're in position, you gotta go for it, I figure -- especially with Doan so close to retirement. I think they'll be buyers at the deadline.

two24four
01-12-2016, 03:06 PM
Yeah they very well could be buyers, but if I was them I wouldn't sell the farm unless they get offered someone they cant turn down.

I bet they want Matthews bad. What would be better for them marketing wise then a local kid.

chgorman
01-23-2016, 09:52 PM
Well that was the most poorly officiated game I've seen in a while. Ducks can thank the refs for that one.

Kyle
01-24-2016, 06:43 PM
Yup. Incredibly lucky win for that sorry Anaheim squad.

WIS
02-03-2016, 02:52 PM
What do you guys think of Dekeyser? What are his point projections? I'm thinking of dropping Green and taking him instead.

chgorman
02-05-2016, 12:16 AM
Wings' PP is so weak right now. Hard to watch.

edit: I know they got two PPGs last night, but for the most part it looked awful, especially early on. They really need Kron back.


What do you guys think of Dekeyser? What are his point projections? I'm thinking of dropping Green and taking him instead.

I'd keep Green over DeKeyser. Neither of them are doing very well but Green has way more offensive upside than DeKy.

Kyle
02-06-2016, 03:21 PM
Green easily. DeKeyser is better but not for fantasy. He gets next to zero offensive opportunities (Dekeyser I mean). Green not only plays more minutes, but plays all the offensive minutes and none of the defensive minutes (Which we all know is much more exhausting to play defense than offense). I would not expect that to change or Dekeyster to consistently score this year, you just can't be an elite offensive D-man without powerplay time.

chgorman
02-09-2016, 08:50 AM
So when do we throw Mrazek's name into the hat for the Vezina? He's #1 in the NHL in GAA and Sv%, only Jake Allen and Corey Crawford have more shutouts than he does, if he didn't have to spend the first half of the season splitting starts with Jimmy, he'd probably be close to or over 30 wins (Holtby leads the league with 33 wins playing behind a better team) and Petr is pretty much the only (or at least the main) reason why the Wings are still in a playoff spot, as they haven't been great elsewhere on the ice.

I know it'll probably come down to Holtby or Crawford, with Holtby likely taking it, but is it time that Mrazek gets a mention for the Vezina, at the very least?

Dubz
02-09-2016, 11:18 AM
It really is too bad he didnt take over earlier. My girl is a Wings fan but she loves Howard. Been telling her all year and finally she is tongue tied when i bring up the subject. Perhaps its good they took the time to "break him in" But in all honesty i think that was done in the playoffs last year. Regardless you guys got a good one there....maybe Vezina talks next year?

chgorman
02-09-2016, 01:24 PM
Gonna have to find somebody who can make up a Mrazek sig pic for me, haha

I still like Jimmy, he seems to be handling this situation with pure class, and if he end up getting moved somewhere else eventually, I really do hope he's successful for the rest of his NHL career, but it's pretty clear that Mrazek is the present and the future for this team in goal, so I think it's time for me to retire the Howie sig pic.

And Dubs - agreed re: "breaking him in" in the playoffs last year. Hindsight being 20/20, Mrazek probably should've started the season as the starter after the way he finished last season and played against TB in the playoffs, but gotta be fair to Jimmy and give him a shot to redeem himself, especially since they're paying him 5mil a yr. Howie was playing really well for the first two months of the season, but then his play dropped WAY off. I think Blash handled it the right way, and if anything, not having Mrazek start so many games early in the season might help keep him slightly fresher for the stretch run and playoffs.

toronto1979
02-09-2016, 02:05 PM
If the Leafs can flip Bernier out I'd see Babs suggesting Howard as a replacement.

But finding a Bernier buyer is unlikely.

chgorman
02-09-2016, 02:16 PM
If the Leafs can flip Bernier out I'd see Babs suggesting Howard as a replacement.

But finding a Bernier buyer is unlikely.

Certainly not impossible, and I could very well be way off base here, but I kinda got the feeling that Babs wasn't a big fan of Jimmy. The Leafs could maybe use him as a short term stop-gap solution for a few yrs while they draft/develop their goalie of the future, or try to trade for or sign a bonafide long-term #1 guy, but I don't really see Howard as their "goalie of the future".

I haven't really followed Bernier or the Leafs in general much recently... would Jimmy even be much of an upgrade over him? If the Leafs are in lose-now mode, and Bernier is accomplishing that for them, I don't really see any reason for them to make a switch, especially if Bernier is cheaper (not sure if he is or isn't).

two24four
02-09-2016, 03:45 PM
The thing with Howard when it comes to the Leafs is he will be 32 in March. By the time the Leafs are ready to win he will be 36/37. Not sure they would do that, but who knows.

Dubz
02-09-2016, 04:59 PM
They will probably lock up Reimer for 3-5 yrs and move on from Bernier next season. Hopefully the two kids we have will be prepping by that time. I dont see Howard as a good fit in TO.

Kyle
02-09-2016, 06:21 PM
The thing with Howard when it comes to the Leafs is he will be 32 in March. By the time the Leafs are ready to win he will be 36/37. Not sure they would do that, but who knows.

It wouldn't be the world's dumbest move. We've seen goalies somehow discover their best form in their mid-upper 30's.

Chg, I agree, he deserves serious Vezina consideration. The difference between his and Howard's last 10 games is mind-boggling.

chgorman
02-10-2016, 10:51 PM
Another stellar performance by Mrazek tonight. Too bad Ericsson had to go and ruin the SO.

Dubz
02-11-2016, 01:33 PM
Ya he fd that play up. All he had to do was smash it up the boards. Karlsson was off the board....it was an easy out. Bonehead!!

Doctego
02-14-2016, 10:41 PM
Did Nyquist get hurt or did he just not play much today because he's been sucking?

Kyle
02-15-2016, 02:08 AM
Not sure, I was busy this afternoon and had to rely on highlights. Nyquist has been a major disappointment this year.

Datsyuk has been a man possessed his last 5 games. Finally.

chgorman
02-21-2016, 11:42 PM
Wings were very lucky to get 2 pts out of the past two games. Haven't looked very good for 5 or 6 games now. Better turn this around soon.

Kyle
02-24-2016, 02:25 AM
No fucking clue how the ref lets Jenner skate on with the puck before the first goal, when the only possible way he could've beaten Marchenko to the puck was to hold him (Which the replay clearly shows Jenners left hand leave his stick, grab Marchenko, YANK him off balance, and then cut him off to steal the puck). Good thing it cost Det nothing.

Also, just God-awful officiating on the quick-whistle to freeze Mrazek's puck. Fucking silly and pointless in a 3 on 3 situation thats utterly harmless to a goalie. We don't ever need a quick whistle in OT. Dumb shit tonight for sure.

chgorman
02-24-2016, 08:13 AM
Agreed on all counts. The quick whistle on the Mrazek breakaway pass to Dats in OT was particularly infuriating, not only for the reason you listed, but because it was brutally clear and obvious that Mrazek was going to try to move that puck the moment it touched his glove.

Regardless of the refs though, Wings are playing some ugly-assed hockey right now. They did not deserve that win last night. They're just lucky that the Jackets missed so many wide open nets. I'm glad that they're still able to put some points up in the standings despite this recent stretch of bad play, but they need to fix some glaring issues right away. Firstly and most importantly, cut down on the turnovers. The whole team. Its not just the 3rd/4th liners and 3rd D pair, it's everyone. I've never ever seen Zetts - in particular - turn the puck over this often. It's mind boggling, especially because he's usually so awesome at protecting the puck. Last 4-5 games, he's had multiple brutal turnover each game. They also need to do something to avoid having shots blocked so often, while also hitting the net more when they are able to avoid shot blocks and/or have open looks at the net. Way too many shots missing the net, way too many shots blocked by the opposing team. Among other issues.

Kyle
02-24-2016, 08:45 AM
Z has been half there all year. He's having his worst season of his entire career by far. His back issues have claimed him and we can only hope he inches a tiny bit closer to his usual self come playoff time, but in reality with his back and the physical nature of playoff hockey, he might actually be less useful then.

At least Datsyuk still looks like he has it in him, although he's had an off-year clearly as well, I would say it's reasonable to at least hope he can become as good as ever come playoff time. But Zetterberg just looks so astoundingly slow and weak this year.

chgorman
02-26-2016, 09:54 AM
Anybody know if the Wing/Avs alumni game will be broadcast online anywhere tonight for free? I know it's going to be on FS Detroit, but a) I don't have cable and b) even if I did, I don't think I'd be able to get FS Detroit as I live in Canada, so I'm looking for a free online feed. Anybody aware of any? I'd really like to see this game, even though it's meaningless.

two24four
02-26-2016, 11:11 AM
Anybody know if the Wing/Avs alumni game will be broadcast online anywhere tonight for free? I know it's going to be on FS Detroit, but a) I don't have cable and b) even if I did, I don't think I'd be able to get FS Detroit as I live in Canada, so I'm looking for a free online feed. Anybody aware of any? I'd really like to see this game, even though it's meaningless.


It will be on Sportsnet Ontario tonight.

Edit: Whoops. Just saw you don't have cable. My bad.

Dubz
02-26-2016, 02:00 PM
Take the wife out for a beer Gorms

chgorman
02-26-2016, 04:00 PM
Good idea Dubz. Except I'd like to be able to hear it, and that likely won't happen with background noise at the bar and the wife in my ear all night. Solid backup plan though.

Dubz
02-26-2016, 07:36 PM
Do you have an android box?

chgorman
02-26-2016, 09:58 PM
was able to find a decent feed with a quick google search.

Great game despite the score. Both teams were playing hard!

Seeing the smile on Stevie's face after he scored gave me chills. So many memories.

Really too bad that Oz and Feds weren't able to play.

Dubz
02-27-2016, 11:09 AM
Ya it was fun to watch. The interviews were the highlights for sure. First thing missing was Osgood.....i think the score would have been different if he was in there. Roy was the fantastic. Funny how they were throwing some hits and even cross checking (softly lol)

chgorman
02-27-2016, 11:55 AM
haha, yeah, that's what I mean, both teams were playing hard, a little more physical than your typical Alumni/Old-Timers game. Neither team wanted to lose.

Billington made some nice saves for COL too. Conklin and Legace were terrible. Even Vernon probably woulda been better than either of those two, haha

chgorman
02-28-2016, 11:23 PM
HUGE fan of the uni's the Wings wore yesterday. Would love to see those more often. And Mrazek's gear (especially mask) was awesome.

chgorman
03-14-2016, 10:09 AM
That was, without question, the ugliest game of hockey I've ever watched.

two24four
03-14-2016, 01:48 PM
I see Mantha has been called up for his first NHL game.

chgorman
03-15-2016, 12:57 PM
I see Mantha has been called up for his first NHL game.

Yeah, he's been doing pretty well in GR, I'm excited to see how he does.

At the same time, I kinda question the timing of this. On one hand, they can't be any worse than they were against the Buds on Saturday, and it's not like guys like Pulkinnen and Jurco are doing anything to earn their playing time, but Helm is coming back tonight, meaning somebody else has to sit for Mantha to get into the lineup (likely both Pulki and Jurco), and more importantly, they're playing PHI in Philly tonight in both teams' biggest game of the year so far, with PHI only 3 pts behind in the race for the final WC spot, with PHI having 2 gms in hand. So they're basically throwing an untested rookie Mantha right into the fire, with his first career NHL gm also being the Wings' (and Philly's) biggest game of the season so far.

Like I say, the Wings can't be any worse than they were on Saturday, and I really want to see what Mantha is able to do in an NHL game, but at the same time, I'm just not sure that this is the game they should be inserting him into the lineup when they could wait until Thursday @CBJ or later in the wk @FLA.

Looks like he lined up with Dats and Tats at practice today. Kinda like the look of that line. Dats will help compensate for some of Mantha's defensive inefficiencies and should be able to set him up for a decent scoring chance or two.

One thing is for sure, this is a must win for both teams, so should be a good battle. Wings usually aren't very good in Philly, which scares me, but hopefully they come with their A game tonight.

Dubz
03-16-2016, 07:33 AM
uhoh

chgorman
03-16-2016, 08:37 AM
yeah...

On the bright side, Mantha looked decent. Really too bad his stick broke on that clapper from the circle. That was a pretty decent scoring chance.

Kyle
03-16-2016, 10:39 AM
Chg I'm proud of you for giving a fuck at this point. This team is so horrendously shitty. Only playoff team with a negative differential, -20 from the next closest playoff team, and it really could even be a lot worse if Mrazek wasn't superhuman for awhile there.

This is just by far the worst the Wings have looked in the rebuild era. I'll snap out of this funk come playoff time (If there is a playoff to worry about for Detroit) but as far as this season goes? I've basically checked out. Hard to even watch Wings games this year, not just cause the team sucks, but because the hockey has become so boring and ugly.

chgorman
03-16-2016, 11:39 AM
Chg I'm proud of you for giving a fuck at this point. This team is so horrendously shitty. Only playoff team with a negative differential, -20 from the next closest playoff team, and it really could even be a lot worse if Mrazek wasn't superhuman for awhile there.

This is just by far the worst the Wings have looked in the rebuild era. I'll snap out of this funk come playoff time (If there is a playoff to worry about for Detroit) but as far as this season goes? I've basically checked out. Hard to even watch Wings games this year, not just cause the team sucks, but because the hockey has become so boring and ugly.

Yeah, I'll always give a fuck because I just can't bring myself to not give a fuck, but my expectations are super low. I know that even if they make the playoffs (unlikely given the way they've been playing for the past month), they won't win a single game of playoff hockey playing the way they're playing.

It's kinda funny, for the past 3 or 4 yrs (including this season), my Dad has been saying screw the playoff streak, the team needs to miss the playoffs and get and early draft pick for once, and i've always just brushed it off because I'm proud of the streak, want it to continue, and I know anything can happen come playoff time (i.e. if the Wings had've beat Tampa last season, I think they would at least gone to the ECF). But I'm starting to come around to his way of thinking. What's the point in fighting hard for a playoff spot just to keep the streak alive when you know there's no chance in hell that you'll make it past the 1st round, or even win a single playoff game, when you can instead miss the playoffs and at least have a chance (however slim it may be) at getting a top 5-10 pick in the draft.

As much as I'd like to see the streak continue and don't want it to fall on Blashill's shoulders if they don't make it, I'm starting to to believe that it may actually be in the team's best interests to miss the playoffs for once. Never thought I'd say that, but there it is.

I'd say this is by far the worst the Wings have looked since the Dead Things era of the late 70's/early 80's. I've never seen them this sloppy in the defensive zone, give up so many easy goals, turn the puck over this often in all three zones, have so many shots blocked or miss the net in the offensive zone, miss on so many prime scoring chances, or look this discombobulated for as long as I can remember. I agree, it's just really ugly hockey. I was at the Joe for the game on Saturday and I was losing my mind at how bad the hockey was overall. The Wings were atrocious, the Leafs nearly as bad, but at least Toronto has an excuse. I think the Wings finished with 38 shots on goal that game, but I'm pretty sure 35 of those 38 hit Bernier in the crest on his jersey, and I've never seen a team - especially a wings team - turn the puck over that often in a single game... that is until the 1st period of last night's gm. I didn't think it could get any worse than Saturday's game, but low and behold, they got shit stomped by PHI in that first period. At one point the shots were 16-2 for philly 10 mins into the first. extrapolated over a full 60 minute game, that's the equivalent of being outshot 96-12. The Wings obviously picked it up after that while PHI seemingly relaxed after the 1st, but if not for Mrazek, PHI could've (and probably should've) easily had 5+ goals in the first period alone. Pretty sad when your tender lets in 4 and is still easily your #1 star for the game.

Kyle
03-16-2016, 02:33 PM
I agree completely. It goes way beyond records and stats, it's just an on-ice product we haven't seen since Yzerman made the team relevant in the late 80's. I have no interest in testing the Wing's changes to pull off a miracle this year, I'd rather get into true rebuild mode and figure this thing out.

Kyle
03-28-2016, 12:26 AM
This march has been a flat-out disaster. How they're only 5-7 so far, is shocking to me. Feels more like 3-9 because they've looked bad even when they win some nights. And when they've lost, they''ve looked horrendous at times.

Larkin's 3 goals and 5 pts in 21 games is alarming. Also, that +/- bullshit flew way out the window, as he's been -11 in that stretch too. That said, its an issue secondary to the Wing's defensive woes. The Wings just can't stop shit...43 goals allowed the last 12 games.

chgorman
03-28-2016, 07:27 AM
yep, just flat out playing bad hockey right now, an have been for the past number of months. As you mentioned earlier, Mrazek's stellar play through Dec to mid-Feb really covered up a lot of bad play by the rest of the team for a while, but now that he's come back to earth and the rest of the team hasn't picked up the slack, we're seeing that the Wings never really were a contender at any point, and were simply being propped up by great goaltending through the middle of the season.

It seems like Abby and AA are the only ones who actually give a shit on a consistent basis. Maybe Smith too. Everyone else just seems to be going through the motions at this point. Even 5 yrs ago, you could blame age and exhaustion for a late season swoon, but the Wings are far too young now (for the most part) to blame age/exhaustion. They just flat out suck right now.

Dubz
03-29-2016, 07:18 PM
Not looking any better tonight against the Habs

chgorman
03-29-2016, 09:56 PM
yup. Fugly. So sloppy.

Kyle
04-08-2016, 07:17 AM
lol, just when you think they might possibly be salvaging some sort of late-season spark with an extremely strong win vs Philly, and just when Jimmy Howard seemed poise to be "the guy" going into the playoffs, they do this vs Boston, and we're right back to thinking the same damn thing about the team this year. They get it done at their best, but they're embarrassing at their worst, and we've seen way too much of the later from the Wings this year.

chgorman
04-08-2016, 07:57 AM
Agreed. Granted, it was the second of a B2B set, in Boston, after playing less than 20 hrs prior in DET, and they probably spent themselves vs. PHI the night before while Boston was rested, but still, needed a better effort from everyone in what was their biggest game of the yr.

Again, AA seemed like the only one who gave a crap last night. Really not sure why he doesn't get more ice time, as he seems to make things happen every time he's on the ice. Also not sure why they took Mantha out in order to put in Jurco. Jurco has been a disaster all season and a huge disappointment overall. Martha has shown more in 10 gms than Jurco has shown in his career.

Have no idea what to expect or which team will show up in NY on Saturday. Sounds like the Rags don't really have much to play for, so maybe they'll rest some of their key guys, but obviously can't count on that. If the Wings play like they did last night, they don't deserve to be in the playoffs. If they can play more like they did vs. PHI on a consistent basis then they could actually make some noise in the playoffs, but as you said, those types of efforts seem to be few and far between, so I'm not holding out much hope.

I wonder who gets the start in goal on Saturday? I'd lean towards Mrazek as he's probably a little fresher than Jimmy right now, and he'll be motivated to perform after riding the pine for the past couple weeks. I know he's been in a bit of a tailspin the past month or so, but after last night's game, I'm not sure they can really count on a big game from Jimmy either.

Dubz
04-08-2016, 09:58 AM
Good Luck...im pullling for them to keep that streak alive.

EDIT - Easy to say it now but Mrazek should have got that start

chgorman
04-08-2016, 11:10 AM
Good Luck...im pullling for them to keep that streak alive.

EDIT - Easy to say it now but Mrazek should have got that start

Hindsight being 20/20, I agree, but it woulda been tough for Blash to justify starting Mrazek to Jimmy, the rest of the team, the fans and the media, given how well Jimmy had been playing and how lousy Mrazek has been recently.

Dubz
04-08-2016, 02:07 PM
Haha...who starts the next game is the big question now. I feel B2B would have been justifiable reasoning to start Mrazek last game. Looks like they have good odds to make the show.

Doctego
04-08-2016, 09:46 PM
Would you guys have the balls to start Raanta against them tomorrow?

Dubz
04-08-2016, 11:00 PM
Haha guy comes in the Wings thread and asks if they are gonna lose and miss the playoffs for the first time in 25 years.

chgorman
04-09-2016, 06:35 AM
Would you guys have the balls to start Raanta against them tomorrow?

I assume you mean for fantasy purposes?

If so, that's a really tough call. Depends what you need i.e. a win, GAA, Sv%, maybe all three? On one hand, Wings aren't scoring many goals, so even if they win, Raanta will likely have a decent GAA and save %. On the other hand, I believe the Rangers don't really have anything to play for so they may go with a skeleton crew for the game and rest some of their better guys, and I've heard that they're not playing very well recently in general, so there's potential for a blowout.

I wouldn't count on a win from Raanta regardless of how bad the Wings were last game (and for the past couple months in general), but I think there's a decent chance you'll get a solid GAA and Sv% from him. That said, I'm terrible at predicting this kind of stuff, so don't take my word for it.

If you're asking if the Rangers should start him (i.e. real life), then yes, assuming they don't have anything to play for. Give Lundy a little more rest and eliminate the possibility of injury in a meaningless game.

Doctego
04-09-2016, 08:04 AM
Haha guy comes in the Wings thread and asks if they are gonna lose and miss the playoffs for the first time in 25 years.

Yes I did, although I didn't necessarily ask if they'll lose. I like the overall objectiveness of this thread. I wouldn't mind a 1-0 Detroit shootout win for my fantasy team, regardless of what it would do to Philly.

Thanks, gorman. I was talking about for fantasy purposes. The Rangers have been playing like shit. The Wings have been playing very inconsistent. It's more of a feel for how the Wings will come out but, in reality, nobody knows.

chgorman
04-09-2016, 09:16 AM
Yes I did, although I didn't necessarily ask if they'll lose. I like the overall objectiveness of this thread. I wouldn't mind a 1-0 Detroit shootout win for my fantasy team, regardless of what it would do to Philly.

Thanks, gorman. I was talking about for fantasy purposes. The Rangers have been playing like shit. The Wings have been playing very inconsistent. It's more of a feel for how the Wings will come out but, in reality, nobody knows.

Exactly. Impossible to tell. I thought they'd start a little slow vs. BOS (it being the 2nd of a B2B on the road) and then turn it on halfway through the 1st once they got their legs and really take it to Boston (given how important that game was), but they never really showed up all game, in the biggest game of the yr for them. I would hope the Wings would be fired up for this one and come out blazing, but who really knows with this year's Wings team. So inconsistent, so unpredictable. It really is a crapshoot trying to figure out which team will show up on any given night.

Also, not directly related, but looks like Jimmy is starting, for anyone who is still wondering. I question if this is the right move, but Mrazek hasn't really inspired much confidence lately either, so who knows. Regardless, I feel like Blash will be quick with the hook if Jimmy struggles early.

chgorman
04-10-2016, 05:58 AM
Yes I did, although I didn't necessarily ask if they'll lose. I like the overall objectiveness of this thread. I wouldn't mind a 1-0 Detroit shootout win for my fantasy team, regardless of what it would do to Philly.

Thanks, gorman. I was talking about for fantasy purposes. The Rangers have been playing like shit. The Wings have been playing very inconsistent. It's more of a feel for how the Wings will come out but, in reality, nobody knows.

Did you start Raanta, Doc? Looks like he put up some decent numbers for ya, if you did.

Terrible way for the wings to get into the dance, backing in like that, losing but getting in anyway with the BOS loss, but they're in and the streak is alive, so I guess I can't really complain.

I don't see the Wings winning a series in the playoffs considering the way they've been playing recently, but with TB missing Stammer and now possibly Johnson as well, I could see DET maybe winning a a game or two vs. TB.

Doctego
04-10-2016, 08:27 AM
I did end up starting him. I was starting to get excited about the prospects of a shutout but the Wings peppered him in the 2nd. Lucky goal to tie it at 1 but that 2nd goal late scared me. He still put up good numbers and, combined with me starting Luongo against Carolina, really helped things.

Detroit definitely backed in but Tampa is a mess right now. For that reason, I give Detroit a good chance of winning the series.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/25549317/red-wings-pavel-datsyuk-confirms-he-is-leaving-the-nhl-after-season

Ouch. I had heard the rumors but this will hurt, from leadership, to talent, to salary cap room. That sucks for you guys and the league.

chgorman
04-10-2016, 08:42 PM
Gonna be a huge loss. In his prime, I'd say a top 3 player overall in the NHL, all facets considered. He's no longer a top 3 player in the NHL, but he's still the best player on the team IMO, and will be sorely missed. Said the same thing about Calvin and the Lions - won't be the same watching Wings games without Dats. Such a treat to watch.

chgorman
04-15-2016, 11:22 PM
Wings are done. They *might* win a game if they start Mrazek in one of the next two, but they're not winning more than one game in this series. They're terrible as a whole and Jimmy looks lost out there for the most part.

Imagine if Tampa had Stralman and Stamkos healthy, ha ha.

Kyle
04-16-2016, 01:17 PM
Thing is, TB has been every bit as "okay" as they were supposed to be without those two.

Unfortunately, just "okay" play is enough to make the Wings look bad most nights, especially when its combined with Anaheim-like bullying that I've NEVER seen work so effectively on the Wings. No matter how soft, weak, pansy-ass this team has been referred to in the past, they have never been so inept in the face of physical bullying as they've been the last two nights.

The only person mentally and physically equipped to hang on our entire roster is Abs and I think he's so furious at the lack of drive surrounding him it's caused him to totally lose his composure. He's like a grown man trying to fight a war with a bunch of fucking kids surrounding him, you know your side is going to walk away looking like a little bitch regardless, so it just makes you irrational. Abs needs so much help physically, its just sad how little else this team has to offer.

This series has been a fucking pain to watch. Game 1 was promising, game 2 a flat out pathetic disaster. But even in the promising game 1, it was clearly revealed by the 3rd period that as TB ramps up physicality, Detroit will shrink. The worst thing is, the big 4 on top have been our biggest failures, Dats/Zetterberg/Tatar/Nyquist just aren't effective. Our bottom 6 has been far better. And Helm? Fuck off dude. What happened to the Wings best defensive forward? The guys become arguably their WORST defensive forward after all the rookies.

This is against a TB team that is just a shell of themselves. Even if they pull off some stupid miracle, they're hopeless going forward.

phaneuf6
04-16-2016, 02:29 PM
So what's the verdict here on the Wings performance this season? Is it the Blashill coaching hire or is it more the fact that their big guys are getting up there in age and their young guys are a bit green still?

Kyle
04-16-2016, 06:54 PM
So what's the verdict here on the Wings performance this season? Is it the Blashill coaching hire or is it more the fact that their big guys are getting up there in age and their young guys are a bit green still?

I'd say more of the latter stuff. Blashil has been acceptable, but the young guys just haven't progressed as fast as the old guys have declined. Defensively, the team just has no roster to work with. Nyquist and Tatar are useless on their own end, and haven't even been able to match their 25 goal/50 pt paces of seasons past. Our leading scorer had 50 pts this year. To be as bad as the Wings are defensively, and also so mediocre offensively, there's just not much to hang their hats on.

There's still reason to be hopeful for the team's future, but the reality is there is CLEARLY no Zetterberg/Datsyuk ready to move the team into the next golden age the way those 2 were able to do after all the Hall of Famers retired (Obviously with Lidstrom's help). It's going to be at least 3-4 years of dragging their foot around as a team until Nyquist/Tatar are ready to score 30+ every year, Larkin progresses a lot, and they get the other half of the minor league studs into the NHL and up to speed. They need to get lucky on a few draft picks on defense or make a huge signing ASAP cause there's 0 potential to do anything without a legit #1 Dman at least as good as Kronwall was those few years after Lidstrom retired, preferably even better.

Also, the shooting quality across the team is simply pathetic. The Wings are nothing more than mere potential right now. And unfortunately, nobody got better this year, a lot of people regressed, and Larkin's surprisingly strong season (well, first half at least) wasn't even enough to balance the crazy decline Datsyuk suffered from last year. As soon as Larkin stopped scoring at a 40 goal pace (more specifically, stopped scoring at all), the team had nothing left to disguise how much worse they had gotten since last year. Mrazek had his magical 2 week stretch that further delayed the inevitable but as soon as that died down, all that was left was the pathetic product the Wings put on the ice the last 2 months of the season, and it's more likely they'll stay that bad unless Mrazek want's to go back to Vezina numbers and Larkins wants to score in bunches again. I see neither happening vs TB and I don't see them figuring things out by next season's start either.

Kyle
04-18-2016, 02:26 PM
Man, the ending to that game pissed me off. Like I said a few posts back, the bullying is making this team look like a bunch of bitches, and it was really highlighted at the end of the win. Solid game, lots of encouraging signs, but this just has all the appearance of a team too soft to make a playoff run.

Also, there's no killer instinct on the roster. Should've been a 6-0 game or even worse for TB. The Wings just can't finish the chances given. If I seem like I'm looking for reasons to bitch, that's okay, because ultimately last night was more about TB not showing up than anything great Detroit did, outside of Mrazek being stellar.

chgorman
04-18-2016, 09:26 PM
yeah, Wings are still gonna lose this series. Got a few bounces last night as well as some help from the refs, which they can't count on going forward, and they can't contain the Johnson line like that every game. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's the only game they win this series. Despite getting the W, they still made a lot of glaring mistakes and committed terrible turnovers throughout the game.

chgorman
04-25-2016, 04:35 PM
Poor note for Datsyuk to go out on (assuming he follows through). Woulda been nice if they coulda won a few more games or even a series for him on his way out.

Gonna miss watching that guy, but his head clearly wasn't in it for the past month or two. I noticed a clear difference in his play over that time.

On a somewhat related note, I'm seeing some talk about DET going after Stamkos if they can figure out a way to clear Datsyuk's salary from the books. That would be a solid replacement, to say the least. I think b_'s head would explode.

WIS
04-25-2016, 04:44 PM
Poor note for Datsyuk to go out on (assuming he follows through). Woulda been nice if they coulda won a few more games or even a series for him on his way out.

Gonna miss watching that guy, but his head clearly wasn't in it for the past month or two. I noticed a clear difference in his play over that time.

On a somewhat related note, I'm seeing some talk about DET going after Stamkos if they can figure out a way to clear Datsyuk's salary from the books. That would be a solid replacement, to say the least. I think b_'s head would explode.

:lol:

Hamsterkill
04-25-2016, 04:51 PM
On a somewhat related note, I'm seeing some talk about DET going after Stamkos if they can figure out a way to clear Datsyuk's salary from the books. That would be a solid replacement, to say the least. I think b_'s head would explode.
:lol:

I think it would be somewhat out of character for Holland, though. Holland's moves for core players usually seem lower-key. I also think the loss of Datsyuk may make it a little harder to entice free agents like Stamkos.

chgorman
04-25-2016, 08:23 PM
:lol:

I think it would be somewhat out of character for Holland, though. Holland's moves for core players usually seem lower-key. I also think the loss of Datsyuk may make it a little harder to entice free agents like Stamkos.

TBH, I highly doubt it will happen, but it's not impossible/out-of-the-question. Holland has made some splashy signings in the past, just not often, and I'm sure they could come up with plenty of reasons for him to sign there.

With Dats (likely) gone, Zetterberg and Kronwall clearly on their last legs, Stamkos would likely immediately take on a leadership role and be the focal point on offence. I could come up with lots of reasons why he might find DET enticing, but I don't feel like speculating on something that very likely won't happen anyway.

Jake
04-28-2016, 11:35 AM
Little Caesars Arena!?!?!? Not shocked, yet not impressed. It sounds like an arena for a shitty college football bowl game, not the venue for an original six team.

phaneuf6
04-28-2016, 12:18 PM
Little Caesars Arena!?!?!? Not shocked, yet not impressed. It sounds like an arena for a shitty college football bowl game, not the venue for an original six team.

Air Canada Centre, Bell Centre, TD Garden, United Center, Madison Square Garden.... outside of the Rangers, it's not like the others are much better. Corporate dollars!

Jake
04-28-2016, 03:13 PM
Yeah, I know. It's just a tough sell when the city declares bankruptcy yet manages to build the arena using some tax money while the schools are in complete shambles, crime is rampant, blight is everywhere and cops and firefighters start at 12.30 an hour. Oh, and the corporate dollars come from the same guy who owns the team and funded a lot of the arena.

I think the wings outgrew JLA a long time ago and after visiting several different arenas kind of started to hate Joe Louis Arena, so I am happy they are getting a new arena- it's just after living around Detroit and following the city I don't trust anything they do. As a taxpayer in Michigan I am used to the city fucking up everything they touch and having to bail them out and I see this as no different. I guess I don't understand why the owner didn't just build it himself.

http://detroit.curbed.com/2015/7/14/9940886/ilitch-responds-to-criticism-of-stadium

chgorman
06-18-2016, 04:46 PM
Thanks for all the great memories Dats, you highlight machine, you. Good luck back in the Motherland. Best hands and two-way player in the league. Same as I said with Lids - watching Wings games will never be the same.

The cap hit issue sucks, but he doesn't owe the team anything. Gave his heart and soul to the team for 14 yrs and 2 Cups.

WIS
06-24-2016, 08:21 PM
If anybody could do it it was Kenny H. Nice deal for you guys, in my opinion, to just move down 4 spots. Nicely done. Perhaps took advantage of that young GM.

chgorman
06-24-2016, 10:52 PM
For the relative cost, it's a great deal. I certainly wasn't holding out hope that he'd be able to move that cap hit at all.

I imagine they're gonna throw the kitchen sink at Stamkos now.

boredguy
06-24-2016, 11:50 PM
Basically dumped Datsyuk for nothing, 20 to 16 usually costs a 2nd anyways.

Dubz
06-25-2016, 09:37 AM
yaya...move along nothing to see here

Kyle
07-01-2016, 01:36 PM
The Datsyuk salary dump was great, not liking that the lions share of it went to Frans Nielson instead of Radulov, though. Detroit will be a considerably downgraded team this year. I also don't think D.Helm at 4m is necessarily a bad thing but its a really typical overly generous Kenny Holland hometown loyalty contract. Helm is not the defensive presence he was 5 years ago and his offense has gone literally nowhere over his entire career. He's still just a speedy idiot who can't finish plays but now he's not even a dominant penalty killer like he was for a few years. 4m is as much as Helm could've hoped for and a guy with his health risk shouldn't get the top end of his value.

I'm more bummed that Frans Nielson ate up a significant chunk of the free space Detroit had this offseason. Stamkos was a pipe dream and Radulov never had significant weight, but to think the Wings start next season with essentially a Datsyuk --> Nielson swap....ouch

Hamsterkill
07-01-2016, 01:50 PM
Nielsen can't quite match Datsyuk's offense, but is a decent replacement for the defense Dats was providing of late. My main issue with the signing would be the term length, considering Nielsen's age.

chgorman
07-06-2016, 02:22 PM
after some time to digest the Wings FA moves, my thoughts:

Overall, somewhat disappointed...

- no upgrades/decent additions on D which is the team's biggest need by far. Not surprising, as the FA D crop was weak at best this season, so looks like they'll have to give up some assets in a trade, which is unfortunate, but as long as they don't overpay, I'm fine with it.
- missing out on Stamkos is a huge bummer. The fact that he didn't even want to negotiate with other teams before resigning with TB absolutely astounds me, but obviously he likes it there and/or Stevie Y was able to brainwash him into thinking TB was his best option.
- Would've like liked to see the Wings get Okposo after missing out on Stammer.
- don't like the Helm contract. A shorter term at same salary or a lower salary at same term would've been fine with me, but IMO salary is too high for the term and vice versa. If he was showing signed of continued offensive development and emerging as key guy, I'd be ok with it, but he isn't, in either case. I woulda been ok with 8 mil over 2 yrs on a "prove it" contract with a promise of a raise if he takes his game to the next level, or 3-3.5 mil per yr over 3-5 yrs to continue to do just what he's been doing for the past few yrs, but even that may be generous. AA is just as fast (if not faster), has multitudes more offensive ability than Helm, and can be taught defensive play/PK, so they could've afforded to lose Helm to another team and not really miss much from him.

Liked:

- Neilson's two way game. Okposo would've brought more offence and size, but I doubt he has the two way game that Neilson does. Neilson won't put up Datsyukian offensive numbers, but is only a small step back defensively, and is money in shootouts, which the Wings definitely need help in. Term is a little long for Neilson, but that was the going rate and if they didn't give him 5+ yrs, he woulda signed elsewhere.
- Vanek at low salary for one yr. Wings aren't going anywhere this yr anyway, so they can afford the risk at the low salary, and if he can get back to even 25 goal/30 assist form, he'll be more than worth it and could end up being the steal of free agency. He could also be a huge dud, but unlike the Weiss signing a few yrs ago, it's short term at low salary, so if it doesn't work out, no harm, no foul.
- Although he kinda seems like a shell of his former self these days, i like the Ott signing for the price. He grew up loving the Wings, he'll bring some grit and physicality, sounds like he's a solid character guy in the room and will help with leadership/experience. Again, like Vanek, for the price and term, I have a hard time seeing a downside considering what he'll bring to the table.
- Getting Marchenko signed was a solid move.

All in all, somewhat disappointing, but still some positive moves. Still need to upgrade on D, but better off waiting until next yr if the trade price is going to be too high this yr. Even with a solid addition on D, I'm not sure the Wings would make any noise in the playoffs assuming they even make it in, so no sense in giving up decent assets in a trade now if some decent D help will be available in next yrs FA crop (not sure if there will or won't, but couldn't be any worse than this yrs crop).

Really have no idea what to expect out of the Wings this coming season. I'd like to see the playoff streak extended, but I doubt they'd make it past the 1st rd if they even made it in, so maybe they'd be better off missing and getting a higher pick to help build around Larkin, Mrazek, Mantha, AA, Abs, etc. What they really need most is a franchise D through the draft, which they likely won't get without a lottery pick.

two24four
07-06-2016, 03:02 PM
after some time to digest the Wings FA moves, my thoughts:

Overall, somewhat disappointed...

- no upgrades/decent additions on D which is the team's biggest need by far. Not surprising, as the FA D crop was weak at best this season, so looks like they'll have to give up some assets in a trade, which is unfortunate, but as long as they don't overpay, I'm fine with it.
- missing out on Stamkos is a huge bummer. The fact that he didn't even want to negotiate with other teams before resigning with TB absolutely astounds me, but obviously he likes it there and/or Stevie Y was able to brainwash him into thinking TB was his best option.
- Would've like liked to see the Wings get Okposo after missing out on Stammer.
- don't like the Helm contract. A shorter term at same salary or a lower salary at same term would've been fine with me, but IMO salary is too high for the term and vice versa. If he was showing signed of continued offensive development and emerging as key guy, I'd be ok with it, but he isn't, in either case. I woulda been ok with 8 mil over 2 yrs on a "prove it" contract with a promise of a raise if he takes his game to the next level, or 3-3.5 mil per yr over 3-5 yrs to continue to do just what he's been doing for the past few yrs, but even that may be generous. AA is just as fast (if not faster), has multitudes more offensive ability than Helm, and can be taught defensive play/PK, so they could've afforded to lose Helm to another team and not really miss much from him.

Liked:

- Neilson's two way game. Okposo would've brought more offence and size, but I doubt he has the two way game that Neilson does. Neilson won't put up Datsyukian offensive numbers, but is only a small step back defensively, and is money in shootouts, which the Wings definitely need help in. Term is a little long for Neilson, but that was the going rate and if they didn't give him 5+ yrs, he woulda signed elsewhere.
- Vanek at low salary for one yr. Wings aren't going anywhere this yr anyway, so they can afford the risk at the low salary, and if he can get back to even 25 goal/30 assist form, he'll be more than worth it and could end up being the steal of free agency. He could also be a huge dud, but unlike the Weiss signing a few yrs ago, it's short term at low salary, so if it doesn't work out, no harm, no foul.
- Although he kinda seems like a shell of his former self these days, i like the Ott signing for the price. He grew up loving the Wings, he'll bring some grit and physicality, sounds like he's a solid character guy in the room and will help with leadership/experience. Again, like Vanek, for the price and term, I have a hard time seeing a downside considering what he'll bring to the table.
- Getting Marchenko signed was a solid move.

All in all, somewhat disappointing, but still some positive moves. Still need to upgrade on D, but better off waiting until next yr if the trade price is going to be too high this yr. Even with a solid addition on D, I'm not sure the Wings would make any noise in the playoffs assuming they even make it in, so no sense in giving up decent assets in a trade now if some decent D help will be available in next yrs FA crop (not sure if there will or won't, but couldn't be any worse than this yrs crop).

Really have no idea what to expect out of the Wings this coming season. I'd like to see the playoff streak extended, but I doubt they'd make it past the 1st rd if they even made it in, so maybe they'd be better off missing and getting a higher pick to help build around Larkin, Mrazek, Mantha, AA, Abs, etc. What they really need most is a franchise D through the draft, which they likely won't get without a lottery pick.

Adam Foote's son Callan is rated really high for next seasons draft. But it would most likely take a pretty high pick to get him. Maybe the Foote's can get a taste of the rivalry from the other side. ha.

Doctego
07-07-2016, 06:49 AM
missing out on Stamkos is a huge bummer. The fact that he didn't even want to negotiate with other teams before resigning with TB absolutely astounds me, but obviously he likes it there and/or Stevie Y was able to brainwash him into thinking TB was his best option.

You could very easily make the argument that Tampa Bay is the best option. They still need to figure out a way to pay some more of their players, but Tampa has a really nice core.

chgorman
07-07-2016, 09:04 AM
You could very easily make the argument that Tampa Bay is the best option. They still need to figure out a way to pay some more of their players, but Tampa has a really nice core.

Fair enough. Of the teams that were be rumoured to be in the running, Tampa gives him his best chance to win now IMO, with the least amt of media attention, which may be his prime motivators for resigning, but that may not be the case a few yrs from now (the winning part) when teams like TOR, BUF and DET's young talent have had a few more yrs to develop and mature while Tampa struggles to keep their core intact under the cap. And he would've made way more $$ just about anywhere else, both in salary and endorsements.

I don't blame him for re-signing with Tampa, and I love that kind of loyalty to the team that drafted you, regardless of the circumstances. There isn't enough of that in the league these days as a whole. But I'm just surprised that he didn't even want to hear what other teams had to offer before re-signing. UFA status doesn't happen often for players of his ability/status as they're almost always locked up with a long term deal as soon as they hit UFA status. I'm just surprised that he didn't take more time to explore his options that's all. If he had've visited with TOR/DET/BUF/BOS/VAN/NYR/whomeverelse was interested in him and then decided after that resigning with Tampa was still in his best interests, then fair enough, but it sounds like he didn't even talk to any other teams before re-signing, which is what I don't understand.

chgorman
07-07-2016, 09:17 AM
Adam Foote's son Callan is rated really high for next seasons draft. But it would most likely take a pretty high pick to get him. Maybe the Foote's can get a taste of the rivalry from the other side. ha.

We don't want any Footes (Feetes? haha) on the Wings. They can suck it!

Haha, j/k. I don't know anything about him, but if he's as physical/defensive as his Dad and is better offensively, I'd be all over it, but if he's not going to bring much offence then he might not be the best option. Wings need a #1 offensive D-man who can still play in his own end. They already have a lock-down type top pair defensive d-man in DeKeyser, but aside from making a nice first pass out of his zone, he doesn't bring a lot offensively. If Foote's son is the same type of player as DeK or his Dad (i.e. great defensively but not much in the way of offence), I'm not sure he'd be the best pick for them if a more offensive d-man is available, but again, this is all assuming the Wings even get an early pick this year. If they make the playoffs again, getting a franchise d-man through the draft is going to be highly unlikely.

Hamsterkill
07-07-2016, 09:21 AM
And he would've made way more $$ just about anywhere else, both in salary and endorsements.

Not so much the case on the salary end. The tax situation in Florida means money goes a lot further there.



If he had've visited with TOR/DET/BUF/BOS/VAN/NYR/whomeverelse was interested in him and then decided after that resigning with Tampa was still in his best interests, then fair enough, but it sounds like he didn't even talk to any other teams before re-signing, which is what I don't understand.
The 8th year on the deal could only be on the table if he signed before July 1st, and thus without being able to talk with other teams. Tampa made the deal buyout-proof as well, by putting almost 90% of his contract into signing bonuses.

two24four
07-07-2016, 09:25 AM
There was reports he met with Toronto before signing back with TB.

two24four
07-07-2016, 09:31 AM
We don't want any Footes (Feetes? haha) on the Wings. They can suck it!

Haha, j/k. I don't know anything about him, but if he's as physical/defensive as his Dad and is better offensively, I'd be all over it, but if he's not going to bring much offence then he might not be the best option. Wings need a #1 offensive D-man who can still play in his own end. They already have a lock-down type top pair defensive d-man in DeKeyser, but aside from making a nice first pass out of his zone, he doesn't bring a lot offensively. If Foote's son is the same type of player as DeK or his Dad (i.e. great defensively but not much in the way of offence), I'm not sure he'd be the best pick for them if a more offensive d-man is available, but again, this is all assuming the Wings even get an early pick this year. If they make the playoffs again, getting a franchise d-man through the draft is going to be highly unlikely.

ARI drafted Chychrun 16th with DET's pick. He is the D you are talking about needing.

Doctego
07-07-2016, 09:47 AM
Looking at this objectively, I don't see any negatives for him going back to Tampa. They're ready to win now and their best players are all young. They need to be creative in handing out contracts, but Yzerman has proven to be on top of his game. All of the other teams have major question marks. I love what Toronto is doing but prospects are prospects for a reason. Same with Buffalo, to an extent. Does Detroit have a bright future? I haven't seen anyone come up to take the baton from Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I know very little about Detroit's future but they've been so good for so long that I'll trust them.

chgorman
07-07-2016, 11:03 AM
Not so much the case on the salary end. The tax situation in Florida means money goes a lot further there.

True, didn't think of that.


The 8th year on the deal could only be on the table if he signed before July 1st, and thus without being able to talk with other teams. Tampa made the deal buyout-proof as well, by putting almost 90% of his contract into signing bonuses.

Didn't know this. Makes a little more sense now.


There was reports he met with Toronto before signing back with TB.

Didn't know this either.


ARI drafted Chychrun 16th with DET's pick. He is the D you are talking about needing.

Haha, damn. I still think getting rid of Datsyuk's contract was the right move for the present, but this definitely hurts the long-term outlook a little more. Hopefully there's a similar player available to them in next year's draft.


Looking at this objectively, I don't see any negatives for him going back to Tampa. They're ready to win now and their best players are all young. They need to be creative in handing out contracts, but Yzerman has proven to be on top of his game. All of the other teams have major question marks. I love what Toronto is doing but prospects are prospects for a reason. Same with Buffalo, to an extent. Does Detroit have a bright future? I haven't seen anyone come up to take the baton from Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I know very little about Detroit's future but they've been so good for so long that I'll trust them.

Re: toronto - true, but they have at least 3 can't-miss guys in Mathews, Marner and Nylander who should all be top guys in the next 3-4 yrs, if not earlier, as well as a bunch of other solid prospects who may or may not pan out, but the organization as a whole is looking good going forward. Same with BUF with Eichel, Reinhart, etc, but it's BUF, so who really knows with them.

I wouldn't say the Wings' future is as bright as Toronto's or Buffalo's, as they don't really have any "can't miss" guys like TOR or BUF, but Larkin has already shown he has the tools to be an elite #1 NHL center and he's still only 19. He'll be the guy to take the baton from Zetts/Dats. Mantha is taking his time developing but should be an elite scorer eventually, in the next 3 or so yrs. Mrazek could be a top 10, possibly even top 5 goalie as soon as this season and going forward if he becomes more consistent. They're not prospects anymore, but if Nyquist and/or Tatar can take the next step and be more consistent, both will be bonafide 1st/2nd line scorers. Athanasiou has proven he belongs and deserves a bigger role, could easily develop into a 1st/2nd line guy with his speed and offence, as long as he works on his defensive game. Got some solid talent in the system in Tyler Bertuzzi, and Svechnikov. And have some great complimentary players on the roster in Abdelkader, Sheahan and Glendenning. None of them will light up the score board but all provide key intangibles and solid 3rd line/special teams play. Defence is the biggest concern going forward as - aside from DeKeyser - they don't have an elite talent on the roster and don't have any can't-miss/elite prospects in the system. A few guys who *could* develop into top pair/2nd pair guys, but no Subban/Weber/Doughty/Hedman/Ekblad/OEL type prospects.

So that's a lot of "ifs" and they won't contend for the cup anytime soon IMO (i.e in the next 3 yrs), but there's definitely hope that they can be serious contenders in the next 4-5 yrs or so IF they can find that elite, top pair D man they need. So yeah, maybe DET isn't Stamkos' best option, especially if he wants to win now, but I feel like any of TOR/BUF/DET would be better longer term options for him than Tampa, with the Wings having the side benefit of moving into a brand new arena after next season, which no other team can claim that I'm aware of. Then again, maybe he doesn't care about that.

two24four
07-07-2016, 02:59 PM
with the Wings having the side benefit of moving into a brand new arena after next season, which no other team can claim that I'm aware of. Then again, maybe he doesn't care about that.

The Oilers are moving into a new arena this fall. The place sounds unreal. Some are already saying it's going to be one of the best arenas in the world if not the best. Look it up if you get the chance.

chgorman
07-08-2016, 07:00 AM
Oh, right, completely forgot about EDM. As it relates to the discussion, I don't think they were considered 'in the running' for Stamkos, but yes, you're right, they are getting a new barn.

Doctego
09-21-2016, 03:41 PM
Barring injury, how much fantasy value does Jimmy Howard have? Last year, I went with Rinne and Mrazek, spot-starting Howard as my #3 when he played. It worked OK, but I think that I might be better served getting a low-end starter as my #3. Are the seasons of locking up the Detroit goalies and rolling with that over?

chgorman
09-22-2016, 09:08 PM
He'll probably get 15-25 starts (more if Mrazek gets injured or has an extended string of bad games), but don't count on much out of him. DET is gonna struggle to make the playoffs unless some of the kids really step up, so I don't see him getting many wins even when he does play. He should have decent Sv% and reasonable GAA, but don't count on much else. He's one of the better backups in the league, and if Mrazek gets injured or Jimmy gets traded, Jimmy will be a mid tier fantasy goalie, decent #2, great #3, but to answer your question, you may be better off getting a guy who will have a better chance of getting you a few more starts and better stats as your #3

chgorman
09-23-2016, 07:16 AM
Hey Doc, just read that Blashill is planning on giving Howard 25-30 starts so that Mrazek isn't overworked, for whatever that's worth to you.

Doctego
09-23-2016, 10:36 AM
Thanks. 25-30 seems to be what I would have guessed. Unfortunately, I can't really expect top quality over those starts.

chgorman
09-23-2016, 01:56 PM
Who knows, maybe he'll surprise, but like you say, don't count on it.

chgorman
10-06-2016, 10:14 PM
Sounds like Helm is going to be centering Vanek to start the season. I thought one of the knocks on Vanek was that he was pretty slow. How is he going to keep up with Helm?

Hamsterkill
10-07-2016, 07:12 AM
Unless he's really slowed down since his Buffalo days, I wouldn't call him slow. Probably not as fast as Helm or other league speedsters, but he could always keep up with Briere and Roy.

chgorman
10-07-2016, 08:22 AM
Ok, fair enough. I've just seen a few comments/articles over the past few years indicating he doesn't have very good foot speed, which would seem to me like an odd match for Helm. I was just a little surprised when I read that they'd be playing together.

That said, Helm seems to have lost a step over the past year or two as well. He's still very quick, just not quite as much break away speed as he had when he entered the league and during his first 4-5 seasons.

I guess it doesn't really matter if Vanek can keep up as long as Helm and the other guy on that line can hold onto the puck between them long enough for Vanek to get into scoring position. TBH, I don't care if he's the last one into the offensive zone on a rush, as long as he can score 20-30 goals from the 3rd line and show some modicum of proficiency in the D-zone and neutral zone. But that may be asking too much, haha.

chgorman
10-07-2016, 08:58 AM
Loving the looks of the Ott-Glendening-Miller line. Should be able to shut down most teams' top lines and maybe even contribute 25 or so goals amongst them themselves. Lots of grit/physicality/tenacity/faceoff prowess with Ott and Glennie, and although Miller doesn't bring much (or any) physicality/intimidation, he's very smart, great defensively, maybe the best penalty killer on the team amongst forwards, and can occasionally score. Gonna be fun watching these guys.

Interested to see how the rest of the lines shake out, but guess it will depend on who makes the team.

Looks like Nielson will be centering Zetts, Helm centering Vanek, and Larkin centering the 1st/2nd line (depending on how you want to define 1st/2nd, may be more of a 1A/1B situation), but haven't heard much about line combos otherwise. IMO, Tatar, Nyquist and Abdelkader should all be playing top 2 lines, but I also feel Athanasiou deserves some time on the 2nd line, and they've said that if Mantha makes the team, he will only play on the top 2 lines, so I'm not sure how that's gonna play out as that's 5 guys for 3 spots, so Mantha will likely go back to GR. Then, they also have to fit Sheahan in somewhere, and Pulkinen too if they plan on keeping him.

Maybe something like this?

Zetts-Nielson-Abs
Tatar-Larkin-AA
Vanek-Helm-Nyquist
Ott-Glennie-Miller

extras - Sheahan, Pulkinen

Not sure Helm can make up for Vanek's and Nyquist's defensive deficiencies on that line, but as long as they're matched up against other teams's 3rd/4th lines, shouldn't be a major issue.

Thoughts?

phaneuf6
10-09-2016, 07:50 AM
I'd rather Sheahan and Lorito than Ott and Miller.

chgorman
10-16-2016, 07:37 AM
Aside from the 1st period vs. Tampa - where they actually looked really good - Wings have been atrocious for 5 of 6 periods. Mrazek kept 'em in the game last night, FLA easily coulda had 8+ goals. I dunno if it's a chemistry issue, coaching, conditioning, or what, but they're hard to watch right now.

chgorman
10-27-2016, 10:37 PM
Wings had no business winning that game, but I'll take it. 6 in a row. Mrazek was stellar.

chgorman
10-30-2016, 07:02 AM
I've seen some sloppy Wings games over the past few years, but that was definitely the sloppiest. Both teams were terrible, neither deserved to win. Even the one goal that was scored was brutal. Great goaltending by both keepers (aside from the one goal), but otherwise just a terrible game all around.

chgorman
11-09-2016, 08:46 AM
Man, if the Wings could give Jimmy the run support they give Mrazek and play some D in front of Petr, they'd be laughing.

Nice to see them finally break the winless streak in PHI, even if it took a shootout to do it. Wasn't pretty, but I'll take the 2 pts.

chgorman
12-17-2016, 08:27 PM
Wings are REALLY difficult to watch right now. There isn't enough alcohol to make slide this enjoyable/watchable.

Doctego
12-26-2016, 06:08 PM
Is it safe to say that Nyquist has very little fantasy value at this point? I had high hopes for this year, but am seriously considering dropping him.

chgorman
12-27-2016, 09:12 AM
I'm really hoping he bounces back a bit in the second half, but the guy has no confidence right now. Just can't seem to score any goals and his assists have tailed off too (as I'm sure you know). He's definitely a better player than this skill-wise, but I think his struggles are all in his head, cuz it's not for lack of talent. He's probably safe to drop at this point, at least until he gets a couple goals and/or gets his head straight.

Even though they won 2 of 3 heading into the break, the whole team is playing poorly overall and I'm not sure any of them are particularly fantasy worthy right now. I'm hoping that they start improving as they start getting guys back from injury (Abdelkader, Helm, Green, etc) but until that happens, I'm not sure I'd count on any Wings providing any meaningful fantasy contribution for the next few weeks or so.

Doctego
01-16-2017, 08:08 PM
Is it safe to say that Nyquist has very little fantasy value at this point? I had high hopes for this year, but am seriously considering dropping him.

Same question, but replace Nyquist with Mrazek.

chgorman
01-17-2017, 09:15 PM
Unfortunately yes. Similar answer to Nyqvist's situation - I think its all in his head. Sounds like he's working hard in practice and doing everything he can to get back on the horse, but its just not translating to games.

It's too bad 'cuz I had high hopes and he's proven he can be a very good goalie, but Coreau is playing well and is taking great advantage of his opportunity, so until Coreau falters a bit, I don't see Mrazek having much/any fantasy value, and with Jimmy likely back in a few weeks, Mrazek may continue to lose value. I hope not, but unless he can figure it out soon, he's gonna be riding pine for a while.

Kyle
01-18-2017, 02:45 AM
I disagree. I never felt Mrazek proved enough. He's never felt like more than that typical new goalie with tons of pre-NHL success who you have high hopes for and only turns out to be average. Hes played some of his best games in the playoffs but that's a sample size of about 5 games and really amounts to nothing.

He hasn't yet had a season as good as the 3 Howard had in 9-10, 11-12, and 12-13. I'll take Howard in the postseason as well, that run he had vs Anaheim and then taking Chicago to 7 games as an 8th seed was pretty brilliant. I also don't buy that Howard had stronger teams as he had his best 30-40 game stretches during major injury streaks where half the team was out.

And after years of supposed development into the stud he was supposed to become, I'll still take an (almost) 33 year old Howard today. Mrazek has 8 more games played than Howard and 44 more goals allowed. Wtf?

Mrazek is not going to be the franchise goalie of this rebuild and if they insist on trying to force that role out of him, they'll be committing to mediocrity and constant bipolar swings in goalie quality.

PS - If the issue is just "he gets in his own head" but its worth some patience because the talent and potential is all there, then its been a consistent issue for his entire career and the response might simply be that he will always eventually get in his own head.

My biggest issue with Mrazek is his volatility. His 10 best games vs his 10 worst any season are just horrifying to look at. I'll take the same mediocre statline from a more consistently mediocre goalie any day over one who might be the best in the world one day or the worst in the world the next. There's just nothing the players in front can build on when they don't know if their goalie is going to be a super human that day or let in weak lobs from center ice.

chgorman
01-19-2017, 07:59 AM
I disagree with '(Mrazek) is not going to be the franchise goalie of this rebuild' at this point, as I still think he has the tools to be "the guy" if he can figure out his recent struggles and be more consistently good going forward, but you could be right, I'm getting close to changing my tune.

For the record, I never said he's proven he IS a top goalie, all I said was that he's proven he CAN be a very good goalie, albeit inconsistently. He has the tools. I agree that he hasn't matched any of Howard's best seasons, and obviously this season has been a huge struggle for him, but he's also had a few 2-3 month stretches over his relatively short career where he's been absolutely dynamite, and as you say, has had some very good playoff performances as well, which gives me hope that all is not lost with him. I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him just yet. He's still young, still maturing, and typically (not always, but typically) goalies take the longest of any position to really mature and hit their prime. He's still only 24 (soon to be 25) and already has a couple NHL seasons under his belt. If I remember correctly, Jimmy didn't get regular starts in the NHL until he was at least 25 or 26, so IMO Mrazek is already ahead of where Jimmy was at the same age.

I'm hopeful for a turnaround from him in the 2nd half of the season and going forward. Certainly not counting on it, but hopeful.

But for fantasy purposes, I think we can both agree that he's droppable. Had a nice game in relief of Coreau last night, got the win after Coreau let in 3 early to put the Wings down 3-0 early, so hopefully this is the start of his turnaround, but until he puts forth a solid, consistent few weeks in a row, I probably wouldn't trust him for fantasy purposes.

edit: and to clarify, he's probably droppable in 1 yr leagues, but i'd hold on a little longer in a longer-term deep keeper league to see if he can work himself out of this funk before dumping him.

Doctego
01-19-2017, 06:32 PM
Thanks, guys. I never thought that the Wings' goalie situation would be avoidable like the Dallas group. I ended up dropping him for Anderson, who should be back somewhat soon. I needed something more stable with Rinne being my only long-term starter. My others were Budaj and Mrazek.

Kyle
01-20-2017, 10:50 AM
Right on Chg. I was less disagreeing with you specifically (Although I clearly implied I did which is my bad) and moreso just re-igniting the discussion around Mrazek after a long break from this thread. I probably could've left out "I disagree" at the start of my post and gone from there. I feel for the most part my thoughts/fears regarding Mrazek (and unfortunately Nyquist, specifically regarding not jumping the gun on him being a true pure goal scorer) have been validated and Detroit seems to have a lot less to look forward to than we convinced ourselves from 2012-2015. The touted prospect pool isn't materializing into anything relevant and Detroit might be off the rails from its impressive rebuild and on track towards a decade of mediocrity.

This is all extremely pessimistic, but hey, I'm a realist at whatever the cost, even if it makes me look depressingly negative or blindly positive as us Wings fans have been so often accused of around here. :lol: It was going good for a long time so i probably seemed obnoxiously optimistic (The Wings essentially were the NHL's Patriots so it was hard to not be obnoxious about their success) but I'm calling it like it is now: The Wings suck and need a dramatic spark. I'm officially going as far as to say Kenny Holland's star has burnt out entirely and its now very much a debate if Detroit has competent management for today's NHL. I know Kenny H isn't going anywhere, but man his approach sure needs to change a bit.

Kyle
01-20-2017, 10:57 AM
Saddest thing is, Vanek has exceeded every and any earthly projections a sane human being could've had for his production this year, and everyone else just can't bother to join in.

chgorman
01-31-2017, 10:23 PM
What a gawdawful game. Wings need to start tanking, if they haven't already.

Kyle
01-31-2017, 11:32 PM
I gotta be honest man, I checked out on this season and even wasting my time on these games a few weeks ago.

Might make me sound like a fairweather fan, but a combination of this pathetic product and having far less free time in my life than ever has me simply moving on from the Red Wings for a while, knowing the dramatic type of rebuild they're about to enter for a long time. Tanking is definitely the best bet this year, I hate the practice but fuck, if Chicago, Pittsburgh, Edmenton get forgiven I'm happy to watch the Wings do the same.

The only issue? The East is so shockingly tight this year, that the Wings are only 7 pts out of the playoffs at 16th place. There's only 9 pts between 6th and 16th right now so you know the mantra around the room and during practices is to ignore what's happened so far and focus on the very realistic playoff spot. Even though we both agree the team blows and won't get it, you have to imagine they're going to be trying a hell of a lot harder to get it than a team tanking.

chgorman
02-01-2017, 01:53 PM
I gotta be honest man, I checked out on this season and even wasting my time on these games a few weeks ago.

Might make me sound like a fairweather fan, but a combination of this pathetic product and having far less free time in my life than ever has me simply moving on from the Red Wings for a while, knowing the dramatic type of rebuild they're about to enter for a long time. Tanking is definitely the best bet this year, I hate the practice but fuck, if Chicago, Pittsburgh, Edmenton get forgiven I'm happy to watch the Wings do the same.


Agreed, I'm not a fan of tanking either, but these days, very few teams seem to be able to make it to the upper echelon of the league without tanking for at least a year or two in order to get early 1st round picks, so it seems to be a necessary evil. I'm pretty sure I've said in the past that I would never advocate tanking, but that was when the Wings were decent and seemed to always be able to retool on the fly and avoid a full rebuild. I've been hopeful for the past few years that they could continue with the retool/reload (vs. rebuild) strategy, but after seeing how terrible they've been playing for the past 2-3 months (a few decent games here and there aside), i don't think a reload/retool is gonna cut it. It clearly isn't working this season, for sure, so a full-on rebuild seems to be the only option if they want to get back to elite status.

As far as I'm concerned, they need to hold on to Larkin, Mantha, Abdelkader, Athanasiou, Glendenning, maybe Helm, keep DeKeyser, Ouellet, maybe Sproul and Marchenko, keep Mrazek and Coreau, and either trade everyone else for picks/prospects/good young NHL'ers, or let them walk as FA's, or put them on waivers (if financially feasible to do so) in order to open up some roster space for some younger guys and open up some cap space to pounce on some of the better young FA's in the coming years. And then of course draft a legit first pair offensive dman as well as some top flight offensive forwards and some solid supporting pieces. Obviously easier said than done, but if they can get some extra picks in return for current roster players that won't be part of the rebuild, it'll be somewhat easier.

Unfortunately, I don't think it'll ever happen, as Kenny H has already reiterated recently that they're sticking with the retool/reload philosophy over a rebuild strategy, which to me is the wrong way to go given the current state of the league/cap.


The only issue? The East is so shockingly tight this year, that the Wings are only 7 pts out of the playoffs at 16th place. There's only 9 pts between 6th and 16th right now so you know the mantra around the room and during practices is to ignore what's happened so far and focus on the very realistic playoff spot. Even though we both agree the team blows and won't get it, you have to imagine they're going to be trying a hell of a lot harder to get it than a team tanking.

I don't disagree, but it pisses me off, especially with how bad they're playing. Even if they do make the playoffs, they're gonna get embarrassed, will be swept in the 1st round, will probably lose every game by 3+ goals, and will get stuck with a 15th-20th overall pick. I'm sure Illitch probably wants to keep the streak going and is probably in Holland's ear all the time about it, while Blashill wants to keep his job, so I doubt any of those three will allow a true 'tank' to happen over the next couple seasons, even though that would be the best thing for the team long-term.

That said, with how bad they've been playing, especially lately, maybe they ARE tanking and are just doing a good job disguising it to the media/fans, haha. Sure looks like they're tanking on the ice, even if nobody in the org is willing to admit it.

I really hope they don't go on some crazy run over the next month to get into playoff contention and then Kenny decides to be a buyer instead of a seller at the deadline, as that would be the worst possible thing for the team long-term.

two24four
02-01-2017, 02:38 PM
This isn't the season to tank for 1st. Patrick and Hischier are good players but not like top picks in years past. This is a weak draft...Kind of feel for the Avs, they are soooo bad this year but if they land the 1st pick it wont be a McDavid, Matthews, Laine, Eichel, Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby etc....

Dubz
02-02-2017, 07:16 PM
This isn't the season to tank for 1st. Patrick and Hischier are good players but not like top picks in years past. This is a weak draft...Kind of feel for the Avs, they are soooo bad this year but if they land the 1st pick it wont be a McDavid, Matthews, Laine, Eichel, Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby etc....

The Avs best chance is to pick up a few young guns from the Leafs for Duchene ;):p

Kyle
02-11-2017, 11:26 AM
RIP To a great man, a modern sports legend, and arguably one of the 3-5 people most responsible for the few good things Detroit as a city has had to be proud of for decades. That's no exaggeration, Mike Ilitch is as much (if not more) of a hero to non-sports fans in Detroit as he is to sports fans.

Class from top to bottom and it seeped through every crack in the Red Wings organization. His personality is why the Wings have been viewed as class personified for multiple decades now. He will certainly be dearly missed.

On a lighter note, I wish he owned a better quality Pizza chain....As much as I'd like to honor him with a slice, I'll be right behind him if I nuke my system with Little Ceasars. :lol:

Doctego
02-11-2017, 11:41 AM
I would have liked to have seen him get to win a World Series title, too. Isn't that name going to be plastered on the new arena?

Kyle
02-11-2017, 12:35 PM
Yeah, I've never been close to a baseball guy so I felt very under-qualified to comment on his Tigers success. For the most part, the perception hasn't seemed too great on the team. That said, I also can remember a lot of seasons filled with promise that just ended poorly. Would have been great to say he brought Detroit championships in two different sports.

I believe it will be. It is the Little Caesars Arena, after all. I imagine they'll be even more inclined to honor him all over the arena after his passing.

Kyle
02-13-2017, 10:48 AM
Nyquist is a total idiot.

chgorman
02-13-2017, 11:21 AM
The fact that he's trying to say it was an accident is the biggest joke.

Kyle
02-13-2017, 12:02 PM
Yeah, and its one thing to do that when you're averaging just shy of 30 goals a year. Then you become a project. But to do it after 24 goals in his last 138 games? Now he's a liability.

Kyle
02-21-2017, 08:47 PM
gdi, if the Wings win again tonight and make it three in a row, I'll be fucking annoyed. :lol:

Kyle
03-22-2017, 05:22 AM
Small 20 game sample size, but this has really been a great year for Howard.

The Wings need to shop him somewhere desperate ASAP in the offseason because this might be the last year that any team can convince themselves Howard can help them make a run. He probably can't due to his health and inconsistency, but if he ends the year below 2.00 and above .930, its hard to ignore entirely.

Unfortunately, he's also the reason Detroit isn't on pace to be eligible for the lottery this year, so I hope he's not back next year.

Dubz
03-22-2017, 01:05 PM
I went to "farewell to the Joe fan appreciation day" yesterday, It was great. I was the only one wearing Blue and White (Winter Classic Killer #93 jersey) in a sea of red. Made for an interesting day to say the least. Would love to catch the Leafs/Wings on April 1st there but the scalpers are all over this one, unfortunately (although it would still be alot cheaper than going to the hanger lol)

Kyle
03-22-2017, 03:51 PM
Haha, yeah, I bet its still way cheaper. No surprise they jumped on this game, Detroit fans have so little in the way of marquee matchups anymore that an old rival and most recent ex-coach is the best it gets.

Dubz
03-23-2017, 10:51 AM
I good a few odd glares when i said i found two good photos to take: Shanny and Babs :lol: I was looking around at TIX and you can go see the Devils at the hanger for $80 but it $200 for nosebleeds when Crosby is in the house. They are taking advantage of the Leaf fans. Even the ticket guy at the Joe told me alot of people come from Toronto because its cheaper to watch a fkn game with travel and motel than to go to the ACC (who just recently decided to raise ticket prices https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/maple-leafs-offer-ridiculous-reason-for-season-ticket-price-hike-201723935.html) I dont think it has much to do with the Wings lol.

Kyle
04-04-2017, 01:12 PM
Well, I guess now I know the only thing more annoying than a team visibly tanking: a team clearly trying their hardest when they have every reason in the world to let off the gas a bit and at least give themselves a chance at the lottery. I know Blashil wants to keep his job but fuck off already. :lol:

phaneuf6
04-12-2017, 10:34 AM
Was at the Joe Saturday for the second last game there - what an atmosphere. Playoff-like, despite the obvious non-playoff status of the team.

Wings management hates their goaltending but will stick it out next year and let them both battle for the number one spot. Sheahan will not be bought out, despite his struggles.

chgorman
06-13-2017, 09:43 PM
Happy to see the Griffs take the Calder Cup. Gives a little bit more hope for the future.

Kyle
06-16-2017, 09:24 AM
Happy to see the Griffs take the Calder Cup. Gives a little bit more hope for the future.

It doesn't hurt, that's for sure. But we've been down this road as Wings fan. Had a top 3 prospect pool that over the span of 4 years now has amounted to virtually nothing. Trying to stay positive for Sproul and Oullet, Athanasiou and Manthra are bordering very productive, but overall there hasn't been any sort of star power emerging that was supposed to keep the Wings afloat. Because of that I take it with a grain of salt when the Griffs win or if prospects do really well at lower levels.

phaneuf6
06-16-2017, 08:58 PM
Bertuzzi and Lorito should both be full-time, productive Red Wings next year.

Kyle
06-17-2017, 12:19 AM
Definitely excited about Bertuzzi. Haven't learned much about Lorito yet.

chgorman
06-19-2017, 07:35 PM
Wow, Wings exposing Mrazek to Vegas, citing performance and attitude concerns. I know his performance hasn't been up to par the past year and a half, but I wasn't aware of any attitude issues and am still not sure that protecting Howard over Mrazek is the right move regardless of any attitude issues, given the age difference and Jimmy's contract.

Now, if Vegas doesn't take him, not only is he not going to want to play for the wings now that he's been publicly out-ed by the organization, but he'll be damaged goods on the trade market and have poor trade value.

I had high hopes for this guy and believed he was gonna be their #1 for a long time, so this is pretty disappointing for me, regardless of how it ends up.

Kyle
06-19-2017, 08:16 PM
Wow, Wings exposing Mrazek to Vegas, citing performance and attitude concerns. I know his performance hasn't been up to par the past year and a half, but I wasn't aware of any attitude issues and am still not sure that protecting Howard over Mrazek is the right move regardless of any attitude issues, given the age difference and Jimmy's contract.

Now, if Vegas doesn't take him, not only is he not going to want to play for the wings now that he's been publicly out-ed by the organization, but he'll be damaged goods on the trade market and have poor trade value.

I had high hopes for this guy and believed he was gonna be their #1 for a long time, so this is pretty disappointing for me, regardless of how it ends up.


Wow. This says nothing positive about the Wings or the direction the franchise is heading in, so in general I'm not happy to hear this. I am happy, though, that my extreme minority held opinion that I've constantly repeated since Mrazek's career started has been vindicated by this move. I've always said he has never approached the quality of play that Howard gave the Wings for 4 years when he carried them into the playoffs 2 of those years(Remember when EVERYONE was injured? Howard was the hero). Beyond that, I said even while he was on the Wings, and even when the numbers didn't support it, I never felt like he was ever outplaying Howard. I've repeated this for years while people destroyed Howard after every so-so game and praised Mrazek for every equally so-so game.

I'm a Howard guy and its gotten me laughed out of many discussions in various Wings communities from the vast majority who was eager to see Mrazek replace him. I still to this moment do not understand why anyone ever thought Mrazek was supposed to be as good as Howard was in 2010, 2012, or 2013. I don't get why we build up romantic narratives and imagine that they've already played out. Mrazek was never a good NHL goalie, just a guy who was supposed to be one, so we decided to say "Fuck off and good riddance" to the established stud at goalie the Wings already had, who to this day is still the better NHL goalie when healthy.

I've never had anything against Mrazek. I simply hate when people try to push a guy ahead of another because of what they're supposed to be before their pro careers even start. Mrazek is the minor league stud and Howard is the nobody. And yet Mrazek is the major league dud and Howard is the guy who finished top 10 in Vezina 2 of his first 4 years and 2nd in Calder voting. Who was the real sensation?

Hopefully he is picked up, and the Wings can line up a true replacement next time for Howard, at a time that actually makes sense, not 4-5 years sooner than they should've been looking to replace him.

PS - What trade value? lol Mrazek already shot that on his own

phaneuf6
06-19-2017, 08:17 PM
Wow, Wings exposing Mrazek to Vegas, citing performance and attitude concerns. I know his performance hasn't been up to par the past year and a half, but I wasn't aware of any attitude issues and am still not sure that protecting Howard over Mrazek is the right move regardless of any attitude issues, given the age difference and Jimmy's contract.

Now, if Vegas doesn't take him, not only is he not going to want to play for the wings now that he's been publicly out-ed by the organization, but he'll be damaged goods on the trade market and have poor trade value.

I had high hopes for this guy and believed he was gonna be their #1 for a long time, so this is pretty disappointing for me, regardless of how it ends up.

Ken Holland hates him. I doubt he would've been a Red Wing after next season anyways.

Kyle
06-19-2017, 10:08 PM
Ken Holland hates him. I doubt he would've been a Red Wing after next season anyways.

Any chance you can elaborate on this? I think Chg would even agree, its always felt like Kenny H and the organization absolutely adored Mrazek and were always as anxious as possible to see him take the reigns. They protected him with a lot of easier matchups his first few years and really tried to give him every chance possible to keep extended start streaks going until he'd force them to bench him. It really always felt like the opposite of what you said, like Kenny H was Mrazek's biggest fan.

Dubz
06-20-2017, 10:26 AM
I think its a bad move and Vegas will pick him up.

two24four
06-20-2017, 12:50 PM
I think its a bad move and Vegas will pick him up.

It sounds like it's pretty much a done deal that they are taking Fleury. If so the other goalie I would take if I'm them is Dell from SJ. Unless they have a deal to leave him alone.

Dubz
06-20-2017, 01:17 PM
Theres more goalies than they can roster so who knows. He is on a short contract so i dont see why they wouldnt try to flip him at least. Raanta is another guy on a cheap short deal along with Montoya. Then you have guys like Dell and Ullmark who are younger and under their entry levels still. I guess the money from Mrazek might be hard to flip and they would have 10 million tied up in goalies. You're probably right 24

Then what will the wings do? Not really worth a buy out? Guess they will just suck it up for the year or drop him for a 7th rounder? How the mighty have fallen. I'll bet this is Zetts last year as well.

Hamsterkill
06-20-2017, 04:50 PM
It sounds like it's pretty much a done deal that they are taking Fleury. If so the other goalie I would take if I'm them is Dell from SJ. Unless they have a deal to leave him alone.

Vegas has to take 3 goalies and I could actually see them take up to 5 considering some of the teams' exposure lists. The prospect goalies could be fairly easy to flip if they want.

phaneuf6
06-21-2017, 09:37 AM
Any chance you can elaborate on this? I think Chg would even agree, its always felt like Kenny H and the organization absolutely adored Mrazek and were always as anxious as possible to see him take the reigns. They protected him with a lot of easier matchups his first few years and really tried to give him every chance possible to keep extended start streaks going until he'd force them to bench him. It really always felt like the opposite of what you said, like Kenny H was Mrazek's biggest fan.

I can't really elaborate much beyond that... I met with KH at the end of the season (right before the Joe closed) and he hates both his goalies but is resigned to going with them through next season (i.e. stuck with them).

Kyle
06-21-2017, 08:52 PM
That makes more sense. It definitely felt like he hated Howard the last few years. I can understand why, even though he didn't like Mrazek, he gave him every opportunity to take it from Howard, which was probably a contract he regretted. Makes sense.

Pretty cool that you met him. Seems like a really nice guy.

two24four
06-24-2017, 10:35 AM
Nice pick in round 3 taking Zach Gallant from the Petes. Living in Ptbo I've seen him lots. He's a big kid who's more of a D first centre. He's one of the better faceoff guys in the OHL. He hits like a truck and not afraid to drop the gloves when needed. I don't think he will be a top 6 guy in the NHL but he could be a solid bottom 6 guy. Really good on the PK. He will be the Petes top centre this upcoming season.

He's not as big, but Brian Boyle comes to mind when comparing him to someone.

Gallant flew up the draft rankings this season. I don't even think he was ranked going into the season.

Dubz
06-24-2017, 01:22 PM
I think they will be happy with the first pick. Read some good stuff about him.

chgorman
06-25-2017, 06:44 AM
I think they will be happy with the first pick. Read some good stuff about him.

Seems like good character guy with his head on straight, who can score, has great size. Him and Mantha on a line together could be pretty intimidating. I like the pick but time will tell.

Was hoping one of the top two D were going to fall to them but that clearly wasn't going to happen.

two24four
06-25-2017, 11:26 AM
They must have really scouted the Petes as they also took Fraser. He's a tough, tough kid.

chgorman
06-25-2017, 08:41 PM
Good. I know toughness isn't as important as it used to be, especially on an individual basis, but the Wings have been too small and too easy to play against for far too long.

Between the guys they drafted this year, Ty Bertuzzi, Givani Smith and a few other guys currently on the team who are willing to rough it up a bit more, I think they're moving in a positive direction in that regard.

Still gonna be 3-5 years before they're back in the playoffs I think, definitely still need to find a legit top pair dman who can put up points, as well as produce more offence ad a team in general, but they've got some decent building blocks and being harder to play against is a good first step.

chgorman
06-26-2017, 06:00 AM
Wings getting some pretty terrible draft grades from various media sources. I don't follow prospects close enough anymore to fairly judge, but I hope they're wrong. Many are saying they had the worst draft in the league.

two24four
06-26-2017, 09:39 AM
They took the two Petes higher than I thought they would go. I thought Gallant would go around the 5th round. Fraser I thought 7th if at all.

chgorman
06-26-2017, 12:23 PM
yeah, sounds like they reached on a number of their picks and seemingly prioritized size and character over actual skill.

I was pretty excited to see what they would do in this draft with a top 10 pick and a bunch of picks overall, but can't say I'm particularly impressed overall at this point.

Kyle
06-26-2017, 09:45 PM
Wow, you guys seem to like the draft a lot more than me. I'm very neutral. I wanted defense. I'm not upset with the picks, but I'm upset they didn't grab a good defender. I give it a B- tops. I'm really annoyed that the team screwed their draft position this year with that fucking pointless late push. Combined with the iffy draft, it just feels like the better position could've made a huge difference in the team deciding to reach on a few picks. 5 spots can change a strategy dramatically.

I defer to you guys on prospects, especially 24 who has the most impressive Jr Hockey knowledge of anybody I know. I really can't follow prospects in any sport I watch. I'm basically a full time NFL, NHL, NBA, Spanish Soccer, English Soccer, combat sport fanatic. I just have no time to follow any lower levels of any of the sports I watch (Really not even NCAA football/basketball) but I have a ton of respect for the opinions of guys who do put in that time to specific sports and knowing them inside out. To that end I'm definitely at least a bit lifted by some of the positive impressions you guys have of those early picks, but for me I can't just lie and act excited.

As with everything surrounding this team the last few years, I approach this draft with a slightly skeptic wait-and-see approach.

Kyle
06-26-2017, 09:47 PM
yeah, sounds like they reached on a number of their picks and seemingly prioritized size and character over actual skill.

I was pretty excited to see what they would do in this draft with a top 10 pick and a bunch of picks overall, but can't say I'm particularly impressed overall at this point.

Honestly, most of what I read gave them what I thought to be an overly generous B grade, but those websites tended to give just about every team a B or higher except a small handful, so I guess that doesn't mean much. FWIW I googled "2017 NHL draft grades" and just clicked the first 3-4 results. At that time, none of them were negative on the Wings, and two of them were actually being overly generous.

Overall, Wings seem to be graded on the lower-middle end of the pack, for sure. But I've certainly not read/heard that they had the worst or even among the worst drafts. Just, to me, totally mediocre.

Which really just sums up the Wings drafting for God knows how long. Its just been very mediocre for a long time now. It really felt like Kenny H had hit another lottery batch when it felt like Manthra, Nyquist, Tatar, Athanasiou, Larkin, etc. would be stars at various points, but now the picture is much more clear. The Wings have lots of talent but no stars, and the defensive side has been neglected to the point where the team is almost certainly one of the 5 worst defensive squads in the NHL next year.

phaneuf6
06-26-2017, 10:06 PM
Which really just sums up the Wings drafting for God knows how long. Its just been very mediocre for a long time now. It really felt like Kenny H had hit another lottery batch when it felt like Manthra, Nyquist, Tatar, Athanasiou, Larkin, etc. would be stars at various points, but now the picture is much more clear. The Wings have lots of talent but no stars, and the defensive side has been neglected to the point where the team is almost certainly one of the 5 worst defensive squads in the NHL next year.

The same can be said for every team that has had sustained success in the last 10 years. You really need to get lucky to get those stud talents late in the draft, and if your team has success, that's exactly where you're picking.

Part of what frustrates me with a lot of the teams that have been successful or are going to be in the next five years (Leafs, Oilers, come to mind), is that they got to be great teams as a result of years of being fucking terrible. Chicago sucked for years, got to grab Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Crawford, Keith... even then, they missed on guys like Barker. Pittsburgh sucked and got Fleury, Malkin, Crosby. I don't need to remind you what the Oilers have been able to draft (although missing a few times it seems), and the Leafs hit the jackpot with Matthews, fast forwarding their rebuild by at least 2-3 years. So basically, as the Red Wings fall apart and rise in the draft order, that stud player to turn things around is almost bound to come around.

If I look at the Wings draft history, considering where they have picked every year, I think they've done pretty well to be honest.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html

two24four
06-27-2017, 01:31 PM
Wow, you guys seem to like the draft a lot more than me. I'm very neutral. I wanted defense. I'm not upset with the picks, but I'm upset they didn't grab a good defender. I give it a B- tops. I'm really annoyed that the team screwed their draft position this year with that fucking pointless late push. Combined with the iffy draft, it just feels like the better position could've made a huge difference in the team deciding to reach on a few picks. 5 spots can change a strategy dramatically.

I defer to you guys on prospects, especially 24 who has the most impressive Jr Hockey knowledge of anybody I know. I really can't follow prospects in any sport I watch. I'm basically a full time NFL, NHL, NBA, Spanish Soccer, English Soccer, combat sport fanatic. I just have no time to follow any lower levels of any of the sports I watch (Really not even NCAA football/basketball) but I have a ton of respect for the opinions of guys who do put in that time to specific sports and knowing them inside out. To that end I'm definitely at least a bit lifted by some of the positive impressions you guys have of those early picks, but for me I can't just lie and act excited.

As with everything surrounding this team the last few years, I approach this draft with a slightly skeptic wait-and-see approach.

I live in a Jr hockey town where the team has a rich history. First ever hockey game I went to was a Petes OHL game. There are people who know way more about Jr hockey than me. Some Jr hockey fans don't follow the NHL at all. For me it's MLB, NHL, NFL, NLL/MSL/MLL (Lacrosse) Jr hockey. I use to watch NCAA football but I haven't watched a full game in a long time. I already watch football all day Sunday's, I can't spend all Saturday anymore doing the same, haha. I got tired of the UFC a few years ago.

Kyle
06-27-2017, 08:58 PM
The same can be said for every team that has had sustained success in the last 10 years. You really need to get lucky to get those stud talents late in the draft, and if your team has success, that's exactly where you're picking.

Part of what frustrates me with a lot of the teams that have been successful or are going to be in the next five years (Leafs, Oilers, come to mind), is that they got to be great teams as a result of years of being fucking terrible. Chicago sucked for years, got to grab Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Crawford, Keith... even then, they missed on guys like Barker. Pittsburgh sucked and got Fleury, Malkin, Crosby. I don't need to remind you what the Oilers have been able to draft (although missing a few times it seems), and the Leafs hit the jackpot with Matthews, fast forwarding their rebuild by at least 2-3 years. So basically, as the Red Wings fall apart and rise in the draft order, that stud player to turn things around is almost bound to come around.

If I look at the Wings draft history, considering where they have picked every year, I think they've done pretty well to be honest.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html

Great post. I'm always going on about how much the Hawks/Pens/Etc. had to suck for so long in order to build their near-dynasties. Its clearly very difficult to do it any other way in today's NHL and as you pointed out, the only way around it is getting lucky with just 1 first rounder like Matthews. Hopefully the Wings will find their guy. It seemed like Larkin but last year changed that a lot.

Kyle
06-27-2017, 09:00 PM
I live in a Jr hockey town where the team has a rich history. First ever hockey game I went to was a Petes OHL game. There are people who know way more about Jr hockey than me. Some Jr hockey fans don't follow the NHL at all. For me it's MLB, NHL, NFL, NLL/MSL/MLL (Lacrosse) Jr hockey. I use to watch NCAA football but I haven't watched a full game in a long time. I already watch football all day Sunday's, I can't spend all Saturday anymore doing the same, haha. I got tired of the UFC a few years ago.

Right on. Same reason as me for ditching NCAA football, and if it wasn't for Conner I'd probably be done with the UFC too. I can def see a lot of Jr Hockey fans preferring those big scoring games and youngsters flying all over the place, kind of like the way many NCAA football fans hate the NFL because its slower and lower scoring.

Dubz
07-01-2017, 12:23 PM
When i visited the Joe most fans were concerned with how soft the Wings players are. They are used to players of the past that were willing to die for the game. I'd make a list but it would be too long. They have changed the team and now have to try to inject that rough edge back into the lineup. Its gonna be a bumpy ride i think.